Post by: nicname on December 08, 2017, 03:05:50 AM
Post by: everyone shut up on December 08, 2017, 07:40:06 AM
Post by: Skipper44 on December 08, 2017, 10:39:36 AM
Houston would have been an easy replacement in the Big 12 and KState ends up in the Mo Valley and we become a peer of Indiana State and Illinois State instead of Oklahoma State.
Post by: everyone shut up on December 08, 2017, 06:38:18 PM
Post by: bshea85 on December 13, 2017, 11:05:50 AM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 13, 2017, 11:37:32 AM
Then LHC Bill Snyder University fans like to invoke the Wefald'ism that K-State was headed to 12,000 students if football wasn't turned around.
From 1987-1989 K-State went to 4 straight NCAA tourney's and an Elite 8.
In fact, K-State did not have another truely discernible enrollment spike until . . . . Huggins/Martin.
Post by: The Big Train on December 13, 2017, 12:19:28 PM
Post by: deputy dawg on December 13, 2017, 12:30:38 PM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on December 13, 2017, 01:59:27 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 13, 2017, 02:18:01 PM
K-State saved LHC Bill Snyder if anything.:ROFL:
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 13, 2017, 06:28:24 PM
So Dax hates LHC Bill Snyder too. No surprised.
Maybe you should spend the holidays away from this board. Reflect on a few things, try to resolve the perpetual butthurt and come back in the New Year better.
Post by: The Big Train on December 13, 2017, 06:29:31 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 13, 2017, 06:51:37 PM
:confused:
Your response to my original post was Pure WabashTuck 101.
Post by: The Big Train on December 13, 2017, 06:53:20 PM
:confused:
Your response to my original post was Pure WabashTuck 101.
Your post I responded to was what I have come to expect from someone who hates LHC Bill Snyder :dunno:
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 13, 2017, 06:54:44 PM
:confused:
Your response to my original post was Pure WabashTuck 101.
Your post I responded to was what I have come to expect from someone who hates LHC Bill Snyder :dunno:
Don't be like WackyTuck and get all butthurt because anything that's said about K-State (or KC) isn't shitting puppy dogs, pom-poms, and unicorns.
Post by: The Big Train on December 13, 2017, 06:55:34 PM
:confused:
Your response to my original post was Pure WabashTuck 101.
Your post I responded to was what I have come to expect from someone who hates LHC Bill Snyder :dunno:
Don't be like WackyTuck and get all butthurt because anything that's said about K-State (or KC) isn't shitting puppy dogs, pom-poms, and unicorns.
How was I butthurt? I just made a comment
Post by: nicname on December 14, 2017, 05:39:47 PM
Post by: manpow5 on December 14, 2017, 05:44:41 PM
I was really high when I posted this. I stand by my statement.:bong:
Post by: The Big Train on December 14, 2017, 09:00:01 PM
Hot take
Literally
Post by: stunted on December 15, 2017, 01:24:58 PM
kstate is bigger than bill now.
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 15, 2017, 01:26:08 PM
Hot dog!
FIFY.
Post by: LickNeckey on December 15, 2017, 01:43:57 PM
LHC LHC Bill Snyder is the girlfriend you get when you are down but she's still there for you and supports you and all that. then things start clicking and you get super successful and make a ton of money. while she's cute, extremely hot gold diggers are in your league now. at this point the right thing to do is convince yourself that she's holding you back and break it off with her.
kstate is bigger than bill now.
this is stupid
Post by: stunted on December 15, 2017, 02:02:45 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 15, 2017, 02:39:35 PM
LHC Bill Snyder is the girlfriend you get when you are down but she's still there for you and supports you and all that. then things start clicking and you get super successful and make a ton of money. while she's cute, extremely hot gold diggers are in your league now. at this point the right thing to do is convince yourself that she's holding you back and break it off with her.
kstate is bigger than bill now.
This is brilliant and I think I just had an epiphany.
I wonder if the anti-seanites/pro Venzy crowd represents this that you propose. Sean, at best, is more of Bill 2.0, an eight win program with an occasional run at a conference title. While Brent could mean a shot at something bigger. High risk, high reward.
How you feel about Sean is directly related to how you feel about the current state of the program. Am I on the right track here? @Shooter Jones @Dlew12
Post by: star seed 7 on December 15, 2017, 02:41:54 PM
Post by: DQ12 on December 15, 2017, 02:47:07 PM
Sure. If our ceiling under sean is more of the same that we've seen over the last 5 seasons then I'll pass. That said, I don't view Brent as any more "high risk" than Sean, which is where i'm guessing we'd disagree?LHC Bill Snyder is the girlfriend you get when you are down but she's still there for you and supports you and all that. then things start clicking and you get super successful and make a ton of money. while she's cute, extremely hot gold diggers are in your league now. at this point the right thing to do is convince yourself that she's holding you back and break it off with her.
kstate is bigger than bill now.
This is brilliant and I think I just had an epiphany.
I wonder if the anti-seanites/pro Venzy crowd represents this that you propose. Sean, at best, is more of Bill 2.0, an eight win program with an occasional run at a conference title. While Brent could mean a shot at something bigger. High risk, high reward.
How you feel about Sean is directly related to how you feel about the current state of the program. Am I on the right track here? @Shooter Jones @Dlew12
Sean, to me, is a guy with a ton of question marks, outside of, hey, he does a bang up job in the return game. At least with Brent, we have a guy who has proven that he can coach defense to the highest level and recruit. I concede that neither is a "sure thing" -- "sure things" are virtually nonexistent in these circumstances. But I prefer Brent's proven track record versus Sean's, which presumably consists of some intimate father-son time wherein Bill share's all of his secrets to success.
Post by: BackPayne on December 15, 2017, 03:00:53 PM
Easy choice.
Post by: Joker on December 15, 2017, 03:07:06 PM
Hey 4*/5* recruit, would you rather play for HC Sean, who has coached ST and almost got to the NC game in 1998 or a HC Brent who has been a DC for two NC teams and a continual Top 5/10 team?
Easy choice.
I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that Brent is a far superior recruiter. If recruiting prowess is your only criterion for choosing a HC then, yeah, Brent all the way.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 15, 2017, 03:10:12 PM
Sure. If our ceiling under sean is more of the same that we've seen over the last 5 seasons then I'll pass. That said, I don't view Brent as any more "high risk" than Sean, which is where i'm guessing we'd disagree?LHC Bill Snyder is the girlfriend you get when you are down but she's still there for you and supports you and all that. then things start clicking and you get super successful and make a ton of money. while she's cute, extremely hot gold diggers are in your league now. at this point the right thing to do is convince yourself that she's holding you back and break it off with her.
kstate is bigger than bill now.
This is brilliant and I think I just had an epiphany.
I wonder if the anti-seanites/pro Venzy crowd represents this that you propose. Sean, at best, is more of Bill 2.0, an eight win program with an occasional run at a conference title. While Brent could mean a shot at something bigger. High risk, high reward.
How you feel about Sean is directly related to how you feel about the current state of the program. Am I on the right track here? @Shooter Jones @Dlew12
Sean, to me, is a guy with a ton of question marks, outside of, hey, he does a bang up job in the return game. At least with Brent, we have a guy who has proven that he can coach defense to the highest level and recruit. I concede that neither is a "sure thing" -- "sure things" are virtually nonexistent in these circumstances. But I prefer Brent's proven track record versus Sean's, which presumably consists of some intimate father-son time wherein Bill share's all of his secrets to success.
Brent represents slightly higher risk because he doesn't seem to externally possess any qualities you'd want in someone you'd want to run a program. He connotes winning, not leadership, like nothing about him does.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 15, 2017, 03:11:28 PM
Hey 4*/5* recruit, would you rather play for HC Sean, who has coached ST and almost got to the NC game in 1998 or a HC Brent who has been a DC for two NC teams and a continual Top 5/10 team?
Easy choice.
Is life really this simplistic?
Post by: DQ12 on December 15, 2017, 03:11:49 PM
Brent represents slightly higher risk because he doesn't seem to externally possess any qualities you'd want in someone you'd want to run a program. He connotes winning, not leadership, like nothing about him does.No clue what you're basing this on.
Post by: meow meow on December 15, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
Post by: LickNeckey on December 15, 2017, 03:44:18 PM
id tell you to eat a dick but you already have bill's in your mouth
i stand corrected
you are stupid
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 15, 2017, 04:20:09 PM
Sure. If our ceiling under sean is more of the same that we've seen over the last 5 seasons then I'll pass. That said, I don't view Brent as any more "high risk" than Sean, which is where i'm guessing we'd disagree?LHC Bill Snyder is the girlfriend you get when you are down but she's still there for you and supports you and all that. then things start clicking and you get super successful and make a ton of money. while she's cute, extremely hot gold diggers are in your league now. at this point the right thing to do is convince yourself that she's holding you back and break it off with her.
kstate is bigger than bill now.
This is brilliant and I think I just had an epiphany.
I wonder if the anti-seanites/pro Venzy crowd represents this that you propose. Sean, at best, is more of Bill 2.0, an eight win program with an occasional run at a conference title. While Brent could mean a shot at something bigger. High risk, high reward.
How you feel about Sean is directly related to how you feel about the current state of the program. Am I on the right track here? @Shooter Jones @Dlew12
Sean, to me, is a guy with a ton of question marks, outside of, hey, he does a bang up job in the return game. At least with Brent, we have a guy who has proven that he can coach defense to the highest level and recruit. I concede that neither is a "sure thing" -- "sure things" are virtually nonexistent in these circumstances. But I prefer Brent's proven track record versus Sean's, which presumably consists of some intimate father-son time wherein Bill share's all of his secrets to success.
Brent represents slightly higher risk because he doesn't seem to externally possess any qualities you'd want in someone you'd want to run a program. He connotes winning, not leadership, like nothing about him does.
And Sean does possess the qualities you'd want? I'd honestly like to know what you think.
I guess I just think some people are convinced Sean is a Bill clone? Or at least a Kroger brand Bill? When I don't see any similarities and really don't think he has done anything to make me think he can lead this program, but I could be persuaded if someone wants to make some good points.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 15, 2017, 04:29:58 PM
Brent represents slightly higher risk because he doesn't seem to externally possess any qualities you'd want in someone you'd want to run a program. He connotes winning, not leadership, like nothing about him does.No clue what you're basing this on.
https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/brent-venables-had-opportunities-to-leave-clemson-nothing-was-too/article_2edd4898-e134-11e7-9f57-3b5351d9955d.html
(https://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/adam-smotherman-brent-venables-tri.jpg?w=1200)
(https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-media-theathletic-production/app/uploads/2017/11/08132545/Venables_GetBack.gif)
Post by: MakeItRain on December 15, 2017, 04:39:03 PM
And Sean does possess the qualities you'd want? I'd honestly like to know what you think.Sure. If our ceiling under sean is more of the same that we've seen over the last 5 seasons then I'll pass. That said, I don't view Brent as any more "high risk" than Sean, which is where i'm guessing we'd disagree?LHC Bill Snyder is the girlfriend you get when you are down but she's still there for you and supports you and all that. then things start clicking and you get super successful and make a ton of money. while she's cute, extremely hot gold diggers are in your league now. at this point the right thing to do is convince yourself that she's holding you back and break it off with her.
kstate is bigger than bill now.
This is brilliant and I think I just had an epiphany.
I wonder if the anti-seanites/pro Venzy crowd represents this that you propose. Sean, at best, is more of Bill 2.0, an eight win program with an occasional run at a conference title. While Brent could mean a shot at something bigger. High risk, high reward.
How you feel about Sean is directly related to how you feel about the current state of the program. Am I on the right track here? @Shooter Jones @Dlew12
Sean, to me, is a guy with a ton of question marks, outside of, hey, he does a bang up job in the return game. At least with Brent, we have a guy who has proven that he can coach defense to the highest level and recruit. I concede that neither is a "sure thing" -- "sure things" are virtually nonexistent in these circumstances. But I prefer Brent's proven track record versus Sean's, which presumably consists of some intimate father-son time wherein Bill share's all of his secrets to success.
Brent represents slightly higher risk because he doesn't seem to externally possess any qualities you'd want in someone you'd want to run a program. He connotes winning, not leadership, like nothing about him does.
No idea. You guys keep wanting me to paint Sean in a positive light in comparison to Brent when, before today I've said over and over that to me they would represent similar hires.
I do know that Sean doesn't need a grown man to physically restrain him in the course of doing his job. I also know that Sean doesn't have public quotes shying away from the the responsibility of being K-State's head coach, if he did I'd turn my back on him too.
IMO there are things about both that you have to hold your nose and tolerate, it's just with each Venables quote my tolerance is being eroded. It's very possible that Sean would say similar things, but unlike Brent, Sean hasn't stripped the mystery of his mindset.
Post by: meow meow on December 15, 2017, 04:53:54 PM
Post by: CHONGS on December 15, 2017, 05:47:02 PM
Anyone opposed to Snyder being on the interview panel? I think it would help the new coach to have that seal of approval with the fanbase.
I'm opposed. He wants his son who wants no part of the job to coach, his judgement is highly questionable.
What has convinced you that Sean wants the job now?
Post by: Trim on December 15, 2017, 08:48:35 PM
I do know that Sean doesn't need a grown man to physically restrain him in the course of doing his job.
He might not need one, but if he had one, it'd have prevented a 15-yard penalty.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 15, 2017, 09:59:34 PM
Genuinely curious, what has changed since:Anyone opposed to Snyder being on the interview panel? I think it would help the new coach to have that seal of approval with the fanbase.
I'm opposed. He wants his son who wants no part of the job to coach, his judgement is highly questionable.
What has convinced you that Sean wants the job now?
I don't, I've hedged that about five times today alone. He's certainly not publicly shying away from the possibility though.
Post by: CHONGS on December 16, 2017, 07:52:54 AM
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Post by: catastrophe on December 16, 2017, 08:23:20 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on December 16, 2017, 08:40:51 AM
How did you know he wanted no part of the job if he didn't say anything publicly?I honestly think that was in an interview somewhere in the past. Maybe I'm fusing message board with actual news.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 16, 2017, 09:20:17 AM
Hey 4*/5* recruit, would you rather play for HC Sean, who has coached ST and almost got to the NC game in 1998 or a HC Brent who has been a DC for two NC teams and a continual Top 5/10 team?
Easy choice.
I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that Brent is a far superior recruiter. If recruiting prowess is your only criterion for choosing a HC then, yeah, Brent all the way.
It's just hysterical how people judge "recruiting prowess" by the ability to sign recruits deemed 4 and 5 stars by people like Jeremy Crabtree who last wore a football helmet while riding his big wheel. I love Jeremy but i couldn't give two shits about his thoughts about the football ability of a recruit. A coaches recruiting ability should be judged by the number of players that are recognized at the end of the season for postseason accolades.
EDIT: Post season accolades is only one measure, a very important one, and infinitely more important than how the class is ranked by a website. That's my point.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 16, 2017, 10:43:55 AM
How did you know he wanted no part of the job if he didn't say anything publicly?I honestly think that was in an interview somewhere in the past. Maybe I'm fusing message board with actual news.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Same, maybe conjecture, I don't know, that was nearly a year ago
Post by: Joker on December 16, 2017, 10:51:17 AM
Hey 4*/5* recruit, would you rather play for HC Sean, who has coached ST and almost got to the NC game in 1998 or a HC Brent who has been a DC for two NC teams and a continual Top 5/10 team?
Easy choice.
I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that Brent is a far superior recruiter. If recruiting prowess is your only criterion for choosing a HC then, yeah, Brent all the way.
It's just hysterical how people judge "recruiting prowess" by the ability to sign recruits deemed 4 and 5 stars by people like Jeremy Crabtree who last wore a football helmet while riding his big wheel. I love Jeremy but i couldn't give two shits about his thoughts about the football ability of a recruit. A coaches recruiting ability should be judged by the number of players that are recognized at the end of the season for postseason accolades.
EDIT: Post season accolades is only one measure, a very important one, and infinitely more important than how the class is ranked by a website. That's my point.
So, we're going down the "stars don't matter" road on this?
Post by: BackPayne on December 16, 2017, 11:12:08 AM
Post by: everyone shut up on December 16, 2017, 02:39:09 PM
JFC, guys. Why are we content with 3* and lower players? We are OK with them and Bill, but if we want to consistently compete for a Big12 championship and even think of getting close to the National Championship it will take athletes with elite talent.Barring our injuries, we would have done that this season, IMO.
Post by: michigancat on December 16, 2017, 02:58:44 PM
Hey 4*/5* recruit, would you rather play for HC Sean, who has coached ST and almost got to the NC game in 1998 or a HC Brent who has been a DC for two NC teams and a continual Top 5/10 team?Sean was in administration through all of Snyder 1.0. So he would be a liar in this scenario.
Easy choice.
http://www.kstatesports.com/news/2005/12/9/5583dd8ae4b06b726e664288_131478204962256002.aspx
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 16, 2017, 03:02:54 PM
JFC, guys. Why are we content with 3* and lower players? We are OK with them and Bill, but if we want to consistently compete for a Big12 championship and even think of getting close to the National Championship it will take athletes with elite talent.Barring our injuries, we would have done that this season, IMO.
Hopefully you're including our coaches' injured brains in that assessment.
Post by: wetwillie on December 16, 2017, 06:19:47 PM
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 17, 2017, 11:35:50 AM
JFC, guys. Why are we content with 3* and lower players? We are OK with them and Bill, but if we want to consistently compete for a Big12 championship and even think of getting close to the National Championship it will take athletes with elite talent.Barring our injuries, we would have done that this season, IMO.
Yup, the team was a well oiled machine while healthy in nashville. It was downhill after the injuries.
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 17, 2017, 12:05:24 PM
We own the longest streak in the country of consistently sending players to the NFL and yet we still have people shitposting about a lack of talent.
B’lieve you mean in the Big 12, not the country.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article147095469.html
If we multiply our current streak by about 3, we’ll equal where the leading teams are.
https://spartanavenue.com/2017/05/01/michigan-state-football-3rd-longest-streak-nfl-draft/amp/
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 17, 2017, 12:41:20 PM
We own the longest streak in the country of consistently sending players to the NFL and yet we still have people shitposting about a lack of talent.
You clearly don't pay any attention to the recruiting rankings. our talent sucks. 2-3 star guys only. no 4-5 stars. only got 5 players on all big 12 first team this year. fire everyone associated with recruiting and hire some "good" recruiters that sign players the web nerds think are good.
Post by: michigancat on December 17, 2017, 12:49:08 PM
Post by: pissclams on December 17, 2017, 04:29:48 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 17, 2017, 04:58:10 PM
We own the longest streak in the country of consistently sending players to the NFL and yet we still have people shitposting about a lack of talent.
You clearly don't pay any attention to the recruiting rankings. our talent sucks. 2-3 star guys only. no 4-5 stars. only got 5 players on all big 12 first team this year. fire everyone associated with recruiting and hire some "good" recruiters that sign players the web nerds think are good.
Then we were badly out coached and way under performed.
Say, who is the guy supposedly running the program over the last 3 seasons of barely above .500 football??
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 17, 2017, 05:15:41 PM
We own the longest streak in the country of consistently sending players to the NFL and yet we still have people shitposting about a lack of talent.
You clearly don't pay any attention to the recruiting rankings. our talent sucks. 2-3 star guys only. no 4-5 stars. only got 5 players on all big 12 first team this year. fire everyone associated with recruiting and hire some "good" recruiters that sign players the web nerds think are good.
Then we were badly out coached and way under performed.
Say, who is the guy supposedly running the program over the last 3 seasons of barely above .500 football??
Have you found anyone to argue with you that we underperformed this season?
I know you are one of the ra-tards constantly bitching about our lack of recruiting but see nothing from you to explain your rationale when someone points out the number of players we have on the All Big 12 team. You just change your argument to criticizing coaching. Convenient i guess. hard to take you seriously.
Post by: PIPE on December 17, 2017, 05:54:15 PM
Our 3* recruits get you 8-4 or 7-5 type seasons.
Post by: wetwillie on December 17, 2017, 05:57:15 PM
Post by: BackPayne on December 17, 2017, 06:23:32 PM
Post by: DOD Take 2 on December 17, 2017, 06:25:47 PM
We own the longest streak in the country of consistently sending players to the NFL and yet we still have people shitposting about a lack of talent.
You clearly don't pay any attention to the recruiting rankings. our talent sucks. 2-3 star guys only. no 4-5 stars. only got 5 players on all big 12 first team this year. fire everyone associated with recruiting and hire some "good" recruiters that sign players the web nerds think are good.
We’ve had the stars matter argument on this very website already. It’s well documented that stars translate to wins and nfl draft picks.
Post by: kso_FAN on December 17, 2017, 06:33:51 PM
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 17, 2017, 06:40:28 PM
Going by star ratings, what is the recruiting ceiling for K-State? How many 4-5 star players and what recruiting class ranking should we be shooting for? I'm interested in what people think recruiting at K-State should look like.
This should be entertaining.
Post by: kso_FAN on December 17, 2017, 07:02:58 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 17, 2017, 07:13:37 PM
Going by star ratings, what is the recruiting ceiling for K-State? How many 4-5 star players and what recruiting class ranking should we be shooting for? I'm interested in what people think recruiting at K-State should look like.Classes similar to Oklahoma State should be attainable IMO. Won't happen overnight, but it seems reasonable.
I mean have we ever won a head to head battle for a recruit against them recently? I honestly don't know, but I feel like we should be able to.
Post by: Trim on December 17, 2017, 07:17:37 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 17, 2017, 07:25:41 PM
My God, what in the helll has this place become?! Yay for 7-5/8-4 seasons. Do you seriously think that we wouldn't be much better with the talent OU gets? This is just pathetic.
I'm not 100% sure what you're trying you say here, but I'm perfectly happy being an 8 win program. There are a lot more Iowa States, Texas Techs, and Pitts of the college football world than K-States, Texas A&MS, and Utahs.
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 17, 2017, 07:33:26 PM
My God, what in the helll has this place become?! Yay for 7-5/8-4 seasons. Do you seriously think that we wouldn't be much better with the talent OU gets? This is just pathetic.
I'm not 100% sure what you're trying you say here, but I'm perfectly happy being an 8 win program. There are a lot more Iowa States, Texas Techs, and Pitts of the college football world than K-States, Texas A&MS, and Utahs.
Typical KSU loser mentality. Happy with 8-4 and a bunch of 2-3 star recruits. We have good facilities and Manhattan is a real nice place and we get 50,000 fans to come to our games! No reason we shouldn't be signing 4-5 star players and expecting to play for the NC every year. It's your loser mentality that keeps this program down.
Post by: michigancat on December 17, 2017, 07:34:02 PM
I pretty much agree. If you're an "8 win program" your going to have 10 win and 6 win seasons. And we have those.My God, what in the helll has this place become?! Yay for 7-5/8-4 seasons. Do you seriously think that we wouldn't be much better with the talent OU gets? This is just pathetic.
I'm not 100% sure what you're trying you say here, but I'm perfectly happy being an 8 win program. There are a lot more Iowa States, Texas Techs, and Pitts of the college football world than K-States, Texas A&MS, and Utahs.
Post by: michigancat on December 17, 2017, 07:37:28 PM
You know it's possible to be ok with the current status of the program but also want to be better.My God, what in the helll has this place become?! Yay for 7-5/8-4 seasons. Do you seriously think that we wouldn't be much better with the talent OU gets? This is just pathetic.
I'm not 100% sure what you're trying you say here, but I'm perfectly happy being an 8 win program. There are a lot more Iowa States, Texas Techs, and Pitts of the college football world than K-States, Texas A&MS, and Utahs.
Typical KSU loser mentality. Happy with 8-4 and a bunch of 2-3 star recruits. We have good facilities and Manhattan is a real nice place and we get 50,000 fans to come to our games! No reason we shouldn't be signing 4-5 star players and expecting to play for the NC every year. It's your loser mentality that keeps this program down.
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 17, 2017, 07:43:44 PM
You know it's possible to be ok with the current status of the program but also want to be better.My God, what in the helll has this place become?! Yay for 7-5/8-4 seasons. Do you seriously think that we wouldn't be much better with the talent OU gets? This is just pathetic.
I'm not 100% sure what you're trying you say here, but I'm perfectly happy being an 8 win program. There are a lot more Iowa States, Texas Techs, and Pitts of the college football world than K-States, Texas A&MS, and Utahs.
Typical KSU loser mentality. Happy with 8-4 and a bunch of 2-3 star recruits. We have good facilities and Manhattan is a real nice place and we get 50,000 fans to come to our games! No reason we shouldn't be signing 4-5 star players and expecting to play for the NC every year. It's your loser mentality that keeps this program down.
You couldn't find 5 people on this board who are "ok with the current status of the program" so i have no idea what you are talking about. I enjoy discussing ways we can improve (usually with the other 3-4 reasonable people in this place). I blasted our play calling most of the year. The recruiting argument gets settled at the end of every year when we routinely have more than our share of players recognized for postseason accolades. That argument is old, tired and absurd. It should go away.
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 17, 2017, 07:52:01 PM
Going by star ratings, what is the recruiting ceiling for K-State? How many 4-5 star players and what recruiting class ranking should we be shooting for? I'm interested in what people think recruiting at K-State should look like.The Big 12 has exactly 1 5-star recruit signed for 2018, so KSU should be able to sign at least 2 of them each season.
Post by: BackPayne on December 17, 2017, 08:01:23 PM
Play calling can make or break a team with a lot of decent athletes. Sometimes it takes the 4*/5* players to create plays when the play calling sucks.
I also believe top athletes will help to draw in other top athletes.
Post by: wetwillie on December 17, 2017, 08:20:50 PM
Post by: kso_FAN on December 17, 2017, 09:02:58 PM
I pretty much agree. If you're an "8 win program" your going to have 10 win and 6 win seasons. And we have those.My God, what in the helll has this place become?! Yay for 7-5/8-4 seasons. Do you seriously think that we wouldn't be much better with the talent OU gets? This is just pathetic.
I'm not 100% sure what you're trying you say here, but I'm perfectly happy being an 8 win program. There are a lot more Iowa States, Texas Techs, and Pitts of the college football world than K-States, Texas A&MS, and Utahs.
So basically 2.0 then.
Post by: michigancat on December 18, 2017, 12:48:39 AM
YeahI pretty much agree. If you're an "8 win program" your going to have 10 win and 6 win seasons. And we have those.My God, what in the helll has this place become?! Yay for 7-5/8-4 seasons. Do you seriously think that we wouldn't be much better with the talent OU gets? This is just pathetic.
I'm not 100% sure what you're trying you say here, but I'm perfectly happy being an 8 win program. There are a lot more Iowa States, Texas Techs, and Pitts of the college football world than K-States, Texas A&MS, and Utahs.
So basically 2.0 then.
Post by: LickNeckey on December 18, 2017, 08:05:51 AM
My God, what in the helll has this place become?! Yay for 7-5/8-4 seasons. Do you seriously think that we wouldn't be much better with the talent OU gets? This is just pathetic.
I'm not 100% sure what you're trying you say here, but I'm perfectly happy being an 8 win program. There are a lot more Iowa States, Texas Techs, and Pitts of the college football world than K-States, Texas A&MS, and Utahs.
Typical KSU loser mentality. Happy with 8-4 and a bunch of 2-3 star recruits. We have good facilities and Manhattan is a real nice place and we get 50,000 fans to come to our games! No reason we shouldn't be signing 4-5 star players and expecting to play for the NC every year. It's your loser mentality that keeps this program down.
:Purple Koolaid:
Post by: ChiComCat on December 18, 2017, 09:35:52 AM
You couldn't find 5 people on this board who are "ok with the current status of the program" so i have no idea what you are talking about. I enjoy discussing ways we can improve (usually with the other 3-4 reasonable people in this place). I blasted our play calling most of the year. The recruiting argument gets settled at the end of every year when we routinely have more than our share of players recognized for postseason accolades. That argument is old, tired and absurd. It should go away.
When we've been at our best (over 9 wins), it's usually been because of some elite level talent in the system. Nobody legitimately expects us to recruit against elite schools but I'd like to see us recruit in top 45 pretty consistently.
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 18, 2017, 10:12:56 AM
Going by star ratings, what is the recruiting ceiling for K-State? How many 4-5 star players and what recruiting class ranking should we be shooting for? I'm interested in what people think recruiting at K-State should look like.
I don't really want to get into a stars/hearts argument. But more often than not, stars are accurate with 4*'s and almost always with 5*'s. You need to identify the most talented 3 stars which I think this staff does, 4's and 5's are already identified.
In saying that, since the planned/built Vanier 2.0 started, K-State has averaged around 70th-ish ranked recruiting classes (currently 81st with this class), with basically 1 4* each year. I bring that up because I think that facility moved us up to the middle of P5 in facilities at minimum, and I think we've been middle of P5 in success winning recently (but haven't been crazy successful in the lifetime of these recruits), regional airport, etc. I believe the recruiting disadvantages talking point is crap now.
So in a world where not all 3*'s are created equal, I think that means K-State could/should have top 40-50 (hell, a year with a couple more surprise 4*'s, top 25-30!) ranked classes every year. What that means as far as numbers of 4*/5* guys, I don't know, but there is absolutely no reason K-State can't be around the bottom part of the middle of P5's every year and higher with others. Anything below 65th nationally is absolutely unacceptable.
FWIW, I think Venzy can bring in top 30-40 classes every year.
Post by: cfbandyman on December 18, 2017, 10:40:52 AM
You couldn't find 5 people on this board who are "ok with the current status of the program" so i have no idea what you are talking about. I enjoy discussing ways we can improve (usually with the other 3-4 reasonable people in this place). I blasted our play calling most of the year. The recruiting argument gets settled at the end of every year when we routinely have more than our share of players recognized for postseason accolades. That argument is old, tired and absurd. It should go away.
I am not thrilled with it, but if we can keep turning in 8-4 seasons, those 9, 10, 11 wins seasons come around a lot more. I'd rather prove we can be solid consistent winners, than try and reach for something we are not yet. Most schools make that mistake and end up hiring a mistake and it restarts the clock on them.
i especially want this want Bill is gone, nothing will change the perception of this program more than having not LHC Bill Snyder be the one turning in 8-4 seasons. It'll show everyone we aren't sliding into obscurity, and then you can hire a more risk/reward type coach that could make us elite for like 5 seasons before being hired away to Bama/Clemson/etc
We also get rather decent talent, er just need to get a few more, we're not hauling in top 30s like ever.
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 18, 2017, 10:49:36 AM
Going by star ratings, what is the recruiting ceiling for K-State? How many 4-5 star players and what recruiting class ranking should we be shooting for? I'm interested in what people think recruiting at K-State should look like.
I don't really want to get into a stars/hearts argument. But more often than not, stars are accurate with 4*'s and almost always with 5*'s. You need to identify the most talented 3 stars which I think this staff does, 4's and 5's are already identified.
In saying that, since the planned/built Vanier 2.0 started, K-State has averaged around 70th-ish ranked recruiting classes (currently 81st with this class), with basically 1 4* each year. I bring that up because I think that facility moved us up to the middle of P5 in facilities at minimum, and I think we've been middle of P5 in success winning recently (but haven't been crazy successful in the lifetime of these recruits), regional airport, etc. I believe the recruiting disadvantages talking point is crap now.
So in a world where not all 3*'s are created equal, I think that means K-State could/should have top 40-50 (hell, a year with a couple more surprise 4*'s, top 25-30!) ranked classes every year. What that means as far as numbers of 4*/5* guys, I don't know, but there is absolutely no reason K-State can't be around the bottom part of the middle of P5's every year and higher with others. Anything below 65th nationally is absolutely unacceptable.
FWIW, I think Venzy can bring in top 30-40 classes every year.
Facilities! :gocho:
Post by: Joker on December 18, 2017, 11:30:35 AM
Quote
Most interesting about the study's findings, however, is the important role that a campus' facilities play to a recruit's decision. A recruit's opinion of a team's playing facilities ranked as the fourth most important factor, while campus living facilities and team facilities ranked sixth and eighth, respectively.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciajessop/2012/12/14/the-surprising-factors-driving-college-football-recruits-decision/#54b350e8411a
Quote
“This is going to help us out tremendously,” Braet said. “With the new facility and what all we have now, it should help us in recruiting a great deal. It has put us now where we should be, with our facilities matching the way our team plays. I really think this is going to take us to the next level.”
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article31125119.html
Quote
The majority of them are going to ask about your facilities,” Levine said. “Families want to know what kind of venues they’ll be sitting in watching their child play for four or five years. The young men we recruit naturally wanna to see the locker room, see the stadium, see the field.”
http://thedailycougar.com/2014/11/19/campus-facilities-impact-recruiting/
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 18, 2017, 01:00:07 PM
Keep poking fun at those absurd facilities, Whisker...QuoteMost interesting about the study's findings, however, is the important role that a campus' facilities play to a recruit's decision. A recruit's opinion of a team's playing facilities ranked as the fourth most important factor, while campus living facilities and team facilities ranked sixth and eighth, respectively.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciajessop/2012/12/14/the-surprising-factors-driving-college-football-recruits-decision/#54b350e8411aQuote“This is going to help us out tremendously,” Braet said. “With the new facility and what all we have now, it should help us in recruiting a great deal. It has put us now where we should be, with our facilities matching the way our team plays. I really think this is going to take us to the next level.”
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article31125119.htmlQuoteThe majority of them are going to ask about your facilities,” Levine said. “Families want to know what kind of venues they’ll be sitting in watching their child play for four or five years. The young men we recruit naturally wanna to see the locker room, see the stadium, see the field.”
http://thedailycougar.com/2014/11/19/campus-facilities-impact-recruiting/
Fourth (and Eighth) most important factor to a recruit: CHECK!
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 18, 2017, 01:25:16 PM
Keep poking fun at those absurd facilities, Whisker...QuoteMost interesting about the study's findings, however, is the important role that a campus' facilities play to a recruit's decision. A recruit's opinion of a team's playing facilities ranked as the fourth most important factor, while campus living facilities and team facilities ranked sixth and eighth, respectively.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciajessop/2012/12/14/the-surprising-factors-driving-college-football-recruits-decision/#54b350e8411aQuote“This is going to help us out tremendously,” Braet said. “With the new facility and what all we have now, it should help us in recruiting a great deal. It has put us now where we should be, with our facilities matching the way our team plays. I really think this is going to take us to the next level.”
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article31125119.htmlQuoteThe majority of them are going to ask about your facilities,” Levine said. “Families want to know what kind of venues they’ll be sitting in watching their child play for four or five years. The young men we recruit naturally wanna to see the locker room, see the stadium, see the field.”
http://thedailycougar.com/2014/11/19/campus-facilities-impact-recruiting/
Fourth (and Eighth) most important factor to a recruit: CHECK!
Pro Tip: Most recruits have more than one reason for picking a school.
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 18, 2017, 02:23:35 PM
Keep poking fun at those absurd facilities, Whisker...QuoteMost interesting about the study's findings, however, is the important role that a campus' facilities play to a recruit's decision. A recruit's opinion of a team's playing facilities ranked as the fourth most important factor, while campus living facilities and team facilities ranked sixth and eighth, respectively.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciajessop/2012/12/14/the-surprising-factors-driving-college-football-recruits-decision/#54b350e8411aQuote“This is going to help us out tremendously,” Braet said. “With the new facility and what all we have now, it should help us in recruiting a great deal. It has put us now where we should be, with our facilities matching the way our team plays. I really think this is going to take us to the next level.”
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article31125119.htmlQuoteThe majority of them are going to ask about your facilities,” Levine said. “Families want to know what kind of venues they’ll be sitting in watching their child play for four or five years. The young men we recruit naturally wanna to see the locker room, see the stadium, see the field.”
http://thedailycougar.com/2014/11/19/campus-facilities-impact-recruiting/
Fourth (and Eighth) most important factor to a recruit: CHECK!
Pro Tip: Most recruits have more than one reason for picking a school.
WHAT??!???!?????!!!???? You mean like proximity to their home/family? I don't get it. Makes no sense why Texas, FSU, Bama, Ohio State, etc. would have any factors that might lead to better recruiting. WE ARE KSTATE!! WE HAVE NICE FACILITIES!! WE SHOULD SIGN 4 AND 5 STAR TALENT!! 5 PLAYERS ON THE ALL BIG 12 TEAM IS NOT ENOUGH!! I DEMAND MORE TALENT!! I WANT TO WIN THE STAR WARS!!! (timely pun :)
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 18, 2017, 03:33:56 PM
Keep poking fun at those absurd facilities, Whisker...QuoteMost interesting about the study's findings, however, is the important role that a campus' facilities play to a recruit's decision. A recruit's opinion of a team's playing facilities ranked as the fourth most important factor, while campus living facilities and team facilities ranked sixth and eighth, respectively.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciajessop/2012/12/14/the-surprising-factors-driving-college-football-recruits-decision/#54b350e8411aQuote“This is going to help us out tremendously,” Braet said. “With the new facility and what all we have now, it should help us in recruiting a great deal. It has put us now where we should be, with our facilities matching the way our team plays. I really think this is going to take us to the next level.”
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article31125119.htmlQuoteThe majority of them are going to ask about your facilities,” Levine said. “Families want to know what kind of venues they’ll be sitting in watching their child play for four or five years. The young men we recruit naturally wanna to see the locker room, see the stadium, see the field.”
http://thedailycougar.com/2014/11/19/campus-facilities-impact-recruiting/
Fourth (and Eighth) most important factor to a recruit: CHECK!
Pro Tip: Most recruits have more than one reason for picking a school.
WHAT??!???!?????!!!???? You mean like proximity to their home/family? I don't get it. Makes no sense why Texas, FSU, Bama, Ohio State, etc. would have any factors that might lead to better recruiting. WE ARE KSTATE!! WE HAVE NICE FACILITIES!! WE SHOULD SIGN 4 AND 5 STAR TALENT!! 5 PLAYERS ON THE ALL BIG 12 TEAM IS NOT ENOUGH!! I DEMAND MORE TALENT!! I WANT TO WIN THE STAR WARS!!! (timely pun :)
So again, we underachieved, then?
.592 winning percentage over 3 seasons , so I guess the lazy ass recruiting is working.
Post by: purplehaze on December 18, 2017, 04:06:30 PM
Keep poking fun at those absurd facilities, Whisker...QuoteMost interesting about the study's findings, however, is the important role that a campus' facilities play to a recruit's decision. A recruit's opinion of a team's playing facilities ranked as the fourth most important factor, while campus living facilities and team facilities ranked sixth and eighth, respectively.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciajessop/2012/12/14/the-surprising-factors-driving-college-football-recruits-decision/#54b350e8411aQuote“This is going to help us out tremendously,” Braet said. “With the new facility and what all we have now, it should help us in recruiting a great deal. It has put us now where we should be, with our facilities matching the way our team plays. I really think this is going to take us to the next level.”
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article31125119.htmlQuoteThe majority of them are going to ask about your facilities,” Levine said. “Families want to know what kind of venues they’ll be sitting in watching their child play for four or five years. The young men we recruit naturally wanna to see the locker room, see the stadium, see the field.”
http://thedailycougar.com/2014/11/19/campus-facilities-impact-recruiting/
Fourth (and Eighth) most important factor to a recruit: CHECK!
Pro Tip: Most recruits have more than one reason for picking a school.
WHAT??!???!?????!!!???? You mean like proximity to their home/family? I don't get it. Makes no sense why Texas, FSU, Bama, Ohio State, etc. would have any factors that might lead to better recruiting. WE ARE KSTATE!! WE HAVE NICE FACILITIES!! WE SHOULD SIGN 4 AND 5 STAR TALENT!! 5 PLAYERS ON THE ALL BIG 12 TEAM IS NOT ENOUGH!! I DEMAND MORE TALENT!! I WANT TO WIN THE STAR WARS!!! (timely pun :)
So again, we underachieved, then?
.592 winning percentage over 3 seasons , so I guess the lazy ass recruiting is working.
Bill's overall winning % is .655 so really not that far off, .631 in pt 2, .666 in pt 1. Ya we are not doing as well as we should, especially this year, but we are by no means doing awful. I don't think talent is the main reason we lost close games the last 2 years, our team talent is comparable to 2011, play-calling and game management have been "worse" in comparison to our talent imo.
Post by: michigancat on December 18, 2017, 04:31:28 PM
Post by: pissclams on December 18, 2017, 04:42:29 PM
Post by: CHONGS on December 18, 2017, 04:45:31 PM
I think Bill's 93 record on for 1.0 is a better comparison for 1.0 vs. 2.0. I will not do the math on this.Against P5 competition:
Bill 1.0 -> 58.5%
Bill 1.0 (1993-2005) -> 66.7%
Bill 2.0 -> 57.0%
Post by: michigancat on December 18, 2017, 04:50:43 PM
I think Bill's 93 record on for 1.0 is a better comparison for 1.0 vs. 2.0. I will not do the math on this.Against P5 competition:
Bill 1.0 -> 58.5%
Bill 1.0 (1993-2005) -> 66.7%
Bill 2.0 -> 57.0%
yeah still surprisingly close. just like 1 win/year
Post by: Steffy08 on December 18, 2017, 04:55:43 PM
I think Bill's 93 record on for 1.0 is a better comparison for 1.0 vs. 2.0. I will not do the math on this.Against P5 competition:
Bill 1.0 -> 58.5%
Bill 1.0 (1993-2005) -> 66.7%
Bill 2.0 -> 57.0%
We generally had better assistant coaches in 1.0, and we were ahead of the curve in seeing the value of JUCO players.
Post by: CHONGS on December 18, 2017, 05:04:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/bruNuB1.png)
Plotted here is the cumulative point differential.
Post by: CHONGS on December 18, 2017, 05:10:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/VSnwNzC.png)
(avg margin of victory over P5 team)
Finally:
(https://i.imgur.com/NmHHgMa.png)
(win % against P5 teams)
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 18, 2017, 05:14:15 PM
Post by: everyone shut up on December 18, 2017, 05:24:15 PM
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 18, 2017, 05:27:30 PM
Jesus, no one would be bitching if we won 10 games this season.
That's funny. I assume you mean until signing day?
Post by: Joker on December 18, 2017, 06:24:21 PM
We certainly stumbled in a few games this year...games we certainly should have won. You can attribute it to whatever you want, but the lazy thing is to say talent. The fact of the matter is that we had more talent than normal, we just underperformed at some crucial times that cost us games. Honestly though we'd still be having this stupid "recruiting" and "bill needs to retire" conversation had we won 2 and probably even 3 more games this year. And that's what irritates me. We had a good year, not a great year and we were competitive in all but one game.
This whole "recruiting" conversation stemmed from you having an issue with the statement that Brent Venables is a better recruiter than Sean Snyder.
Good grief, man.
Post by: ChiComCat on December 18, 2017, 07:26:56 PM
Post by: pissclams on December 18, 2017, 07:35:46 PM
I got a question for Whisker: If it’s not recruiting and you’re convinced Snyder is on par with Saban and Meyer, why aren’t we winning more games?wb gets lost in his own arguments a lot
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 18, 2017, 07:37:10 PM
I got a question for Whisker: If it’s not recruiting and you’re convinced Snyder is on par with Saban and Meyer, why aren’t we winning more games?
You have communicated the problem perfectly in your question. Why aren't we recruiting like Alabama? Why aren't we winning like Ohio State? We're KSU dammit, we have all of the potential and opportunity to recruit and win NC's as those teams. If you believe this, you are a fool. Unfortunately there are many fools in our fanbase.
Post by: CHONGS on December 18, 2017, 08:00:17 PM
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 18, 2017, 08:01:54 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 18, 2017, 08:12:48 PM
Post by: CHONGS on December 18, 2017, 08:15:46 PM
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 18, 2017, 08:21:07 PM
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 18, 2017, 08:24:12 PM
Oklahoma has 4 million people and supports 2 thriving football teams with talent from all over the country you dipshit.
4 million people and 30, 3 star or higher prospects in 2017 with over 40 recruits that will sign D1 scholarships......dipshit.
This group is thicker than i thought.
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 18, 2017, 08:25:37 PM
It's truly amazing how quickly I've grown to hate Whisker Biscuit's tuck-ass bullshit
It's gotta grate on ya. I'll give it a break. :ksu:
Post by: everyone shut up on December 18, 2017, 09:30:20 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on December 18, 2017, 09:45:27 PM
Post by: Katpappy on December 18, 2017, 10:04:31 PM
Post by: DQ12 on December 18, 2017, 10:21:32 PM
Post by: Trim on December 18, 2017, 11:20:52 PM
I got a question for Whisker: If it’s not recruiting and you’re convinced Snyder is on par with Saban and Meyer, why aren’t we winning more games?
Quote
The players under-perform in the games we lose.
Post by: DOD Take 2 on December 18, 2017, 11:54:00 PM
It's truly amazing how quickly I've grown to hate Whisker Biscuit's tuck-ass bullshit
He’s the dollar store MIR with none of the ability to back up his thoughts
Post by: Demo158 on December 19, 2017, 01:42:39 AM
Location and population mean jack crap when it comes to recruiting. A successful coach who wins games and has a bit of charisma can make a program thrive anywhere in the US of A, and recruit top tier talent while doing so. If it were all about location and population, New York, Florida, Illinois, and California would have the most successful college football programs in the country year in and year out. Clearly this is not the case.Oklahoma has 4 million people and supports 2 thriving football teams with talent from all over the country you dipshit.
4 million people and 30, 3 star or higher prospects in 2017 with over 40 recruits that will sign D1 scholarships......dipshit.
This group is thicker than i thought.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 19, 2017, 01:58:50 AM
Regarding _Fan's question: I think our recruiting should be on par with Oklahoma State's. I think we're roughly a top 35 program and that having recruiting classes that rank in the 60s and 70s and 80s is disgraceful.
[youtube]https://youtu.be/or6mav6QKg4?t=41s[/youtube]
Post by: meow meow on December 19, 2017, 08:29:09 AM
Also, i was surprised to learn from WB that Montana, Wyoming, and New Mexico are in P5 conferences
Post by: Cire on December 19, 2017, 08:35:21 AM
We should have played thompson after Ertz got banged up the first time.
That is the single biggest WTF of the whole season.
That is not to say delton was bad by any means but he can't do what Thompson can do.
Maybe that is eye test talking
Post by: wetwillie on December 19, 2017, 08:40:31 AM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 19, 2017, 09:08:58 AM
Guys, I don't normally do this, but I think I am smelling some squawk around here.
I think that odor is Clone, actually.
Post by: deputy dawg on December 19, 2017, 09:28:27 AM
Oklahoma has 4 million people and supports 2 thriving football teams with talent from all over the country you dipshit.
In all fairness, Oklahoma is a lot different than Kansas. In the fall, one thing you'll notice is that high school football on Friday night television is very prominent there, a lot like Texas. Football is more culturally embedded in OK than in KS, and is a more elevated priority than here.
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 19, 2017, 09:44:00 AM
Now, the arctic temperatures of the flint hills, those will always be at play.
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 19, 2017, 10:15:44 AM
Regarding _Fan's question: I think our recruiting should be on par with Oklahoma State's. I think we're roughly a top 35 program and that having recruiting classes that rank in the 60s and 70s and 80s is disgraceful.
[youtube]https://youtu.be/or6mav6QKg4?t=41s[/youtube]
The disconnect here is that when measured by a means other than web-nerds, our recruiting classes easily perform in the top 35. If all you are wanting is the web-nerds to rank the classes higher, than i would agree, a different coach can likely improve our recruiting rankings, but to what end? If your goal is to bring in players that perform such that the team is successful and players obtain post season recognition, I'm not sure how you can argue that we aren't doing just fine. You can't honestly say that our web-nerd recruiting rankings reflect our talent. It just isn't so.
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 19, 2017, 10:17:22 AM
I bet Scott Frost will be able to get some recruits to come to frigid Lincoln, Nebraska, a state that also lacks significant D1 talent.
Also, i was surprised to learn from WB that Montana, Wyoming, and New Mexico are in P5 conferences
Reading is hard...i get it. Re-read my post until you understand. Look up the big words if necessary.
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 19, 2017, 10:20:28 AM
Do people know what airports are? MHK's location isn't as big of an issue as it was 25 years ago.
Now, the arctic temperatures of the flint hills, those will always be at play.
I love the airport argument! Most players will generally fly their immediate and extended family in for game days now that we have a nice airport with flights and such. Don't forget facilities! :gocho:
Post by: CHONGS on December 19, 2017, 10:20:46 AM
Post by: PIPE on December 19, 2017, 10:58:03 AM
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 19, 2017, 11:05:16 AM
Will the cats have the last ranked class? KU currently has a better class than us. Let that sink in..... :buh-bye:
dude, K-State is 14-14 in conference and 15-18 against P5's the last 3 years (dec of '14), they don't need to recruit better.
Post by: ChiComCat on December 19, 2017, 11:23:24 AM
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 19, 2017, 11:36:01 AM
Jordy Nelson exists so all walk-ons should be assumed to be second rounders
In my mind Jordy is a recruiting miss. Certainly missed identifying his talent or he would have been offered a scholarship.
Post by: DQ12 on December 19, 2017, 11:45:36 AM
i don't like this whiskerbiscuit guy.
Quote
If your goal is to bring in players that perform such that the team is successful and players obtain post season recognition, I'm not sure how you can argue that we aren't doing just fine.My goal is to compete for conference titles every once in a while, and the last time we even sniffed the conference championship race was 2014, a year we got completely out-classed by TCU and Baylor, the two legitimate contenders.
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 19, 2017, 11:55:07 AM
Curious, how do you get a top 35 rating by using post season accolades? You just counting up All Americans + All Conference?
I'm not sure why this is so difficult, i'm guessing i'm just getting trolled. Regardless, the web nerds ranked our 2013 recruiting class dead last in the Big 12. The 2012 class was ranked 9th our of 10, slightly ahead of KU. Is that truly reflective of our talent and if so, how do we get 4 players on the All Big 12 first team (more than our "share")? Or should the quality of our recruiting efforts be measured AFTER the completion of eligibility for the recruited players? Which is a more accurate reflection of ability to "recruit" talent?
I guess validation by web nerds is what is clearly the most important thing to you guys. It's just not to me and thankfully not to Bill.
Post by: CHONGS on December 19, 2017, 11:59:34 AM
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 19, 2017, 12:06:16 PM
Ok but you said top 35. I was curious how you got that number.
Rectal extraction. Not sure how you would rank the class 4-5 years after...much easier when the webnerds assign a "number grade" to each recruit based on their arbitrary system. Would be an interesting exercise.
Post by: MadCat on December 19, 2017, 12:18:39 PM
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 19, 2017, 12:23:13 PM
He's dumber than all crap, but bless his K-State loving heart.
Post by: kso_FAN on December 19, 2017, 12:28:44 PM
http://www.espn.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/119830/bill-snyders-unconventional-recruiting-strategy-continues-to-defy-and-win
http://www.espn.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/89520/kansas-state-walk-on-u
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2140118-how-college-footballs-most-underrated-coach-keeps-kansas-state-relevant
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 19, 2017, 12:51:50 PM
I think I like WB.
He's dumber than all crap, but bless his K-State loving heart.
Your validation completes me :blush: Friends? :cheers:
Post by: CHONGS on December 19, 2017, 01:20:44 PM
The way Snyder has operated is no secret. People have been writing about it consistently during 2.0. It is what it is.Yes. Every strategy has is strengths and weaknesses. I have said in other threads (I think) that the weakness with this strategy is that we don't necessarily have the
http://www.espn.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/119830/bill-snyders-unconventional-recruiting-strategy-continues-to-defy-and-win
http://www.espn.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/89520/kansas-state-walk-on-u
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2140118-how-college-footballs-most-underrated-coach-keeps-kansas-state-relevant
1) depth to withstand a full season of college football and still compete at the highest level at the end of the year
2) playmaker(s) who can overcome bad/high risk playcalls/situations/mistakes made by coaches and teammates
It was hard for me to think we had any thing close to a playoff caliber team this year because we didn't have that nameable NFL talent (and as it ended up we were clearly not). I should go back, but I imagine that every playoff team (and then before that every team in the BCS champ game) had at least 1 NFL caliber player in every group (OL ,DL, DB, LB, Skill positions) if not more.
For (1) that's where we will likely never get on the same level as the big P5 schools. It's unlikely we can ever build that depth because we lack the resources and the talent density to do so. That (plus having the best coaches in the sport) is what makes Alabama/Ohios State machines, and it lets programs like UF and Michigan recover quickly from coaching disasters. But if we do want to win the conference again or make the playoffs we will need a combination of (2), great coaching, and quite a bit of luck.
Post by: cfbandyman on December 19, 2017, 01:51:53 PM
The way Snyder has operated is no secret. People have been writing about it consistently during 2.0. It is what it is.Yes. Every strategy has is strengths and weaknesses. I have said in other threads (I think) that the weakness with this strategy is that we don't necessarily have the
http://www.espn.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/119830/bill-snyders-unconventional-recruiting-strategy-continues-to-defy-and-win
http://www.espn.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/89520/kansas-state-walk-on-u
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2140118-how-college-footballs-most-underrated-coach-keeps-kansas-state-relevant
1) depth to withstand a full season of college football and still compete at the highest level at the end of the year
2) playmaker(s) who can overcome bad/high risk playcalls/situations/mistakes made by coaches and teammates
It was hard for me to think we had any thing close to a playoff caliber team this year because we didn't have that nameable NFL talent (and as it ended up we were clearly not). I should go back, but I imagine that every playoff team (and then before that every team in the BCS champ game) had at least 1 NFL caliber player in every group (OL ,DL, DB, LB, Skill positions) if not more.
For (1) that's where we will likely never get on the same level as the big P5 schools. It's unlikely we can ever build that depth because we lack the resources and the talent density to do so. That (plus having the best coaches in the sport) is what makes Alabama/Ohios State machines, and it lets programs like UF and Michigan recover quickly from coaching disasters. But if we do want to win the conference again or make the playoffs we will need a combination of (2), great coaching, and quite a bit of luck.
We were very close to that in 2012 in terms of having a NFL player in each group (Lockett-WR, BJ/Lucas OL, AB -LB, Meshak was close on the DL, secondary would've been our biggest question mark but Malone/Chapman/One Y were very good) and CK was a great college QB.
I buy the Bama/tOSU/Michigan etc machine thing. But other schools can have a season like that every 5-10 years, and we are close to that. Luck wasn't on our side in 2012 for 1 game and it cost us the shot against a good but not great ND team.
Post by: kso_FAN on December 19, 2017, 02:00:56 PM
The way Snyder has operated is no secret. People have been writing about it consistently during 2.0. It is what it is.Yes. Every strategy has is strengths and weaknesses. I have said in other threads (I think) that the weakness with this strategy is that we don't necessarily have the
http://www.espn.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/119830/bill-snyders-unconventional-recruiting-strategy-continues-to-defy-and-win
http://www.espn.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/89520/kansas-state-walk-on-u
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2140118-how-college-footballs-most-underrated-coach-keeps-kansas-state-relevant
1) depth to withstand a full season of college football and still compete at the highest level at the end of the year
2) playmaker(s) who can overcome bad/high risk playcalls/situations/mistakes made by coaches and teammates
It was hard for me to think we had any thing close to a playoff caliber team this year because we didn't have that nameable NFL talent (and as it ended up we were clearly not). I should go back, but I imagine that every playoff team (and then before that every team in the BCS champ game) had at least 1 NFL caliber player in every group (OL ,DL, DB, LB, Skill positions) if not more.
For (1) that's where we will likely never get on the same level as the big P5 schools. It's unlikely we can ever build that depth because we lack the resources and the talent density to do so. That (plus having the best coaches in the sport) is what makes Alabama/Ohios State machines, and it lets programs like UF and Michigan recover quickly from coaching disasters. But if we do want to win the conference again or make the playoffs we will need a combination of (2), great coaching, and quite a bit of luck.
I agree with everything you said there.
Post by: deputy dawg on December 19, 2017, 02:08:42 PM
Listening to the radio the other day (I know it's a different sport, but the comparison is still valid), it came out that Michael Jordan was ranked pretty low as a college recruit. Like not even in the top 200 players.
Post by: CHONGS on December 19, 2017, 02:32:19 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on December 19, 2017, 02:38:27 PM
Only tough decision is if we call "it" Bobby snyder or Billy stoops
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 19, 2017, 02:40:09 PM
Post by: CHONGS on December 19, 2017, 02:40:59 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on December 19, 2017, 02:43:28 PM
We really should look into the feasibility of using NBAF to make our coaches and football players for us instead of curing cow aids.
Shooter Jones, you getting this? This is exactly the type of forward thinking our AD needs
Post by: kso_FAN on December 19, 2017, 03:13:29 PM
It's not perfect, but if you include every team in college football I think you will find that recruiting rankings correlate quite well with winning (this has been shown several times). It's not sole determiner, but it's more important than I think some people want to admit.
You should do one of your charts with "recruiting rankings" or "number of 4/5 star recruits" compared to "wins". I'm fairly certain we would be an outlier.
Post by: CHONGS on December 19, 2017, 03:14:17 PM
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 19, 2017, 03:26:38 PM
It's not perfect, but if you include every team in college football I think you will find that recruiting rankings correlate quite well with winning (this has been shown several times). It's not sole determiner, but it's more important than I think some people want to admit.
You should do one of your charts with "recruiting rankings" or "number of 4/5 star recruits" compared to "wins". I'm fairly certain we would be an outlier.
So are we attributing this to Bill recruiting significantly better than the web-nerd rankings? Or is he simply that good at "coaching them up"?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 19, 2017, 03:33:12 PM
That's perfectly fine. I think we could probably go out and hire a good younger coach who will be happy to come to K-State and will pull off the same kind of numbers. The great thing about that, is that I know, I know down in my Flying Spaghetti Monster blessed soul that all the Snyderites will be fully supportive of a younger coach who is doing the 6-6/7-5/8-4 dance every year, because they're perfectly happy with it now.
Plus the program will be fun again, and won't be held hostage anymore by the Snyder's.
Post by: michigancat on December 19, 2017, 03:36:53 PM
Why wouldn't Snyder's strategy apply to higher rated players? Like steal a three star from OSU that we see as a five star instead of stealing two stars from the MAC that we see as a four star. We'd still be an outlier, we'd just have more wins.It's not perfect, but if you include every team in college football I think you will find that recruiting rankings correlate quite well with winning (this has been shown several times). It's not sole determiner, but it's more important than I think some people want to admit.
You should do one of your charts with "recruiting rankings" or "number of 4/5 star recruits" compared to "wins". I'm fairly certain we would be an outlier.
Post by: BackPayne on December 19, 2017, 04:01:52 PM
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 19, 2017, 04:04:46 PM
We really should look into the feasibility of using NBAF to make our coaches and football players for us instead of curing cow aids.
Shooter Jones, you getting this? This is exactly the type of forward thinking our AD needs
Well, do you think our AD that is currently out of office until the 3rd of January and super pumped the bowl game is the day after Christmas so there isn't a pep rally and it's only a 1 day/night trip for him, isn't forward thinking?
Post by: MakeItRain on December 19, 2017, 06:15:46 PM
Regarding _Fan's question: I think our recruiting should be on par with Oklahoma State's. I think we're roughly a top 35 program and that having recruiting classes that rank in the 60s and 70s and 80s is disgraceful.
[youtube]https://youtu.be/or6mav6QKg4?t=41s[/youtube]
The disconnect here is that when measured by a means other than web-nerds, our recruiting classes easily perform in the top 35. If all you are wanting is the web-nerds to rank the classes higher, than i would agree, a different coach can likely improve our recruiting rankings, but to what end? If your goal is to bring in players that perform such that the team is successful and players obtain post season recognition, I'm not sure how you can argue that we aren't doing just fine. You can't honestly say that our web-nerd recruiting rankings reflect our talent. It just isn't so.
I already spoke to this. The outperforming of higher classes can be attributed to development. The difference between an 8 win program in Snyder 2.0 and a 10 win program in Snyder 1.0 is that we aren't developing talent with a higher baseline. The thought that better talent can't be developed is wrong. Saban is a better coach than Jim Mora because he's better at developing talented players.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 19, 2017, 06:22:06 PM
It looks like ol' Whisker is down with 4-5-6 losses a season.
That's perfectly fine. I think we could probably go out and hire a good younger coach who will be happy to come to K-State and will pull off the same kind of numbers. The great thing about that, is that I know, I know down in my Flying Spaghetti Monster blessed soul that all the Snyderites will be fully supportive of a younger coach who is doing the 6-6/7-5/8-4 dance every year, because they're perfectly happy with it now.
Plus the program will be fun again, and won't be held hostage anymore by the Snyder's.
That isn't fair, the ceiling for this program as it's constituted now, isn't 8 wins, that's the baseline expectation. I know you're doing your thing, but no one is happy with 6 win seasons.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 19, 2017, 06:26:24 PM
It looks like ol' Whisker is down with 4-5-6 losses a season.
That's perfectly fine. I think we could probably go out and hire a good younger coach who will be happy to come to K-State and will pull off the same kind of numbers. The great thing about that, is that I know, I know down in my Flying Spaghetti Monster blessed soul that all the Snyderites will be fully supportive of a younger coach who is doing the 6-6/7-5/8-4 dance every year, because they're perfectly happy with it now.
Plus the program will be fun again, and won't be held hostage anymore by the Snyder's.
That isn't fair, the ceiling for this program as it's constituted now, isn't 8 wins, that's the baseline expectation. I know you're doing your thing, but no one is happy with 6 win seasons.
We are .592 over the last 3 seasons. At any real football school that’s hot seat, not “let coach decide”.
Clearly there’s enough support in all the right places and/or Kstate has a huge leadership problem.
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 19, 2017, 06:38:02 PM
Regarding _Fan's question: I think our recruiting should be on par with Oklahoma State's. I think we're roughly a top 35 program and that having recruiting classes that rank in the 60s and 70s and 80s is disgraceful.
[youtube]https://youtu.be/or6mav6QKg4?t=41s[/youtube]
The disconnect here is that when measured by a means other than web-nerds, our recruiting classes easily perform in the top 35. If all you are wanting is the web-nerds to rank the classes higher, than i would agree, a different coach can likely improve our recruiting rankings, but to what end? If your goal is to bring in players that perform such that the team is successful and players obtain post season recognition, I'm not sure how you can argue that we aren't doing just fine. You can't honestly say that our web-nerd recruiting rankings reflect our talent. It just isn't so.
I already spoke to this. The outperforming of higher classes can be attributed to development. The difference between an 8 win program in Snyder 2.0 and a 10 win program in Snyder 1.0 is that we aren't developing talent with a higher baseline. The thought that better talent can't be developed is wrong. Saban is a better coach than Jim Mora because he's better at developing talented players.
I agree for the most part but 1.0 was helped tremendously by JUCO players who were shunned by most schools. We can't hand pick the JUCO ranks like we could in 1.0 (especially mid 1.0). Some of our best players were JUCO guys and that pipeline is pretty much gone. We were definitely more talented in 1.0,partly for that reason.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 19, 2017, 07:51:45 PM
It looks like ol' Whisker is down with 4-5-6 losses a season.
That's perfectly fine. I think we could probably go out and hire a good younger coach who will be happy to come to K-State and will pull off the same kind of numbers. The great thing about that, is that I know, I know down in my Flying Spaghetti Monster blessed soul that all the Snyderites will be fully supportive of a younger coach who is doing the 6-6/7-5/8-4 dance every year, because they're perfectly happy with it now.
Plus the program will be fun again, and won't be held hostage anymore by the Snyder's.
That isn't fair, the ceiling for this program as it's constituted now, isn't 8 wins, that's the baseline expectation. I know you're doing your thing, but no one is happy with 6 win seasons.
We are .592 over the last 3 seasons. At any real football school that’s hot seat, not “let coach decide”.
Clearly there’s enough support in all the right places and/or Kstate has a huge leadership problem.
No dax, that's simply incorrect, it's a wrong opinion. Show me the coach fired from a school with LHC Bill Snyder's resume simply from 2009 to today. Outside of the top 5-10 programs you absolutely won't find one. If we want to commit the resources to being more than a 8 win program then we can have those matching expectations, but we don't.
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 19, 2017, 08:46:45 PM
And don’t tell me A&M is a top 5-10 program.
Post by: michigancat on December 19, 2017, 08:58:55 PM
It looks like ol' Whisker is down with 4-5-6 losses a season.
That's perfectly fine. I think we could probably go out and hire a good younger coach who will be happy to come to K-State and will pull off the same kind of numbers. The great thing about that, is that I know, I know down in my Flying Spaghetti Monster blessed soul that all the Snyderites will be fully supportive of a younger coach who is doing the 6-6/7-5/8-4 dance every year, because they're perfectly happy with it now.
Plus the program will be fun again, and won't be held hostage anymore by the Snyder's.
That isn't fair, the ceiling for this program as it's constituted now, isn't 8 wins, that's the baseline expectation. I know you're doing your thing, but no one is happy with 6 win seasons.
We are .592 over the last 3 seasons. At any real football school that’s hot seat, not “let coach decide”.
Clearly there’s enough support in all the right places and/or Kstate has a huge leadership problem.
No dax, that's simply incorrect, it's a wrong opinion. Show me the coach fired from a school with LHC Bill Snyder's resume simply from 2009 to today. Outside of the top 5-10 programs you absolutely won't find one. If we want to commit the resources to being more than a 8 win program then we can have those matching expectations, but we don't.
Todd Graham and Jim Mora are the best examples, they are at least in the ballpark. And maybe Mike Leach.
I was going to say Lane Kiffin and Mack Brown but they were fired from top 10 programs. So yeah, you pretty much nailed it. Coaches like Snyder probably shouldn't get fired.
Post by: wetwillie on December 19, 2017, 09:01:34 PM
Kevin Sumlin has been better than Bill since 2009.
And don’t tell me A&M is a top 5-10 program.
They have the biggest athletic budget in the country and just paid 75 million for a coach. I think resources wise they are in the conversation.
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 19, 2017, 09:04:50 PM
His last 8 years are pretty similar to 2.0
Post by: MakeItRain on December 19, 2017, 11:02:33 PM
Honest question, how did Beamer go out at VT? I know they put a good plan together, but not sure if he was pushed to do so or if it was his idea.
His last 8 years are pretty similar to 2.0
It was his idea, he made the decision in season.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 19, 2017, 11:14:20 PM
Kevin Sumlin has been better than Bill since 2009.
And don’t tell me A&M is a top 5-10 program.
They have the biggest athletic budget in the country and just paid 75 million for a coach. I think resources wise they are in the conversation.
They don't have the biggest budget in the country, and they have fun with numbers on their revenues. So aggy.
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 20, 2017, 12:17:56 AM
Thats literally every NFL player to ever play at KSU plus guys like CK. KSU pretty much never signs a kid out of HS that is expected to be an NFL player, nor should they. For every player KSU sends to the combine, there are several programs that feel like they missed on that kid.Why wouldn't Snyder's strategy apply to higher rated players? Like steal a three star from OSU that we see as a five star instead of stealing two stars from the MAC that we see as a four star. We'd still be an outlier, we'd just have more wins.It's not perfect, but if you include every team in college football I think you will find that recruiting rankings correlate quite well with winning (this has been shown several times). It's not sole determiner, but it's more important than I think some people want to admit.
You should do one of your charts with "recruiting rankings" or "number of 4/5 star recruits" compared to "wins". I'm fairly certain we would be an outlier.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 20, 2017, 05:45:05 AM
Thats literally every NFL player to ever play at KSU plus guys like CK. KSU pretty much never signs a kid out of HS that is expected to be an NFL player, nor should they. For every player KSU sends to the combine, there are several programs that feel like they missed on that kid.Why wouldn't Snyder's strategy apply to higher rated players? Like steal a three star from OSU that we see as a five star instead of stealing two stars from the MAC that we see as a four star. We'd still be an outlier, we'd just have more wins.It's not perfect, but if you include every team in college football I think you will find that recruiting rankings correlate quite well with winning (this has been shown several times). It's not sole determiner, but it's more important than I think some people want to admit.
You should do one of your charts with "recruiting rankings" or "number of 4/5 star recruits" compared to "wins". I'm fairly certain we would be an outlier.
Yep, avoid can’t miss NFL prospects at all costs.
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 20, 2017, 09:14:07 AM
I didn't watch them besides the Clones game and the Ohio State beat down, but looks like his O was complete besides those two games.
Just thought I'd mention it as something to keep an eye on.
Post by: 'taterblast on December 20, 2017, 01:40:02 PM
https://twitter.com/Matthew_D_Hall/status/943549596118274051
Post by: kso_FAN on December 20, 2017, 01:44:19 PM
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on December 20, 2017, 01:49:13 PM
Post by: BackPayne on December 20, 2017, 01:50:13 PM
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 20, 2017, 01:55:50 PM
I actually enjoyed that. Continue to surprise me, 'Stang. Please.
Post by: 'taterblast on December 20, 2017, 02:35:24 PM
https://twitter.com/dennisdoddcbs/status/943579887390117888
Post by: PIPE on December 20, 2017, 02:49:04 PM
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 20, 2017, 02:51:41 PM
Jeesh this is just the best timing to say something so stupid. Our program is fracked
Who would you consider K-State's top candidates? Now and as of a month ago.
Leavitt, Sean, Beilema, Venzy.. Are all still just as available as they were weeks ago.
I'd throw in a guy like Seth LittreLL still being attainable as well.
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 20, 2017, 02:52:26 PM
Post by: kso_FAN on December 20, 2017, 02:57:06 PM
i remember having a discussion once about the relative age of our classes and how they trended younger than others. like if someone doesn't turn 18 until late spring their senior year of highschool or maybe even the summer after, it seemed like we were targeting those players. like, we may bump someone up a star if they are young or something and value them more than other schools would. am I crazy or did we discuss that?
I don't remember, but this absolutely sounds like a Bill thing.
Post by: 'taterblast on December 20, 2017, 02:58:16 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 20, 2017, 03:00:20 PM
imagine being a recruit that just signed and reading that headline
If you sign up to play football for a man as old as Bill, knowing he has cancer, you can't be too surprised by that headline.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 20, 2017, 03:32:39 PM
He's 78 years old, of course he has no idea how long he's going to be coaching
Post by: MakeItRain on December 20, 2017, 03:33:03 PM
Post by: Woogy on December 20, 2017, 03:49:36 PM
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on December 20, 2017, 06:19:05 PM
Post by: Muldoon on December 20, 2017, 06:43:01 PM
Post by: steve dave on December 20, 2017, 06:45:58 PM
Post by: kso_FAN on December 20, 2017, 06:53:31 PM
i'm close to accepting my L on the topic of snyder and his handling of potential retirement. this isn't good.
https://twitter.com/dennisdoddcbs/status/943579887390117888
Yet in the same interview he comments about being close to hiring a 10th assistant. Why would he do that if he wasn't coming back?
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/e1ebecead3c1b9e31bdbc3b0843c31ff/tenor.gif?itemid=4331496)
Post by: MadCat on December 20, 2017, 07:06:56 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 20, 2017, 07:11:05 PM
irl he's trying to outlast whoever won't hire his son to coach the football team. he'll probably retire mid season to force sean into the job. I'm not saying I'm pro or anti sean. just a fwiw.
I say we make him a deal, if he can outlive gene Taylor at KSU we give Sean the job. If he doesn't, he donates his estate to the KSU AD.
Post by: Pete on December 20, 2017, 07:15:54 PM
irl he's trying to outlast whoever won't hire his son to coach the football team. he'll probably retire mid season to force sean into the job. I'm not saying I'm pro or anti sean. just a fwiw.
I say we make him a deal, if he can outlive gene Taylor at KSU we give Sean the job. If he doesn't, he donates his estate to the KSU AD.
Agreed. It's the only fair way to handle this.
Post by: steve dave on December 20, 2017, 07:30:18 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 20, 2017, 07:54:20 PM
Not too long ago somebody posted some supposed insidery information about how detached Bill was from recruits and current players. Said he rarely, if ever, interacted with the current players any more. I can't find the post but have thought a lot about it lately. If true, I think it's likely a deliberate move by Bill to ensure there's not a sudden rush out the door when he hangs it up creating an even bigger talent vacuum than necessary. I think this season is it for him and I think he's been intentionally setting the conditions for this move for the past year or two.
Bruh, he did three in home visits in the last three weeks.
Post by: Muldoon on December 20, 2017, 09:11:48 PM
Ok, but that doesn't really invalidate my theory. I don't follow his itinerary so I have no idea who he actually visited but I'm thinking three visits in three weeks prior to the first early signing period is nothing other than window dressing. The KSU recruiting sucks narrative aside, why NOT make a visit to get a kid to sign and then hang it up after they've already signed an LOI? If I'm not mistaken, they have to sit out a year or something if they decommit after signing an LOI.Not too long ago somebody posted some supposed insidery information about how detached Bill was from recruits and current players. Said he rarely, if ever, interacted with the current players any more. I can't find the post but have thought a lot about it lately. If true, I think it's likely a deliberate move by Bill to ensure there's not a sudden rush out the door when he hangs it up creating an even bigger talent vacuum than necessary. I think this season is it for him and I think he's been intentionally setting the conditions for this move for the past year or two.
Bruh, he did three in home visits in the last three weeks.
I think the biggest threat of an exodus is with the players already on the roster hence the lack of interaction. He's conditioning them for when he calls it quits. It'll be no big deal to them because they haven't seen or heard much from the guy in a long time anyway. It also seems to me that most of the pictures, tweets, etc. have featured the commits with the recruiters (Seiler, Coleman, Dickey, even Sean) and less Bill than in years past. Again, I think this is intentional.
Post by: MadCat on December 20, 2017, 09:23:14 PM
The Artful Doddger
Post by: Trim on December 21, 2017, 01:17:27 AM
Quote
His car is there when I get here in the morning and it is here when I leave at night.
http://cjonline.com/sports/sports-columns/catzone/2017-12-20/kevin-haskin-snyder-k-state-administration-must-thoroughly
Post by: MakeItRain on December 21, 2017, 02:37:19 AM
Ok, but that doesn't really invalidate my theory. I don't follow his itinerary so I have no idea who he actually visited but I'm thinking three visits in three weeks prior to the first early signing period is nothing other than window dressing. The KSU recruiting sucks narrative aside, why NOT make a visit to get a kid to sign and then hang it up after they've already signed an LOI? If I'm not mistaken, they have to sit out a year or something if they decommit after signing an LOI.Not too long ago somebody posted some supposed insidery information about how detached Bill was from recruits and current players. Said he rarely, if ever, interacted with the current players any more. I can't find the post but have thought a lot about it lately. If true, I think it's likely a deliberate move by Bill to ensure there's not a sudden rush out the door when he hangs it up creating an even bigger talent vacuum than necessary. I think this season is it for him and I think he's been intentionally setting the conditions for this move for the past year or two.
Bruh, he did three in home visits in the last three weeks.
I think the biggest threat of an exodus is with the players already on the roster hence the lack of interaction. He's conditioning them for when he calls it quits. It'll be no big deal to them because they haven't seen or heard much from the guy in a long time anyway. It also seems to me that most of the pictures, tweets, etc. have featured the commits with the recruiters (Seiler, Coleman, Dickey, even Sean) and less Bill than in years past. Again, I think this is intentional.
It seems you have your idea of how things are and that's how it's going to be, no matter what. Him doing the visits do invalidate your opinion that he's less involved because he hasn't done that in years. That's not to say he won't retire but he isn't less involved at least right now. And you are kind of mistaken about the NLOI. The signed players will be immediately eligible if K-State grants them releases, we did for a couple of players in 2005.
As to your point about the recruiting photos, the recruits taking photos with assistants is the norm not only at K-State but at every single school in the nation, at every level of football, including NAIA. Those relationships are formed with the recruiter and the head coach is the closer. Most coaches do more, many more home visits than Bill, but like I said, he actually did them this season. He very well may retire but your indicators are way off.
Post by: 8manpick on December 21, 2017, 06:53:33 AM
Being completely serious (and not knowing a lot about high level recruiting), to me 3 seems like a really low number for a P5 coach in the 3 weeks leading up to signing day.Not too long ago somebody posted some supposed insidery information about how detached Bill was from recruits and current players. Said he rarely, if ever, interacted with the current players any more. I can't find the post but have thought a lot about it lately. If true, I think it's likely a deliberate move by Bill to ensure there's not a sudden rush out the door when he hangs it up creating an even bigger talent vacuum than necessary. I think this season is it for him and I think he's been intentionally setting the conditions for this move for the past year or two.
Bruh, he did three in home visits in the last three weeks.
Post by: manpow5 on December 21, 2017, 07:42:12 AM
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/its-clear-now-more-than-ever-bill-snyder-is-holding-kansas-state-hostage/
Post by: wetwillie on December 21, 2017, 07:47:36 AM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 21, 2017, 08:01:08 AM
Being completely serious (and not knowing a lot about high level recruiting), to me 3 seems like a really low number for a P5 coach in the 3 weeks leading up to signing day.Not too long ago somebody posted some supposed insidery information about how detached Bill was from recruits and current players. Said he rarely, if ever, interacted with the current players any more. I can't find the post but have thought a lot about it lately. If true, I think it's likely a deliberate move by Bill to ensure there's not a sudden rush out the door when he hangs it up creating an even bigger talent vacuum than necessary. I think this season is it for him and I think he's been intentionally setting the conditions for this move for the past year or two.
Bruh, he did three in home visits in the last three weeks.
It is, but not for him
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 21, 2017, 08:44:49 AM
Being completely serious (and not knowing a lot about high level recruiting), to me 3 seems like a really low number for a P5 coach in the 3 weeks leading up to signing day.Not too long ago somebody posted some supposed insidery information about how detached Bill was from recruits and current players. Said he rarely, if ever, interacted with the current players any more. I can't find the post but have thought a lot about it lately. If true, I think it's likely a deliberate move by Bill to ensure there's not a sudden rush out the door when he hangs it up creating an even bigger talent vacuum than necessary. I think this season is it for him and I think he's been intentionally setting the conditions for this move for the past year or two.
Bruh, he did three in home visits in the last three weeks.
It is, but not for him
Yup, I think he had 2 or 3 in the last 4 years before a few weeks ago.
Post by: Joker on December 21, 2017, 09:10:23 AM
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 21, 2017, 09:29:03 AM
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 21, 2017, 09:32:10 AM
Okay, which GE-er works for CBS?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/its-clear-now-more-than-ever-bill-snyder-is-holding-kansas-state-hostage/
This article was LOL. Talked about how Bill's announcement would ruin the class. LOL. Ummmmm did we lose any commits?
Post by: deputy dawg on December 21, 2017, 10:10:58 AM
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 21, 2017, 10:15:09 AM
Post by: manpow5 on December 21, 2017, 10:16:25 AM
Okay, which GE-er works for CBS?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/its-clear-now-more-than-ever-bill-snyder-is-holding-kansas-state-hostage/
This article was LOL. Talked about how Bill's announcement would ruin the class. LOL. Ummmmm did we lose any commits?
I mean seriously, is your name Tate? You can tell us, we're family here.
Post by: ChiComCat on December 21, 2017, 10:22:16 AM
Okay, which GE-er works for CBS?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/its-clear-now-more-than-ever-bill-snyder-is-holding-kansas-state-hostage/
This article was LOL. Talked about how Bill's announcement would ruin the class. LOL. Ummmmm did we lose any commits?
LOL @ ruining our top 80 class
Post by: Joker on December 21, 2017, 10:32:40 AM
Okay, which GE-er works for CBS?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/its-clear-now-more-than-ever-bill-snyder-is-holding-kansas-state-hostage/
This article was LOL. Talked about how Bill's announcement would ruin the class. LOL. Ummmmm did we lose any commits?
Almost makes a guy wonder if things like facilities have a significant impact on a 17-year-old kid's decision making process.
Post by: sys on December 21, 2017, 11:40:44 AM
Bill will stay and be less involved, and cement Sean's position as HCIW. The only argument right now is whether Sean gets a 2 year deal (Bill opposes), or a 5 year deal (what Bill wants).
:excited:
Post by: deputy dawg on December 21, 2017, 02:10:57 PM
ITK?
The daughter of a former position coach from Snyder 1.0 lives near me, the dad says that Sean is likely a done deal, and the raging debate is the length of his contract. General Myers and Gene Taylor are both deferential to Bill, but is also leery of giving Sean too long of a leash. Thus the debate of a 2 year contract vs. a 5 year contract.
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 21, 2017, 02:13:26 PM
Okay, which GE-er works for CBS?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/its-clear-now-more-than-ever-bill-snyder-is-holding-kansas-state-hostage/
This article was LOL. Talked about how Bill's announcement would ruin the class. LOL. Ummmmm did we lose any commits?
LOL @ ruining our top 80 class
Exactly. We are the only D1 offer for most of those losers. Where the hell else are they gonna sign?
Post by: meow meow on December 21, 2017, 02:32:51 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 21, 2017, 02:40:35 PM
ITK?
The daughter of a former position coach from Snyder 1.0 lives near me, the dad says that Sean is likely a done deal, and the raging debate is the length of his contract. General Myers and Gene Taylor are both deferential to Bill, but is also leery of giving Sean too long of a leash. Thus the debate of a 2 year contract vs. a 5 year contract.
DD you're my guy so this isn't a slam at you, but I think you were fed some crap. I absolutely refuse to believe those two men are stupid enough to offer anyone a 2 year head coaching contract, that makes absolutely zero sense. Now if you told me they were debating about 5 versus 7 years I'd buy that, but offering any head coach a two year contract, especially in this scenario, is actually dumber than Kevin Keitzman contending that raising Currie level money for Kansas State is easy.
Post by: deputy dawg on December 21, 2017, 04:32:52 PM
ITK?
The daughter of a former position coach from Snyder 1.0 lives near me, the dad says that Sean is likely a done deal, and the raging debate is the length of his contract. General Myers and Gene Taylor are both deferential to Bill, but is also leery of giving Sean too long of a leash. Thus the debate of a 2 year contract vs. a 5 year contract.
DD you're my guy so this isn't a slam at you, but I think you were fed some crap. I absolutely refuse to believe those two men are stupid enough to offer anyone a 2 year head coaching contract, that makes absolutely zero sense. Now if you told me they were debating about 5 versus 7 years I'd buy that, but offering any head coach a two year contract, especially in this scenario, is actually dumber than Kevin Keitzman contending that raising Currie level money for Kansas State is easy.
You're probably right. I was focused on the "short leash" concept, which, under the circumstances, might be logical when it would normally not be. Sean is part of the "Snyder system", an outsider would take a couple of years to either learn/embrace the Snyder system, or implement their own system. 2 years could be rational for Sean in that scenario, despite the recruiting connotations.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 21, 2017, 04:43:44 PM
ITK?
The daughter of a former position coach from Snyder 1.0 lives near me, the dad says that Sean is likely a done deal, and the raging debate is the length of his contract. General Myers and Gene Taylor are both deferential to Bill, but is also leery of giving Sean too long of a leash. Thus the debate of a 2 year contract vs. a 5 year contract.
DD you're my guy so this isn't a slam at you, but I think you were fed some crap. I absolutely refuse to believe those two men are stupid enough to offer anyone a 2 year head coaching contract, that makes absolutely zero sense. Now if you told me they were debating about 5 versus 7 years I'd buy that, but offering any head coach a two year contract, especially in this scenario, is actually dumber than Kevin Keitzman contending that raising Currie level money for Kansas State is easy.
You're probably right. I was focused on the "short leash" concept, which, under the circumstances, might be logical when it would normally not be. Sean is part of the "Snyder system", an outsider would take a couple of years to either learn/embrace the Snyder system, or implement their own system. 2 years could be rational for Sean in that scenario, despite the recruiting connotations.
If Sean was hired the last thing you'd want to do is to make the hire look even more unorthodox and unstable than it already is. I've been pretty vocal with my approval for Sean but if they feel like they need to do something like that to make it palatable then they shouldn't be doing it.
Post by: pissclams on December 21, 2017, 05:06:40 PM
ITK?
The daughter of a former position coach from Snyder 1.0 lives near me, the dad says that Sean is likely a done deal, and the raging debate is the length of his contract. General Myers and Gene Taylor are both deferential to Bill, but is also leery of giving Sean too long of a leash. Thus the debate of a 2 year contract vs. a 5 year contract.
DD you're my guy so this isn't a slam at you, but I think you were fed some crap. I absolutely refuse to believe those two men are stupid enough to offer anyone a 2 year head coaching contract, that makes absolutely zero sense. Now if you told me they were debating about 5 versus 7 years I'd buy that, but offering any head coach a two year contract, especially in this scenario, is actually dumber than Kevin Keitzman contending that raising Currie level money for Kansas State is easy.
You're probably right. I was focused on the "short leash" concept, which, under the circumstances, might be logical when it would normally not be. Sean is part of the "Snyder system", an outsider would take a couple of years to either learn/embrace the Snyder system, or implement their own system. 2 years could be rational for Sean in that scenario, despite the recruiting connotations.
If Sean was hired the last thing you'd want to do is to make the hire look even more unorthodox and unstable than it already is. I've been pretty vocal with my approval for Sean but if they feel like they need to do something like that to make it palatable then they shouldn't be doing it.
i’m guessing that sean may go out of his way to prove the naysayers wrong and put his own stamp on the program while maintaining the snyder way
Post by: BackPayne on December 21, 2017, 05:57:45 PM
Post by: cfbandyman on December 21, 2017, 06:03:48 PM
If Sean does get the job he had better choose a kickass OC and DC with great recruiting connections.
Agree 100%. Those can cure a lot of queasiness and potential missteps he will have if/as he transitions to being a HC.
Post by: Pete on December 21, 2017, 06:18:31 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 21, 2017, 06:22:11 PM
How the eff will Sean be able to do that?!? Who would risk joining his staff?
Are the only good coordinators already taken and established? College football will be awful when they all eventually die.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 21, 2017, 06:34:56 PM
You'd think people here would be cogent enough to remember the unproven but fantastic staff here last time there was a coaching change. How could anyone put together a staff as good as the legendary Ron Prince?
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 21, 2017, 09:27:50 PM
There are literally thousands of football coaches in this country. Kansas State is one of the best 50 programs in all of college football, the thought that any coach couldn't get someone wanting to prove themselves on the highest stage is one of the dumbest taking points that comes from this fan base. It defies common sense but eventually it will come up in every conversation.It's maybe the least desirable P5 position in the country. You're following a legend at a low profile program in a dying conference. The expectations are inflated due to the recent success of the program, but the reality is that the regional programs are dying. Look at the current signing day returns. The SEC is crushing everyone overall. Outside of that, it's the traditional powers that are cleaning up. More than ever (within the past generation), you have to be a glamour school or have a glamour coach to win recruiting battles. KSU is ISU on paper. ISU is fellating their coach for going 7-5.
You'd think people here would be cogent enough to remember the unproven but fantastic staff here last time there was a coaching change. How could anyone put together a staff as good as the legendary Ron Prince?
Post by: Pete on December 21, 2017, 09:34:45 PM
There are literally thousands of football coaches in this country. Kansas State is one of the best 50 programs in all of college football, the thought that any coach couldn't get someone wanting to prove themselves on the highest stage is one of the dumbest taking points that comes from this fan base. It defies common sense but eventually it will come up in every conversation.It's maybe the least desirable P5 position in the country. You're following a legend at a low profile program in a dying conference. The expectations are inflated due to the recent success of the program, but the reality is that the regional programs are dying. Look at the current signing day returns. The SEC is crushing everyone overall. Outside of that, it's the traditional powers that are cleaning up. More than ever (within the past generation), you have to be a glamour school or have a glamour coach to win recruiting battles. KSU is ISU on paper. ISU is fellating their coach for going 7-5.
You'd think people here would be cogent enough to remember the unproven but fantastic staff here last time there was a coaching change. How could anyone put together a staff as good as the legendary Ron Prince?
Agreed.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 21, 2017, 10:08:38 PM
It's maybe the least desirable P5 position in the country.
:ROFL:
Is this rough ridin' guy serious?
Then what the hot eff is West Virginia? That same failing conference had to save WVU from the AAC. That same WVU without a damn airport. If WVU could find assistants after that shitastic disaster of a coaching transition they had I'm certain anyone else can.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 21, 2017, 10:11:41 PM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on December 21, 2017, 10:21:25 PM
Post by: Pete on December 21, 2017, 10:25:58 PM
Post by: Pete on December 21, 2017, 10:30:28 PM
Post by: Pete on December 21, 2017, 10:33:11 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 21, 2017, 10:52:10 PM
There are literally thousands of football coaches in this country. Kansas State is one of the best 50 programs in all of college football, the thought that any coach couldn't get someone wanting to prove themselves on the highest stage is one of the dumbest taking points that comes from this fan base. It defies common sense but eventually it will come up in every conversation.
You'd think people here would be cogent enough to remember the unproven but fantastic staff here last time there was a coaching change. How could anyone put together a staff as good as the legendary Ron Prince?
KSU could absolutely get decent assistants but you seem to be acting like the coach wouldn't be a factor. What happened to that great Ron Prince staff after they realized he was a complete rough ridin' loon (after a very promising first season, I might add)?
Also, a big advantage Prince had over Sean is he'd worked a ton of jobs around the country and had already worked with most of the folks he hired. When Snyder came he brought in young unknowns he'd worked with at Iowa. I remember a lot of excitement about James Franklin based on his recruiting success at Maryland. Who has Sean worked with that we might get excited about for recruiting/development/strategy?
Finally, you'd think a top 50 program with great coordinator options would be able to hire a more proven head coach than the son of the coach with less than 10 years of actual coaching experience, but whatevs.
Post by: Pete on December 21, 2017, 11:02:15 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 21, 2017, 11:33:57 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 22, 2017, 12:00:33 AM
The perfect person to suceed Snyder is lane kiffen. He would give zero fucks about following a legend, would recruit his balls off and would actually utilize skylar to the best of his ability. Now I've pissed myself off that it will never happen.
he would be amazing, make it happen. remember, they said Huggins would never happen.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 22, 2017, 02:34:10 AM
I don’t think it’s the least desirable job, but it’s not a great situation. And I definitely agree with the KSU being closer to ISU than many would care to admit. So, I mostly agree with the spirit of his post. Whatever. It doesn’t really bother me one way or the other.
I said top 50, not top 15.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 22, 2017, 03:03:04 AM
There are literally thousands of football coaches in this country. Kansas State is one of the best 50 programs in all of college football, the thought that any coach couldn't get someone wanting to prove themselves on the highest stage is one of the dumbest taking points that comes from this fan base. It defies common sense but eventually it will come up in every conversation.
You'd think people here would be cogent enough to remember the unproven but fantastic staff here last time there was a coaching change. How could anyone put together a staff as good as the legendary Ron Prince?
KSU could absolutely get decent assistants but you seem to be acting like the coach wouldn't be a factor.
The coach is a factor for sure, but my pushback is on the notion that Sean wouldn't be able to find anyone, that's silly. Whomever the coach is eventually going to be will have a hodgepodge of guys currently on staff and other guys looking for a change, more money, or to prove themselves. That's the same for us, Mississippi State, Arkansas, Tennessee, etc. I picked Washington State at random to check out their coaching staff, that's an average program with an established coach. Their defensive coordinator was the safeties coach at Missouri before Leach hired him. Wisconsin's d coordinator was in the NFL in 2015. David Beatty got Doug Mecham, why? Dude needed a job.
This profession is filled with dudes on the grind ,that none of us have heard of, waiting for their big break, we'll be fine just like every other P5.school.
Post by: Cire on December 22, 2017, 07:25:50 AM
If he keeps his original staff, Franklin/morris we'd have been fine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 22, 2017, 08:12:16 AM
We just had a West Virginia fan come in here and talk to us like we're Marshall, and pete rolled over like a hapless turtle. What is going on here?I'm not a WV fan...just started posting from the account that was made in that thread for the heck of it.
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 22, 2017, 08:37:14 AM
I can envision Bill with the team down on the field, stretching a tape measure across the filed and reading it aloud. Then Risner puts Skylar on his shoulders and they hold a tape from the ground to the cross bar and Skylar announces the measurement to the team.
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on December 22, 2017, 08:51:23 AM
We just had a West Virginia fan come in here and talk to us like we're Marshall, and pete rolled over like a hapless turtle. What is going on here?I'm not a WV fan...just started posting from the account that was made in that thread for the heck of it.
I don't believe for a second that you randomly just started posting in that thread. so now you are now a west virginian and a known liar. not a good look. care to argue either?
Post by: catastrophe on December 22, 2017, 09:22:43 AM
I don’t think it’s the least desirable job, but it’s not a great situation. And I definitely agree with the KSU being closer to ISU than many would care to admit. So, I mostly agree with the spirit of his post. Whatever. It doesn’t really bother me one way or the other.
So it sounds like you’re saying we should jump on Sean because we can’t do better. Is that your point?
Post by: DQ12 on December 22, 2017, 09:28:21 AM
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 22, 2017, 09:38:00 AM
Not really. I posted on here years ago but forgot my login (it was something like Saul good EMAW IIRC). Went down a rabbit hole a while back and was reading through that thread, so there you go. Really interesting story that I hope was as interesting to read as it was to type... FTR, I'm a Mizzou fan, but KSU is my adopted Big 12 team.We just had a West Virginia fan come in here and talk to us like we're Marshall, and pete rolled over like a hapless turtle. What is going on here?I'm not a WV fan...just started posting from the account that was made in that thread for the heck of it.
I don't believe for a second that you randomly just started posting in that thread. so now you are now a west virginian and a known liar. not a good look. care to argue either?
I don't think the KSU job is appealing as far as P-5 jobs go at the moment due to several different factors. Some of those are temporary, and others are permanent. It has no natural recruiting advantages. It's in the least attractive P-5 conference. Following a legend is bad enough to begin with, but this one is getting pushed out by half the fan base after winning 16 or 17 games the past 2 seasons.
Coaches at similar schools who have that type of success expect raises and job offers from bigger schools. Combine that with the fact that a sizable portion of the fan base will be against you from the start simply because your last name isn't Snyder, and it makes for a pretty unattractive job. I don't feel like anything I'm saying here is particularly controversial.
You may be able to land a coach that goes on to be successful, but you'll have to find someone under the radar...sort of how Snyder recruits. Even then, finding someone who averages 8 wins a season would be a home run hire.
Post by: Brock Landers on December 22, 2017, 09:41:05 AM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on December 22, 2017, 09:42:51 AM
Post by: DQ12 on December 22, 2017, 09:43:15 AM
:lol:
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 22, 2017, 09:44:04 AM
"Home run hire." Beems is back!Thought you'd like that. :gocho:
Post by: wetwillie on December 22, 2017, 09:46:12 AM
Post by: DQ12 on December 22, 2017, 09:49:23 AM
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 22, 2017, 10:00:41 AM
So you're saying they should just hire their D Coordinator to take over as coach and call it a day? Sounds like a lazy way to do it, Miz.Whose D coordinator? I don't know who a great hire would be. At this point, it should probably either be Sean or there needs to be some unambiguous declaration that he won't be in consideration. I'm not aware of a legacy hire ever working out, but there's been a pretty small sample size.
I've had a front row seat for a few poorly managed coaching hires made amidst stupid circumstances of our own making so I recognize one when I see it. Venables seems like the best opportunity to land a big fish. Beyond that, I think he entire candidate pool is going to be a bunch of names that everyone will have to google. Either way, 8 win seasons on average from whomever is hired should not be considered a disappointment.
Post by: michigancat on December 22, 2017, 10:03:13 AM
There are literally thousands of football coaches in this country. Kansas State is one of the best 50 programs in all of college football, the thought that any coach couldn't get someone wanting to prove themselves on the highest stage is one of the dumbest taking points that comes from this fan base. It defies common sense but eventually it will come up in every conversation.
You'd think people here would be cogent enough to remember the unproven but fantastic staff here last time there was a coaching change. How could anyone put together a staff as good as the legendary Ron Prince?
KSU could absolutely get decent assistants but you seem to be acting like the coach wouldn't be a factor.
The coach is a factor for sure, but my pushback is on the notion that Sean wouldn't be able to find anyone, that's silly. Whomever the coach is eventually going to be will have a hodgepodge of guys currently on staff and other guys looking for a change, more money, or to prove themselves. That's the same for us, Mississippi State, Arkansas, Tennessee, etc. I picked Washington State at random to check out their coaching staff, that's an average program with an established coach. Their defensive coordinator was the safeties coach at Missouri before Leach hired him. Wisconsin's d coordinator was in the NFL in 2015. David Beatty got Doug Mecham, why? Dude needed a job.
This profession is filled with dudes on the grind ,that none of us have heard of, waiting for their big break, we'll be fine just like every other P5.school.
I'm not arguing any of that, but I don't think every coach I haven't heard of is equal. I for sure think Sean would be able to find unknown coaches on the grind, but I think he would be worse than most P5 head coaches at finding and hiring the best due to his lack of experience and connections and general unknowns.
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 22, 2017, 10:05:47 AM
i mean, we have one of the top defensive coordinators in the country negotiate a line into his current contract essentially begging to be our head coach, but then again, i'm sure every P5 school has suitors like that.If he wants the job, you'd be crazy to not hire him. Still, it needs to be done in a way that minimizes the backlash from the pro-Sean camp and 8 win seasons can't be looked at as underachieving.
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on December 22, 2017, 10:06:52 AM
Not really. I posted on here years ago but forgot my login (it was something like Saul good EMAW IIRC). Went down a rabbit hole a while back and was reading through that thread, so there you go. Really interesting story that I hope was as interesting to read as it was to type... FTR, I'm a Mizzou fan, but KSU is my adopted Big 12 team.We just had a West Virginia fan come in here and talk to us like we're Marshall, and pete rolled over like a hapless turtle. What is going on here?I'm not a WV fan...just started posting from the account that was made in that thread for the heck of it.
I don't believe for a second that you randomly just started posting in that thread. so now you are now a west virginian and a known liar. not a good look. care to argue either?
in the nicest way possible (and I really mean that), none of what you just said is true. you are a west Virginia alum and that's ok, but I wish you would stop lying about it. anyway welcome back to our message board. I'd love for you to keep posting here.
Post by: DQ12 on December 22, 2017, 10:17:04 AM
Nobody here views 8 win seasons as some horrible thing. This year, we had higher expectations due to who we had returning, and the same will be true for next year too. In years like 2015 and 2016, we would've been tickled to win 8 games.i mean, we have one of the top defensive coordinators in the country negotiate a line into his current contract essentially begging to be our head coach, but then again, i'm sure every P5 school has suitors like that.If he wants the job, you'd be crazy to not hire him. Still, it needs to be done in a way that minimizes the backlash from the pro-Sean camp and 8 win seasons can't be looked at as underachieving.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 22, 2017, 10:21:12 AM
Not really. I posted on here years ago but forgot my login (it was something like Saul good EMAW IIRC). Went down a rabbit hole a while back and was reading through that thread, so there you go. Really interesting story that I hope was as interesting to read as it was to type... FTR, I'm a Mizzou fan, but KSU is my adopted Big 12 team.We just had a West Virginia fan come in here and talk to us like we're Marshall, and pete rolled over like a hapless turtle. What is going on here?I'm not a WV fan...just started posting from the account that was made in that thread for the heck of it.
I don't believe for a second that you randomly just started posting in that thread. so now you are now a west virginian and a known liar. not a good look. care to argue either?
I don't think the KSU job is appealing as far as P-5 jobs go at the moment due to several different factors. Some of those are temporary, and others are permanent. It has no natural recruiting advantages. It's in the least attractive P-5 conference. Following a legend is bad enough to begin with, but this one is getting pushed out by half the fan base after winning 16 or 17 games the past 2 seasons.
Coaches at similar schools who have that type of success expect raises and job offers from bigger schools. Combine that with the fact that a sizable portion of the fan base will be against you from the start simply because your last name isn't Snyder, and it makes for a pretty unattractive job. I don't feel like anything I'm saying here is particularly controversial.
You may be able to land a coach that goes on to be successful, but you'll have to find someone under the radar...sort of how Snyder recruits. Even then, finding someone who averages 8 wins a season would be a home run hire.
I don't know who we'll eventually hire but I do know that we'll do better than Memphis' defensive coordinator.
I'm not sure what the natural recruiting advantages we don't have but I'm guessing schools outside of California and a couple of southern states have the same disadvantages.
And GTFOOMF with being in the Big 12 as a disadvantage to hiring a good coach. Look at the recent hires in the SEC and the Big 12 and the coaching advantages aren't even close. The second worst job in the Big 12 hired one of the most sought after names on last year's carousel. The SEC only hires within itself or coordinators from the AAC.
Also only a low confidence loser would be afraid to follow LHC Bill Snyder, or any other man.
Mizzou, my god :ROFL:
Post by: renocat on December 22, 2017, 10:22:38 AM
Is he?
Post by: MakeItRain on December 22, 2017, 10:25:17 AM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 22, 2017, 10:36:19 AM
There are literally thousands of football coaches in this country. Kansas State is one of the best 50 programs in all of college football, the thought that any coach couldn't get someone wanting to prove themselves on the highest stage is one of the dumbest taking points that comes from this fan base. It defies common sense but eventually it will come up in every conversation.
You'd think people here would be cogent enough to remember the unproven but fantastic staff here last time there was a coaching change. How could anyone put together a staff as good as the legendary Ron Prince?
KSU could absolutely get decent assistants but you seem to be acting like the coach wouldn't be a factor.
The coach is a factor for sure, but my pushback is on the notion that Sean wouldn't be able to find anyone, that's silly. Whomever the coach is eventually going to be will have a hodgepodge of guys currently on staff and other guys looking for a change, more money, or to prove themselves. That's the same for us, Mississippi State, Arkansas, Tennessee, etc. I picked Washington State at random to check out their coaching staff, that's an average program with an established coach. Their defensive coordinator was the safeties coach at Missouri before Leach hired him. Wisconsin's d coordinator was in the NFL in 2015. David Beatty got Doug Mecham, why? Dude needed a job.
This profession is filled with dudes on the grind ,that none of us have heard of, waiting for their big break, we'll be fine just like every other P5.school.
I'm not arguing any of that, but I don't think every coach I haven't heard of is equal. I for sure think Sean would be able to find unknown coaches on the grind, but I think he would be worse than most P5 head coaches at finding and hiring the best due to his lack of experience and connections and general unknowns.
Yeah, you're probably right.
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 22, 2017, 10:39:35 AM
I want to go back to the fact that I said we were a top 50 job and a Mizzou, MIZZOU, fan said that was too high. On top of that an EMAW cosigned that horseshit. I must be hallucinating.Who do you think will be on the short list then?
Post by: manpow5 on December 22, 2017, 10:41:59 AM
I want to go back to the fact that I said we were a top 50 job and a Mizzou, MIZZOU, fan said that was too high. On top of that an EMAW cosigned that horseshit. I must be hallucinating.Who do you think will be on the short list then?
1. Sean
2. Someone with the last name Snyder
3. Bill's corpse strung up like Weekend at Bernies style
Post by: DQ12 on December 22, 2017, 10:46:20 AM
Probably not Memphis' DC.I want to go back to the fact that I said we were a top 50 job and a Mizzou, MIZZOU, fan said that was too high. On top of that an EMAW cosigned that horseshit. I must be hallucinating.Who do you think will be on the short list then?
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 22, 2017, 11:05:36 AM
Quote
I don't know who we'll eventually hire but I do know that we'll do better than Memphis' defensive coordinator.Mizzou hired Mizzou's defensive coordinator. It was a clown show, and I said as much previously. It may wind up working out, but if it does then it's because we got lucky. There was certainly no discernible strategy other than to step on our own dicks at every opportunity. I wouldn't recommend following that blueprint.
I'm not sure what the natural recruiting advantages we don't have but I'm guessing schools outside of California and a couple of southern states have the same disadvantages.
And GTFOOMF with being in the Big 12 as a disadvantage to hiring a good coach. Look at the recent hires in the SEC and the Big 12 and the coaching advantages aren't even close. The second worst job in the Big 12 hired one of the most sought after names on last year's carousel. The SEC only hires within itself or coordinators from the AAC.
Also only a low confidence loser would be afraid to follow LHC LHC Bill Snyder, or any other man.
Mizzou, my god :ROFL:
I don't know what you're getting at as far as the SEC hires go. LSU hired the Oklahoma State coach and won a national title. Auburn hired the Iowa State head coach and won a national title. Arkansas hired a coach who had been to three straight Rose Bowls and failed. aTm just hired the Florida State head coach who had just won a national title a few years ago. Oklahoma just promoted a coordinator, and Texas has become a revolving door of mid major hires. If Matt Rhule is your gold standard, I really don't know where you're going with this. The SEC has made plenty of terrible hires, but there have been plenty of power moves. I honestly can't think of a Big 12 team ever making a splash hire. Maybe it's happened and I just don't remember.
Following legends hasn't worked at USC, Nebraska, Florida, Ohio State, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. I don't know that coaches will be afraid of it per se, but it's a negative to be sure.
Post by: star seed 7 on December 22, 2017, 11:25:14 AM
Post by: cfbandyman on December 22, 2017, 11:25:21 AM
QuoteI don't know who we'll eventually hire but I do know that we'll do better than Memphis' defensive coordinator.Mizzou hired Mizzou's defensive coordinator. It was a clown show, and I said as much previously. It may wind up working out, but if it does then it's because we got lucky. There was certainly no discernible strategy other than to step on our own dicks at every opportunity. I wouldn't recommend following that blueprint.
I'm not sure what the natural recruiting advantages we don't have but I'm guessing schools outside of California and a couple of southern states have the same disadvantages.
And GTFOOMF with being in the Big 12 as a disadvantage to hiring a good coach. Look at the recent hires in the SEC and the Big 12 and the coaching advantages aren't even close. The second worst job in the Big 12 hired one of the most sought after names on last year's carousel. The SEC only hires within itself or coordinators from the AAC.
Also only a low confidence loser would be afraid to follow LHC LHC Bill Snyder, or any other man.
Mizzou, my god :ROFL:
I don't know what you're getting at as far as the SEC hires go. LSU hired the Oklahoma State coach and won a national title. Auburn hired the Iowa State head coach and won a national title. Arkansas hired a coach who had been to three straight Rose Bowls and failed. aTm just hired the Florida State head coach who had just won a national title a few years ago. Oklahoma just promoted a coordinator, and Texas has become a revolving door of mid major hires. If Matt Rhule is your gold standard, I really don't know where you're going with this. The SEC has made plenty of terrible hires, but there have been plenty of power moves. I honestly can't think of a Big 12 team ever making a splash hire. Maybe it's happened and I just don't remember.
Following legends hasn't worked at USC, Nebraska, Florida, Ohio State, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. I don't know that coaches will be afraid of it per se, but it's a negative to be sure.
I don't know why you included these schools. These schools fall in 1 of 2 categories: The "Your 9/10 win seasons aren't good enough for us" (Nubbs w/ Solich and Pelini, tOSU with oscar/Cooper) or went with the wrong guy(s) for a few years and fell flat on our faces (ND and Michigan) and then got right back to being fine. I don't think it's a legend following problems as much as fans get messed up expectations, or they hire literally the wrong guy.
Post by: 8manpick on December 22, 2017, 11:35:54 AM
:'bye cruel world:
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 22, 2017, 11:43:48 AM
I didn't realize it would be so controversial to suggest that you would be well served to settle the Sean Snyder situation ASAP, hire Venables if possible, and feel pretty good if your next coach averages 8 wins a year.
:Wha:
Post by: DQ12 on December 22, 2017, 12:05:43 PM
You've convinced me. KSU should pull a Tennessee, refuse anyone other than a splash hire, and then run him out of town if he fails by only winning 8 games a year. Do any of you even understand what you're arguing, or are you just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing?For pete's sake. You called our HC job the worst in the P5 and didn't expect any pushback? That's not only untrue, but it's deliberately insulting.
I didn't realize it would be so controversial to suggest that you would be well served to settle the Sean Snyder situation ASAP, hire Venables if possible, and feel pretty good if your next coach averages 8 wins a year.
:Wha:
For the record, everyone on earth agrees with the portion in bold.
Post by: WillieWatanabe on December 22, 2017, 12:06:06 PM
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 22, 2017, 12:20:42 PM
That's not what I said. It's not the worst job in P5, but it's currently the least attractive due to the circumstances surrounding the Snyders. The administration has done a very poor job of handling this if they don't intend to hire Sean. There are going to be serious hard feelings unless something is done to put the situation to rest ASAP. The last thing the program needs is to have the Snyder family and their supporters pissed off over the way they were treated on the way out. As a Mizzou fan, I've watched something similar with Norm Stewart haunt the program for decades.You've convinced me. KSU should pull a Tennessee, refuse anyone other than a splash hire, and then run him out of town if he fails by only winning 8 games a year. Do any of you even understand what you're arguing, or are you just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing?For pete's sake. You called our HC job the worst in the P5 and didn't expect any pushback? That's not only untrue, but it's deliberately insulting.
I didn't realize it would be so controversial to suggest that you would be well served to settle the Sean Snyder situation ASAP, hire Venables if possible, and feel pretty good if your next coach averages 8 wins a year.
:Wha:
For the record, everyone on earth agrees with the portion in bold.
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 22, 2017, 12:32:03 PM
That's exactly my point. When you follow a legend and you suck, you get fired...and if you do really well, you still get fired.QuoteI don't know who we'll eventually hire but I do know that we'll do better than Memphis' defensive coordinator.Mizzou hired Mizzou's defensive coordinator. It was a clown show, and I said as much previously. It may wind up working out, but if it does then it's because we got lucky. There was certainly no discernible strategy other than to step on our own dicks at every opportunity. I wouldn't recommend following that blueprint.
I'm not sure what the natural recruiting advantages we don't have but I'm guessing schools outside of California and a couple of southern states have the same disadvantages.
And GTFOOMF with being in the Big 12 as a disadvantage to hiring a good coach. Look at the recent hires in the SEC and the Big 12 and the coaching advantages aren't even close. The second worst job in the Big 12 hired one of the most sought after names on last year's carousel. The SEC only hires within itself or coordinators from the AAC.
Also only a low confidence loser would be afraid to follow LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder, or any other man.
Mizzou, my god :ROFL:
I don't know what you're getting at as far as the SEC hires go. LSU hired the Oklahoma State coach and won a national title. Auburn hired the Iowa State head coach and won a national title. Arkansas hired a coach who had been to three straight Rose Bowls and failed. aTm just hired the Florida State head coach who had just won a national title a few years ago. Oklahoma just promoted a coordinator, and Texas has become a revolving door of mid major hires. If Matt Rhule is your gold standard, I really don't know where you're going with this. The SEC has made plenty of terrible hires, but there have been plenty of power moves. I honestly can't think of a Big 12 team ever making a splash hire. Maybe it's happened and I just don't remember.
Following legends hasn't worked at USC, Nebraska, Florida, Ohio State, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. I don't know that coaches will be afraid of it per se, but it's a negative to be sure.
I don't know why you included these schools. These schools fall in 1 of 2 categories: The "Your 9/10 win seasons aren't good enough for us" (Nubbs w/ Solich and Pelini, tOSU with oscar/Cooper) or went with the wrong guy(s) for a few years and fell flat on our faces (ND and Michigan) and then got right back to being fine. I don't think it's a legend following problems as much as fans get messed up expectations, or they hire literally the wrong guy.
Post by: ChiComCat on December 22, 2017, 01:03:11 PM
Also, Herman was a great get for UT. LSU wanted him and he clearly preferred the UT gig. SEC west hires of Orgeron and Morris in the past couple of years are hardly impressive. They both could work out but neither are big names. Of course Jimbo was a good get. The SEC east coach hires are pretty lol-worthy. Georgia is looking good, Florida finally made a hire that seems capable, and the next best coach maybe the result of the Tennessee dumpster fire.
Your "following a legend" stats of teams that have won National Championships in the past 20 years and one that thinks it has don't mean a whole lot. Of course there are some additional challenges, but K-State is hardly Conference Championship or bust.
Post by: DQ12 on December 22, 2017, 01:13:16 PM
Post by: cat.branchman on December 22, 2017, 01:37:56 PM
Ron Prince would have been just fine had he not been a swinger.
If he keeps his original staff, Franklin/morris we'd have been fine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't forget Scott Frost.
Post by: cfbandyman on December 22, 2017, 02:26:22 PM
That's exactly my point. When you follow a legend and you suck, you get fired...and if you do really well, you still get fired.QuoteI don't know who we'll eventually hire but I do know that we'll do better than Memphis' defensive coordinator.Mizzou hired Mizzou's defensive coordinator. It was a clown show, and I said as much previously. It may wind up working out, but if it does then it's because we got lucky. There was certainly no discernible strategy other than to step on our own dicks at every opportunity. I wouldn't recommend following that blueprint.
I'm not sure what the natural recruiting advantages we don't have but I'm guessing schools outside of California and a couple of southern states have the same disadvantages.
And GTFOOMF with being in the Big 12 as a disadvantage to hiring a good coach. Look at the recent hires in the SEC and the Big 12 and the coaching advantages aren't even close. The second worst job in the Big 12 hired one of the most sought after names on last year's carousel. The SEC only hires within itself or coordinators from the AAC.
Also only a low confidence loser would be afraid to follow LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder, or any other man.
Mizzou, my god :ROFL:
I don't know what you're getting at as far as the SEC hires go. LSU hired the Oklahoma State coach and won a national title. Auburn hired the Iowa State head coach and won a national title. Arkansas hired a coach who had been to three straight Rose Bowls and failed. aTm just hired the Florida State head coach who had just won a national title a few years ago. Oklahoma just promoted a coordinator, and Texas has become a revolving door of mid major hires. If Matt Rhule is your gold standard, I really don't know where you're going with this. The SEC has made plenty of terrible hires, but there have been plenty of power moves. I honestly can't think of a Big 12 team ever making a splash hire. Maybe it's happened and I just don't remember.
Following legends hasn't worked at USC, Nebraska, Florida, Ohio State, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. I don't know that coaches will be afraid of it per se, but it's a negative to be sure.
I don't know why you included these schools. These schools fall in 1 of 2 categories: The "Your 9/10 win seasons aren't good enough for us" (Nubbs w/ Solich and Pelini, tOSU with oscar/Cooper) or went with the wrong guy(s) for a few years and fell flat on our faces (ND and Michigan) and then got right back to being fine. I don't think it's a legend following problems as much as fans get messed up expectations, or they hire literally the wrong guy.
So like, it doesn't matter anyways? You suck you'd be fired regardless of who you follow, and if you are too stupid to not be happy with 9/10 seasons, you clearly don't pay attention to how CFB in the long run works.
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 22, 2017, 02:30:23 PM
The least attractive job in P5 is Kansas and that is not particularly close. Terrible facilities, very little history of success, and it hardly pays what most D1 coordinators make.My initial thought was that KU is more attractive due to the fact that a coach could win 6 games in three years and get an extension with a raise, but you're probably right. I'm assuming both schools will be looking for a new coach after next year, and I would expect KSU to be able to land the better coach, particularly given what a mess their AD is.
Also, Herman was a great get for UT. LSU wanted him and he clearly preferred the UT gig. SEC west hires of Orgeron and Morris in the past couple of years are hardly impressive. They both could work out but neither are big names. Of course Jimbo was a good get. The SEC east coach hires are pretty lol-worthy. Georgia is looking good, Florida finally made a hire that seems capable, and the next best coach maybe the result of the Tennessee dumpster fire.
Your "following a legend" stats of teams that have won National Championships in the past 20 years and one that thinks it has don't mean a whole lot. Of course there are some additional challenges, but K-State is hardly Conference Championship or bust.
We're pretty much splitting hairs, though. KSU is a top 50 job in general. The rift that has been allowed to fester between team OBZ and team anyone but Sean is a very real issue that needs to be nipped in the bud if it's not going to be Sean.
Norm Stewart's situation was a black cloud over Mizzou basketball for two decades that didn't end until the blue heads finally got their way and Kim Anderson was given the keys. Only after three years of KU-football level disaster did the argument finally get settled. Hopefully KSU football doesn't need to go through that garbage, but that's the road you're on right now.
Letting Bill force your hand is a terrible strategy. Either let Sean coach or tell Bill that the program can't afford to wait around every offseason while he decides whether or not he wants to return the following year. That benefits nobody. If Sean isn't the guy, make your best offer to BV and go from there. Waiting around with a lame duck head coach is the worst course of action.
Mizzou got stuck holding the bag in football and had no choice other than to promote our DC to head coach. That was a disaster (although he's done a remarkable job of pulling out of the tailspin) that could have been avoided had there been competent leadership in place at the time. Instead, we stood around and got caught holding our dicks when Pinkel decided to bail.
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 22, 2017, 02:45:47 PM
Guys like Solich and Pelini didn't suck, though. They were good coaches who won a ton of games and then got fired for not being Osborne. Nobody is going to win at Nebraska like Osborne did, and nobody is going to win at KSU like Snyder did. Nebraska will be really fortunate to find a coach who wins at the level of Solich or Pelini, and KSU will be really fortunate to find a coach who wins at the level Snyder 2.0. 2.0 has 73 wins and counting. I'll take the under on the next two coaches at KSU having that many wins combined.That's exactly my point. When you follow a legend and you suck, you get fired...and if you do really well, you still get fired.QuoteI don't know who we'll eventually hire but I do know that we'll do better than Memphis' defensive coordinator.Mizzou hired Mizzou's defensive coordinator. It was a clown show, and I said as much previously. It may wind up working out, but if it does then it's because we got lucky. There was certainly no discernible strategy other than to step on our own dicks at every opportunity. I wouldn't recommend following that blueprint.
I'm not sure what the natural recruiting advantages we don't have but I'm guessing schools outside of California and a couple of southern states have the same disadvantages.
And GTFOOMF with being in the Big 12 as a disadvantage to hiring a good coach. Look at the recent hires in the SEC and the Big 12 and the coaching advantages aren't even close. The second worst job in the Big 12 hired one of the most sought after names on last year's carousel. The SEC only hires within itself or coordinators from the AAC.
Also only a low confidence loser would be afraid to follow LHC LHC LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder, or any other man.
Mizzou, my god :ROFL:
I don't know what you're getting at as far as the SEC hires go. LSU hired the Oklahoma State coach and won a national title. Auburn hired the Iowa State head coach and won a national title. Arkansas hired a coach who had been to three straight Rose Bowls and failed. aTm just hired the Florida State head coach who had just won a national title a few years ago. Oklahoma just promoted a coordinator, and Texas has become a revolving door of mid major hires. If Matt Rhule is your gold standard, I really don't know where you're going with this. The SEC has made plenty of terrible hires, but there have been plenty of power moves. I honestly can't think of a Big 12 team ever making a splash hire. Maybe it's happened and I just don't remember.
Following legends hasn't worked at USC, Nebraska, Florida, Ohio State, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. I don't know that coaches will be afraid of it per se, but it's a negative to be sure.
I don't know why you included these schools. These schools fall in 1 of 2 categories: The "Your 9/10 win seasons aren't good enough for us" (Nubbs w/ Solich and Pelini, tOSU with oscar/Cooper) or went with the wrong guy(s) for a few years and fell flat on our faces (ND and Michigan) and then got right back to being fine. I don't think it's a legend following problems as much as fans get messed up expectations, or they hire literally the wrong guy.
So like, it doesn't matter anyways? You suck you'd be fired regardless of who you follow, and if you are too stupid to not be happy with 9/10 seasons, you clearly don't pay attention to how CFB in the long run works.
For all the complaining about the current "mediocrity" of the program, it takes a really good coach to win 8 games in a season in Manhattan. Snyder 2.0 is a bowl game win away from doing that for the sixth time in the past 7 seasons. If Matt Campbell does that in Ames, they'll build a statue of him that will eventually be washed away in a flood.
Post by: DQ12 on December 22, 2017, 02:58:10 PM
For all the complaining about the current "mediocrity" of the program, it takes a really good coach to win 8 games in a season in Manhattan. Snyder 2.0 is a bowl game win away from doing that for the sixth time in the past 7 seasons. If Matt Campbell does that in Ames, they'll build a statue of him that will eventually be washed away in a flood.This is the type of condescending bullshit we're talking about.
No. It really doesn't take a worldbeater to win 8 games a year at K-State, or anywhere. Have a winning conference record and win your OOC games. There, you've won 8 games. Or, hell, win your OOC games and go 4-5 in conference and win the heart of dallas bowl. Boom, 8 wins.
That's not to say 8 win seasons suck. They don't. But treating 8 wins like it's some great accomplishment is ridiculous. It's a nice season. But the goal of every P5 program should be to compete for conference championships. At K-State, I think it's reasonable to expect to be a serious title contender every four years or so. 8 wins doesn't get you there.
Post by: pissclams on December 22, 2017, 03:10:38 PM
Post by: ben ji on December 22, 2017, 03:22:14 PM
Guys like Solich and Pelini didn't suck, though. They were good coaches who won a ton of games and then got fired for not being Osborne. Nobody is going to win at Nebraska like Osborne did, and nobody is going to win at KSU like Snyder did. Nebraska will be really fortunate to find a coach who wins at the level of Solich or Pelini, and KSU will be really fortunate to find a coach who wins at the level Snyder 2.0. 2.0 has 73 wins and counting. I'll take the under on the next two coaches at KSU having that many wins combined.That's exactly my point. When you follow a legend and you suck, you get fired...and if you do really well, you still get fired.QuoteI don't know who we'll eventually hire but I do know that we'll do better than Memphis' defensive coordinator.Mizzou hired Mizzou's defensive coordinator. It was a clown show, and I said as much previously. It may wind up working out, but if it does then it's because we got lucky. There was certainly no discernible strategy other than to step on our own dicks at every opportunity. I wouldn't recommend following that blueprint.
I'm not sure what the natural recruiting advantages we don't have but I'm guessing schools outside of California and a couple of southern states have the same disadvantages.
And GTFOOMF with being in the Big 12 as a disadvantage to hiring a good coach. Look at the recent hires in the SEC and the Big 12 and the coaching advantages aren't even close. The second worst job in the Big 12 hired one of the most sought after names on last year's carousel. The SEC only hires within itself or coordinators from the AAC.
Also only a low confidence loser would be afraid to follow LHC LHC LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder, or any other man.
Mizzou, my god :ROFL:
I don't know what you're getting at as far as the SEC hires go. LSU hired the Oklahoma State coach and won a national title. Auburn hired the Iowa State head coach and won a national title. Arkansas hired a coach who had been to three straight Rose Bowls and failed. aTm just hired the Florida State head coach who had just won a national title a few years ago. Oklahoma just promoted a coordinator, and Texas has become a revolving door of mid major hires. If Matt Rhule is your gold standard, I really don't know where you're going with this. The SEC has made plenty of terrible hires, but there have been plenty of power moves. I honestly can't think of a Big 12 team ever making a splash hire. Maybe it's happened and I just don't remember.
Following legends hasn't worked at USC, Nebraska, Florida, Ohio State, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. I don't know that coaches will be afraid of it per se, but it's a negative to be sure.
I don't know why you included these schools. These schools fall in 1 of 2 categories: The "Your 9/10 win seasons aren't good enough for us" (Nubbs w/ Solich and Pelini, tOSU with oscar/Cooper) or went with the wrong guy(s) for a few years and fell flat on our faces (ND and Michigan) and then got right back to being fine. I don't think it's a legend following problems as much as fans get messed up expectations, or they hire literally the wrong guy.
So like, it doesn't matter anyways? You suck you'd be fired regardless of who you follow, and if you are too stupid to not be happy with 9/10 seasons, you clearly don't pay attention to how CFB in the long run works.
For all the complaining about the current "mediocrity" of the program, it takes a really good coach to win 8 games in a season in Manhattan. Snyder 2.0 is a bowl game win away from doing that for the sixth time in the past 7 seasons. If Matt Campbell does that in Ames, they'll build a statue of him that will eventually be washed away in a flood.
You think we would be fortunate to find a coach to win 8.1 games per season? Gene Taylor could spin his rolodex and randomly find a coach to do that.
Post by: michigancat on December 22, 2017, 05:48:06 PM
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 22, 2017, 05:59:57 PM
Florida, Florida State, LSU, and Ohio State all won national titles less than five years after replacing legendary coaches. And Penn State is better than they were under Paterno's last few years plus they had the whole pedophilia thing.Yep. Florida State gave the reins to their HCIW (see Snyder, S.). Saban wasn't a legend at LSU...just a really good coach for 4 years. The rest had established good/great coaches come after the successor to the legend flamed out. KSU isn't going to hire a James Franklin, Jim Harbaugh, or Urban Meyer. If Bob Stoops decides he wants the job, the by all means...hire him. The reality of college sports is that coaches following legends have historically been fired even in the rare instances when they've done a good job. crap...Kansas fans were ready to sack Bill Self after 3 seasons.
Post by: CHONGS on December 22, 2017, 07:06:47 PM
Post by: Pete on December 22, 2017, 07:33:25 PM
Post by: Pete on December 22, 2017, 07:36:33 PM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on December 22, 2017, 08:32:09 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 22, 2017, 08:34:57 PM
Yeah so what you're saying is the coach you hire matters more than whether or not they follow a legendFlorida, Florida State, LSU, and Ohio State all won national titles less than five years after replacing legendary coaches. And Penn State is better than they were under Paterno's last few years plus they had the whole pedophilia thing.Yep. Florida State gave the reins to their HCIW (see Snyder, S.). Saban wasn't a legend at LSU...just a really good coach for 4 years. The rest had established good/great coaches come after the successor to the legend flamed out. KSU isn't going to hire a James Franklin, Jim Harbaugh, or Urban Meyer. If Bob Stoops decides he wants the job, the by all means...hire him. The reality of college sports is that coaches following legends have historically been fired even in the rare instances when they've done a good job. crap...Kansas fans were ready to sack Bill Self after 3 seasons.
Also Meyer coached at Utah and Harbaugh coached at San Diego and Franklin coached at Vandy so yes KSU could hire someone like that. (Just earlier in their career)
Post by: Pete on December 22, 2017, 09:18:56 PM
We've been a fringe top 25 team since Snyder come back, but I don't get this Pete meltdown. He calmed the waters a bit and as long as we stay a P5 school, anything is possible. If Sean takes over, it will be mediocrity at best, but man, I love bowl games!
Meltdown? I’d have to give a eff to meltdown.
Post by: catastrophe on December 22, 2017, 09:58:14 PM
There are 65 power find teams (once you include ND). Is being top 50 really all that of an achievement?
Not much of an achievement, but don’t forget there are plenty of G5 jobs that are better than P5 ones.
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 22, 2017, 10:00:55 PM
I can't believe everyone wants to take something this simple and make it complicated. Of course KSU can hire a relatively unknown coach who turns out to be good. What makes things difficult is that a coach who follows a legend is going to have to have more success at that school in order to get a fair shake than he would at a similar school where he wasn't replacing a legend. Expectations simply get out of whack, and the new coach becomes a victim of his predecessor's success. Hell, Snyder 2.0 is a victim of his own success and is being unfairly criticized.Yeah so what you're saying is the coach you hire matters more than whether or not they follow a legendFlorida, Florida State, LSU, and Ohio State all won national titles less than five years after replacing legendary coaches. And Penn State is better than they were under Paterno's last few years plus they had the whole pedophilia thing.Yep. Florida State gave the reins to their HCIW (see Snyder, S.). Saban wasn't a legend at LSU...just a really good coach for 4 years. The rest had established good/great coaches come after the successor to the legend flamed out. KSU isn't going to hire a James Franklin, Jim Harbaugh, or Urban Meyer. If Bob Stoops decides he wants the job, the by all means...hire him. The reality of college sports is that coaches following legends have historically been fired even in the rare instances when they've done a good job. crap...Kansas fans were ready to sack Bill Self after 3 seasons.
Also Meyer coached at Utah and Harbaugh coached at San Diego and Franklin coached at Vandy so yes KSU could hire someone like that. (Just earlier in their career)
Don't believe me? The two overarching criticisms on this board are that he 1. doesn't recruit worth a damn and 2. didn't compete for a conference title this season despite a bunch of returning talent. Which is it? Either he doesn't recruit talented players, or he shouldn't be expected to compete for a conference title given the returning talent. It can't really be both, can it?
If KSU wins in the bowl game, Snyder will have averaged 8 wins a season over the life of the outgoing senior class. That should never get a coach pushed out the door at a school like KSU. Your peer schools are teams like Kansas, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Missouri, and Iowa. None of those schools should ever fire a coach who consistently wins 8+ games a year. It's rarely a good idea for even the power schools as evidenced by Tennessee, Texas, LSU, Nebraska, etc.
Coaches who consistently win 8+ games at non elite schools leave for elite schools more often than not. Bill is an anomaly. Hell, Gary Pinkel is an anomaly, and he regrets not taking the Michigan job when it was offered. No up and coming coach is going to take a job at a non power school where an 8 win season is considered mediocre and there is a large faction who is pissed that your last name isn't Snyder. (The obvious possible exception is Venables, and I've repeatedly said that if he's the guy, it's way past time to loudly and definitively declare that Sean is not going to be the next coach.)
The longer you lead on Team Sean, the more likely you are to wind up with a circus on your hands if it isn't him. Missouri had a circus and had to settle for Odom because he was the only guy who would take the job. Tennessee just did the same thing. LSU just did the same thing. Nebraska's done it multiple times. Texas did it after Mack Brown. For the non EMAW crowd, there are a ton of generic schools that look just like KSU that don't come with all that baggage.
Post by: michigancat on December 22, 2017, 10:17:59 PM
I can't believe everyone wants to take something this simple and make it complicated.
lol
Post by: Cire on December 22, 2017, 10:35:51 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: bones129 on December 22, 2017, 11:39:41 PM
I can't believe everyone wants to take something this simple and make it complicated.
lol
Saw it, didn't read it. Looked too complicated.
Post by: The Big Train on December 23, 2017, 07:53:07 AM
Post by: catastrophe on December 23, 2017, 07:57:35 AM
Post by: PIPE on December 23, 2017, 08:15:47 AM
Post by: purplehaze on December 23, 2017, 10:50:04 AM
The two overarching criticisms on this board are that he 1. doesn't recruit worth a damn and 2. didn't compete for a conference title this season despite a bunch of returning talent. Which is it? Either he doesn't recruit talented players, or he shouldn't be expected to compete for a conference title given the returning talent. It can't really be both, can it?
Actually a fair point
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Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 23, 2017, 11:35:47 AM
The two overarching criticisms on this board are that he 1. doesn't recruit worth a damn and 2. didn't compete for a conference title this season despite a bunch of returning talent. Which is it? Either he doesn't recruit talented players, or he shouldn't be expected to compete for a conference title given the returning talent. It can't really be both, can it?
Actually a fair point
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He just doesn't understand this board. Logic is optional. He'll learn.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 23, 2017, 11:36:40 AM
There are 65 power find teams (once you include ND). Is being top 50 really all that of an achievement?
No it isn't. I put top 50 so the conversation wouldn't get lost in the ancillary point about our place in college football. I guess even that was too ambitious for pete and his mizzou buddy.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 23, 2017, 11:45:17 AM
The two overarching criticisms on this board are that he 1. doesn't recruit worth a damn and 2. didn't compete for a conference title this season despite a bunch of returning talent. Which is it? Either he doesn't recruit talented players, or he shouldn't be expected to compete for a conference title given the returning talent. It can't really be both, can it?
Actually a fair point
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Not really. First of all, I can't point to a single poster that follows that exact logic trail. Secondly, it can absolutely be both, no one has questioned the staffs ability to develop talent. There is no doubt that our recruiting could be better, we are routinely last, or near last, in the P5 with some Go5 out ranking us. All that being said, this is the first time that we were significantly worse than what was expected, people have reason to think that the staff is slipping in development of the players we're bringing in.
Post by: michigancat on December 23, 2017, 11:52:19 AM
The two overarching criticisms on this board are that he 1. doesn't recruit worth a damn and 2. didn't compete for a conference title this season despite a bunch of returning talent. Which is it? Either he doesn't recruit talented players, or he shouldn't be expected to compete for a conference title given the returning talent. It can't really be both, can it?
Actually a fair point
It's actually a terrible point - you can think the current staff is good at identifying and landing talent but also think recruiting could be a little better. Also where's the option that they got badly outcoached in games like Vandy and WVU and Texas?
Post by: star seed 7 on December 23, 2017, 12:21:31 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 23, 2017, 12:45:58 PM
Maybe if we recruited better we could develop players even more :surprised:
Tell LHC Bill Snyder that.
His philosophy is interesting and worth discussion though. How much would player development be hurt if coaches spent more time on the road in season instead of watching film 12 hours a day?
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 23, 2017, 03:38:08 PM
The two overarching criticisms on this board are that he 1. doesn't recruit worth a damn and 2. didn't compete for a conference title this season despite a bunch of returning talent. Which is it? Either he doesn't recruit talented players, or he shouldn't be expected to compete for a conference title given the returning talent. It can't really be both, can it?
Actually a fair point
It's actually a terrible point - you can think the current staff is good at identifying and landing talent but also think recruiting could be a little better. Also where's the option that they got badly outcoached in games like Vandy and WVU and Texas?
:lol: Let's not pretend that's what is meant by the bulk of the posters. It would be difficult to argue that we couldn't be a little better in every discipline within the program. But it's laughable to suggest that's what is being argued in about every recruiting discussion on this board.
Post by: michigancat on December 23, 2017, 03:58:39 PM
The two overarching criticisms on this board are that he 1. doesn't recruit worth a damn and 2. didn't compete for a conference title this season despite a bunch of returning talent. Which is it? Either he doesn't recruit talented players, or he shouldn't be expected to compete for a conference title given the returning talent. It can't really be both, can it?
Actually a fair point
It's actually a terrible point - you can think the current staff is good at identifying and landing talent but also think recruiting could be a little better. Also where's the option that they got badly outcoached in games like Vandy and WVU and Texas?
Let's not pretend that's what is meant by the bulk of the posters. It would be difficult to argue that we couldn't be a little better in every discipline within the program. But it's laughable to suggest that's what is being argued in about every recruiting discussion on this board.
What is meant by the "bulk of the posters"?
Post by: michigancat on December 23, 2017, 03:58:48 PM
The two overarching criticisms on this board are that he 1. doesn't recruit worth a damn and 2. didn't compete for a conference title this season despite a bunch of returning talent. Which is it? Either he doesn't recruit talented players, or he shouldn't be expected to compete for a conference title given the returning talent. It can't really be both, can it?
Actually a fair point
It's actually a terrible point - you can think the current staff is good at identifying and landing talent but also think recruiting could be a little better. Also where's the option that they got badly outcoached in games like Vandy and WVU and Texas?
What is meant by the "bulk of the posters"?
Post by: michigancat on December 23, 2017, 03:58:54 PM
The two overarching criticisms on this board are that he 1. doesn't recruit worth a damn and 2. didn't compete for a conference title this season despite a bunch of returning talent. Which is it? Either he doesn't recruit talented players, or he shouldn't be expected to compete for a conference title given the returning talent. It can't really be both, can it?
Actually a fair point
It's actually a terrible point - you can think the current staff is good at identifying and landing talent but also think recruiting could be a little better. Also where's the option that they got badly outcoached in games like Vandy and WVU and Texas?
What is meant by the "bulk of the posters"?
Post by: MakeItRain on December 23, 2017, 04:09:56 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 23, 2017, 04:10:20 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 23, 2017, 04:10:39 PM
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 23, 2017, 04:17:40 PM
Post by: KITNfury on December 23, 2017, 07:29:54 PM
Post by: purplehaze on December 24, 2017, 01:03:50 AM
I think some people on this board that expected us to be contending for the XII this year are now more vocal than before about the state of our recruiting over that past few years. I don't think it's dichotomous as toothguy lays it out, but there is some hypocrisy with preseason expectations to compete for a championship and then saying our recruiting has been inadequate.
The two overarching criticisms on this board are that he 1. doesn't recruit worth a damn and 2. didn't compete for a conference title this season despite a bunch of returning talent. Which is it? Either he doesn't recruit talented players, or he shouldn't be expected to compete for a conference title given the returning talent. It can't really be both, can it?
Actually a fair point
It's actually a terrible point - you can think the current staff is good at identifying and landing talent but also think recruiting could be a little better. Also where's the option that they got badly outcoached in games like Vandy and WVU and Texas?
Considering that I do think we were relatively less talented this year compared to the XII even though our talent was better than most of the 2.0 rosters. XII was strong this year, there were only 2 bad teams this year and then 5 pretty good teams battling for #4 and this OU is the best XII team in years. Combine that with injuries and bad in-game management and our season was meh.
What I'm getting at is there were a lot of reasons we weren't very good this year. And yeah relative talent is one of them. But to be honest the only way kstate wins the XII is if it's a relative down year. Maybe that could change with venzy/leavitt, idk.
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Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 24, 2017, 09:12:12 AM
That guy just said "you people" if I'm not mistaken.
I have nothing against you people and in fact one of my lawyers is a you person.
Post by: Pete on December 24, 2017, 09:16:08 AM
That guy just said "you people" if I'm not mistaken.
I have nothing against you people and in fact one of my lawyers is a you person.
I have you people friends.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 24, 2017, 10:04:38 AM
That guy just said "you people" if I'm not mistaken.
I have nothing against you people and in fact one of my lawyers is a you person.
:ROFL:
Post by: michigancat on December 24, 2017, 10:50:30 AM
I think some people on this board that expected us to be contending for the XII this year are now more vocal than before about the state of our recruiting over that past few years. I don't think it's dichotomous as toothguy lays it out, but there is some hypocrisy with preseason expectations to compete for a championship and then saying our recruiting has been inadequate.
The two overarching criticisms on this board are that he 1. doesn't recruit worth a damn and 2. didn't compete for a conference title this season despite a bunch of returning talent. Which is it? Either he doesn't recruit talented players, or he shouldn't be expected to compete for a conference title given the returning talent. It can't really be both, can it?
Actually a fair point
It's actually a terrible point - you can think the current staff is good at identifying and landing talent but also think recruiting could be a little better. Also where's the option that they got badly outcoached in games like Vandy and WVU and Texas?
Considering that I do think we were relatively less talented this year compared to the XII even though our talent was better than most of the 2.0 rosters. XII was strong this year, there were only 2 bad teams this year and then 5 pretty good teams battling for #4 and this OU is the best XII team in years. Combine that with injuries and bad in-game management and our season was meh.
What I'm getting at is there were a lot of reasons we weren't very good this year. And yeah relative talent is one of them. But to be honest the only way kstate wins the XII is if it's a relative down year. Maybe that could change with venzy/leavitt, idk.
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This year felt like a one-in-four-year shot due to the roster/stars being aligned - not exactly a ringing endorsement of our recruiting prowess. I personally think the staff is pretty good at identifying talent they can land and developing starters but poor at putting quality young recruits in positions to be successful and at building depth in general.
I also certainly don't think anyone will be expecting title contention next year. Do you?
Post by: purplehaze on December 24, 2017, 11:02:25 AM
Depends how many people we lose to transfers and the draft and who our coach is but maybe.I think some people on this board that expected us to be contending for the XII this year are now more vocal than before about the state of our recruiting over that past few years. I don't think it's dichotomous as toothguy lays it out, but there is some hypocrisy with preseason expectations to compete for a championship and then saying our recruiting has been inadequate.
The two overarching criticisms on this board are that he 1. doesn't recruit worth a damn and 2. didn't compete for a conference title this season despite a bunch of returning talent. Which is it? Either he doesn't recruit talented players, or he shouldn't be expected to compete for a conference title given the returning talent. It can't really be both, can it?
Actually a fair point
It's actually a terrible point - you can think the current staff is good at identifying and landing talent but also think recruiting could be a little better. Also where's the option that they got badly outcoached in games like Vandy and WVU and Texas?
Considering that I do think we were relatively less talented this year compared to the XII even though our talent was better than most of the 2.0 rosters. XII was strong this year, there were only 2 bad teams this year and then 5 pretty good teams battling for #4 and this OU is the best XII team in years. Combine that with injuries and bad in-game management and our season was meh.
What I'm getting at is there were a lot of reasons we weren't very good this year. And yeah relative talent is one of them. But to be honest the only way kstate wins the XII is if it's a relative down year. Maybe that could change with venzy/leavitt, idk.
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This year felt like a one-in-four-year shot due to the roster/stars being aligned - not exactly a ringing endorsement of our recruiting prowess. I personally think the staff is pretty good at identifying talent they can land and developing starters but poor at putting quality young recruits in positions to be successful and at building depth in general.
I also certainly don't think anyone will be expecting title contention next year. Do you?
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Post by: star seed 7 on December 24, 2017, 12:54:57 PM
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 24, 2017, 06:18:00 PM
I hope wb tells us what the bulk of posters really mean by recruiting betterIts pretty obvious. Bill is bad at recruiting. Also, he should have won the Big 12 despite multiple QB injuries because the returning players he recruited were so good. This isn't a hypocritical position to take because Bill's staff is really good at coaching up players, so the only reason the terrible recruits were good enough to be expected to win the conference is because they were coached up so much and the only reason they didn't win the conference is because of poor coaching.
Post by: star seed 7 on December 24, 2017, 06:20:27 PM
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 24, 2017, 08:28:00 PM
I hope wb tells us what the bulk of posters really mean by recruiting betterIts pretty obvious. Bill is bad at recruiting. Also, he should have won the Big 12 despite multiple QB injuries because the returning players he recruited were so good. This isn't a hypocritical position to take because Bill's staff is really good at coaching up players, so the only reason the terrible recruits were good enough to be expected to win the conference is because they were coached up so much and the only reason they didn't win the conference is because of poor coaching.
Welcome to life on goEMAW. The reality is that although our recruiting could be better (what couldn't) it's only "horrible" to the retards that focus only on the webnerds rankings. Bill is excellent at identifying talent and in particular talent that will excel in his program. Even when those players excel and we land 4 players on the All Big 12 First Team, when the webnerds say our class is ranked last in the Big 12, the retards go nuts.
I can't blame this year on a lack of talent. We were competitive in every game sans the TCU game. We lost some games we normally win. And we did it all with a rotating door at qb...which is partly coaching, i will give you. Regardless, we should have won a few more games this year. Disappointing but nothing to freak out about.
Post by: michigancat on December 24, 2017, 08:43:39 PM
http://www.big12sports.com/pdf9/5463097.pdf
Post by: DQ12 on December 24, 2017, 10:14:50 PM
Post by: Pete on December 24, 2017, 10:19:30 PM
If you return a ton of your players and still have a mediocre season then wondering if your talent level is up to par is a completely rational thing.
WOAH, WHICH WAY DO YOU WANT IT PAL, YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH!
Post by: Ihaveteeth on December 24, 2017, 11:15:39 PM
If you return a ton of your players and still have a mediocre season then wondering if your talent level is up to par is a completely rational thing.9 win seasons put you on the hot seat in Manhattan. If you only win 7-8 games the following year, you're either a bad recruiter or a bad coach. How dare we have to play bowl games against teams like Arkansas, Oregon, Michigan, and UCLA. The new coach will probably do better than that.
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 24, 2017, 11:20:36 PM
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 25, 2017, 08:59:17 AM
We had three position players on first team All Big 12, fewer than TCU, Oklahoma State, and Oklahoma, and the same as Iowa State and Texas.
http://www.big12sports.com/pdf9/5463097.pdf
So are you saying our recruiting is great, as good as Texas (traditional webnerds top ten) or are you saying it's horrible, 3 teams in the Big 12 are better than us? TIA.
Post by: The Big Train on December 25, 2017, 09:04:37 AM
Post by: 8manpick on December 25, 2017, 10:03:18 AM
Guys it’s Christmas
Man. Infighting, nepotism, a coach holding an entire program hostage, 2-star recruits? This is a disaster. Someone should really write a song about it all.
I'm hoping we get a new song for Christmas!
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 25, 2017, 10:37:30 AM
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 25, 2017, 10:59:42 AM
Go Cats.
Post by: michigancat on December 25, 2017, 12:36:34 PM
We had three position players on first team All Big 12, fewer than TCU, Oklahoma State, and Oklahoma, and the same as Iowa State and Texas.
http://www.big12sports.com/pdf9/5463097.pdf
So are you saying our recruiting is great, as good as Texas (traditional webnerds top ten) or are you saying it's horrible, 3 teams in the Big 12 are better than us? TIA.
I don't believe I said either of those things
Post by: DQ12 on December 25, 2017, 02:41:56 PM
if you return what Kstate returned this year and only win 7-8 games then yeah, you're either a bad recruiter or a bad coach.If you return a ton of your players and still have a mediocre season then wondering if your talent level is up to par is a completely rational thing.9 win seasons put you on the hot seat in Manhattan. If you only win 7-8 games the following year, you're either a bad recruiter or a bad coach. How dare we have to play bowl games against teams like Arkansas, Oregon, Michigan, and UCLA. The new coach will probably do better than that.
Post by: michigancat on December 25, 2017, 03:20:45 PM
Post by: Whisker Biscuit on December 25, 2017, 03:31:58 PM
We had three position players on first team All Big 12, fewer than TCU, Oklahoma State, and Oklahoma, and the same as Iowa State and Texas.
http://www.big12sports.com/pdf9/5463097.pdf
So are you saying our recruiting is great, as good as Texas (traditional webnerds top ten) or are you saying it's horrible, 3 teams in the Big 12 are better than us? TIA.
I don't believe I said either of those things
So you're just showing off how good you are at counting? All the way to 3...nice work Rusty!
Post by: renocat on August 01, 2018, 03:55:25 PM
Post by: ksufearless on August 01, 2018, 06:31:07 PM
The picture of Coach in recent days in news articles are alarming to me. He does not look well.
the guy is 78 years old..... lol. and do you really think he is an active, every day coach? The assistant coaches are doing 95% of the work now
Post by: 8manpick on August 01, 2018, 06:42:59 PM
What does his active coaching have to do with Reno's concern for an old man, you callous eff?The picture of Coach in recent days in news articles are alarming to me. He does not look well.
the guy is 78 years old..... lol. and do you really think he is an active, every day coach? The assistant coaches are doing 95% of the work now
Post by: ELL3 on August 01, 2018, 10:17:09 PM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on August 09, 2018, 03:10:48 PM
Post by: manpow5 on August 09, 2018, 03:16:24 PM
https://twitter.com/Jake_Trotter/status/1027647700576202752
One last hurrah to pad the inheritance for the kids.
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on August 09, 2018, 03:17:46 PM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on August 09, 2018, 03:25:40 PM
https://twitter.com/Riley_Gates/status/1027650507630891010
Post by: Shooter Jones on August 09, 2018, 03:31:35 PM
Post by: MadCat on August 09, 2018, 03:37:56 PM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on August 09, 2018, 03:55:53 PM
Post by: kstater on August 09, 2018, 03:59:23 PM
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Post by: DaBigTrain on August 09, 2018, 04:05:22 PM
Poor Riley. He just busts his ass 24/7/365 and he takes 10 minutes for a rough ridin' shower and then this hits. Kid can't catch a break.
https://twitter.com/Riley_Gates/status/1027650507630891010
(https://media.giphy.com/media/AEUsqXqGANZSU4H9ZK/giphy.gif)
Post by: Trim on August 09, 2018, 06:47:10 PM
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4705193/Bill-Snyder-contract-extension.pdf
Post by: star seed 7 on August 09, 2018, 07:17:44 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on August 09, 2018, 07:17:59 PM
i'm a fan of tay-tay's
signature
Post by: PurpleOil on August 10, 2018, 07:10:22 AM
Poor Riley. He just busts his ass 24/7/365 and he takes 10 minutes for a rough ridin' shower and then this hits. Kid can't catch a break.
https://twitter.com/Riley_Gates/status/1027650507630891010
(https://media.giphy.com/media/AEUsqXqGANZSU4H9ZK/giphy.gif)
So I took a look at this dude's twitter and FB accounts. I had never put the effort in before and just kind of let you guys fill me in on his happenings. Wow, that child is one soft sack of pathetic crap. I'm actually baffled that people are paying for his "professional" take on K-State sports.
Post by: Shooter Jones on August 10, 2018, 09:03:02 AM
Poor Riley. He just busts his ass 24/7/365 and he takes 10 minutes for a rough ridin' shower and then this hits. Kid can't catch a break.
https://twitter.com/Riley_Gates/status/1027650507630891010
(https://media.giphy.com/media/AEUsqXqGANZSU4H9ZK/giphy.gif)
So I took a look at this dude's twitter and FB accounts. I had never put the effort in before and just kind of let you guys fill me in on his happenings. Wow, that child is one soft sack of pathetic crap. I'm actually baffled that people are paying for his "professional" take on K-State sports.
Soft? lol.
(https://static.hudl.com/users/temp/4307082_98fc4745f39a4b59895ea2702561da3e.jpg)
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on August 10, 2018, 09:09:03 AM
Post by: PurpleOil on August 10, 2018, 10:00:44 AM
Post by: 'taterblast on August 10, 2018, 10:29:00 AM
Post by: wetwillie on August 10, 2018, 10:29:47 AM
Post by: kslim on August 10, 2018, 10:38:38 AM
Post by: DQ12 on August 10, 2018, 03:08:39 PM
Post by: SleepFighter on August 10, 2018, 04:18:27 PM
Post by: Woogy on August 10, 2018, 04:51:57 PM
Are his shoulder pads sweating?
That is not your problem. Actually, its not....
Post by: 8manpick on August 10, 2018, 05:34:28 PM
we should be nicer to the esteemed members of the K-State media.eff u
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on August 10, 2018, 05:42:49 PM
Shame this site has resorted to internet bullying
Agree