Doug Gottlieb on 810 WHB The Program with Soren Petro

[kslim]

Well you are acting like you haven't seen crazy upsets under oscar

Hey, Altman beat 5 ranked teams in 4 seasons. 3 were Top 10 and KU was #1.

oscar has 17 wins over ranked teams in 4 2/3 seasons. 7 over Top 10 teams including #1 OU last year.

But yeah, Altman is known for his upsets and his great successes at K-State, including almost winning 35% of his conference games.

FWIW, Frank had 18 wins over ranked teams, 7 over Top 10, and 2 over #1. (for both, those rankings are time of game, not end of season)

oscar has been fine against Top 10/25 teams. Its the road wins (20% worse) and wins over #25-50 (12-15% worse) that are killing him.

honest opinion _fan, what i bolded would get most people fired after 4 years and no tourney wins correct?

[Cartierfor3]

Well you are acting like you haven't seen crazy upsets under oscar

Hey, Altman beat 5 ranked teams in 4 seasons. 3 were Top 10 and KU was #1.

oscar has 17 wins over ranked teams in 4 2/3 seasons. 7 over Top 10 teams including #1 OU last year.

But yeah, Altman is known for his upsets and his great successes at K-State, including almost winning 35% of his conference games.

FWIW, Frank had 18 wins over ranked teams, 7 over Top 10, and 2 over #1. (for both, those rankings are time of game, not end of season)

oscar has been fine against Top 10/25 teams. Its the road wins (20% worse) and wins over #25-50 (12-15% worse) that are killing him.

honest opinion _fan, what i bolded would get most people fired after 4 years and no tourney wins correct?

Not at K-State or most similar level programs.

[catastrophe]

oscar Weber will coach here until he decides he doesn't want to anymore. He'll make the tourney somewhere around 2-3 time every five years and probably will never win a game there. John Currie does not give a flying eff if we're competitive in basketball. He cares that the program makes a reasonable profit and stays out of the news. To pretend otherwise would to be as foolish as I've been this entire year. He's never going anywhere. This conversation is pointless.

I know this is a major go-to talking point on this board for why Currie sucks, but this is like, exactly what an AD's job is.

Keeping a program running clean has to be balanced with a commitment to winning at a championship level. I think we can all agree that John Currie has no intention of hiring a guy who will break any rules in order to win at a high level. It puts us at an enormous competitive disadvantage, which is exactly what every AD should be trying to avoid.

We're competitive at the only sport that really matters for revenue purposes.  For basketball, I think ADJC's only concern is having a clean program that has a chance at reaching the Tournament every year, which is what we've had. Do you think the bball program generated noticeably more revenue during the Frank years?

[kslim]

Well you are acting like you haven't seen crazy upsets under oscar

Hey, Altman beat 5 ranked teams in 4 seasons. 3 were Top 10 and KU was #1.

oscar has 17 wins over ranked teams in 4 2/3 seasons. 7 over Top 10 teams including #1 OU last year.

But yeah, Altman is known for his upsets and his great successes at K-State, including almost winning 35% of his conference games.

FWIW, Frank had 18 wins over ranked teams, 7 over Top 10, and 2 over #1. (for both, those rankings are time of game, not end of season)

oscar has been fine against Top 10/25 teams. Its the road wins (20% worse) and wins over #25-50 (12-15% worse) that are killing him.

honest opinion _fan, what i bolded would get most people fired after 4 years and no tourney wins correct?

Not at K-State or most similar level programs.

were we not an all time top 25 program just a few years ago? that bottom stat is embarrassing and we should expect better.

[kso_FAN]

Well you are acting like you haven't seen crazy upsets under oscar

Hey, Altman beat 5 ranked teams in 4 seasons. 3 were Top 10 and KU was #1.

oscar has 17 wins over ranked teams in 4 2/3 seasons. 7 over Top 10 teams including #1 OU last year.

But yeah, Altman is known for his upsets and his great successes at K-State, including almost winning 35% of his conference games.

FWIW, Frank had 18 wins over ranked teams, 7 over Top 10, and 2 over #1. (for both, those rankings are time of game, not end of season)

oscar has been fine against Top 10/25 teams. Its the road wins (20% worse) and wins over #25-50 (12-15% worse) that are killing him.

honest opinion _fan, what i bolded would get most people fired after 4 years and no tourney wins correct?

Yes, if the season ended today and we were out of the tournament I would fire him, especially given those numbers.

However, oscar has been given leniency because he was allowed to rebuild his roster after year 2. I know most here don't agree with that, but it is what it is. I think even Currie has raised his level of expectations for oscar and MBB at K-State, but this year may still meet those expectations. There is still 2/3 of the season left. I get that there is plenty of justification in assuming that these remaining 8 or so games will go the same way the last 2 seasons have gone, but the schedule is favorable. If he manages to simply win the games he should (4-5 of the next 7), then he will get this team to the tournament and if I was AD I won't fire him after that.

While Currie's expectations for MBB might not be as high as most people here, I don't believe they are as low as many think they are either. oscar will not keep his job if he continue to field non tournament teams.

[420seriouscat69]

Making a frequent trip to the tourney is all I expect as a K-State fan, with the occasional run every 4-5 years. I totally agree with you _fan, if oscar fails not to make the tournament this year, he can kick rocks.

[meow meow]

when is oscar's occasional tourney run?  can't wait! 

[pissclams]

no road game should be considered a game that b-ruce should win

[kso_FAN]

when is oscar's occasional tourney run?  can't wait! 

This is definitely a problem.

Besides the past suggesting he won't even get this team there, it is even more resounding that if he does we will be one and done. I can't and won't deny any of that.

[420seriouscat69]

Year 5, I expect him to make a run this year. Especially when his "A" game has beat what will be future 2-3 seeds in the tournament.

[yoga-like_abana]

whether we make the tourney this year or not I don't see the cats making another tourney until wade,brown,stokes senior year

[420seriouscat69]

I'm concerned about our bigs moving forward too, but maybe Love will workout and we are recruiting some juco bigs too.

[Trim]

KSU bought the 8th place bed and now must sleep in it.

it is very satisfying when people get what they deserve.

Big fan of justice.

[EMAWican]

   at a oscar team winning a road NCAA tourney game.

[420seriouscat69]

  at a oscar team winning a road NCAA tourney game.

It's all neutral, dummy.

[Pete]

KSU bought the 8th place bed and now must sleep in it.

it is very satisfying when people get what they deserve.

Big fan of justice.

Totally.  We deserve every single bit of this.

[renocat]

Fan and Wacky are coming out strong today.  Good and entertaining exchanges.  For speculation, do you all think we would have much exodus of current players or requests for release from LOI if we get a new coach.  We do have a good young nucleus started.  If a new coach comes in I hope the wantahead screamers give a new coach time for magic

[kso_FAN]

Fan and Wacky are coming out strong today.  Good and entertaining exchanges.  For speculation, do you all think we would have much exodus of current players or requests for release from LOI if we get a new coach.  We do have a good young nucleus started.]/b]  If a new coach comes in I hope the wantahead screamers give a new coach time for magic

FWIW, this doesn't matter IMHO.

The risks inherent with firing and hiring a new coach are never a good reason to keep a coach. Past hires not working out (Altman, Asbury, Wooly) are not a reason to keep a coach.

Please don't fall into that trap.

[_33]

Wacky, I don't agree with you but I recognize the validity of your point.  Diversity of opinion is a good thing and necessary to keep goEMAW a great place.  Let's agree to disagree and remain friends.

[420seriouscat69]

Wacky, I don't agree with you but I recognize the validity of your point.  Diversity of opinion is a good thing and necessary to keep goEMAW a great place.  Let's agree to disagree and remain friends.

If this was Facebook, I'd like this, friend.

[kso_FAN]

Wacky, I don't agree with you but I recognize the validity of your point.  Diversity of opinion is a good thing and necessary to keep goEMAW a great place.  Let's agree to disagree and remain friends.

wacky never lacks passion or conviction.

I agree that gE is a great place and variety makes it great.

[420seriouscat69]

I'm a die hard tuck, guys. Sorry, it's in my blood. 

[PIPE]

hey guys, keep all this talk going. I am really bored at work today and this banter is keeping me busy. Thanks.

[Cartierfor3]

Wacky, I don't agree with you but I recognize the validity of your point.  Diversity of opinion is a good thing and necessary to keep goEMAW a great place.  Let's agree to disagree and remain friends.

wacky never lacks passion or conviction.

I agree that gE is a great place and variety makes it great.

[420seriouscat69]

I can understand disliking a coach, but I guess I don't see how some of you can't raise a pulse after Saturday's road win. It makes me day dream of kicking some blue bloods ass in the tourney. I'm totally aware that Weber has unperformed there at K-State too. I guess I just kinda zone him out and focus on the players that I like.