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I'm thinking of wrecking threads everywhere until this shit gets fixed or I get banned, should I?

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Author Topic: US Men's National Team Soccer Thread! (lower division thread)  (Read 448071 times)

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Offline sunny_cat

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It's an interesting debate.  on the one hand, a stronger MLS will assuredly help soccer in America, long term.  But, there's no question that it's going to be generations (if ever) before the MLS is even remotely close to being among the world's best leagues.       

Give it 25 years and the MLS will be considered a top 5 league in the world.

So who would be your "first league out" if the MLS supplanted one. I'm assuming La Liga, EPL, Ligue 1, Bundesliga and Serie A are your top 5?

Regardless of one great team (PSG), this is a stupid question. It's Ligue 1.

Not really a stupid question considering any league after EPL, Bundesliga and La Liga is kind of up in the air. Any list i've seen is all over the place. Eredivisie is another good one, and there a couple of South American leagues that are very good as well.

This one even has the Ukranian league in the top 5.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1922780-statistically-ranking-the-worlds-top-10-football-leagues

You have a point, but come on man. I'm not clicking a bleacher report link.

Offline scottwildcat

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we will never have the history of Serie A but the MLS if ran correctly will pass them too.


why?

Why what?


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why will the MLS, if run correctly, pass them too? 

why do you assume this?  serious question.  Not saying you're wrong, necessarily.  Just curious.   

well first you just have to look at where the MLS started and where it is now. then look at where Serie A was when the MLS started and where it is now. In the MLS you have a league that is in its infancy and in a nation where soccer used to not even be thought of and is consistently on the rise. Soccer fans in America are the youngest of any sport so the money and viewership behind the sport is only going to continue to grow.

At the business end of it as long as for the next 10-15 years the MLS continues to promote in game atmosphere and competitive balance it will continue to get exponentially better TV deals and sponsorship and then at that point they can turn the league loose allow these owners to spend how much they want and on what ever players they want and turn it into a league that can financially compete for elite players. Once the financial incentive for players to play in Europe is diminished getting the opportunity to play in America in a league that at that point will be of a much higher quality than it even is now will become very desirable.

Italy's professional league has not been of extreme quality for years, their native players are getting racially abused on the regular, and a lot of their teams seem to be in financial distress. They do not have a super power team on the European stage and haven't for a while and there does not seem to be any desire from elite players to leave their league to go there or elite managers to go there anymore. While there is no real comparing the two leagues as is right now, one league is on a very bullish path and the other is hardly even a shadow of itself from yesteryear.

Offline sunny_cat

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Yeah, a huge issue that gets overlooked way too often is the fact that MLS had its first season in 1996. Lots of European leagues started in the 1800s.

Offline scottwildcat

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Yeah, a huge issue that gets overlooked way too often is the fact that MLS had its first season in 1996. Lots of European leagues started in the 1800s.

not even 20 years old and we are already a better league than many countries that are soccer first. Just think what is going to happen in the next 20.

Offline sunny_cat

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Yeah, a huge issue that gets overlooked way too often is the fact that MLS had its first season in 1996. Lots of European leagues started in the 1800s.

not even 20 years old and we are already a better league than many countries that are soccer first. Just think what is going to happen in the next 20.

Once all the clubs with dog crap stadiums (NE, DC, even Columbus) get new nice ones, that'll be huge. Yes, that will happen. It may be a very long time though. Still waiting on the Sounders to get their own 35k seat SSS.

Offline j-von

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Yeah, a huge issue that gets overlooked way too often is the fact that MLS had its first season in 1996. Lots of European leagues started in the 1800s.

not even 20 years old and we are already a better league than many countries that are soccer first. Just think what is going to happen in the next 20.

Once all the clubs with dog crap stadiums (NE, DC, even Columbus) get new nice ones, that'll be huge. Yes, that will happen. It may be a very long time though. Still waiting on the Sounders to get their own 35k seat SSS.

Has anything been announced recently?  I went to look it up and found this...

http://soundersnation.com/2014/03/12/soccer-specific-stadium-seattle/

I'd have to make a trip up there to see it if ever happens.

Offline sunny_cat

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Yeah, a huge issue that gets overlooked way too often is the fact that MLS had its first season in 1996. Lots of European leagues started in the 1800s.

not even 20 years old and we are already a better league than many countries that are soccer first. Just think what is going to happen in the next 20.

Once all the clubs with dog crap stadiums (NE, DC, even Columbus) get new nice ones, that'll be huge. Yes, that will happen. It may be a very long time though. Still waiting on the Sounders to get their own 35k seat SSS.

Has anything been announced recently?  I went to look it up and found this...

http://soundersnation.com/2014/03/12/soccer-specific-stadium-seattle/

I'd have to make a trip up there to see it if ever happens.

Tbh, I have never heard anything about one actually happening.

Offline scottwildcat

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CR7 out of the final friendly before Brazil. There is a crazy Ghanian witch doctor claiming responsibility for him being hurt.


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Offline sunny_cat

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CR7 out of the final friendly before Brazil. There is a crazy Ghanian witch doctor claiming responsibility for him being hurt.


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:love:


Offline scottwildcat

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Poor elephant probably got gassed after that. :frown:


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Offline sunny_cat

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Offline sunny_cat

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Poor elephant probably got gassed after that. :frown:


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Lol

Offline scottwildcat

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_i3Lcjli84&feature=youtu.be

You guys.

Beats By Dre: good at commercials


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Offline sunny_cat

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Offline Belvis Noland

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we will never have the history of Serie A but the MLS if ran correctly will pass them too.


why?

Why what?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

why will the MLS, if run correctly, pass them too? 

why do you assume this?  serious question.  Not saying you're wrong, necessarily.  Just curious.   

well first you just have to look at where the MLS started and where it is now. then look at where Serie A was when the MLS started and where it is now. In the MLS you have a league that is in its infancy and in a nation where soccer used to not even be thought of and is consistently on the rise. Soccer fans in America are the youngest of any sport so the money and viewership behind the sport is only going to continue to grow.

At the business end of it as long as for the next 10-15 years the MLS continues to promote in game atmosphere and competitive balance it will continue to get exponentially better TV deals and sponsorship and then at that point they can turn the league loose allow these owners to spend how much they want and on what ever players they want and turn it into a league that can financially compete for elite players. Once the financial incentive for players to play in Europe is diminished getting the opportunity to play in America in a league that at that point will be of a much higher quality than it even is now will become very desirable.

Italy's professional league has not been of extreme quality for years, their native players are getting racially abused on the regular, and a lot of their teams seem to be in financial distress. They do not have a super power team on the European stage and haven't for a while and there does not seem to be any desire from elite players to leave their league to go there or elite managers to go there anymore. While there is no real comparing the two leagues as is right now, one league is on a very bullish path and the other is hardly even a shadow of itself from yesteryear.

This all makes sense, but how long will this take - 30 years?  I mean, despite the MLS great strides, any mid level serie A team would wipe the field with the MLS all stars, no?  Last year Roma horse whipped our league's best 3-1.  The current talent gap is stunning. 

Offline sunny_cat

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we will never have the history of Serie A but the MLS if ran correctly will pass them too.


why?

Why what?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

why will the MLS, if run correctly, pass them too? 

why do you assume this?  serious question.  Not saying you're wrong, necessarily.  Just curious.   

well first you just have to look at where the MLS started and where it is now. then look at where Serie A was when the MLS started and where it is now. In the MLS you have a league that is in its infancy and in a nation where soccer used to not even be thought of and is consistently on the rise. Soccer fans in America are the youngest of any sport so the money and viewership behind the sport is only going to continue to grow.

At the business end of it as long as for the next 10-15 years the MLS continues to promote in game atmosphere and competitive balance it will continue to get exponentially better TV deals and sponsorship and then at that point they can turn the league loose allow these owners to spend how much they want and on what ever players they want and turn it into a league that can financially compete for elite players. Once the financial incentive for players to play in Europe is diminished getting the opportunity to play in America in a league that at that point will be of a much higher quality than it even is now will become very desirable.

Italy's professional league has not been of extreme quality for years, their native players are getting racially abused on the regular, and a lot of their teams seem to be in financial distress. They do not have a super power team on the European stage and haven't for a while and there does not seem to be any desire from elite players to leave their league to go there or elite managers to go there anymore. While there is no real comparing the two leagues as is right now, one league is on a very bullish path and the other is hardly even a shadow of itself from yesteryear.

This all makes sense, but how long will this take - 30 years?  I mean, despite the MLS great strides, any mid level serie A team would wipe the field with the MLS all stars, no?  Last year Roma horse whipped our league's best 3-1.  The current talent gap is stunning.

:lol: That Roma team started the year off with like 8 straight wins. Also, it's an All Star team that had like two practices together.

Offline scottwildcat

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we will never have the history of Serie A but the MLS if ran correctly will pass them too.


why?

Why what?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

why will the MLS, if run correctly, pass them too? 

why do you assume this?  serious question.  Not saying you're wrong, necessarily.  Just curious.   

well first you just have to look at where the MLS started and where it is now. then look at where Serie A was when the MLS started and where it is now. In the MLS you have a league that is in its infancy and in a nation where soccer used to not even be thought of and is consistently on the rise. Soccer fans in America are the youngest of any sport so the money and viewership behind the sport is only going to continue to grow.

At the business end of it as long as for the next 10-15 years the MLS continues to promote in game atmosphere and competitive balance it will continue to get exponentially better TV deals and sponsorship and then at that point they can turn the league loose allow these owners to spend how much they want and on what ever players they want and turn it into a league that can financially compete for elite players. Once the financial incentive for players to play in Europe is diminished getting the opportunity to play in America in a league that at that point will be of a much higher quality than it even is now will become very desirable.

Italy's professional league has not been of extreme quality for years, their native players are getting racially abused on the regular, and a lot of their teams seem to be in financial distress. They do not have a super power team on the European stage and haven't for a while and there does not seem to be any desire from elite players to leave their league to go there or elite managers to go there anymore. While there is no real comparing the two leagues as is right now, one league is on a very bullish path and the other is hardly even a shadow of itself from yesteryear.

This all makes sense, but how long will this take - 30 years?  I mean, despite the MLS great strides, any mid level serie A team would wipe the field with the MLS all stars, no?  Last year Roma horse whipped our league's best 3-1.  The current talent gap is stunning.

Dude the MLS All-Stars where just out there messing around after a max of 3 practices together and no game time experience together, vs a team at the end of their preseason tour who not only had a core that had been together for awhile but were coming off multiple matches in the preseason leading into that game.


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Offline Belvis Noland

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Haha, you guys are unbelievable.  Are you suggesting the MLS and serie a talent gap isn't substantial? 

Roma flew over here in the 3rd week of their preseason and, essentially practicing, embarrassed us.  SKC, playing in top form, would finish last place in serie a.  We would win maybe 1 or 2 games and be lucky to scratch out some ties. 

It is what it is.  It will get better.  I just don't think it's as absolute and as quick as you clowns do. 

Offline scottwildcat

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Haha, you guys are unbelievable.  Are you suggesting the MLS and serie a talent gap isn't substantial? 

Roma flew over here in the 3rd week of their preseason and, essentially practicing, embarrassed us.  SKC, playing in top form, would finish last place in serie a.  We would win maybe 1 or 2 games and be lucky to scratch out some ties. 

It is what it is.  It will get better.  I just don't think it's as absolute and as quick as you clowns do.

You can take this crap to the MLS thread and stop flooding the national team thread but you're an idiot.


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Offline sunny_cat

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Haha, you guys are unbelievable.  Are you suggesting the MLS and serie a talent gap isn't substantial? 

Roma flew over here in the 3rd week of their preseason and, essentially practicing, embarrassed us.  SKC, playing in top form, would finish last place in serie a.  We would win maybe 1 or 2 games and be lucky to scratch out some ties. 

It is what it is.  It will get better.  I just don't think it's as absolute and as quick as you clowns do.

Nope

Offline Belvis Noland

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Haha, you guys are unbelievable.  Are you suggesting the MLS and serie a talent gap isn't substantial? 

Roma flew over here in the 3rd week of their preseason and, essentially practicing, embarrassed us.  SKC, playing in top form, would finish last place in serie a.  We would win maybe 1 or 2 games and be lucky to scratch out some ties. 

It is what it is.  It will get better.  I just don't think it's as absolute and as quick as you clowns do.

You can take this crap to the MLS thread and stop flooding the national team thread but you're an idiot.


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It belongs here, because of JKs comments that our usmnt players should be playing for teams like roma, and not MLS teams.  Like Michael Bradley. 

Offline asava

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Haha, you guys are unbelievable.  Are you suggesting the MLS and serie a talent gap isn't substantial? 

Roma flew over here in the 3rd week of their preseason and, essentially practicing, embarrassed us.  SKC, playing in top form, would finish last place in serie a.  We would win maybe 1 or 2 games and be lucky to scratch out some ties. 

It is what it is.  It will get better.  I just don't think it's as absolute and as quick as you clowns do.

You can take this crap to the MLS thread and stop flooding the national team thread but you're an idiot.


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he's pretty dead on, imo. skc would be relegated so fast.

Offline MakeItRain

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good read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/08/magazine/how-jurgen-klinsmann-plans-to-make-us-soccer-better-and-less-american.html?hpw&rref=magazine&_r=0

I just came to post that. So Jurgen basically admits to cutting Donovan for reasons other than his firm and what happened at camp, he had an agenda. Pretty ironic that his agenda seemed to be a BiD philosophy when it comes to a so-called American sports culture.


Where the eff are you reading that he had an agenda? The article plainly states that he didn't like the way Landon was performing, and then cut him. He's absolutely right about the "star" problem in America. Why continue to reward declining performance, and why give more control or power to a single player?

The agenda is that Landon's cut had nothing to do with his current form or anything to do with what happened in camp. There were two different quotes in this story that mentioned it and I know you have heard from others that Jurgen was bent about Landon's sabbatical and Jurgen has questioned Landon's motivation to anyone who will listen. Jurgen had no business even inviting Landon to that camp because it seems pretty obvious that he wasn't going to select him for the World Cup.


Bob Bradley had 3 MLSers in South Africa, Jurgen has 10.

And this is Jurgen's fault how? When Bradley was coaching we had, by far, more Americans playing abroad. Now we don't. It doesn't have much to do with the way JK went about selecting the players.

Didn't say it was anyones fault, as a matter of fact it isn't something that fault should be assigned for, but it should be praised. The point of bringing that up is that Klinsman continues to trash the MLS, but he selected 3x the amount of MLS players than what were selected in the previous world cup.
Quote
“He came back, and he was playing in M.L.S., and people say, ‘Oh, he’s playing well,’ but what does that really mean?” Klinsmann said. “This is where M.L.S. hurts him. He was playing at 70 percent, 80 percent, and he was still dominant. That doesn’t help anyone.”
He can't have it both ways. There are many more US players in the MLS because the league is better. He selected a team full of MLSers and than cut another one because he didn't feel he could accurately judge his form because he is in the MLS. Certainly you can admit that this is an inconsistent stance.


No one is more responsible for the current state of soccer in America than Sunil Gulati.

Some in the American media have turned on Jurgen and if we don't play well this month there will be a loud media roar, he's going to feel some of that heat that European and Mexican coaches feel when they lose.

By playing well do you mean setting the record for the longest USMNT winning streak going into the WC? B/C that is pretty good, imo. Why have we, as fans, lost perspective on our nations ability to play soccer with the rest of the world. When did we become such demanding, entitled whiners? What exactly gave us the idea that we deserve anything more than what we have right now (which is better than it has ever been)? All JK has done has set the record twice for win percentage in a given calendar year (2012, and 2013) as the USMNT coach, set the record for games won (16) in a calendar year (2013), and set the record for longest win streak (12) ever. He also led the team that beat Italy for the first time in our programs history. All of this was accomplished while drastically changing the way the team plays, the way it recruits, and the way it's youth programs operate. GMAFB.

I agree with this, but none of it matters if we get embarrassed this month and it shouldn't. International soccer is designed for all of that other stuff you mentioned to build to the world cup, the championship of the world's game played every four years isn't some footnote.  Bob Bradley did great things as well, and did decently in the world cup but he was fired as well. Jurgen has done wonderful things for US Soccer but it's not like he built any of this from the ground up, he has had the benefit of a slow build since 1994. This team will have literally 2X the coverage and money than any US squad before it, money and attention come with expectation and scrutiny.

Offline _33

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I wish you guys cared more about the NBA.