LHC Bill Snyder saved Kansas State University

[Whisker Biscuit]

It's not perfect, but if you include every team in college football I think you will find that recruiting rankings correlate quite well with winning (this has been shown several times).   It's not sole determiner, but it's more important than I think some people want to admit.

You should do one of your charts with "recruiting rankings" or "number of 4/5 star recruits" compared to "wins". I'm fairly certain we would be an outlier.

So are we attributing this to Bill recruiting significantly better than the web-nerd rankings?  Or is he simply that good at "coaching them up"?

[sonofdaxjones]

It looks like ol' Whisker is down with 4-5-6 losses a season. 

That's perfectly fine.   I think we could probably go out and hire a good younger coach who will be happy to come to K-State and will pull off the same kind of numbers.   The great thing about that, is that I know, I know down in my Flying Spaghetti Monster blessed soul that all the Snyderites will be fully supportive of a younger coach who is doing the 6-6/7-5/8-4 dance every year, because they're perfectly happy with it now.

Plus the program will be fun again, and won't be held hostage anymore by the Snyder's.

[michigancat]

It's not perfect, but if you include every team in college football I think you will find that recruiting rankings correlate quite well with winning (this has been shown several times).   It's not sole determiner, but it's more important than I think some people want to admit.

You should do one of your charts with "recruiting rankings" or "number of 4/5 star recruits" compared to "wins". I'm fairly certain we would be an outlier.

Why wouldn't Snyder's strategy apply to higher rated players? Like steal a three star from OSU that we see as a five star instead of stealing two stars from the MAC that we see as a four star. We'd still be an outlier, we'd just have more wins.

[BackPayne]

Whisker deserves to be punched for using the term web-nerd. 

[Shooter Jones]

We really should look into the feasibility of using NBAF to make our coaches and football players for us instead of curing cow aids.

Shooter Jones, you getting this? This is exactly the type of forward thinking our AD needs

Well, do you think our AD that is currently out of office until the 3rd of January and super pumped the bowl game is the day after Christmas so there isn't a pep rally and it's only a 1 day/night trip for him, isn't forward thinking?

[MakeItRain]

Regarding _Fan's question: I think our recruiting should be on par with Oklahoma State's.  I think we're roughly a top 35 program and that having recruiting classes that rank in the 60s and 70s and 80s is disgraceful.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/or6mav6QKg4?t=41s[/youtube]

The disconnect here is that when measured by a means other than web-nerds, our recruiting classes easily perform in the top 35.  If all you are wanting is the web-nerds to rank the classes higher, than i would agree, a different coach can likely improve our recruiting rankings, but to what end?  If your goal is to bring in players that perform such that the team is successful and players obtain post season recognition, I'm not sure how you can argue that we aren't doing just fine.  You can't honestly say that our web-nerd recruiting rankings reflect our talent.  It just isn't so.

I already spoke to this. The outperforming of higher classes can be attributed to development. The difference between an 8 win program in Snyder 2.0 and a 10 win program in Snyder 1.0 is that we aren't developing talent with a higher baseline. The thought that better talent can't be developed is wrong. Saban is a better coach than Jim Mora because he's better at developing talented players.

[MakeItRain]

It looks like ol' Whisker is down with 4-5-6 losses a season. 

That's perfectly fine.   I think we could probably go out and hire a good younger coach who will be happy to come to K-State and will pull off the same kind of numbers.   The great thing about that, is that I know, I know down in my Flying Spaghetti Monster blessed soul that all the Snyderites will be fully supportive of a younger coach who is doing the 6-6/7-5/8-4 dance every year, because they're perfectly happy with it now.

Plus the program will be fun again, and won't be held hostage anymore by the Snyder's.

That isn't fair, the ceiling for this program as it's constituted now, isn't 8 wins, that's the baseline expectation. I know you're doing your thing, but no one is happy with 6 win seasons.

[sonofdaxjones]

It looks like ol' Whisker is down with 4-5-6 losses a season. 

That's perfectly fine.   I think we could probably go out and hire a good younger coach who will be happy to come to K-State and will pull off the same kind of numbers.   The great thing about that, is that I know, I know down in my Flying Spaghetti Monster blessed soul that all the Snyderites will be fully supportive of a younger coach who is doing the 6-6/7-5/8-4 dance every year, because they're perfectly happy with it now.

Plus the program will be fun again, and won't be held hostage anymore by the Snyder's.

That isn't fair, the ceiling for this program as it's constituted now, isn't 8 wins, that's the baseline expectation. I know you're doing your thing, but no one is happy with 6 win seasons.

We are .592 over the last 3 seasons.  At any real football school that’s hot seat, not “let coach decide”. 

Clearly there’s enough support in all the right places and/or Kstate has a huge leadership problem.

[Whisker Biscuit]

Regarding _Fan's question: I think our recruiting should be on par with Oklahoma State's.  I think we're roughly a top 35 program and that having recruiting classes that rank in the 60s and 70s and 80s is disgraceful.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/or6mav6QKg4?t=41s[/youtube]

The disconnect here is that when measured by a means other than web-nerds, our recruiting classes easily perform in the top 35.  If all you are wanting is the web-nerds to rank the classes higher, than i would agree, a different coach can likely improve our recruiting rankings, but to what end?  If your goal is to bring in players that perform such that the team is successful and players obtain post season recognition, I'm not sure how you can argue that we aren't doing just fine.  You can't honestly say that our web-nerd recruiting rankings reflect our talent.  It just isn't so.

I already spoke to this. The outperforming of higher classes can be attributed to development. The difference between an 8 win program in Snyder 2.0 and a 10 win program in Snyder 1.0 is that we aren't developing talent with a higher baseline. The thought that better talent can't be developed is wrong. Saban is a better coach than Jim Mora because he's better at developing talented players.

I agree for the most part but 1.0 was helped tremendously by JUCO players who were shunned by most schools.  We can't hand pick the JUCO ranks like we could in 1.0 (especially mid 1.0).  Some of our best players were JUCO guys and that pipeline is pretty much gone.  We were definitely more talented in 1.0,partly for that reason.

[MakeItRain]

It looks like ol' Whisker is down with 4-5-6 losses a season. 

That's perfectly fine.   I think we could probably go out and hire a good younger coach who will be happy to come to K-State and will pull off the same kind of numbers.   The great thing about that, is that I know, I know down in my Flying Spaghetti Monster blessed soul that all the Snyderites will be fully supportive of a younger coach who is doing the 6-6/7-5/8-4 dance every year, because they're perfectly happy with it now.

Plus the program will be fun again, and won't be held hostage anymore by the Snyder's.

That isn't fair, the ceiling for this program as it's constituted now, isn't 8 wins, that's the baseline expectation. I know you're doing your thing, but no one is happy with 6 win seasons.

We are .592 over the last 3 seasons.  At any real football school that’s hot seat, not “let coach decide”. 

Clearly there’s enough support in all the right places and/or Kstate has a huge leadership problem.

No dax, that's simply incorrect, it's a wrong opinion. Show me the coach fired from a school with LHC Bill Snyder's resume simply from 2009 to today. Outside of the top 5-10 programs you absolutely won't find one. If we want to commit the resources to being more than a 8 win program then we can have those matching expectations, but we don't.

[Shooter Jones]

Kevin Sumlin has been better than Bill since 2009.

And don’t tell me A&M is a top 5-10 program.

[michigancat]

It looks like ol' Whisker is down with 4-5-6 losses a season. 

That's perfectly fine.   I think we could probably go out and hire a good younger coach who will be happy to come to K-State and will pull off the same kind of numbers.   The great thing about that, is that I know, I know down in my Flying Spaghetti Monster blessed soul that all the Snyderites will be fully supportive of a younger coach who is doing the 6-6/7-5/8-4 dance every year, because they're perfectly happy with it now.

Plus the program will be fun again, and won't be held hostage anymore by the Snyder's.

That isn't fair, the ceiling for this program as it's constituted now, isn't 8 wins, that's the baseline expectation. I know you're doing your thing, but no one is happy with 6 win seasons.

We are .592 over the last 3 seasons.  At any real football school that’s hot seat, not “let coach decide”. 

Clearly there’s enough support in all the right places and/or Kstate has a huge leadership problem.

No dax, that's simply incorrect, it's a wrong opinion. Show me the coach fired from a school with LHC Bill Snyder's resume simply from 2009 to today. Outside of the top 5-10 programs you absolutely won't find one. If we want to commit the resources to being more than a 8 win program then we can have those matching expectations, but we don't.

Todd Graham and Jim Mora are the best examples, they are at least in the ballpark. And maybe Mike Leach.

I was going to say Lane Kiffin and Mack Brown but they were fired from top 10 programs. So yeah, you pretty much nailed it. Coaches like Snyder probably shouldn't get fired.

[wetwillie]

Kevin Sumlin has been better than Bill since 2009.

And don’t tell me A&M is a top 5-10 program.

They have the biggest athletic budget in the country and just paid 75 million for a coach. I think resources wise they are in the conversation.

[Shooter Jones]

Honest question, how did Beamer go out at VT? I know they put a good plan together, but not sure if he was pushed to do so or if it was his idea.

His last 8 years are pretty similar to 2.0

[MakeItRain]

Honest question, how did Beamer go out at VT? I know they put a good plan together, but not sure if he was pushed to do so or if it was his idea.

His last 8 years are pretty similar to 2.0

It was his idea, he made the decision in season.

[sonofdaxjones]

Kevin Sumlin has been better than Bill since 2009.

And don’t tell me A&M is a top 5-10 program.

They have the biggest athletic budget in the country and just paid 75 million for a coach. I think resources wise they are in the conversation.

They don't have the biggest budget in the country, and they have fun with numbers on their revenues.   So aggy.

[Ihaveteeth]

It's not perfect, but if you include every team in college football I think you will find that recruiting rankings correlate quite well with winning (this has been shown several times).   It's not sole determiner, but it's more important than I think some people want to admit.

You should do one of your charts with "recruiting rankings" or "number of 4/5 star recruits" compared to "wins". I'm fairly certain we would be an outlier.

Why wouldn't Snyder's strategy apply to higher rated players? Like steal a three star from OSU that we see as a five star instead of stealing two stars from the MAC that we see as a four star. We'd still be an outlier, we'd just have more wins.

Thats literally every NFL player to ever play at KSU plus guys like CK.  KSU pretty much never signs a kid out of HS that is expected to be an NFL player, nor should they.  For every player KSU sends to the combine, there are several programs that feel like they missed on that kid.

[sonofdaxjones]

It's not perfect, but if you include every team in college football I think you will find that recruiting rankings correlate quite well with winning (this has been shown several times).   It's not sole determiner, but it's more important than I think some people want to admit.

You should do one of your charts with "recruiting rankings" or "number of 4/5 star recruits" compared to "wins". I'm fairly certain we would be an outlier.

Why wouldn't Snyder's strategy apply to higher rated players? Like steal a three star from OSU that we see as a five star instead of stealing two stars from the MAC that we see as a four star. We'd still be an outlier, we'd just have more wins.

Thats literally every NFL player to ever play at KSU plus guys like CK.  KSU pretty much never signs a kid out of HS that is expected to be an NFL player, nor should they.  For every player KSU sends to the combine, there are several programs that feel like they missed on that kid.

Yep, avoid can’t miss NFL prospects at all costs. 

[Shooter Jones]

BTW, not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but I was having drinks with some friends the other day and a dude riding solo at the bar (probably posting in the Iowa Hawkeyes version of gE alone at a bar thread) saw my K-State shirt, which I looked really good in, and decided to really jump into a conversation about Bill. I hadn't heard anything about it but he said Ferentz is being pretty stubborn like Bill, and working on getting his son the head job there. Looks like he was with the Patriots for a few years as a position coach, then was the O-Line coach at Iowa for 5 years, and is now the OC starting this season.

I didn't watch them besides the Clones game and the Ohio State beat down, but looks like his O was complete besides those two games.

Just thought I'd mention it as something to keep an eye on.

['taterblast]

i don't have the full context of the quote, but this is not a good look. "not missing any practices" should not be impressive for anyone on staff, LET ALONE the goddamn head coach. if we're at a place where "making it to practice" is something that impresses our athletic director, woof.

https://twitter.com/Matthew_D_Hall/status/943549596118274051

[kso_FAN]

[Dr Rick Daris]

i remember having a discussion once about the relative age of our classes and how they trended younger than others. like if someone doesn't turn 18 until late spring their senior year of highschool or maybe even the summer after, it seemed like we were targeting those players. like, we may bump someone up a star if they are young or something and value them more than other schools would. am I crazy or did we discuss that?

[BackPayne]

Or was this AD Taylor's way of pushing Bill out?  Stating what he did is only going to make the fanbase and donors react like Tater did and expect a change in direction.

[Shooter Jones]

He's alive!

I actually enjoyed that. Continue to surprise me, 'Stang. Please.

['taterblast]

i'm close to accepting my L on the topic of snyder and his handling of potential retirement. this isn't good.

https://twitter.com/dennisdoddcbs/status/943579887390117888