thread to talk about obama being at fault for the paris terrorist attacks

[ednksu]

Whatever the end game is, it's going to be messy. There will no democracy in Syria because a free and democratic society is completely foreign to Arabs and Islam. But it doesn't really matter. ISIS must be obliterated. NATO can keep temporary security forces in place, but ultimately it will be up to the "Syrians" (or whatever that region becomes). If we have to go back in a few years and kill some more people, fine. The current situation is untenable. Responding with overwhelming military force is the only remaining solution at this point.

WHAT! You know that the US has overthrown legitimately elected governments in the ME right?  Maybe this kind of Islamofascism is a reaction to the West rough ridin' around in their affairs for the past 50ish years...

[sonofdaxjones]

I'm not going to take every point, because this is getting absurd.   It's absolutely immaterial (and yet still another captain obvious point) that Libya and Syria are two different countries.   Foreign media has accounts of Yugoslavian made weapons sold to Libya in the 90's turning up on battlefields in Syria.   Foreign and U.S. media was all over the fact that the Benghazi area was an active AQ region and that Western Intelligence entities may have been and likely were recruiting in the area to send those fighters into Syria.   There was a massive influx of foreign fighters (brought in by whom?  supported by whom?  armed by whom?  provided air cover by whom?) during the overthrow of Libyan government.   Foreign media was all over those same combatants ultimately turning back up in Syria.  It takes logistical capabilities that only a few countries can provide to move those numbers of fighters and keep them fed, and armed/equipped.   

Where have I said that Brown Muslims are to blame for everything, I have clearly said repeatedly who is ultimately to blame.   You have no standing on this issue when you just make up crap.

[DQ12]

Russia having such close ties to Assad makes this all even more complicated. I mean I guess the easiest thing to do is go in there, take out ISIS and leave Syria to Assad. It's an awful plan but its better than staying there and trying to build a nation.

I'm interested to see what Putin and Obama have "agreed" to regarding a political process in Syria.  Gotta love G8 countries being "the decider" for other countries.

I too find it unsavory, but I can't think of another tenable option.  What process would you prefer? 

Whatever the end game is, it's going to be messy. There will no democracy in Syria because a free and democratic society is completely foreign to Arabs and Islam. But it doesn't really matter. ISIS must be obliterated. NATO can keep temporary security forces in place, but ultimately it will be up to the "Syrians" (or whatever that region becomes). If we have to go back in a few years and kill some more people, fine. The current situation is untenable. Responding with overwhelming military force is the only remaining solution at this point.

WHAT! You know that the US has overthrown legitimately elected governments in the ME right?  Maybe this kind of Islamofascism is a reaction to the West rough ridin' around in their affairs for the past 50ish years...

Listen, I agree with what you're saying, but you can't put pandora back in the box.  We're here right now and I don't think pointing the finger backwards at the West's stupid 20th/21st century policy in the Middle East helps to solve the ISIS problem.

[ednksu]

I'm not going to take every point, because this is getting absurd.   It's absolutely immaterial (and yet still another captain obvious point) that Libya and Syria are two different countries.   Foreign media has accounts of Yugoslavian made weapons sold to Libya in the 90's turning up on battlefields in Syria.   Foreign and U.S. media was all over the fact that the Benghazi area was an active AQ region and that Western Intelligence entities may have been and likely were recruiting in the area to send those fighters into Syria.   There was a massive influx of foreign fighters (brought in by whom?  supported by whom?  armed by whom?  provided air cover by whom?) during the overthrow of Libyan government.   Foreign media was all over those same combatants ultimately turning back up in Syria.  It takes logistical capabilities that only a few countries can provide to move those numbers of fighters and keep them fed, and armed/equipped.   

Where have I said that Brown Muslims are to blame for everything, I have clearly said repeatedly who is ultimately to blame.   You have no standing on this issue when you just make up crap.

Dax you're a proven liar about your posting history here and have gone full idiot with your conspiracy theory crap. Go back to inforwars and get a new cache of material.  I'm done "thrashing" you.  It's just sad at this point.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Whatever the end game is, it's going to be messy. There will no democracy in Syria because a free and democratic society is completely foreign to Arabs and Islam. But it doesn't really matter. ISIS must be obliterated. NATO can keep temporary security forces in place, but ultimately it will be up to the "Syrians" (or whatever that region becomes). If we have to go back in a few years and kill some more people, fine. The current situation is untenable. Responding with overwhelming military force is the only remaining solution at this point.

WHAT! You know that the US has overthrown legitimately elected governments in the ME right?  Maybe this kind of Islamofascism is a reaction to the West rough ridin' around in their affairs for the past 50ish years...

Ah yes, the fiction of "legitimately elected..." Yes, Saddam was "legitimately elected." So was Hitler. You're so pathetic. You're the the sort of stupid that would believe a melting glacier in Greenland will raise sea level by 18 inches...

[michigancat]

Whatever the end game is, it's going to be messy. There will no democracy in Syria because a free and democratic society is completely foreign to Arabs and Islam. But it doesn't really matter. ISIS must be obliterated. NATO can keep temporary security forces in place, but ultimately it will be up to the "Syrians" (or whatever that region becomes). If we have to go back in a few years and kill some more people, fine. The current situation is untenable. Responding with overwhelming military force is the only remaining solution at this point.

WHAT! You know that the US has overthrown legitimately elected governments in the ME right?  Maybe this kind of Islamofascism is a reaction to the West rough ridin' around in their affairs for the past 50ish years...

Listen, I agree with what you're saying, but you can't put pandora back in the box.  We're here right now and I don't think pointing the finger backwards at the West's stupid 20th/21st century policy in the Middle East helps to solve the ISIS problem.

Maybe, but learning from stupid policies in the Middle East seems like a very intelligent thing to do. What has worked in the past, and why did most attempts to stabilize the reason fail?

(and i think EDN may be referring to the CIA overthrowing the Iranian government when Ike was in office)

[ednksu]

Russia having such close ties to Assad makes this all even more complicated. I mean I guess the easiest thing to do is go in there, take out ISIS and leave Syria to Assad. It's an awful plan but its better than staying there and trying to build a nation.

I'm interested to see what Putin and Obama have "agreed" to regarding a political process in Syria.  Gotta love G8 countries being "the decider" for other countries.

I too find it unsavory, but I can't think of another tenable option.  What process would you prefer? 

Whatever the end game is, it's going to be messy. There will no democracy in Syria because a free and democratic society is completely foreign to Arabs and Islam. But it doesn't really matter. ISIS must be obliterated. NATO can keep temporary security forces in place, but ultimately it will be up to the "Syrians" (or whatever that region becomes). If we have to go back in a few years and kill some more people, fine. The current situation is untenable. Responding with overwhelming military force is the only remaining solution at this point.

WHAT! You know that the US has overthrown legitimately elected governments in the ME right?  Maybe this kind of Islamofascism is a reaction to the West rough ridin' around in their affairs for the past 50ish years...

Listen, I agree with what you're saying, but you can't put pandora back in the box.  We're here right now and I don't think pointing the finger backwards at the West's stupid 20th/21st century policy in the Middle East helps to solve the ISIS problem.

I think we need to ensure the regime and the legitimate opposition are negotiating for a political solutions.  Kerry said they hope to do this by the end of the year.  That is the only path.  Get these groups talking.  Any group that doesn't show up gets on the target list.  Also push Assad and Iraq to allow unrestricted warfare, including international boots on the ground, to target these groups.  Anyone who interferes is subject to military retaliation.

To the second point, I'm not pointing a finger at policy missteps.  I'm pointing the finger at people who think Browns/Muslims can't embrace democracy.  The Arab Spring, much to Dax and other idiots shagrin, shows that democracy is possible in the region and needs to be nurtured.  The US needs to make sure we're backing legitimate reformers (not Maliki in Iraq again) and people will follow.  Security is paramount to get people trusting democracy again.  Essentially we need to learn from those prior policy mistakes going forward, something we've been very bad at. 

[sonofdaxjones]

I'm not going to take every point, because this is getting absurd.   It's absolutely immaterial (and yet still another captain obvious point) that Libya and Syria are two different countries.   Foreign media has accounts of Yugoslavian made weapons sold to Libya in the 90's turning up on battlefields in Syria.   Foreign and U.S. media was all over the fact that the Benghazi area was an active AQ region and that Western Intelligence entities may have been and likely were recruiting in the area to send those fighters into Syria.   There was a massive influx of foreign fighters (brought in by whom?  supported by whom?  armed by whom?  provided air cover by whom?) during the overthrow of Libyan government.   Foreign media was all over those same combatants ultimately turning back up in Syria.  It takes logistical capabilities that only a few countries can provide to move those numbers of fighters and keep them fed, and armed/equipped.   

Where have I said that Brown Muslims are to blame for everything, I have clearly said repeatedly who is ultimately to blame.   You have no standing on this issue when you just make up crap.

Dax you're a proven liar about your posting history here and have gone full idiot with your conspiracy theory crap. Go back to inforwars and get a new cache of material.  I'm done "thrashing" you.  It's just sad at this point.

Just a complete tap out.   

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/28/world/meast/syria-libya-fighters/

This guy has/had CIA written all over him
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-rebel-warrior-mahdi-al-harati-4018149

http://www.thearabdigest.com/2012/08/the-libyan-guevara-cia-and-irish-gypsies.html


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/22/world/africa/in-a-turnabout-syria-rebels-get-libyan-weapons.html

Who broke up the former Yugoslavia, who has the logistical capability to move this kind of weaponary?

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/25/weapons-from-the-former-yugoslavia-spread-through-syrias-war/

I can go on all day.

[mocat]

ksuw: Syrians are not Arabs

[ednksu]

I'm not going to take every point, because this is getting absurd.   It's absolutely immaterial (and yet still another captain obvious point) that Libya and Syria are two different countries.   Foreign media has accounts of Yugoslavian made weapons sold to Libya in the 90's turning up on battlefields in Syria.   Foreign and U.S. media was all over the fact that the Benghazi area was an active AQ region and that Western Intelligence entities may have been and likely were recruiting in the area to send those fighters into Syria.   There was a massive influx of foreign fighters (brought in by whom?  supported by whom?  armed by whom?  provided air cover by whom?) during the overthrow of Libyan government.   Foreign media was all over those same combatants ultimately turning back up in Syria.  It takes logistical capabilities that only a few countries can provide to move those numbers of fighters and keep them fed, and armed/equipped.   

Where have I said that Brown Muslims are to blame for everything, I have clearly said repeatedly who is ultimately to blame.   You have no standing on this issue when you just make up crap.

Dax you're a proven liar about your posting history here and have gone full idiot with your conspiracy theory crap. Go back to inforwars and get a new cache of material.  I'm done "thrashing" you.  It's just sad at this point.

Just a complete tap out.   

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/28/world/meast/syria-libya-fighters/

This guy has/had CIA written all over him
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-rebel-warrior-mahdi-al-harati-4018149

http://www.thearabdigest.com/2012/08/the-libyan-guevara-cia-and-irish-gypsies.html


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/22/world/africa/in-a-turnabout-syria-rebels-get-libyan-weapons.html

Who broke up the former Yugoslavia, who has the logistical capability to move this kind of weaponary?

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/25/weapons-from-the-former-yugoslavia-spread-through-syrias-war/

I can go on all day.

  "we" broke up Yugoslavia now?  Holy crap!!!!!    God this is great entertainment.  Please, do go on all day!

[ednksu]

ksuw: Syrians are not Arabs

shhhhhhh

they're brown and moslum, good enough....

[sonofdaxjones]

Who broke up Yugoslavia . . . NATO, haven't I constantly said the U.S. and Western Governments?

Last week The Telegraph reported that an FSA commander called them "Libyans" when he explained that the FSA doesn't "want these extremist people here."

And if the new Libyan government was sending seasoned Islamic fighters and 400 tons of heavy weapons to Syria through a port in southern Turkey—a deal brokered by Stevens' primary Libyan contact during the Libyan revolution—then the governments of Turkey and the U.S. surely knew about it.

Furthermore there was a CIA post in Benghazi, located 1.2 miles from the U.S. consulate, used as "a base for, among other things, collecting information on the proliferation of weaponry looted from Libyan government arsenals, including surface-to-air missiles" ... and that its security features "were more advanced than those at [the] rented villa where Stevens died."

And we know that the CIA has been funneling weapons to the rebels in southern Turkey. The question is whether the CIA has been involved in handing out the heavy weapons from Libya.

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/reading-the-refuse-counting-col-qaddafis-heat-seeking-missiles-and-tracking-them-back-to-their-sources/

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-syria-heavy-weapons-jihadists-2012-10

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8919057/Leading-Libyan-Islamist-met-Free-Syrian-Army-opposition-group.html

But there's no link between Syria and Libya, right EDN?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/world/middleeast/cia-said-to-aid-in-steering-arms-to-syrian-rebels.html?pagewanted=all

[420seriouscat69]

If I were president, everyone would be rich, no one would eff with America (Because everyone would be our allies), We'd have 3 day weekends, and every day would be a party! #VoteFanningFor2016

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

ksuw: Syrians are not Arabs

What are you talking about? Arabs are by far the biggest demographic in Syria.

In 2011, the Syrian population was estimated at roughly 23 million permanent inhabitants, including people with refugee status from Palestine and Iraq and are an overall indigenous Levantine people. While most modern-day Syrians are commonly described as Arabs by virtue of their modern-day language and bonds to Arab culture and history, they are, in fact, largely a blend of the various Semitic-speaking groups indigenous to the region. In 2011, Syria's population was 70-74% Sunni Muslim (59-60% Arabs, 9-11% Kurds and 2-3% Turkmen), other Muslims (including Alawites 10%, Shia and Ismaili) made up 16% of the population, Druse 2-3% various Christian denominations made up 10-12% and finally, there were a few Jewish communities in Aleppo and Damascus.

ksuw: Syrians are not Arabs

shhhhhhh

they're brown and moslum, good enough....

And once again, Edna gloms onto stupidity with more stupidity.

[ednksu]

Who broke up Yugoslavia . . . NATO, haven't I constantly said the U.S. and Western Governments?

Last week The Telegraph reported that an FSA commander called them "Libyans" when he explained that the FSA doesn't "want these extremist people here."

And if the new Libyan government was sending seasoned Islamic fighters and 400 tons of heavy weapons to Syria through a port in southern Turkey—a deal brokered by Stevens' primary Libyan contact during the Libyan revolution—then the governments of Turkey and the U.S. surely knew about it.

Furthermore there was a CIA post in Benghazi, located 1.2 miles from the U.S. consulate, used as "a base for, among other things, collecting information on the proliferation of weaponry looted from Libyan government arsenals, including surface-to-air missiles" ... and that its security features "were more advanced than those at [the] rented villa where Stevens died."

And we know that the CIA has been funneling weapons to the rebels in southern Turkey. The question is whether the CIA has been involved in handing out the heavy weapons from Libya.

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/reading-the-refuse-counting-col-qaddafis-heat-seeking-missiles-and-tracking-them-back-to-their-sources/

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-syria-heavy-weapons-jihadists-2012-10

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8919057/Leading-Libyan-Islamist-met-Free-Syrian-Army-opposition-group.html

But there's no link between Syria and Libya, right EDN?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/world/middleeast/cia-said-to-aid-in-steering-arms-to-syrian-rebels.html?pagewanted=all

LOL  THRASHING

Tell me more about the US taking Yougo apart. 

[sonofdaxjones]

So the U.S. and NATO didn't launch nearly 80 days of bombing in the former Yugoslavia?

Now it's just pure deflection

Tell me again how Libya didn't have anything to do with Syria.   

[ednksu]

So the U.S. and NATO didn't launch nearly 80 days of bombing in the former Yugoslavia?

Now it's just pure deflection

Tell me again how Libya didn't have anything to do with Syria.   

LOL I think it's great how your own post shows the evidence of how you're wrong LOL.  Former Yugolsavia....

And your standard is now moving from connection/anything to do with between Syria and Libya.  House of rough ridin' cards.   

[OK_Cat]

I really enjoyed the last few pages of this thread minus the edn/dax stuff.  Maybe you guys should take a hike

[sonofdaxjones]

http://www.icty.org/en/about/what-former-yugoslavia

Somebody better alert the UN, because EDN says there's no Former Yugoslavia.    Just more deflection.

Every article I posted had a direct correlation to either Libyan forces engaged in the overthrow of the old Libyan Regime (in direct coordination with the United States and NATO) the shipment of Libyan arms to Syria, or the shipment of Yugoslavian made arms into Syria and/or the direct involvement of the CIA in partial-ing out arms into Syria.

Sorry OKC, sometimes complete whack-a-doodles need to be reigned in.

[ednksu]

http://www.icty.org/en/about/what-former-yugoslavia

Somebody better alert the UN, because EDN says there's no Former Yugoslavia.    Just more deflection.

Every article I posted had a direct correlation to either Libyan forces engaged in the overthrow of the old Libyan Regime (in direct coordination with the United States and NATO) the shipment of Libyan arms to Syria, or the shipment of Yugoslavian made arms into Syria and/or the direct involvement of the CIA in partial-ing out arms into Syria.

Sorry OKC, sometimes complete whack-a-doodles need to be reigned in.

Please quote me where is said there is no former Yugo?  You rough ridin' idiot you said "we" took them apart and then posted about the US going in after they fell apart with their bombing campaign.  Your posts don't even have internal logic at this point you fool.  For eff sake dude.  It's not deflection poking you to watch you flail around.  It's a great time for me.   But I'll let you get back to thinking you're "thrashing me" or reigning me in.  I mean eff....this is just comical.

[sonofdaxjones]

So "we" isn't plural?  But who lead the coalition (an American) who flew the vast majority of the missions (the United States) who dropped by far and away the lions share of munitions (the United States).   

It's just more semantic deflection by you . . . as usual.   But remember, you said Libya and Syria were by and large mutually exclusive, yet news source after news source says otherwise by the truckload.   One source after another factually verifies that the two operations are inextricably linked with clear and undeniable signs of the US and the West being all over it.

 

[ednksu]

So "we" isn't plural?  But who lead the coalition (an American) who flew the vast majority of the missions (the United States) who dropped by far and away the lions share of munitions (the United States).   

It's just more semantic deflection by you . . . as usual.   But remember, you said Libya and Syria were by and large mutually exclusive, yet news source after news source says otherwise by the truckload.   One source after another factually verifies that the two operations are inextricably linked with clear and undeniable signs of the US and the West being all over it.

what are you talking about?  you said "we" took apart Yugo, that is fundamentally rough ridin' false.  Yes the US/NATO went in after ethnic genocide started.  These are basic facts you should know before you run your mouth. 

Once again I never said Syria and Libya were mutually exclusive.  I said your conspiracy theory bullshit is wrong, built on infowars quality facts, and has no place in a discussion of college educated people.  you. rough ridin'. idiot.

[sonofdaxjones]

Without the U.S./NATO involvement in Yugoslavia does the break-up the country occur?  Not in the fashion that it did, and potentially not at all.  But that's just more deflection.

So major news publications from all over the world is now "Infowars"?  Pure Comedy.   Somebody alert the New York Times . . . they've been taken over by Alex Jones!! 

The United States has coordinated a massive airlift of arms to Syrian rebels from Croatia with the help of Britain and other European states, despite the continuing European Union arms embargo, it was claimed yesterday.

It claimed 3,000 tons of weapons dating back to the former Yugoslavia have been sent in 75 planeloads from Zagreb airport to the rebels, largely via Jordan since November.
The story confirmed the origins of ex-Yugoslav weapons seen in growing numbers in rebel hands in online videos, as described last month by The Daily Telegraph and other newspapers, but suggests far bigger quantities than previously suspected.
The shipments were allegedly paid for by Saudi Arabia at the bidding of the United States, with assistance on supplying the weapons organised through Turkey and Jordan, Syria's neighbours. But the report added that as well as from Croatia, weapons came "from several other European countries including Britain", without specifying if they were British-supplied or British-procured arms.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9918785/US-and-Europe-in-major-airlift-of-arms-to-Syrian-rebels-through-Zagreb.html

[ednksu]

Without the U.S./NATO involvement in Yugoslavia does the break-up the country occur?  Not in the fashion that it did, and potentially not at all.  But that's just more deflection.

So major news publications from all over the world is now "Infowars"?  Pure Comedy.   Somebody alert the New York Times . . . they've been taken over by Alex Jones!! 

The United States has coordinated a massive airlift of arms to Syrian rebels from Croatia with the help of Britain and other European states, despite the continuing European Union arms embargo, it was claimed yesterday.

It claimed 3,000 tons of weapons dating back to the former Yugoslavia have been sent in 75 planeloads from Zagreb airport to the rebels, largely via Jordan since November.
The story confirmed the origins of ex-Yugoslav weapons seen in growing numbers in rebel hands in online videos, as described last month by The Daily Telegraph and other newspapers, but suggests far bigger quantities than previously suspected.
The shipments were allegedly paid for by Saudi Arabia at the bidding of the United States, with assistance on supplying the weapons organised through Turkey and Jordan, Syria's neighbours. But the report added that as well as from Croatia, weapons came "from several other European countries including Britain", without specifying if they were British-supplied or British-procured arms.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9918785/US-and-Europe-in-major-airlift-of-arms-to-Syrian-rebels-through-Zagreb.html

I'm not saying the US didn't run guns into Libya you rough ridin' idiot.  But you have to be legitimately daft to think that Sarajevo goes from Olympic city to ethnic rough ridin' genocide because of western influence.  That country was doomed from its creation you tool bag.  Read a rough ridin' book, jesus rough ridin' christ.  Your deflections (i mean you couldn't even post evidence to refute the charge of your lying so you deflected to this) are just so absurd at this point I'm not even laughing at you, I pity you. 

[sonofdaxjones]

Just more captain obvious points that have nothing to do with a matter at hand outside of the fact that arms shipments originated from Croatia a member of NATO and ended up in the hands of rebels in Syria (not Libya, ya dumbass.   The Yugoslavian weapons from Libya to Syria were original sold to the Libyan Military by the Milosevic regime).   Again, just more deflection by you.   

I have never once said that the ethnic genocide happend because of Western Influence, and have never even implied that.  Where in the F_ck did you get that.  Albeit the argument could easily be made we helped Jihadists during the war via CIA and arms shipments from Iran to the KLA that the Clinton administration turned a blind eye to . . . but that has nothing to do with this. 

This is about Paris and Syria of which Libya opened up a new jumping off point to overthrow Assad.