Is it fair for Transgenders to compete in sports as who they think they are? No

[Trim]

Lol at bike roller derby calling one of their divisions "elite."

That said, I agree that all cycling by all genders should be on remote dirt tracks far removed from regular pedestrians.

[passranch]

Look at mich and cf3 chasing each other around like school girls, smdh

It's been a refreshing change of pace, TBH.

[Cartierfor3]

Just my interpretation, but I think what CF3 was trying to convey was “even though this doesn’t affect me in any meaningful way, I don’t like this, but I’m not sure how to articulate why it bothers me without sounding like a transphobe”

Na. My original post was because I saw this thread had some action and I thought "hey, maybe there's some interesting discussion in here" only to see it was the usual pit trash that comes with the pit. So I posted that the silly pit'ing is lame. Then Rusty asked my opinion on the bike race and I shared that if I was involved I'd probably feel like it was unfair, which to Rusty was a gotcha moment for whatever reason.

Also, all of us have opinions on things that don't affect us in any meaningful way, and that's ok.

I don't think you want to have a sincere discussion about transgender rights any more than dax does, and that's OK.

I'm sincere, and I'm not trolling anyone. I bet we'd come to different conclusions however.

[Cartierfor3]

Just my interpretation, but I think what CF3 was trying to convey was “even though this doesn’t affect me in any meaningful way, I don’t like this, but I’m not sure how to articulate why it bothers me without sounding like a transphobe”

Na. My original post was because I saw this thread had some action and I thought "hey, maybe there's some interesting discussion in here" only to see it was the usual pit trash that comes with the pit. So I posted that the silly pit'ing is lame. Then Rusty asked my opinion on the bike race and I shared that if I was involved I'd probably feel like it was unfair, which to Rusty was a gotcha moment for whatever reason.

Also, all of us have opinions on things that don't affect us in any meaningful way, and that's ok.

There are a lot of things in sports that are so called unfair. Why does a local bike race have a larger significance/ platform than any other unfair situations in sports? What's a more common unjust situation in our society? A trans woman winning a bike race or underfunded city athletic programs forced to play on the same field as suburban schools who get a disproportionate amount of local and state funding? What's more damaging to the psyche and physical well being of the competitors, a 37 year old woman finishing third instead of second in a bike race or a 15 year old, sophomore, 170 pound offensive tackle from KC Turner having to play a district game against a 280 pound junior who has 3 weightlifting classes a day from Mill Valley?

It's astounding to me the disproportionate amount of care and attention that trans women in sports get, it's really hard to believe the issue is simply about fairness, not when we're treating 9th grade c team volleyball players like they're a threat to public safety.

I'm all for having discussions about the inequity in sports. Let's start a thread on it. I have about an up close a view of it as anyone you know.

[MakeItRain]

Just my interpretation, but I think what CF3 was trying to convey was “even though this doesn’t affect me in any meaningful way, I don’t like this, but I’m not sure how to articulate why it bothers me without sounding like a transphobe”

Na. My original post was because I saw this thread had some action and I thought "hey, maybe there's some interesting discussion in here" only to see it was the usual pit trash that comes with the pit. So I posted that the silly pit'ing is lame. Then Rusty asked my opinion on the bike race and I shared that if I was involved I'd probably feel like it was unfair, which to Rusty was a gotcha moment for whatever reason.

Also, all of us have opinions on things that don't affect us in any meaningful way, and that's ok.

There are a lot of things in sports that are so called unfair. Why does a local bike race have a larger significance/ platform than any other unfair situations in sports? What's a more common unjust situation in our society? A trans woman winning a bike race or underfunded city athletic programs forced to play on the same field as suburban schools who get a disproportionate amount of local and state funding? What's more damaging to the psyche and physical well being of the competitors, a 37 year old woman finishing third instead of second in a bike race or a 15 year old, sophomore, 170 pound offensive tackle from KC Turner having to play a district game against a 280 pound junior who has 3 weightlifting classes a day from Mill Valley?

It's astounding to me the disproportionate amount of care and attention that trans women in sports get, it's really hard to believe the issue is simply about fairness, not when we're treating 9th grade c team volleyball players like they're a threat to public safety.

I'm all for having discussions about the inequity in sports. Let's start a thread on it. I have about an up close a view of it as anyone you know.

I'm wholly uninterested in discussing the inquiry of sports. My point is that it's competition and having inequity baked in is part of the deal, no matter the city, state, and country, no matter the level of play. The focus on trans girls playing sports has nothing to do with inequities because we've tolerated them as long as we've watched sports and we'll continue to do so. The amount of attention that the rare possible inequity of trans girls in sports play is minor at it's greatest, microscopic nearly all of the time, yet the attention it gets is completely out of wack.

If you have an up close view of inequity in sports, as anyone I know, it seems you're the perfect person to speak to it.

[yoga-like_abana]

Agreed, why do you all keep bringing it up then?

[Cartierfor3]

Just my interpretation, but I think what CF3 was trying to convey was “even though this doesn’t affect me in any meaningful way, I don’t like this, but I’m not sure how to articulate why it bothers me without sounding like a transphobe”

Na. My original post was because I saw this thread had some action and I thought "hey, maybe there's some interesting discussion in here" only to see it was the usual pit trash that comes with the pit. So I posted that the silly pit'ing is lame. Then Rusty asked my opinion on the bike race and I shared that if I was involved I'd probably feel like it was unfair, which to Rusty was a gotcha moment for whatever reason.

Also, all of us have opinions on things that don't affect us in any meaningful way, and that's ok.

There are a lot of things in sports that are so called unfair. Why does a local bike race have a larger significance/ platform than any other unfair situations in sports? What's a more common unjust situation in our society? A trans woman winning a bike race or underfunded city athletic programs forced to play on the same field as suburban schools who get a disproportionate amount of local and state funding? What's more damaging to the psyche and physical well being of the competitors, a 37 year old woman finishing third instead of second in a bike race or a 15 year old, sophomore, 170 pound offensive tackle from KC Turner having to play a district game against a 280 pound junior who has 3 weightlifting classes a day from Mill Valley?

It's astounding to me the disproportionate amount of care and attention that trans women in sports get, it's really hard to believe the issue is simply about fairness, not when we're treating 9th grade c team volleyball players like they're a threat to public safety.

I'm all for having discussions about the inequity in sports. Let's start a thread on it. I have about an up close a view of it as anyone you know.

I'm wholly uninterested in discussing the inquiry of sports. My point is that it's competition and having inequity baked in is part of the deal, no matter the city, state, and country, no matter the level of play. The focus on trans girls playing sports has nothing to do with inequities because we've tolerated them as long as we've watched sports and we'll continue to do so. The amount of attention that the rare possible inequity of trans girls in sports play is minor at it's greatest, microscopic nearly all of the time, yet the attention it gets is completely out of wack.

If you have an up close view of inequity in sports, as anyone I know, it seems you're the perfect person to speak to it.

ok

only reason for that last part of my post is I officiate multiple high school sports now so I see it all up close.

[catastrophe]

Agreed, why do you all keep bringing it up then?

If you peruse this thread you’ll see that probably 95% of the posts are in response to a tweet or article posted by Wacky or Dax about some trans person winning in a women’s division of a random sport.

[michigancat]

Just my interpretation, but I think what CF3 was trying to convey was “even though this doesn’t affect me in any meaningful way, I don’t like this, but I’m not sure how to articulate why it bothers me without sounding like a transphobe”

Na. My original post was because I saw this thread had some action and I thought "hey, maybe there's some interesting discussion in here" only to see it was the usual pit trash that comes with the pit. So I posted that the silly pit'ing is lame. Then Rusty asked my opinion on the bike race and I shared that if I was involved I'd probably feel like it was unfair, which to Rusty was a gotcha moment for whatever reason.

Also, all of us have opinions on things that don't affect us in any meaningful way, and that's ok.

I don't think you want to have a sincere discussion about transgender rights any more than dax does, and that's OK.

I'm sincere, and I'm not trolling anyone. I bet we'd come to different conclusions however.

I don't think you're trolling and I think you're sincere in your beliefs, but I don't think you want to have a sincere discussion, mostly because you made no attempt to start one - you just looked down on anyone mocking dax. Which like I said, is fine, but is not an attempt at a serious, sincere discussion any more than dax's faux outrage is.

If you want my serious take on this cyclocross event, I honestly don't care what they do, even though other folks on the podium didn't seem to care that they lost to trans women. If they chose to ban trans participants, it would be a bad look but I still wouldn't care that much because it's a low-stakes event for adults and I'm OK with them setting requirements for participants. Plus as adults they can probably find an inclusive event or community elsewhere. I'm also OK with the international competitive cycling body setting whatever requirements they see fit. My issue comes with states banning trans kids from high school or youth sports, because it is intentionally being cruel for events that do not matter. That might be a little inconsistent but I think as adults there are fewer risks to the mental health of those excluded than for youth, and at elite adult levels there are more meaningful stakes if something is possibly "unfair".

[Skipper44]

Micat, has your daughter competed against a trans athlete in water polo? 

[michigancat]

Micat, has your daughter competed against a trans athlete in water polo?

There's a good chance but I don't know how I would know for sure. But she always practices with and sometimes competes with and against boys because there aren't enough competitive girls at her level.

[Cartierfor3]

Just my interpretation, but I think what CF3 was trying to convey was “even though this doesn’t affect me in any meaningful way, I don’t like this, but I’m not sure how to articulate why it bothers me without sounding like a transphobe”

Na. My original post was because I saw this thread had some action and I thought "hey, maybe there's some interesting discussion in here" only to see it was the usual pit trash that comes with the pit. So I posted that the silly pit'ing is lame. Then Rusty asked my opinion on the bike race and I shared that if I was involved I'd probably feel like it was unfair, which to Rusty was a gotcha moment for whatever reason.

Also, all of us have opinions on things that don't affect us in any meaningful way, and that's ok.

I don't think you want to have a sincere discussion about transgender rights any more than dax does, and that's OK.

I'm sincere, and I'm not trolling anyone. I bet we'd come to different conclusions however.

I don't think you're trolling and I think you're sincere in your beliefs, but I don't think you want to have a sincere discussion, mostly because you made no attempt to start one - you just looked down on anyone mocking dax. Which like I said, is fine, but is not an attempt at a serious, sincere discussion any more than dax's faux outrage is.

If you want my serious take on this cyclocross event, I honestly don't care what they do, even though other folks on the podium didn't seem to care that they lost to trans women. If they chose to ban trans participants, it would be a bad look but I still wouldn't care that much because it's a low-stakes event for adults and I'm OK with them setting requirements for participants. Plus as adults they can probably find an inclusive event or community elsewhere. I'm also OK with the international competitive cycling body setting whatever requirements they see fit. My issue comes with states banning trans kids from high school or youth sports, because it is intentionally being cruel for events that do not matter. That might be a little inconsistent but I think as adults there are fewer risks to the mental health of those excluded than for youth, and at elite adult levels there are more meaningful stakes if something is possibly "unfair".

Thanks for the response. Can you say more about the bolded sentence?

[michigancat]

I should rephrase it: The final results of high school sports do not matter - no one is losing a scholarship or prize money or whatever based on the final score or end result of a high school sports event. The competition and being on a team and part of a community do matter. Banning kids from teams and competition and community because they MIGHT impact results that really don't matter is especially cruel.

[MakeItRain]

Just my interpretation, but I think what CF3 was trying to convey was “even though this doesn’t affect me in any meaningful way, I don’t like this, but I’m not sure how to articulate why it bothers me without sounding like a transphobe”

Na. My original post was because I saw this thread had some action and I thought "hey, maybe there's some interesting discussion in here" only to see it was the usual pit trash that comes with the pit. So I posted that the silly pit'ing is lame. Then Rusty asked my opinion on the bike race and I shared that if I was involved I'd probably feel like it was unfair, which to Rusty was a gotcha moment for whatever reason.

Also, all of us have opinions on things that don't affect us in any meaningful way, and that's ok.

I don't think you want to have a sincere discussion about transgender rights any more than dax does, and that's OK.

I'm sincere, and I'm not trolling anyone. I bet we'd come to different conclusions however.

I don't think you're trolling and I think you're sincere in your beliefs, but I don't think you want to have a sincere discussion, mostly because you made no attempt to start one - you just looked down on anyone mocking dax. Which like I said, is fine, but is not an attempt at a serious, sincere discussion any more than dax's faux outrage is.

If you want my serious take on this cyclocross event, I honestly don't care what they do, even though other folks on the podium didn't seem to care that they lost to trans women. If they chose to ban trans participants, it would be a bad look but I still wouldn't care that much because it's a low-stakes event for adults and I'm OK with them setting requirements for participants. Plus as adults they can probably find an inclusive event or community elsewhere. I'm also OK with the international competitive cycling body setting whatever requirements they see fit. My issue comes with states banning trans kids from high school or youth sports, because it is intentionally being cruel for events that do not matter. That might be a little inconsistent but I think as adults there are fewer risks to the mental health of those excluded than for youth, and at elite adult levels there are more meaningful stakes if something is possibly "unfair".

Thanks for the response. Can you say more about the bolded sentence?

I addressed that in my last reply to you. If you're truly interested in a different view than what you hold, here are two very entertaining yet non preachy podcasts that supports rusty's point.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-teenage-athlete-at-the-heart-of-americas/id1685093486?i=1000628411965

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-reasonable-solution-to-the-transgender-athlete-debate/id1685093486?i=1000631843949

The second podcast also has an accompanying video. Also worth nothing that his interview with the teenager is the only show he's done that he didn't also do as a youtube. They didn't shoot video with her to protect her from all the good Christians who wished her harm. Pretty damn sad.

[michigancat]

Just my interpretation, but I think what CF3 was trying to convey was “even though this doesn’t affect me in any meaningful way, I don’t like this, but I’m not sure how to articulate why it bothers me without sounding like a transphobe”

Na. My original post was because I saw this thread had some action and I thought "hey, maybe there's some interesting discussion in here" only to see it was the usual pit trash that comes with the pit. So I posted that the silly pit'ing is lame. Then Rusty asked my opinion on the bike race and I shared that if I was involved I'd probably feel like it was unfair, which to Rusty was a gotcha moment for whatever reason.

Also, all of us have opinions on things that don't affect us in any meaningful way, and that's ok.

I don't think you want to have a sincere discussion about transgender rights any more than dax does, and that's OK.

I'm sincere, and I'm not trolling anyone. I bet we'd come to different conclusions however.

I don't think you're trolling and I think you're sincere in your beliefs, but I don't think you want to have a sincere discussion, mostly because you made no attempt to start one - you just looked down on anyone mocking dax. Which like I said, is fine, but is not an attempt at a serious, sincere discussion any more than dax's faux outrage is.

If you want my serious take on this cyclocross event, I honestly don't care what they do, even though other folks on the podium didn't seem to care that they lost to trans women. If they chose to ban trans participants, it would be a bad look but I still wouldn't care that much because it's a low-stakes event for adults and I'm OK with them setting requirements for participants. Plus as adults they can probably find an inclusive event or community elsewhere. I'm also OK with the international competitive cycling body setting whatever requirements they see fit. My issue comes with states banning trans kids from high school or youth sports, because it is intentionally being cruel for events that do not matter. That might be a little inconsistent but I think as adults there are fewer risks to the mental health of those excluded than for youth, and at elite adult levels there are more meaningful stakes if something is possibly "unfair".

Thanks for the response. Can you say more about the bolded sentence?

I addressed that in my last reply to you. If you're truly interested in a different view than what you hold, here are two very entertaining yet non preachy podcasts that supports rusty's point.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-teenage-athlete-at-the-heart-of-americas/id1685093486?i=1000628411965

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-reasonable-solution-to-the-transgender-athlete-debate/id1685093486?i=1000631843949

The second podcast also has an accompanying video. Also worth nothing that his interview with the teenager is the only show he's done that he didn't also do as a youtube. They didn't shoot video with her to protect her from all the good Christians who wished her harm. Pretty damn sad.

There actually is a video of the teenager, it's very well done.

https://youtu.be/nJc4hxxdCJ8?si=FdV9C1POjDeu6XEO

C43, I'd strongly encourage you to watch it

[Cartierfor3]

I'll watch but those are very long so probs gonna be a week before I reply about them go cats

[MakeItRain]

Damnit, now I gotta go find the tweet about the athlete not having a YouTube episode so I don't look like a fool. Thanks for the link though, rusty.

I'll watch but those are very long so probs gonna be a week before I reply about them go cats

I listen to this and all podcasts at x1.4 and watch the YouTube videos of this and all podcasts at x1.5

[Cartierfor3]

I've tried. I can't do it.

[sonofdaxjones]

I've tried. I can't do it.

It’s total whack-a-doo world. Avoid


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spracne]

I've tried. I can't do it.

It’s total whack-a-doo world. Avoid


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Listening at 1.4-1.5x speed? Try to keep up.

[star seed 7]

 

[sonofdaxjones]

It’s so important I’ve got to get through it as fast as possible so I can move on to something else to meltdown about . . . #blogkaren, MIR and #blueanongE

[Spracne]

Of course that's what you meant. Totally.

[sonofdaxjones]

I stand by my original warning of avoidance of #blueanon/#blueanongE whack-a-doo world . . . featuring #blogkaren and a host of others.

[sonofdaxjones]

I don't know why MIR, cRusty and others are always having a meltdown about this stuff.  You're getting your way, slowly-step by step

The cis-gendered females don't stand a chance.  They're silenced and shouted down.

https://reduxx.info/exclusive-women-abandon-brazilian-jiu-jitsu-tournament-after-being-forced-to-fight-males/

But despite claiming to have had a policy in place that required female athletes to be informed, many are coming forward to reveal that NAGA has continued to pair women against trans-identified males without their knowledge and depriving them of the opportunity to opt out in many instances.

Speaking to Reduxx, professional martial artists Jayden Alexander and Ansleigh Wilk highlighted their experience being made to fight against males with no prior warning until stepping onto the mat.

“I honestly never thought this would actually happen in a contact sport, especially not MY contact sport,” Alexander, who is a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu blue belt, said. “When I saw him, I was so shocked I didn’t know how to respond.”