Bernie and fellow hate heathens trying to keep Christians out of government

[Emo EMAW]

I think a good person could, depends on the woman.  Christianity espouses forgiveness.  If the woman was repentant I think it would be Christian to forgive.

It would be Christian to forgive, regardless.

I think a good person could personally forgive her and still do their job and fire her.

I don't think so, Emo. There are no good nazis.

I certainly do believe there were good men who served in the Germany military in WWII.  Statistics would tell us that to a certainty.

[Cartierfor3]

Michigancat where do you draw the line about a claim of one faith being more true than another being a deal breaker for public office? If someone claims that Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hindu etc is the true way to eternal life or something similar to that is that person then unfit for public office?

I really don't know, and that's what makes this such an interesting discussion and one we should be having.

Where do YOU draw the line? I think it's obvious you think it's OK to say Christianity is the only path to salvation. You think it's OK to say Muslims and Jews are "condemned" because they don't consider Jesus a god. But what about someone's faith saying blacks have the curse of Cain and therefore can't be clergy or that God Hates mommies?

I dunno man. People in peaceful churches or religious groups are fine with me.

so no catholics allowed to hold office then?

Plenty of Catholics disagree with the policy. I mean, read the first line from the article RATM linked.

Its just such a massive leap to assume that someone would hold a public government worker to the same theological/sexual ethic/philosophical standard that they hold someone employed by the church or private evangelical college or whatever to.

Your faith is so strong that you think it's acceptable to fire the pregnant woman from the church, but not important enough to fire the pregnant woman from government? How strong is your faith, in that case, really?

I read the link, and I'd side with the not firing crowd too. As far as the second comment. I'd assume a person could separate the decision to hire a person to be a catholic school teacher who's job it is to make the kids educated in Catholicism and the decision to hire a person to like, oversee the sewer system or something.

[420seriouscat69]

lib7, RATM, abe, WC08, dax, etc how do you guys do this all day. the pit is exhausting.

Some days you just have to take a breather. Yesterday was not the day however.

[michigancat]

I dunno man. People in peaceful churches or religious groups are fine with me.

As far as I know, Fred Phelps was never violent.

I read the link, and I'd side with the not firing crowd too. As far as the second comment. I'd assume a person could separate the decision to hire a person to be a catholic school teacher who's job it is to make the kids educated in Catholicism and the decision to hire a person to like, oversee the sewer system or something.

Why would you assume that? Wouldn't you assume SOME of that faith would carry over? And what if the job is to educate children in physical education?

[Cartierfor3]

I dunno man. People in peaceful churches or religious groups are fine with me.

As far as I know, Fred Phelps was never violent.

I read the link, and I'd side with the not firing crowd too. As far as the second comment. I'd assume a person could separate the decision to hire a person to be a catholic school teacher who's job it is to make the kids educated in Catholicism and the decision to hire a person to like, oversee the sewer system or something.

Why would you assume that? Wouldn't you assume SOME of that faith would carry over? And what if the job is to educate children in physical education?

of course some of their faith would carry over. some of Bernie Sanders and Barack Obama's and Donald Trump's and every other politician's moral religiosity carries over into their work.

[Dugout DickStone]

I would say that DJT's isn't carrying over

[Cartierfor3]

I would say that DJT's isn't carrying over

oh it 100% is. his God is himself.

[DQ12]

I think there's a distinction between our "fired for being pregnant" issue (which, as a Catholic, I disagree with) and the "fired for symbolically displaying a conflicting theological philosophy" scenarios.

I think something that amounts to heresy is fundamentally different than other types of transgressions on the level of a pregnancy outside of marriage.  One occurred in the past, the other is one of a continuing nature.  If the pregnant teacher went around wearing a shirt every day that said "Sex outside of marriage is a good thing to do!" then I think we're starting to compare apples with apples. 

Also, as Cartier said, a lot of religious people (most?) are pretty good about actually treating members of other religions fairly and with dignity, despite what they believe may happen to them in the afterlife. 

[cfbandyman]

I would say that DJT's isn't carrying over

oh it 100% is. his God is himself.

2 Corinths

[Rage Against the McKee]

I would say that DJT's isn't carrying over

oh it 100% is. his God is himself.

2 Corinths

That's the whole ball game.

[michigancat]

I think there's a distinction between our "fired for being pregnant" issue (which, as a Catholic, I disagree with) and the "fired for symbolically displaying a conflicting theological philosophy" scenarios.

I think something that amounts to heresy is fundamentally different than other types of transgressions on the level of a pregnancy outside of marriage.  One occurred in the past, the other is one of a continuing nature.  If the pregnant teacher went around wearing a shirt every day that said "Sex outside of marriage is a good thing to do!" then I think we're starting to compare apples with apples. 

Yeah I think if someone was fired for speaking out against the curse of Cain doctrine in the LDS church in the 1970's it would be more analogous to what this woman was fired for. (Not identical, but closer).

Also, as Cartier said, a lot of religious people (most?) are pretty good about actually treating members of other religions fairly and with dignity, despite what they believe may happen to them in the afterlife. 

Agreed! IMO this Vought guy just happened to creep very close to or in the gray area of no longer treating other religions fairly and with dignity when he wrote his blog post. If he'd just been an alumnus who declined to comment on the situation we wouldn't be having the conversation.

[DQ12]

Yeah. 

Fundamentally, I think we're all very close to agreeing on this.  If this Vought fella is going to treat people differently based on their religion, then he shouldn't be holding any public office (much less a high profile one).  We just differ on whether or not his comments re. Wheaton College indicate whether he's likely to do that. 

Regardless, I agree: Given his political ambitions, it would've been wise of him to just keep his mouth shut.  Nobody would've faulted him for not commenting on the issue. 

This was a fun chat between great Cats.

[michigancat]

Yeah. 

Fundamentally, I think we're all very close to agreeing on this.  If this Vought fella is going to treat people differently based on their religion, then he shouldn't be holding any public office (much less a high profile one).  We just differ on whether or not his comments re. Wheaton College indicate whether he's likely to do that. 

Regardless, I agree: Given his political ambitions, it would've been wise of him to just keep his mouth shut.  Nobody would've faulted him for not commenting on the issue. 

This was a fun chat between great Cats.

[sonofdaxjones]

Weird stuff to get all worked up about.  But, good job anyway, guys.

[sonofdaxjones]

Oh I forgot to add, that Bernie Sanders (as he often is) was way, way out-of-bounds with his line of questioning.

I'm stunned (but not the least bit surprised) that so many on here had to clutter up so many pages to debate that fact, and then throw, like, oh, like a couple of thousand strawmen into the equation.

But, as I said.  Great work everybody!   

[cfbandyman]

Weird stuff to get all worked up about.  But, good job anyway, guys.

Coming from the king of getting worked up about weird stuff, this is pretty great

[sonofdaxjones]

Weird stuff to get all worked up about.  But, good job anyway, guys.

Coming from the king of getting worked up about weird stuff, this is pretty great

Nah, this was weird.  But thanks for the effort.

[The Big Train]

DaxBot stuck in recursive mode

[sonofdaxjones]

DaxBot stuck in recursive mode

TBT simpleton just keeps firing from the cheap seats. 

So angry

[SdK]

DaxBot stuck in recursive mode

TBT simpleton just keeps firing from the cheap seats. 

So angry

Isn't higher ground advantageous?

[slackcat]

Bernie Sanders quote defending himself.
"I’m not the most religious of folks. I don’t know if heaven exists. But if it does, then everybody has the right to eternal life there. Nobody should be “condemned” just because he doesn’t have enough money or the right skin color or doesn’t believe in the God who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Whoever God is, I am certain that he/she/zir will save everyone, and nothing will ever convince me otherwise, not even God explicitly telling me that those who reject the salvation of Jesus will not be saved."


Give a man enough rope... 

[Emo EMAW]

I believe even John McCain has recently shown more prescience than off-his-rocker-Sanders.

[camKSU]

Bernie Sanders quote defending himself.
"I’m not the most religious of folks. I don’t know if heaven exists. But if it does, then everybody has the right to eternal life there. Nobody should be “condemned” just because he doesn’t have enough money or the right skin color or doesn’t believe in the God who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Whoever God is, I am certain that he/she/zir will save everyone, and nothing will ever convince me otherwise, not even God explicitly telling me that those who reject the salvation of Jesus will not be saved."


Give a man enough rope... 

Sounds fine to me. Pretty inclusive belief that if there is a "god" and "afterlife" then all people would get to go to heaven. Now about those other religions whose beliefs "condemn" other people to "hell" if they deny their form of "god"... That's pretty rough ridin' stupid.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I don't agree with Bernie, but he's entitled to his religious beliefs just like everyone else.

[sonofdaxjones]

I want Cam to write out the Secularist determination test for positions of governance.

It does seem weird that CAM's hero by action and deed pretty much sought to destroy all remnants of secularist oriented regimes in the Middle East, while supporting some of the most extreme fundamentalist regimes in the world.   They same guys absolutely hate Israel the last vestige of Judah-Christian but highly secularist country left in the Middle East.  But, I digress.