Author Topic: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)  (Read 10890 times)

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Offline Pete

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #350 on: February 02, 2024, 10:42:33 PM »
When it comes right down to it, might actually does make right … or rights. This includes healthcare rights.
For the vast majority of our species’ time on this planet that has been the case.

The whole time. If you’re mighty enough you have the right to do anything you want. But the mighty can be benevolent and grant rights to those less mighty.

In the natural/material world we don’t have a right to healthcare or anything, unless someone or some group is mighty annd benevolent enough to enforce said right on our behalf.
You are not wrong. 

I think they probably meant “right” in the ethical or moral sense, and perhaps not in the legals sense.  But, if you are an ethical relativist then you are still right (wink wink, nudge nudge)!

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #351 on: February 02, 2024, 10:46:57 PM »
Ethically no one has a right to anything, but also ethically everyone should bestow things like food, water, shelter, healthcare, love kindness etc. to one another.


If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline Pete

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #352 on: February 02, 2024, 11:46:09 PM »
Ethically no one has a right to anything, but also ethically everyone should bestow things like food, water, shelter, healthcare, love kindness etc. to one another.
Hard to object to that.

Offline BIG APPLE CAT

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #353 on: February 03, 2024, 05:33:22 AM »
I suppose I can't really argue with any of that, I suppose I was just setting aside the Machiavellian aspects and accepting the framework of "if you are sick, there is an entire infrastructure in place which makes it possible for you to get better"

So in so much as you can accept the idea of healthcare being a thing that we have and need as a society/civilization...and then answering the question of how should this resource be allocated to The People.

But nic to your point regarding the benevolent Mighty, I don't think Healthcare is a resource that is possible for any one entity to hoard. I mean even looking at the world as it is today... For the most part the world seems to have agreed to operate under capitalism -- which would tend to treat healthcare as a luxury item only available to those with the means to pay for it -- there are many sovereign Nations where socialized medicine is the system in place and is unlikely to be dismantled anytime soon

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #354 on: February 03, 2024, 10:06:33 AM »
Those with the means to distribute and administer health care products and procedures could easily withhold it any time and any way they chose, unless someone mightier forced them to provide it.

If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline CNS

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #355 on: February 03, 2024, 12:10:29 PM »
Ethically no one has a right to anything, but also ethically everyone should bestow things like food, water, shelter, healthcare, love kindness etc. to one another.

Absolutely, assuming a baseline that is realistically below a first world country, let alone the richest country on earth. Realistically, healthy people are good for society.  We live in a world where it’s not too uncommon to hear about lost money due to storms, road damage or closures, and other things that disrupt the lives of those who produce. Loss of efficiency equals loss of opportunity, revenue, profits, growth, etc. unhealthy people are less predictable, as far as availability, less efficient due to that loss of predictive work, and therefore less productive than they could be. Our baseline is so high that we make the oceans safe for commerce for the whole world. Our baseline is so high that we give other nations money to defend themselves.  Our baseline is so high that a very large amount of the bleeding edge of the world’s innovation comes from here.

With a baseline like that, and given the actuality of what an unhealthy population means to a country, I disagree with the idea that no one has a right to health. We are all cogs in this wonderful machine. We are fools to not treat health as a right and upmost priority .  It is short sighted, greedy, and cruel.  With the ability to regulate the system we are continually kicking ourselves in the balls so that something around a few thousand people can get richer at the cost of individuals and the nation.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #356 on: February 03, 2024, 12:15:25 PM »
There are very few psychopaths that believe emergency care should be means based so really it's just a spectrum of where you feel medical care should be shifted to what the person can afford (or what the cost/benefit ratio to society is in publicly funded Healthcare).
Bingo. And this is really true of pretty much all policy. The question isn’t what services people deserve, it is at what point the government should step in to keep people from dying.

Offline Spracne

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #357 on: February 03, 2024, 12:34:32 PM »
Ethically no one has a right to anything, but also ethically everyone should bestow things like food, water, shelter, healthcare, love kindness etc. to one another.

Absolutely, assuming a baseline that is realistically below a first world country, let alone the richest country on earth. Realistically, healthy people are good for society.  We live in a world where it’s not too uncommon to hear about lost money due to storms, road damage or closures, and other things that disrupt the lives of those who produce. Loss of efficiency equals loss of opportunity, revenue, profits, growth, etc. unhealthy people are less predictable, as far as availability, less efficient due to that loss of predictive work, and therefore less productive than they could be. Our baseline is so high that we make the oceans safe for commerce for the whole world. Our baseline is so high that we give other nations money to defend themselves.  Our baseline is so high that a very large amount of the bleeding edge of the world’s innovation comes from here.

With a baseline like that, and given the actuality of what an unhealthy population means to a country, I disagree with the idea that no one has a right to health. We are all cogs in this wonderful machine. We are fools to not treat health as a right and upmost priority .  It is short sighted, greedy, and cruel.  With the ability to regulate the system we are continually kicking ourselves in the balls so that something around a few thousand people can get richer at the cost of individuals and the nation.

Well said, friend.

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #358 on: February 03, 2024, 01:24:46 PM »
Ethically no one has a right to anything, but also ethically everyone should bestow things like food, water, shelter, healthcare, love kindness etc. to one another.

Absolutely, assuming a baseline that is realistically below a first world country, let alone the richest country on earth. Realistically, healthy people are good for society.  We live in a world where it’s not too uncommon to hear about lost money due to storms, road damage or closures, and other things that disrupt the lives of those who produce. Loss of efficiency equals loss of opportunity, revenue, profits, growth, etc. unhealthy people are less predictable, as far as availability, less efficient due to that loss of predictive work, and therefore less productive than they could be. Our baseline is so high that we make the oceans safe for commerce for the whole world. Our baseline is so high that we give other nations money to defend themselves.  Our baseline is so high that a very large amount of the bleeding edge of the world’s innovation comes from here.

With a baseline like that, and given the actuality of what an unhealthy population means to a country, I disagree with the idea that no one has a right to health. We are all cogs in this wonderful machine. We are fools to not treat health as a right and upmost priority .  It is short sighted, greedy, and cruel.  With the ability to regulate the system we are continually kicking ourselves in the balls so that something around a few thousand people can get richer at the cost of individuals and the nation.

But in reality, we aren’t a very joyful, happy or healthy society and we’re getting less so.

Thinking of things in terms of rights, whether positive or negative, imo leads to less joy, happiness and health. We’d do well to start thinking of things in terms of honor and duty to others.
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline CNS

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #359 on: February 03, 2024, 01:53:52 PM »
Honor and duty are things that used to be held up as reasons to do things. The last several decades have made Americans aware that they are being taken advantage of when our leaders use those words.

Humans are animals. We are pack animals.  Unfortunately, we are accepting political parties and propaganda as our packs rather than actual people. We are considering what is good for that party rather than actual people.

Duty? We select our leaders through a filter that basically eliminates the likelihood that they ever even knew what that word means. Honor?  There is no service other than self service and cronyism in high level politics any more. I don’t know when there ever was but it’s not in my adulthood, for sure. I stated this as an absolute, realizing that there are surely some that are have good intentions, but statistically you need hundreds of them to have any chance at large changes.

Relying on hope and duty is giving up. The world doesn’t run on it. I don’t think it ever has. It’s a romantic notion that is useful to sway feeling in those you want to take from.  They are beautiful ideas but not useful, unfortunately.

Americans have to treat the things needed for a healthy society as rights, have to vote that way to gain those rights, or else those in power will ensure they are monetized without any actual care for quality or coverage.


Offline Spracne

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #360 on: February 03, 2024, 02:25:05 PM »
That's a quality deep thought, CNS.

Offline Pete

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #361 on: February 03, 2024, 06:58:40 PM »
Yep

Offline BIG APPLE CAT

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #362 on: February 03, 2024, 07:08:06 PM »
Yes, very well put by CNS, no notes.

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #363 on: February 03, 2024, 10:03:09 PM »
A populace made up of individuals more concerned with an honorable application of duty to one another than their own individual rights aka needs and, especially wants will be healthier regardless. I don't see how, regardless of governmental application, the desire to shift hearts and minds of the people to their own honor and duty to one another is giving up.

 

 
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline CNS

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #364 on: February 03, 2024, 10:55:56 PM »
A populace made up of individuals more concerned with an honorable application of duty to one another than their own individual rights aka needs and, especially wants will be healthier regardless. I don't see how, regardless of governmental application, the desire to shift hearts and minds of the people to their own honor and duty to one another is giving up.

The desire for that shift is not giving up.  It’s noble.  Relying on it as the way to make it all work out is giving up. I think you are discussing this philosophically and I am discussing the real world application of it, which are two different things. The former is a noble want, but our people don’t have it in them.

Look at the self proclaimed religious ppl right now. Philosophically, you would think they would have this code down and that love, honor, and duty would be everywhere.  How do you feel that is going? 

If we want things in our society, we need to establish those things as rights. We have been playing this governmental experiment long enough now to know that honor and duty can’t be relied upon to love the needle at all for the good of the ppl, trickle down economics doesn’t  work, and if you can make a lot of money by limiting the well being of others then people are going to do it.

Offline Spracne

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #365 on: February 04, 2024, 01:41:07 AM »
A populace made up of individuals more concerned with an honorable application of duty to one another than their own individual rights aka needs and, especially wants will be healthier regardless. I don't see how, regardless of governmental application, the desire to shift hearts and minds of the people to their own honor and duty to one another is giving up.

The desire for that shift is not giving up.  It’s noble.  Relying on it as the way to make it all work out is giving up. I think you are discussing this philosophically and I am discussing the real world application of it, which are two different things. The former is a noble want, but our people don’t have it in them.

Look at the self proclaimed religious ppl right now. Philosophically, you would think they would have this code down and that love, honor, and duty would be everywhere.  How do you feel that is going? 

If we want things in our society, we need to establish those things as rights. We have been playing this governmental experiment long enough now to know that honor and duty can’t be relied upon to love the needle at all for the good of the ppl, trickle down economics doesn’t  work, and if you can make a lot of money by limiting the well being of others then people are going to do it.

Word, brother.

Offline bucket

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #366 on: February 05, 2024, 09:00:22 AM »
https://www.instagram.com/p/C1q4EHttOn8/?hl=en

I saw a similar reel a month or two ago that may have done a better job putting this in perspective, but it helped me better understand the importance about getting the most enjoyment out of everyday and worrying less about the big picture and long term planning that consumes our lives. Like, we'll be lucky to be a distant memory to more than a few people in 50 -75 years so enjoy the little things and explore this beautiful world.

Offline Pete

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #367 on: February 05, 2024, 02:23:00 PM »
https://www.instagram.com/p/C1q4EHttOn8/?hl=en

I saw a similar reel a month or two ago that may have done a better job putting this in perspective, but it helped me better understand the importance about getting the most enjoyment out of everyday and worrying less about the big picture and long term planning that consumes our lives. Like, we'll be lucky to be a distant memory to more than a few people in 50 -75 years so enjoy the little things and explore this beautiful world.

I liked the phrase “if it is not going to matter in 5 years, don’t spend more than 5 minutes being upset about it.”

Offline Stupid Fitz

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #368 on: February 06, 2024, 08:41:49 AM »
https://www.instagram.com/p/C1q4EHttOn8/?hl=en

I saw a similar reel a month or two ago that may have done a better job putting this in perspective, but it helped me better understand the importance about getting the most enjoyment out of everyday and worrying less about the big picture and long term planning that consumes our lives. Like, we'll be lucky to be a distant memory to more than a few people in 50 -75 years so enjoy the little things and explore this beautiful world.

I liked the phrase “if it is not going to matter in 5 years, don’t spend more than 5 minutes being upset about it.”

Its a good one. I also like "don't worry about things you can't change". My own personal one I use a lot is "Well, I don't have a rough ridin' time machine, so lets just move on". A variation of this I use quite a bit that Mrs SF loves a lot is, "oh, crap, you found the time machine".

Offline Pete

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #369 on: February 06, 2024, 08:47:13 AM »
I'm butchering this, but I heard someone allegedly quote a buddhist thought leader saying that we should think of it as a blessing (or at least a "good thing") if we can't do anything about something that is troubling us, because now we can let it go and not worry about it.  They said way better than me.

Offline Spracne

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #370 on: February 06, 2024, 01:34:27 PM »
I'm butchering this, but I heard someone allegedly quote a buddhist thought leader saying that we should think of it as a blessing (or at least a "good thing") if we can't do anything about something that is troubling us, because now we can let it go and not worry about it.  They said way better than me.

But you showed humility, and I was still moved by it. That's what matters.

Offline pissclams

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #371 on: February 18, 2024, 07:56:20 PM »
i found this on reddit and thought it was interesting.



“As incomprehensible to us as airplanes are to ants.”

I like this phrase. An ant could be out in your yard when a jet flies over and not recognize the jet as a distinct part of the environment, much less identify as something artificial.

I wonder if there are aspects and characteristics, or even objects, in the universe that we are simply unable to comprehend in any meaningful way. There are questions we will never be able to answer because we can never know to ask them.


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

Offline Pete

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #372 on: February 19, 2024, 05:18:45 PM »
I hope so!

Offline BIG APPLE CAT

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #373 on: February 19, 2024, 06:38:23 PM »
With how vast the universe is, I think it is mathematically impossible that we (humans from earth) are aware of all the things that exist, have existed,or will exist. And quite frankly, I hope that’s the case bc otherwise what a waste.
Like the apex of existence is…a species that will happily have a gunfight to the death over how woke bud light is. No, no sir, I don’t think so

Offline Pete

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Re: Deep Thoughts (shower thoughts ok too but no Pit stuff)
« Reply #374 on: February 19, 2024, 10:24:04 PM »
I hope they make contact in my lifetime (or this simulation). So many other interesting things have happened in our world in our lifetime, eff it, let’s put the cherry on it.