For liberal pit'rs: The Silver Linings

[Emo EMAW]

FWIW, I consider union to be skilled work.  I'm not even talking about machinists or welders or pipe fitters or electricians or folks like that.  I'm talking about like the roofers, landscape folks, back kitchen workers, agricultural, etc.  Maybe I'm ignorant to the kids of jobs and wages the folks that walk across can get, but I just can't expect they're good jobs with good wages. 

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

That graph is absurd, 

Knock it off.

[ChiComCat]

I know the calculation would be a got'damned nightmare, but I assume the people in the lowest tax bracket aren't paying their share, and the people in the highest tax bracket are paying more than their share.  I think I saw something that the top 1% pay like 37% of the taxes? 

"In 2013, the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined."

The top 1% of Americans make approximately 20% of the income.  You can still say 37% in taxes is more than their fair share but I just thought your initial statement was misleading.

[Emo EMAW]

I know the calculation would be a got'damned nightmare, but I assume the people in the lowest tax bracket aren't paying their share, and the people in the highest tax bracket are paying more than their share.  I think I saw something that the top 1% pay like 37% of the taxes? 

"In 2013, the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined."

The top 1% of Americans make approximately 20% of the income.  You can still say 37% in taxes is more than their fair share but I just thought your initial statement was misleading.

Fair enough, but I don't think it's fair to correlate income with govt services consumed. 

[ChiComCat]

I know the calculation would be a got'damned nightmare, but I assume the people in the lowest tax bracket aren't paying their share, and the people in the highest tax bracket are paying more than their share.  I think I saw something that the top 1% pay like 37% of the taxes? 

"In 2013, the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined."

The top 1% of Americans make approximately 20% of the income.  You can still say 37% in taxes is more than their fair share but I just thought your initial statement was misleading.

Fair enough, but I don't think it's fair to correlate income with govt services consumed. 

Government services consumed is definitely higher for the very rich and the very poor.  I don't think sending a larger tax bill to the very poor is going to accomplish much.

[Emo EMAW]

I know the calculation would be a got'damned nightmare, but I assume the people in the lowest tax bracket aren't paying their share, and the people in the highest tax bracket are paying more than their share.  I think I saw something that the top 1% pay like 37% of the taxes? 

"In 2013, the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined."

The top 1% of Americans make approximately 20% of the income.  You can still say 37% in taxes is more than their fair share but I just thought your initial statement was misleading.

Fair enough, but I don't think it's fair to correlate income with govt services consumed. 

Government services consumed is definitely higher for the very rich and the very poor.  I don't think sending a larger tax bill to the very poor is going to accomplish much.

Agreed.  And that's why I'm concerned by a stream of (I assume) unskilled workers coming here and not making enough money to make a comfortable life, all the while depressing wages for people already here.  I know none of you are advocating for open borders or anything like that.  My point is that if we are going to spend money to reduce the flow of illegal immigration, and also spend money to increase the flow of legal immigration, we should prioritize people with skills to meet the higher paying jobs we have available and can't fill.

I honestly don't know how a household even making the median income can make ends meet. 

[Mrs. Gooch]

What services do super rich people use more of?

[Emo EMAW]

Defense is the first that comes to mind. 

[ChiComCat]

What services do super rich people use more of?

Defense and general infrastructure benefits them more by making their products/services accessible to consumers.  Was the intended point of Obama's "You didn't build that [the infrastructure]" speech that was taken wildly out of context.

[Mrs. Gooch]

What services do super rich people use more of?

Defense and general infrastructure benefits them more by making their products/services accessible to consumers.  Was the intended point of Obama's "You didn't build that [the infrastructure]" speech that was taken wildly out of context.

OK. But aren't those businesses using those services (mostly)? Should there be a distinction between businesses paying their fair share and rich people? Should the CEO who just makes $10 million salary pay more than his "fair share" than someone who owns a business and therefore isn't paying his "fair share" because the business is getting a lower tax?

[Emo EMAW]

Mrs Gooch I think you're focused on the wrong end of the spectrum, at least as it's relevant to the discussion on immigration reform. 

[Kat Kid]

FWIW, I consider union to be skilled work.  I'm not even talking about machinists or welders or pipe fitters or electricians or folks like that.  I'm talking about like the roofers, landscape folks, back kitchen workers, agricultural, etc.  Maybe I'm ignorant to the kids of jobs and wages the folks that walk across can get, but I just can't expect they're good jobs with good wages.

what in the hell are you talking about?

[Emo EMAW]

FWIW, I consider union to be skilled work.  I'm not even talking about machinists or welders or pipe fitters or electricians or folks like that.  I'm talking about like the roofers, landscape folks, back kitchen workers, agricultural, etc.  Maybe I'm ignorant to the kids of jobs and wages the folks that walk across can get, but I just can't expect they're good jobs with good wages.

what in the hell are you talking about?

I said it's impossible to raise a family on wages from unskilled work.  You posted a chart on unions, which to me represent skilled labor, and is therefore irrelevant to what I was saying. 

[ChiComCat]

What services do super rich people use more of?

Defense and general infrastructure benefits them more by making their products/services accessible to consumers.  Was the intended point of Obama's "You didn't build that [the infrastructure]" speech that was taken wildly out of context.

OK. But aren't those businesses using those services (mostly)? Should there be a distinction between businesses paying their fair share and rich people? Should the CEO who just makes $10 million salary pay more than his "fair share" than someone who owns a business and therefore isn't paying his "fair share" because the business is getting a lower tax?

For starters, what a "fair share" equates to is entirely debatable and I doubt Emo and I would agree on that.  I think how much a system benefits you can be used in calculating your fair share of paying back into that system.  The CEO and small business owner benefit from the system at much different levels. 

[Mrs. Gooch]

Mrs Gooch I think you're focused on the wrong end of the spectrum, at least as it's relevant to the discussion on immigration reform.

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just trying to understand the current dynamic.

[Kat Kid]

If you think that kitchen workers, agricultural workers and construction workers have not been or even are not currently in unions then it makes it difficult to have a conversation about whatever you are trying to talk about.

Also, I am trying to understand how you meandered from poor people needing to "pay their fair share" to "I honestly don't know how a household even making the median income can make ends meet. "  Are you really processing this stuff in real time?

[Asteriskhead]

don't make him cry, kk. play nice.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

What services do super rich people use more of?

Defense and general infrastructure benefits them more by making their products/services accessible to consumers.  Was the intended point of Obama's "You didn't build that [the infrastructure]" speech that was taken wildly out of context.

Claiming that speech was wildly taken out of context is pretty rough ridin' rich coming from one of the libtards claiming trump said "all mexicans are murderers and rapists"

[ChiComCat]

What services do super rich people use more of?

Defense and general infrastructure benefits them more by making their products/services accessible to consumers.  Was the intended point of Obama's "You didn't build that [the infrastructure]" speech that was taken wildly out of context.

Claiming that speech was wildly taken out of context is pretty rough ridin' rich coming from one of the libtards claiming trump said "all mexicans are murderers and rapists"

well this isn't true

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Stop grabbing your pussy and own it, hypocrite

[ChiComCat]

Stop grabbing your pussy and own it, hypocrite

Prove me wrong if you can, but I never claimed Trump said that.

[Emo EMAW]

If you think that kitchen workers, agricultural workers and construction workers have not been or even are not currently in unions then it makes it difficult to have a conversation about whatever you are trying to talk about.

Also, I am trying to understand how you meandered from poor people needing to "pay their fair share" to "I honestly don't know how a household even making the median income can make ends meet. "  Are you really processing this stuff in real time?

I'm saying they're unskilled.  I could give a crap if they're in a union or not. 

[sys]

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/

the "work off the books" part is perhaps dubious in the sense that if there were any employer e-verify system it would actually clear up a lot of it because of how almost all businesses run payroll.  Unclear to me how much that would really move people completely under the table or not.

there aren't good numbers given, for obvious reasons, but my impression of that article is that does not support your assertion that most work off the books and don't pay taxes.

[sys]

FWIW, I consider union to be skilled work.  I'm not even talking about machinists or welders or pipe fitters or electricians or folks like that.  I'm talking about like the roofers, landscape folks, back kitchen workers, agricultural, etc.  Maybe I'm ignorant to the kids of jobs and wages the folks that walk across can get, but I just can't expect they're good jobs with good wages.

most illegal immigrants that i've met work or worked in restaurants, construction or agriculture (but the ag part is overrepresented based on where i was meeting them).  some of the construction dudes make really good money, most of the others don't.

[Kat Kid]

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/

the "work off the books" part is perhaps dubious in the sense that if there were any employer e-verify system it would actually clear up a lot of it because of how almost all businesses run payroll.  Unclear to me how much that would really move people completely under the table or not.

there aren't good numbers given, for obvious reasons, but my impression of that article is that does not support your assertion that most work off the books and don't pay taxes.

that wasn't what I said.