Author Topic: politics of football (ban that crap)  (Read 28659 times)

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Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Football
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2015, 02:49:39 PM »
I don't know if you followed the 49ers in the off season, but a lot of adults decided to walk away after making that cash!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 04:44:42 PM by WackyCat08 »

Offline CNS

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Re: Football
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2015, 02:52:27 PM »
i imagine the problem will be solved by better helmets

Not unless better means different and different means less protective.  Supposedly, the issue is the slight movement of the brain inside the skull.  No matter how hard, protective, or whatevs, you make a helmet, you can't prevent what happens to the brain when the physics of it (once the brain is in motion, it tends to stay in motion) is what it is.  I mean, you would have to fix the brain to the skull, then package that in a helmet that wouldn't cause damage.  That isn't going to happen.

No.  Your physics and kinesiology understanding are bad.

Well, that sucks because the above described is paraphrasing of more than a couple doctor interviews I have heard in the last 2 yrs or so.

I mean, if you have an organ surrounded mostly by liquid inside an enclosure, then take that enclosure and speed it up a bunch and make it come to a sudden hard stop, the organ in the liquid is going to keep moving in that liquid until it hits the inside of the enclosure. 

Tell me why that is wrong using physics and kinesiology.

Momentum can be reduced through engineering/design (the energy transfer can be performed by objects other than the human body).  You can 'absorb' the impact and reduce the acceleration of the skull/brain.  It's not the sudden stop, it's the sudden start.  Generally, the issue is the brain impacting the skull.  But your inclination that it can't be reduced or eliminated is naive and a bit alarmist.

I am not a doctor, but I don't get why the sudden stop isn't an issue.  What is the top speed of an NFL corner back?  Whatever it is, when they reach that speed, their brain is traveling at that speed. When their head suddenly stops, how do you transfer/absorb impact enough over a distance of millimeters(?) to stop their brain from slamming into the inside of the skull? Such a method would have to be inside the skull to work fully.  It's like you in your car.  When you car smashes into someone, you go forward into your airbag/windshield/seatbelt/etc and can get hurt by impacting those things.  If we could design enough impact absorption over such a small space as the distance from the outside of a helmet to the outside surface of the brain, why have we not implemented such things in the much larger distance btwn driver and windshield?

Unless you mean, the sudden start of the brain to move forward after the rest of the body has stopped?  Am I not interpreting what you are saying?

Offline CNS

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Re: Football
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2015, 02:53:37 PM »
I never understood the bitching about concussions. Yes, they're dangerous to long-term health, but every player takes that chance when they sign up to play football and make a career of it. The athletes are not forced to play football, they choose to do it.


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I know plenty of ppl that have 5, 6, and 7 yr olds playing contact football.  If you do so, never perceive any personal harm, then get offered some mills to go play pro at 21y/o, have you made an informed choice? 

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Football
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2015, 02:56:22 PM »
What's the % of football players that end up with concussions? Like life altering, concussions? If my 7 year old wants to be active and play football, he can go for it. He'll learn a hell of a lot more about playing with a team, when it comes to the game of life vs playing video games and chasing puppies.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Football
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2015, 02:58:12 PM »

Offline EMAWican

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Re: Football
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2015, 02:59:33 PM »
K-State should be a founding father of new rule changes for #family #smalltownvalues that mimic 8-man football rules. Cut the field in half both ways and boom, less 'sgetti brains.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Football
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2015, 03:00:50 PM »
Football is doomed, will smith or not. Not worth it to sketti brains your kids
For every level headed parent, there's 3 X more rednecks that can't wait to shove their kid into a football uniform at age 2, to take care of Ma and Pa. This billion $ business is never going away.  :th_twocents:

I love this post

Offline joda

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Re: Football
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2015, 03:10:15 PM »
What's the % of football players that end up with concussions? Like life altering, concussions? If my 7 year old wants to be active and play football, he can go for it. He'll learn a hell of a lot more about playing with a team, when it comes to the game of life vs playing video games and chasing puppies.

Why do 7 year olds need to be playing tackle football though? Flag football would teach the same values and most of the same basic skills that they should be learning at that stage anyway. All without smashing into each other repeatedly when they're still trying to learn how to move properly.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Football
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2015, 03:13:09 PM »
What's the % of football players that end up with concussions? Like life altering, concussions? If my 7 year old wants to be active and play football, he can go for it. He'll learn a hell of a lot more about playing with a team, when it comes to the game of life vs playing video games and chasing puppies.

Why do 7 year olds need to be playing tackle football though? Flag football would teach the same values and most of the same basic skills that they should be learning at that stage anyway. All without smashing into each other repeatedly when they're still trying to learn how to move properly.
Oh, that's fine too. They don't need to play tackle. I did flag football all the way up till 5th or 6th grade (can't remember)? It was depressing tho. I was way better at flag football, because I didn't like the contact.

Offline Pete

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Re: Football
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2015, 03:15:53 PM »
Can't we just solve this with waivers, such as those that are used at the bounce house kids party places?

Offline DQ12

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Re: Football
« Reply #60 on: November 30, 2015, 03:16:51 PM »
I never understood the bitching about concussions. Yes, they're dangerous to long-term health, but every player takes that chance when they sign up to play football and make a career of it. The athletes are not forced to play football, they choose to do it.


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I generally agree that when someone knowingly takes the risk to do something, they can't complain about the consequences.  It becomes a problem, though, when the NFL or other organizations actively suppress research findings re. the risk of playing football.


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Offline Pendergast

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Re: Football
« Reply #61 on: November 30, 2015, 03:18:37 PM »

I am not a doctor, but I don't get why the sudden stop isn't an issue.  What is the top speed of an NFL corner back?  Whatever it is, when they reach that speed, their brain is traveling at that speed. When their head suddenly stops, how do you transfer/absorb impact enough over a distance of millimeters(?) to stop their brain from slamming into the inside of the skull? Such a method would have to be inside the skull to work fully.  It's like you in your car.  When you car smashes into someone, you go forward into your airbag/windshield/seatbelt/etc and can get hurt by impacting those things.  If we could design enough impact absorption over such a small space as the distance from the outside of a helmet to the outside surface of the brain, why have we not implemented such things in the much larger distance btwn driver and windshield?

Unless you mean, the sudden start of the brain to move forward after the rest of the body has stopped?  Am I not interpreting what you are saying?

Generally speaking, the deceleration and forces created by such are less than those of the acceleration caused by impact.  In general, the helmet is round.  there are no brick walls on a football field.  The helmet is accelerated in a direction on impact.  It's somewhat semantics, but you're not far off.

As far as Automobiles, air bags are highly sophisticated and save countless lives every day.  I hope you're not implying that technology is sub-par.  Further, drivers would refuse to wear any apparatus, as shown by our less than stellar track record with seat belts.  Automotive engineers are limited to the vehicle, and cannot do much of anything with the occupant.

Offline Bqqkie Pimp

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Re: Football
« Reply #62 on: November 30, 2015, 03:19:15 PM »
What's the % of football players that end up with concussions? Like life altering, concussions? If my 7 year old wants to be active and play football, he can go for it. He'll learn a hell of a lot more about playing with a team, when it comes to the game of life vs playing video games and chasing puppies.

Why do 7 year olds need to be playing tackle football though? Flag football would teach the same values and most of the same basic skills that they should be learning at that stage anyway. All without smashing into each other repeatedly when they're still trying to learn how to move properly.

Game of preference for those who want to play...

There are youth sports opportunities for virtually EVERY sport starting at about age 5. Up north, they have kids on skates playing hockey shortly after they learn to walk and I'm sure damn near every kid in Kansas at least has a place to play soccer and/or hoops at age 5.

The incidents of concussion in those sports is as high or higher depending on whose stats you believe. FWIW, I'm of the belief that taking all the "protective gear" off of kids under age 10 would make tackle football a safer game.

Which of you didn't play "pickup games" of tackle football at that age?  There's really no need for helmets, shoulder pads, etc. for kids that young.   :th_twocents:
bears are fast...

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Football
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2015, 03:21:11 PM »
The NFL's own television partners are running ads for the upcoming concussion movie.

Given that football will be extinct in a few decades:

1) Should we just let the Snyder family tree ride it out?
2) What should we do w/BSFS at that point?

1) nah. Spend the last remaining years throwing stupid money at home run hires. Just seems the most fun.
2) somehow become the most elite college soccer fanbase ever. Watching tucks struggle with the psychological leap to do this has its own entertainment value.

Doesn't soccer have nearly as many head injuries as football? Also, that Concussion movie looks like hot garbage.

I think our biggest fear remains conference reallignment - not death of the sport.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Football
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2015, 03:37:57 PM »
The NFL's own television partners are running ads for the upcoming concussion movie.

Given that football will be extinct in a few decades:

1) Should we just let the Snyder family tree ride it out?
2) What should we do w/BSFS at that point?

1) nah. Spend the last remaining years throwing stupid money at home run hires. Just seems the most fun.
2) somehow become the most elite college soccer fanbase ever. Watching tucks struggle with the psychological leap to do this has its own entertainment value.

Doesn't soccer have nearly as many head injuries as football? Also, that Concussion movie looks like hot garbage.

I think our biggest fear remains conference reallignment - not death of the sport.
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Offline Big Sam

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Re: Football
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2015, 03:38:26 PM »
K-State should be a founding father of new rule changes for #family #smalltownvalues that mimic 8-man football rules. Cut the field in half both ways and boom, less 'sgetti brains.

Two Things:

1).  Having watched a ton of 8-man and 11-man football in my lifetime, my experience is that 8-man is far more of a "speed" game and there are some massive hits that go down with far more frequency.  I have seen far worse injuries, on average, in 8-man games that 11-man games.  May be my personal experience, but I do not believe my observations are unique.

2).  There are ongoing questions about the validity of some of the CTE data and studies.  In addition, the media hype around it has made for some pretty wild claims that others in the media run with to attract page views and viewers.  In addition, many of the studies are tied to researchers who may have an agenda.  I know Breitbart may not be a favorite of some here, but their sports site has a writer, Daniel Flynn, that has been a bit more aggressive in trying to look at the "evidence" out there, and some of the unsubstantiated claims.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/03/21/ny-times-articles-on-cte-outnumber-documented-cases-of-cte/


If you do a search for "CTE" on the site, there are many more articles that may be worth perusing.

Offline EMAWican

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Re: Football
« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2015, 03:57:21 PM »
K-State should be a founding father of new rule changes for #family #smalltownvalues that mimic 8-man football rules. Cut the field in half both ways and boom, less 'sgetti brains.

Two Things:

1).  Having watched a ton of 8-man and 11-man football in my lifetime, my experience is that 8-man is far more of a "speed" game and there are some massive hits that go down with far more frequency.  I have seen far worse injuries, on average, in 8-man games that 11-man games.  May be my personal experience, but I do not believe my observations are unique.

2).  There are ongoing questions about the validity of some of the CTE data and studies.  In addition, the media hype around it has made for some pretty wild claims that others in the media run with to attract page views and viewers.  In addition, many of the studies are tied to researchers who may have an agenda.  I know Breitbart may not be a favorite of some here, but their sports site has a writer, Daniel Flynn, that has been a bit more aggressive in trying to look at the "evidence" out there, and some of the unsubstantiated claims.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/03/21/ny-times-articles-on-cte-outnumber-documented-cases-of-cte/


If you do a search for "CTE" on the site, there are many more articles that may be worth perusing.

I'm proposing 22 men on a field smaller than the traditional 8-man field. 4.3 40 speed? PFFFFFFFF More like 2.5 15.87 speed.

Offline Trim

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Re: Football
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2015, 04:00:34 PM »
I don't think the quality of the movie matters.  I won't watch it because Will Smith.  But it's pretty wild to me that commercials for a movie that - via #acting now - characterize the NFL commissioner as a POS are airing during NFL games.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/11/29/nfl-airs-concussion-film-promo.cnn

Offline That_Guy

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Re: Football
« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2015, 04:06:16 PM »
Wouldn't you want to play on a bigger field to reduce concussions?


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Offline TownieCat

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Re: Football
« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2015, 04:12:34 PM »
Luke Wilson looks nothing like Roger Goodell. The casting director should've been fired for that.

Offline meow meow

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Re: Football
« Reply #70 on: November 30, 2015, 04:34:08 PM »
is football participation down yet in junior high/high school? 

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Re: Football
« Reply #71 on: November 30, 2015, 04:35:19 PM »
Luke Wilson looks nothing like Roger Goodell. The casting director should've been fired for that.

No crap... If they were insistent on using one of the Wilson bros, it would've been funnier to just use Owen.

 :lol:
bears are fast...

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Football
« Reply #72 on: November 30, 2015, 05:09:16 PM »
Luke Wilson looks nothing like Roger Goodell. The casting director should've been fired for that.

None of the people we know in that movie come close to resembling the people they play which leads me to believe that they aren't necessary looking for the hardcore football fan. Will Smith as Bennet Omalu visually :lol:

Offline Shooter Jones

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Re: Football
« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2015, 05:12:08 PM »
Luke Wilson looks nothing like Roger Goodell. The casting director should've been fired for that.

None of the people we know in that movie come close to resembling the people they play which leads me to believe that they aren't necessary looking for the hardcore football fan. Will Smith as Bennet Omalu visually :lol:


Offline meow meow

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Re: Football
« Reply #74 on: November 30, 2015, 05:28:04 PM »
can you imagine if they would have used Eddie Murphy instead of Will Smith!