The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look

[sys]

my new fave wesley yang on jordan peterson!  an article almost perfectly designed for this thread.  long but tasty.


https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a19834137/jordan-peterson-interview/

[sonofdaxjones]

my new fave wesley yang on jordan peterson!  an article almost perfectly designed for this thread.  long but tasty.


https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a19834137/jordan-peterson-interview/

A fantastic cut and paste link as always sys.   So, care to add any commentary as to why that's the perfect link to an article for this particular blog thread?

[sys]

because peterson is the new anti-pc lodestar and we had a little discussion about yang in this thread a few weeks back.  in this article, they converged.

[michigancat]

my new fave wesley yang on jordan peterson!  an article almost perfectly designed for this thread.  long but tasty.


https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a19834137/jordan-peterson-interview/

sys those guys are a couple of dullards. What a boring article

[sonofdaxjones]

my new fave wesley yang on jordan peterson!  an article almost perfectly designed for this thread.  long but tasty.


https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a19834137/jordan-peterson-interview/

sys those guys are a couple of dullards. What a boring article

I’m gonna have to go with cRusty.  I tried, but, yawn.

[sys]

sys those guys are a couple of dullards. What a boring article

maybe you don't like uber-pc themed discussion as much as i do.

[The Big Train]

It was probably just boring

[sys]

It was probably just boring

it isn't.

[The Big Train]

It was probably just boring

it isn't.

Obviously it was, I mean sorry man.

[sys]

i wouldn't have recommended it if it was boring.  use your head, tbt.

[star seed 7]

I'll be the judge here, but I'm watching a movie so maybe I'll read it in the morning

[michigancat]

sys those guys are a couple of dullards. What a boring article

maybe you don't like uber-pc themed discussion as much as i do.

clearly I don't. But I still find your perspective interesting. I imagine you could write something far more interesting than that one boring dope's feature on another boring dope. Based on that article I have no idea why Peterson is a thing. (and then I realized he had the gotcha on the brit journalist and got butthurt about being called a fascist on twitter)

[michigancat]

I watched the start of that Canadian news show debate and he seems like a huge idiot

[sys]

Based on that article I have no idea why Peterson is a thing.

i thought the article illuminated exactly that point, which no other author has ever done to my satisfaction.

[DQ12]

I enjoyed it, Sys.  It took me a while to remember that I had actually seen Peterson before.  I saw the viral clip of him out in the courtyard and arguing with his students about the merits of free speech.

I may check out his book. 

After I spoke with dozens of his followers, it was clear that his was not a message addressed solely to white men, angry or otherwise, but to those of us—and I can’t think of anyone to whom this doesn’t apply—who needed to hear from a credible voice that though we are fated to die, and to suffer, and fail, and do harm to ourselves, and to others, that a pathway to a nobler life is within reach.

What's not to love about that sentiment?

[michigancat]

Based on that article I have no idea why Peterson is a thing.

i thought the article illuminated exactly that point, which no other author has ever done to my satisfaction.

why, in your words, is he a thing?

I enjoyed it, Sys.  It took me a while to remember that I had actually seen Peterson before.  I saw the viral clip of him out in the courtyard and arguing with his students about the merits of free speech.

I may check out his book. 

After I spoke with dozens of his followers, it was clear that his was not a message addressed solely to white men, angry or otherwise, but to those of us—and I can’t think of anyone to whom this doesn’t apply—who needed to hear from a credible voice that though we are fated to die, and to suffer, and fail, and do harm to ourselves, and to others, that a pathway to a nobler life is within reach.

What's not to love about that sentiment?

It's boring/obvious and has nothing to do with why he's popular? Also not sure what makes his voice "credible".

[DQ12]

Nothing to do with why he's popular?  The whole article says that's precisely the reason why he's popular.

[michigancat]

Nothing to do with why he's popular?  The whole article says that's precisely the reason why he's popular.

I disagree with the article. IMO he's popular because that sentiment is paired with alt-right friendly takes. No one gets popular solely with that sentiment, it's like the foundation of every religion and self-help yokel in history.

[DQ12]

 What about his message, in your view, is "alt right friendly"?  Just his rejection of "PC Culture"?

[Kat Kid]

He pretty explicitly dislikes trans people. He is pretty evasive about his beliefs about anything, but from what I can tell he is pretty clear that he thinks traditional gender norms are necessary and a positive good and that women's equality is just not possible due to our innate characteristics.  Then he gets in to lobsters as some sort of proof of theory.  His myth writing is really weird and incoherent too.

I just don't truly understand what is so alluring about this guy to people.

[DQ12]

And you may be right, KK.  I'm admittedly pretty green on him, but I did find the portrayal of him in Sys' article pretty appealing. 

[michigancat]

What about his message, in your view, is "alt right friendly"?  Just his rejection of "PC Culture"?

I mean he came out and said "I found out how to monetize social justice warriors": https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/comments/7u44oq/jordan_peterson_i_found_out_how_to_monetize/

And as KK mentioned he hates trans folks and his views on gender roles are very popular among men's rights activists/4chan/alt-right circles.

[8manpick]

The article was pretty decent. Not a big fan of Peterson, though. There are other better voices that share a similar space. 

[sys]

why, in your words, is he a thing?

i think he provides a quasi-religious defense of traditional western/judeochristian norms and advise on how to live an ethical life rooted in those norms that is not based in religious belief.  i think this appeals to a number of people, especially young men, who are not persuaded by religious belief, but feel adrift without the rigor of an explicit ethical code and prefer "traditional" western societal norms to more recent "pc" norms.

the quotations are because there is a lot packed into those terms and i think it'd take me longer than i'd like to write out an adequate definition of either than i want to devote to the topic, but i think you probably understand them as i'm using them sufficiently that such explanations aren't needed.


btw, i don't think it's fair to say he doesn't like transgender people.  i think he probably has considerable personal empathy for them.  i think it is fairer to say that he dislikes society catering to the delusions of individuals suffering from a diagnosible psychiatric disorder.

[michigancat]

why, in your words, is he a thing?

i think he provides a quasi-religious defense of traditional western/judeochristian norms and advise on how to live an ethical life rooted in those norms that is not based in religious belief.  i think this appeals to a number of people, especially young men, who are not persuaded by religious belief, but feel adrift without the rigor of an explicit ethical code and prefer "traditional" western societal norms to more recent "pc" norms.

the quotations are because there is a lot packed into those terms and i think it'd take me longer than i'd like to write out an adequate definition of either than i want to devote to the topic, but i think you probably understand them as i'm using them sufficiently that such explanations aren't needed.

Makes sense. I just didn't find anything he said in that piece particularly interesting (like I wasn't even mad at him, it was just a whole lot of nothing/stupidity)

btw, i don't think it's fair to say he doesn't like transgender people.  i think he probably has considerable personal empathy for them.  i think it is fairer to say that he dislikes society catering to the delusions of individuals suffering from a diagnosible psychiatric disorder.

The way you describe it sounds worse than disliking them but ok.