Author Topic: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look  (Read 135780 times)

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Offline DQ12

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Offline 8manpick

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1401 on: November 12, 2019, 01:26:27 PM »
https://dailynorthwestern.com/2019/11/10/lateststories/addressing-the-dailys-coverage-of-sessions-protests/


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While our goal is to document history and spread information, nothing is more important than ensuring that our fellow students feel safe

eff that
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Offline 8manpick

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:adios:

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The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1403 on: November 12, 2019, 02:46:00 PM »
https://dailynorthwestern.com/2019/11/10/lateststories/addressing-the-dailys-coverage-of-sessions-protests/


Quote
While our goal is to document history and spread information, nothing is more important than ensuring that our fellow students feel safe

eff that

Such a weird thing to say for a paper. Your most important goal is making people feel safe? What on earth?

Offline steve dave

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1404 on: November 13, 2019, 09:43:32 AM »

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1405 on: November 13, 2019, 09:54:51 AM »
Man, that can't be real. All three people in that thread are insanely cartoonish.

Offline Brock Landers

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1406 on: November 13, 2019, 09:58:52 AM »
Looks like Jacob Wohl with a beard.

Offline chum1

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1407 on: November 13, 2019, 09:59:24 AM »
I like Mr. Levy's earnest conviction to help all women who just want to snuggle. Also, did he do a poor MS paint job on the background of his profile pic because that dude commented on the wallpaper?


Offline steve dave

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1410 on: July 08, 2020, 11:21:42 AM »
is this the thread for the Harper's letter? Lots of twitter folks are dunking on it

https://twitter.com/LLW902/status/1280547024014905346

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1411 on: July 08, 2020, 11:37:19 AM »
Yes, and can be cross posted in Woke Nation thread as well.


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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1412 on: July 08, 2020, 11:48:47 AM »
is this the thread for the Harper's letter? Lots of twitter folks are dunking on it

https://twitter.com/LLW902/status/1280547024014905346

I guess if you insert "about trans people" into every sentence it does take a bit of a transphobic lean.  FWIW, this thread is the first time i've heard about this letter.


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Offline steve dave

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1413 on: July 08, 2020, 11:51:30 AM »
I also had not heard about this letter

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1414 on: July 08, 2020, 11:54:39 AM »
Seems wrong to me that a person’s endorsement of a viewpoint should be criticized based solely on the identity of others who support it.

People can have differing motives for supporting an idea. Yes, obviously bigots are fans of free speech. If you have to distance yourself from the First Amendment based on that then we’re mumped.

Offline 8manpick

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1415 on: July 08, 2020, 11:55:48 AM »
Yeah, letter seems good to me. Hadn’t heard of of it, and have only read the clip posted with the trans inserts, but yeah, I agree.
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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1416 on: July 08, 2020, 11:58:15 AM »
My only issue with the letter is that #cancelling someone is a form of speech.  That's how it's supposed to work.  Person A says something, society analyzes it and reacts accordingly -- whether neutrally, in support, or in opposition.  I really don't have any problem with people calling out or canceling or whatever.  That's part of Speech too, baby. 

Seen in the best light, the letter is a call for more nuanced thought and consideration of how we oppose ideas we disagree with.  Which I think is a great and smart thing to consider, but keeping in mind that sometimes, reprehensible ideas don't deserve much nuance or thought or discussion.


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Offline michigancat

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1417 on: July 08, 2020, 12:00:38 PM »
My only issue with the letter is that #cancelling someone is a form of speech.  That's how it's supposed to work.  Person A says something, society analyzes it and reacts accordingly -- whether neutrally, in support, or in opposition.  I really don't have any problem with people calling out or canceling or whatever.  That's part of Speech too, baby. 

Seen in the best light, the letter is a call for more nuanced thought and consideration of how we oppose ideas we disagree with.  Which I think is a great and smart thing to consider, but keeping in mind that sometimes, reprehensible ideas don't deserve much nuance or thought or discussion.

none of the people who signed are at risk of being cancelled. They just don't want criticism from regular people.

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The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1418 on: July 08, 2020, 12:04:02 PM »
My only issue with the letter is that #cancelling someone is a form of speech.  That's how it's supposed to work.  Person A says something, society analyzes it and reacts accordingly -- whether neutrally, in support, or in opposition.  I really don't have any problem with people calling out or canceling or whatever.  That's part of Speech too, baby. 

Seen in the best light, the letter is a call for more nuanced thought and consideration of how we oppose ideas we disagree with.  Which I think is a great and smart thing to consider, but keeping in mind that sometimes, reprehensible ideas don't deserve much nuance or thought or discussion.
Right. To be clear, the letter is not a defense of the First Amendment, it’s a plea to give thought  to and consider opposing views for what they are. 

The “trans” write up really serves to highlight the point. That person is essentially saying, “I’m not going to respond to your stated viewpoint because I know what you REALLY mean based on the person I think you are.” It squelches opportunities for productive conversation.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1419 on: July 08, 2020, 12:16:45 PM »
Just occurred to me that fancy people already have a word for that: ad hominem attack.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1420 on: July 08, 2020, 12:17:59 PM »
My only issue with the letter is that #cancelling someone is a form of speech.  That's how it's supposed to work.  Person A says something, society analyzes it and reacts accordingly -- whether neutrally, in support, or in opposition.  I really don't have any problem with people calling out or canceling or whatever.  That's part of Speech too, baby. 

Seen in the best light, the letter is a call for more nuanced thought and consideration of how we oppose ideas we disagree with.  Which I think is a great and smart thing to consider, but keeping in mind that sometimes, reprehensible ideas don't deserve much nuance or thought or discussion.
Right. To be clear, the letter is not a defense of the First Amendment, it’s a plea to give thought  to and consider opposing views for what they are. 

The “trans” write up really serves to highlight the point. That person is essentially saying, “I’m not going to respond to your stated viewpoint because I know what you REALLY mean based on the person I think you are.” It squelches opportunities for productive conversation.

That's not allowed anymore, either agree, or get cancelled.  Period.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1421 on: July 08, 2020, 12:24:24 PM »
Dax, have you been canceled?
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1422 on: July 08, 2020, 12:25:57 PM »
My only issue with the letter is that #cancelling someone is a form of speech.  That's how it's supposed to work.  Person A says something, society analyzes it and reacts accordingly -- whether neutrally, in support, or in opposition.  I really don't have any problem with people calling out or canceling or whatever.  That's part of Speech too, baby. 

Seen in the best light, the letter is a call for more nuanced thought and consideration of how we oppose ideas we disagree with.  Which I think is a great and smart thing to consider, but keeping in mind that sometimes, reprehensible ideas don't deserve much nuance or thought or discussion.

none of the people who signed are at risk of being cancelled. They just don't want criticism from regular people.

while it is ludicrous to argue that the principle is invalid if there is a class of people powerful, influential or successful enough to not be subject to negative consequences that others may face or fear for the same actions, david shor was fired just a month or so ago for a (perfectly reasonable) tweet.  by any standard, shor was influential and successful in his field.
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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1423 on: July 08, 2020, 03:13:44 PM »
My only issue with the letter is that #cancelling someone is a form of speech.  That's how it's supposed to work.  Person A says something, society analyzes it and reacts accordingly -- whether neutrally, in support, or in opposition.  I really don't have any problem with people calling out or canceling or whatever.  That's part of Speech too, baby. 

Seen in the best light, the letter is a call for more nuanced thought and consideration of how we oppose ideas we disagree with.  Which I think is a great and smart thing to consider, but keeping in mind that sometimes, reprehensible ideas don't deserve much nuance or thought or discussion.

none of the people who signed are at risk of being cancelled. They just don't want criticism from regular people.

while it is ludicrous to argue that the principle is invalid if there is a class of people powerful, influential or successful enough to not be subject to negative consequences that others may face or fear for the same actions, david shor was fired just a month or so ago for a (perfectly reasonable) tweet.  by any standard, shor was influential and successful in his field.

I don't know enough about Shor or the company and their clients, but I can see how that tweet could damage relationships with clients or maybe violate an internal social media policy. I can certainly get a passive-aggressive condescending vibe from the tweet and his adjacent ones and got the sense from replies that there's a bit of a history with similar tweets. Also considering he's NDA'd up I'm assuming he got a decent payout and probably walked away with a larger profile than he would have had otherwise.

At the same time, I don't think the "mob" was all that large and it wouldn't have been an issue for Civis to stand up for him. :dunno:

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #1424 on: July 08, 2020, 03:20:34 PM »
My only issue with the letter is that #cancelling someone is a form of speech.  That's how it's supposed to work.  Person A says something, society analyzes it and reacts accordingly -- whether neutrally, in support, or in opposition.  I really don't have any problem with people calling out or canceling or whatever.  That's part of Speech too, baby. 

Seen in the best light, the letter is a call for more nuanced thought and consideration of how we oppose ideas we disagree with.  Which I think is a great and smart thing to consider, but keeping in mind that sometimes, reprehensible ideas don't deserve much nuance or thought or discussion.

none of the people who signed are at risk of being cancelled. They just don't want criticism from regular people.

while it is ludicrous to argue that the principle is invalid if there is a class of people powerful, influential or successful enough to not be subject to negative consequences that others may face or fear for the same actions, david shor was fired just a month or so ago for a (perfectly reasonable) tweet.  by any standard, shor was influential and successful in his field.

I don't know enough about Shor or the company and their clients, but I can see how that tweet could damage relationships with clients or maybe violate an internal social media policy. I can certainly get a passive-aggressive condescending vibe from the tweet and his adjacent ones and got the sense from replies that there's a bit of a history with similar tweets. Also considering he's NDA'd up I'm assuming he got a decent payout and probably walked away with a larger profile than he would have had otherwise.

At the same time, I don't think the "mob" was all that large and it wouldn't have been an issue for Civis to stand up for him. :dunno:
I think it's fair enough for him to be upset by that episode, the hypothetical decent payout and larger profile notwithstanding.


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]