Author Topic: Is it fair for Transgenders to compete in sports as who they think they are? No  (Read 42428 times)

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Offline Cartierfor3

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BAC no one is saying ALL BOYS are strong and faster than ALL GIRLS.


Offline Pete

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It's probably healthy for people to ask "Why do women's sports exist" and see whether they like their own answer and its implications. 

Offline Pete

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BAC no one is saying ALL BOYS are strong and faster than ALL GIRLS.

Macenroe once said that any given boys state champ from Connecticut could beat the williams sisters.

Offline Pete

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If it were just about athletic ability, then I am bummed that I did not get to play in a league with girls because I am not a talented youngster.

Offline Cartierfor3

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I watched a 5th grade boys basketball game followed by a 5th grade girls game. Even by then it’s a different game in terms of speed and aggression.

Offline Spracne

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Step numero uno should always be to assess the scale of the problem before inventing a "solution," particularly when the solution is pernicious and leads to FIFTY PERCENT OF TRANSGENDER YOUTHS ATTEMPTING SUICIDE. eff, people...

Offline michigancat

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Also I officiate baseball games and I'll show up to a 13U game and let me tell you, its the honor system. I have no idea if any kid is on the right roster or actually 13 or any of that, I just say play ball and call balls and strikes.

I think the difference between a 15 year old cis boy and a 13 year old trans boy playing in that game is there is a place for the 15 year old cis boy to play in.

Offline Pete

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Where do you guys think our country’s challenges with trans issues rank in overall divisiveness and controversy when compared to our country’s past issues with homosexuality, interracial relationships, female workplace discrimination, desegregation, and women’s suffrage?

Offline michigancat

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Where do you guys think our country’s challenges with trans issues rank in overall divisiveness and controversy when compared to our country’s past issues with homosexuality, interracial relationships, female workplace discrimination, desegregation, and women’s suffrage?
I don't think you can compare issues of different eras. I will say that I think the anti-trans laws conservatives have been passing is the most hateful, unnecessarily cruel movement in America today. I won't ever vote for anyone that supports this crap. (I also wouldn't vote for a politician who wants to restrict abortion access, but that doesn't seem quite as cruel to me as it might to others).

Not sure if tweets are working now but this sums it up well

https://twitter.com/calebsaysthings/status/1545212109490757633
« Last Edit: March 06, 2023, 07:50:54 PM by michigancat »

Offline Spracne

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Where do you guys think our country’s challenges with trans issues rank in overall divisiveness and controversy when compared to our country’s past issues with homosexuality, interracial relationships, female workplace discrimination, desegregation, and women’s suffrage?
I don't think you can compare issues of different eras. I will say that I think the anti-trans laws conservatives have been passing is the most hateful, unnecessarily cruel movement in America today. I won't ever vote for anyone that supports this crap. (I also wouldn't vote for a politician who wants to restrict abortion access is also bad, but doesn't seem quite as cruel to me as it might to others).

Not sure if tweets are working now but this sums it up well

https://twitter.com/calebsaysthings/status/1545212109490757633

You summed up my thoughts pretty well. It's not really possible to weigh historical contagions across generations, with the obvious exception of slavery and its vestiges, which do include miscegeny and segregation, so I would put those two first and then a bunch of ???? after that.

Offline Pete

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What about when measured by the social opinion hurdle that had to be overcome? 

Homosexuality was a big one for sure.  I remember when people were shocked Ellen was going to kiss another woman on TV, and years before that when Elton John came out. There was a lot of outcry at first.

Offline BIG APPLE CAT

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I think laws/rules are like comedy in that when it comes to punching down you probably just shouldn’t, and if you do then you better have a damn good reason (that reason probably isn’t good enough)

Offline Pete

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Poor boomers. They have had to deal with quite a bit of change.  More than any generation before them accept for maybe the last generation of Romans or something.

Offline Pete

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But, they started most of it, I guess.

Offline Pete

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The slippery slope of providing liberty.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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I would probably be in favor of laws for prisons remaining single sex

Oh, man. I get the sentiment, but I think there probably is a lot less abuse and rape sending trans women to women's prison than putting them in with men.

Offline Cartierfor3

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Why would you say that? Are male prisoners violent?

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Why would you say that? Are male prisoners violent?

About half of them get sexually assaulted outside of prison, and our prisons don't exactly have a good reputation there.

Offline BIG APPLE CAT

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Where do you guys think our country’s challenges with trans issues rank in overall divisiveness and controversy when compared to our country’s past issues with homosexuality, interracial relationships, female workplace discrimination, desegregation, and women’s suffrage?
I don't think you can compare issues of different eras. I will say that I think the anti-trans laws conservatives have been passing is the most hateful, unnecessarily cruel movement in America today. I won't ever vote for anyone that supports this crap. (I also wouldn't vote for a politician who wants to restrict abortion access is also bad, but doesn't seem quite as cruel to me as it might to others).

Not sure if tweets are working now but this sums it up well

https://twitter.com/calebsaysthings/status/1545212109490757633

You summed up my thoughts pretty well. It's not really possible to weigh historical contagions across generations, with the obvious exception of slavery and its vestiges, which do include miscegeny and segregation, so I would put those two first and then a bunch of ???? after that.

As with all things, I think it depends on what sort of outcome you hope to achieve. If one’s intention is to stand up and be counted on the right side of history, then tweets like that from our friend Caleb Hearon are an effective way of drawing a line in the sand, and declaring your Allyship in no uncertain terms.

If you want to try to capture hearts and minds, unequivocally declaring us vs them for those who do not share your ideology probably won’t get you very far in achieving that end. And I think in most cases you can have a pretty good sense if people are open to having their minds changed. Lots of the time, those folks are just looking to further galvanize their point of view. I wasn’t sure where CF3 was on this one, although I’m getting the sense that he is more open minded (to discovering new ways to reinforce his current position)

Offline Cartierfor3

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Dang man

Offline MakeItRain

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Where do you guys think our country’s challenges with trans issues rank in overall divisiveness and controversy when compared to our country’s past issues with homosexuality, interracial relationships, female workplace discrimination, desegregation, and women’s suffrage?
I don't think you can compare issues of different eras. I will say that I think the anti-trans laws conservatives have been passing is the most hateful, unnecessarily cruel movement in America today. I won't ever vote for anyone that supports this crap. (I also wouldn't vote for a politician who wants to restrict abortion access, but that doesn't seem quite as cruel to me as it might to others).

Not sure if tweets are working now but this sums it up well

https://twitter.com/calebsaysthings/status/1545212109490757633

Just pinned this.

Offline BIG APPLE CAT

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Sorry CF3, that was a low blow, and I apologize. Got on a little bit of a roll there. I guess I just haven’t seen you making much of an argument in support of your point of view, unless your point of view is just simply “I realize that banning trans women from competing in women’s sports will benefit a very small population, and I realize it will have a much more profound negative effect on an already at-risk and marginalized group of people, and I’m okay with that because…reasons”

Like as far as I know I’ve never met you IRL but you seem like a genuine, rational and kind person, and I’m pretty sure that you and I would get along just fine if we were to ever hang out…and for those reasons I’m trying to listen to your perspective because I don’t think you’re just a hate spewing bigot.

I’m hoping that what’s going on here, is that you know deep down in your heart that you are just a conservative by nature, and you also acknowledge that there is no room in the current Republican Party for any sort of compassion or humanity for trans people (I say this based on how they vote for legislation), so you are trying to find some justification for that point of view bc at the end of the day you aren’t going to change your vote and thus you realize that your are actively standing up to be counted with those who would happily snuff out the entire portion of the population. I would probably be doing the exact same thing if I was in your shoes, and good on you for at least taking a good hard look at it instead of just pretending it’s not a thing

Offline DaBigTrain

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I’ve hung out with CF3 a couple times IRL and enjoyed our interactions.
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Offline Cartierfor3

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Sorry CF3, that was a low blow, and I apologize. Got on a little bit of a roll there. I guess I just haven’t seen you making much of an argument in support of your point of view, unless your point of view is just simply “I realize that banning trans women from competing in women’s sports will benefit a very small population, and I realize it will have a much more profound negative effect on an already at-risk and marginalized group of people, and I’m okay with that because…reasons”

Like as far as I know I’ve never met you IRL but you seem like a genuine, rational and kind person, and I’m pretty sure that you and I would get along just fine if we were to ever hang out…and for those reasons I’m trying to listen to your perspective because I don’t think you’re just a hate spewing bigot.

I’m hoping that what’s going on here, is that you know deep down in your heart that you are just a conservative by nature, and you also acknowledge that there is no room in the current Republican Party for any sort of compassion or humanity for trans people (I say this based on how they vote for legislation), so you are trying to find some justification for that point of view bc at the end of the day you aren’t going to change your vote and thus you realize that your are actively standing up to be counted with those who would happily snuff out the entire portion of the population. I would probably be doing the exact same thing if I was in your shoes, and good on you for at least taking a good hard look at it instead of just pretending it’s not a thing

I haven’t voted for a republican in over a decade bro

Offline michigancat

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Who have you voted for?