Better or not?

[The Whale]

Does it matter if we finish 8th or 6th? Other than whatever garbage bowl we would go to that nobody watches? It kinda does I guess. Kinda.

It matters to me.

I'm definitely still in and I won't quit but if I were given a choice of 5-7 and a new staff or 7-6 with the same staff for 2017, I'm taking that 5-7 and running like Forrest Gump.

Instead we're going to get 6-6 and stories about how if Snyder could only get 6-6, we shouldn't expect any better.   

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Does it matter if we finish 8th or 6th? Other than whatever garbage bowl we would go to that nobody watches? It kinda does I guess. Kinda.

R U trying to set some kind of record for stupid rough ridin' questions? Take a lap, idiotface.

[MakeItRain]

Update:

Look at how much worse our offense is than it was last year. Man was I wrong when I stated that Ertz is clearly better than Hubener, egg on my face.
 

[steve dave]

debating whether hubener or ertz is better is like debating whether being electrocuted or stabbed with a knife is better.

[DQ12]

debating whether hubener or ertz is better is like debating whether being electrocuted or stabbed with a knife is better.

and saying one is "good" and the other isn't is confounding.  they're both really really bad. cc: MIR, Kslim

[bubbles4ksu]

i convinced myself that ertz was going to be good next year but he is fragile. i am so sad.

[MakeItRain]

debating whether hubener or ertz is better is like debating whether being electrocuted or stabbed with a knife is better.

and saying one is "good" and the other isn't is confounding.  they're both really really bad. cc: MIR, Kslim

But these numbers don't show that Ertz is really bad. I compared this year to Ell's first year and people freaked out but look at this chart, the two seasons the offense is most comparable to are the 1999 and 2001 offenses, Beasley's and Ell's first seasons. I've attempted to stop having this Ertz conversation because people are just completely unwilling to see what the stats are showing them when analyzing this. People can't get past stupid crap like "Iowa" or can't stop projecting their frustrations with the staff when evaluating this guy.

I'd love to see how Jonathan Beasley's completion percentage or Ell's propensity to give the ball away would be analyzed today.

[kso_FAN]

debating whether hubener or ertz is better is like debating whether being electrocuted or stabbed with a knife is better.

and saying one is "good" and the other isn't is confounding.  they're both really really bad. cc: MIR, Kslim

But these numbers don't show that Ertz is really bad. I compared this year to Ell's first year and people freaked out but look at this chart, the two seasons the offense is most comparable to are the 1999 and 2001 offenses, Beasley's and Ell's first seasons. I've attempted to stop having this Ertz conversation because people are just completely unwilling to see what the stats are showing them when analyzing this. People can't get past stupid crap like "Iowa" or can't stop projecting their frustrations with the staff when evaluating this guy.

I'd love to see how Jonathan Beasley's completion percentage or Ell's propensity to give the ball away would be analyzed today.

Absolutely.

Ertz is trusted because 1) the offense doesn't turn the ball over and 2) he doesn't bounce pass those simple throws like Hubes kept doing on now/bubble screen concepts. If Ertz improves in ability to hit some down field throws then he can be a very good player at QB.

Its very clear Hubes has made no improvement whatsoever. His in ability to hit simple throws hurt the offense over and over and those are mistakes Ertz hasn't made this year.

[kslim]

debating whether hubener or ertz is better is like debating whether being electrocuted or stabbed with a knife is better.

and saying one is "good" and the other isn't is confounding.  they're both really really bad. cc: MIR, Kslim

ertz isnt bad, he is however a piece of glass. If he can stop being scared and gain some confidence in his deep ball he will be very good. Hubes just isnt very good at anything other than getting lucky with a busted coverage

[MakeItRain]

The most frustrating aspect of the Ertz criticism, that is worth discussion, is that we act as if his accuracy isn't going to improve, what he is six starts into his career is what he is going to be. I realize that Hubener hasn't improved his throwing on short routes but that's clearly mechanical, Ertz does not have a noticeable mechanical flaw in his motion. I don't know which of the two said it, they rarely have a good point, but Fitz was on with Kietzman and one of them attributed his over throws on the deep ball to him not wanting to under throw and get the ball picked off.

[DQ12]

FWIW, I agree that ertz may be a good quarterback someday.  I acknowledge that first year quarterbacks under Snyder typically struggle, and then in their second/third years, tend to improve.  I think Ell and Waters are the best examples of this.

I'm just saying that this season, Ertz has been garbage. 

[michigancat]

The most frustrating aspect of the Ertz criticism, that is worth discussion, is that we act as if his accuracy isn't going to improve, what he is six starts into his career is what he is going to be. I realize that Hubener hasn't improved his throwing on short routes but that's clearly mechanical, Ertz does not have a noticeable mechanical flaw in his motion. I don't know which of the two said it, they rarely have a good point, but Fitz was on with Kietzman and one of them attributed his over throws on the deep ball to him not wanting to under throw and get the ball picked off.

Ertz isn't just inaccurate, he puts no touch on the ball. He just isn't very good at anything other than running in space.

[MakeItRain]

You really don't think he's accurate on short and intermediate routes?

[michigancat]

You really don't think he's accurate on short and intermediate routes?

I guess he's OK but I don't think he's noticeably better at this than his Big 12 peers. (KU/ISU nonwithstanding)

He also seems to force a lot of these (which could be very scheme related).

[Steffy08]

The most frustrating aspect of the Ertz criticism, that is worth discussion, is that we act as if his accuracy isn't going to improve, what he is six starts into his career is what he is going to be. I realize that Hubener hasn't improved his throwing on short routes but that's clearly mechanical, Ertz does not have a noticeable mechanical flaw in his motion. I don't know which of the two said it, they rarely have a good point, but Fitz was on with Kietzman and one of them attributed his over throws on the deep ball to him not wanting to under throw and get the ball picked off.

Ertz isn't just inaccurate, he puts no touch on the ball. He just isn't very good at anything other than running in space.

He appears to be insanely good at not turning ball over, particularly for a sophomore.

[michigancat]

The most frustrating aspect of the Ertz criticism, that is worth discussion, is that we act as if his accuracy isn't going to improve, what he is six starts into his career is what he is going to be. I realize that Hubener hasn't improved his throwing on short routes but that's clearly mechanical, Ertz does not have a noticeable mechanical flaw in his motion. I don't know which of the two said it, they rarely have a good point, but Fitz was on with Kietzman and one of them attributed his over throws on the deep ball to him not wanting to under throw and get the ball picked off.

Ertz isn't just inaccurate, he puts no touch on the ball. He just isn't very good at anything other than running in space.

He appears to be insanely good at not turning ball over, particularly for a sophomore.

Yeah he's been incredibly lucky in this department. He's made some terrible decisions that school have been picks but weren't.

[MakeItRain]

You really don't think he's accurate on short and intermediate routes?

I guess he's OK but I don't think he's noticeably better at this than his Big 12 peers. (KU/ISU nonwithstanding)

He also seems to force a lot of these (which could be very scheme related).

I agree with the first part, I'm not sure how much he forces though given he doesn't throw picks.
As far as the no touch thing, I do think there's some truth to that. I said last week that since I killed Hubener last year for the WR drops I have to do the same for Ertz. It seems as if he doesn't throw a ball that's easy to catch and I don't think you can act as if the drops are all the fault of the receivers.

[michigancat]

Maybe "force" is the wrong word. Just a lot of his shorter passes are to well-covered receivers whose defenders are not necessarily in positions to make interceptions, but can definitely make instant contact and break things up.

[steve dave]

I would put some stock in ertz getting better if I wasn't almost nearly 100% certain he will never stay healthy for long enough to improve.

[MakeItRain]

I would put some stock in ertz getting better if I wasn't almost nearly 100% certain he will never stay healthy for long enough to improve.

Fair.

[MakeItRain]

Someone observed before the season started that he is too slight to run this offense, this looks to be true. He clearly doesn't have the skill set to be a pro style pocket passer, so where does that leave us?

[star seed 7]

Proper mumped

[CNS]

With Hubes

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[catastrophe]

Well you either change the offensive identity to match the strengths of your QB, or you get a QB who works in the system you have. I think it's pretty clear we are not willing to do #1 at this point, and we have failed to recruit properly for #2. It seems to me we're still running the offense of Waters/Locket when we don't have either of those guys.

Our receivers are definitely much improved, though. I do like Pringle. Burton gonna Burton, and Heath/Zuber have both their awesome and WTF moments.

[michigancat]

I was wondering why we rarely seem to have receivers very open relative to the opposition and prior years. Is it primarily scheme, QB making poor decisions, or WRs running poor routes? It's some combo of the three, just wondering what is the driving factor was.  FAN?