Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

How people like ksuw justify suppressing women's rights in favor of a fetus just baffles me.

There is another human life at stake. Go back and read the first 25 pages or so of this thread and if you're still baffled, let me know. I'll be happy to answer any questions, but they have probably already been answered ITT.

No thanks, it won't change my stance.

Ok then. I'm not going to change my stance either, but the difference is that I've considered all the pro-abortion arguments and found them lacking, as demonstrated ITT. That, and I'm on the side of not killing another human life, so I feel pretty comfortable about my position.

Btw, should a woman be able to kill her baby just prior to birth? How about just after? How about two weeks later? Where do you draw the line and what is the moral basis for that line?

Just because I haven't recognized all the pro-life arguments ITT doesn't mean I haven't heard them. I'm not one to take a stance like I have ITT without knowing a lot about the topic.

Part of being pro-choice and a male means that decision isn't up to me. I'm not forcing my beliefs on someone else. It's their body, and their baby, whatever they choose is their choice. My moral basis is feeling better knowing I'm not forcing someone to do something against their will.

Nope. "I'm a man" is another crap argument, as you would know if you read the thread.

[The Big Train]

How is that another crap argument, and no, I'm not going to go back and read.  I bet you think the gender pay gap should be expanded huh?  Why should women have a vote? 

I never knew why so many don't like you in the pit but it's becoming very clear to me why.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

How is that another crap argument, and no, I'm not going to go back and read.  I bet you think the gender pay gap should be expanded huh?  Why should women have a vote? 

I never knew why so many don't like you in the pit but it's becoming very clear to me why.

  

If a woman was about to throw her newborn baby off a balcony, would you just stand aside because "you're a man"? "Hey, I'm just a man. Who am I to tell this woman not to kill her baby?"

[The Big Train]

How is that another crap argument, and no, I'm not going to go back and read.  I bet you think the gender pay gap should be expanded huh?  Why should women have a vote? 

I never knew why so many don't like you in the pit but it's becoming very clear to me why.

  

If a woman was about to throw her newborn baby off a balcony, would you just stand aside because "you're a man"? "Hey, I'm just a man. Who am I to tell this woman not to kill her baby?"

This post is a very good representation of how much I, and many others value your opinion.  Surprised it took me this long to see it.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

How is that another crap argument, and no, I'm not going to go back and read.  I bet you think the gender pay gap should be expanded huh?  Why should women have a vote? 

I never knew why so many don't like you in the pit but it's becoming very clear to me why.

  

If a woman was about to throw her newborn baby off a balcony, would you just stand aside because "you're a man"? "Hey, I'm just a man. Who am I to tell this woman not to kill her baby?"

This post is a very good representation of how much I, and many others value your opinion.  Surprised it took me this long to see it.

Lol. Ok bub. And this exchange perfectly demonstrates why I shouldn't bother rehashing the same tired old arguments with people who haven't bothered to first read the thread.

[bucket]

How is that another crap argument, and no, I'm not going to go back and read.  I bet you think the gender pay gap should be expanded huh?  Why should women have a vote? 

I never knew why so many don't like you in the pit but it's becoming very clear to me why.

  

If a woman was about to throw her newborn baby off a balcony, would you just stand aside because "you're a man"? "Hey, I'm just a man. Who am I to tell this woman not to kill her baby?"

This post is a very good representation of how much I, and many others value your opinion.  Surprised it took me this long to see it.

Lol. Ok bub. And this exchange perfectly demonstrates why I shouldn't bother rehashing the same tired old arguments with people who haven't bothered to first read the thread.

You want people to take a thread titled Planned Hamburger seriously?

[BrokenSky1113]

Are we supposed to take any attempt to change anyone's mind about abortion on the internet seriously?

[Ptolemy]

Are we supposed to take any attempt to change anyone's mind about abortion on the internet seriously?

Who is asking you to? I'd be satisfied with a simple explanation for the basis of the belief that a right to life does not exist for a human being in the womb same as it clearly does for one outside the womb.

[BrokenSky1113]

Unless its a simple explanation you don't agree with.
Then you won't be satisfied at all.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Unless its a simple explanation you don't agree with.
Then you won't be satisfied at all.

No, seriously, your turn: Explain why a baby has a right to life one minute after birth but not one minute before. I'm sure you have a perfectly rational answer. Go ahead.

[star seed 7]

gotta break the plane

[sys]

you gotta draw the line somewhere.  just like any other game.

[star seed 7]

Not a person.

[MakeItRain]

Unless its a simple explanation you don't agree with.
Then you won't be satisfied at all.

No, seriously, your turn: Explain why a baby has a right to life one minute after birth but not one minute before. I'm sure you have a perfectly rational answer. Go ahead.

You know what the answer is though, so why ask? You won't like the answer anyway.

[CNS]

 Abortion is much more than late term abortion.  Pretending otherwise is disingenuous.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Unless its a simple explanation you don't agree with.
Then you won't be satisfied at all.

No, seriously, your turn: Explain why a baby has a right to life one minute after birth but not one minute before. I'm sure you have a perfectly rational answer. Go ahead.

You know what the answer is though, so why ask? You won't like the answer anyway.

The purpose of a rhetorical question is to encourage someone to think about their position.

[SdK]

Hey KSU, in case you forgot, I don't think any living thing as any more right to life than anything else. We slaughter life over and over and over. We humans are not special. Life, death, it makes not matter. Earth will live on long after us much as it did before us.

[MakeItRain]

Unless its a simple explanation you don't agree with.
Then you won't be satisfied at all.

No, seriously, your turn: Explain why a baby has a right to life one minute after birth but not one minute before. I'm sure you have a perfectly rational answer. Go ahead.

You know what the answer is though, so why ask? You won't like the answer anyway.

The purpose of a rhetorical question is to encourage someone to think about their position.

Good point, I'm sure he/she hasn't really thought out this abortion thing. I'm sure your question will absolutely do the trick.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Unless its a simple explanation you don't agree with.
Then you won't be satisfied at all.

No, seriously, your turn: Explain why a baby has a right to life one minute after birth but not one minute before. I'm sure you have a perfectly rational answer. Go ahead.

You know what the answer is though, so why ask? You won't like the answer anyway.

The purpose of a rhetorical question is to encourage someone to think about their position.

Good point, I'm sure he/she hasn't really thought out this abortion thing. I'm sure your question will absolutely do the trick.

It's the question you should start with. We drill down from there.

[Ptolemy]

Hey KSU, in case you forgot, I don't think any living thing as any more right to life than anything else. We slaughter life over and over and over. We humans are not special. Life, death, it makes not matter. Earth will live on long after us much as it did before us.

Humans ARE special. We are at the top of the food chain. Humanity sets the table for the future.

Animals live only for their own individual survival.

Human's choose who will continue, for the betterment of all.

[star seed 7]

Abortions are usually for the person's own survival

[star seed 7]

Also abortions are for the betterment of all (humans)

[SdK]

Hey KSU, in case you forgot, I don't think any living thing as any more right to life than anything else. We slaughter life over and over and over. We humans are not special. Life, death, it makes not matter. Earth will live on long after us much as it did before us.

Humans ARE special. We are at the top of the food chain. Humanity sets the table for the future.

Animals live only for their own individual survival.

Human's choose who will continue, for the betterment of all.

We are animals.

Humans are parasites, viruses, ruiners of the future. Earth, non human animals, plants, etc will exist far longer than we ever can hope to. We are special in that we exist to the detriment of all else unlike most every other organism.

This idea that excising a future cancer from a woman's body is any great matter is absurd.

[michigancat]

I'm sure pro-choicers look at the Peterson (assuming your characterization is accurate) as an issue of whether the mother has the right to terminate the pregnancy vs some other guy.

I think you guys have done a good job of illustrating the fundamental disconnect in the discussion here. Unfortunately I don't really think anyone will change anyone's minds with discussion. I can only think of a few examples in history where opposing sides argued over whether a certain group should be viewed as fully human and having a right to life. In all the instances I can think of, those debates got resolved mostly through war instead of votes.

Pro lifers would never go to war over abortion because they really don't think fetuses are humans. They say they do, but their actions make it seem pretty hollow.

[The Big Train]

I'm sure pro-choicers look at the Peterson (assuming your characterization is accurate) as an issue of whether the mother has the right to terminate the pregnancy vs some other guy.

I think you guys have done a good job of illustrating the fundamental disconnect in the discussion here. Unfortunately I don't really think anyone will change anyone's minds with discussion. I can only think of a few examples in history where opposing sides argued over whether a certain group should be viewed as fully human and having a right to life. In all the instances I can think of, those debates got resolved mostly through war instead of votes.

Pro lifers would never go to war over abortion because they really don't think fetuses are humans. They say they do, but their actions make it seem pretty hollow.

Even if they did go to war it would be a super easy win for pro-choicers.  KSUW isn't in the business of killing other humans, so it's an automatic win for us.