Author Topic: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?  (Read 129373 times)

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #925 on: January 26, 2016, 03:53:39 PM »
Did I already ask months ago why you people care if someone else gets an abortion?

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #926 on: January 26, 2016, 03:55:02 PM »
Did I already ask months ago why you people care if someone else gets an abortion?
Why does anyone care about anything?


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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #927 on: January 26, 2016, 03:55:30 PM »
Did I already ask months ago why you people care if someone else gets an abortion?
Why does anyone care about anything?

Self-interest.

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #928 on: January 26, 2016, 03:55:43 PM »
I think there is a space where you can call something bad or a tragedy, and not mean murder or a moral law is broken. Is it really murder if it couldn't live outside the womb? To me that's not a person yet.

Newborn babies can't live outside the womb, either. Not without care from others. Your argument is weak. Birth is an arbitrary dividing line with monstrous results.
But they are viable life forms that could live with the help of others. A 10 week old fetus can't even do that.

Would your opinion change if technology made it possible?

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #929 on: January 26, 2016, 03:59:23 PM »
Did I already ask months ago why you people care if someone else gets an abortion?
Why does anyone care about anything?

Self-interest.

Is it your opinion that when someone cares about another person it is out of self-interest?

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #930 on: January 26, 2016, 03:59:57 PM »

Can't you just walk into PP and other clinics and pretty much get free contraceptives?

Yes. But I believe KK is referring to OTC availability of morning after pill?

I respect people who oppose such availability because it can cause abortion. However, I support it from the pragmatic viewpoint that it could dramatically reduce both the number of later term abortions and the rationale therefore.

Why can't CVS perform implants (arm) free of charge and provide other forms of contraceptives and charge taxpayers?  Could offer condoms as well.  The evidence for IUDs has been dramatic reductions in unwanted pregnancies, I would want to do more to offer condoms to prevent transmission of STIs as well.


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Offline chuckjames

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #931 on: January 26, 2016, 04:00:28 PM »
I agree, a person (or what would become a person) dies. That doesn't make it murder or morally wrong. I mean people die or have their lives significantly shortened because of pollution. That doesn't mean Someone murdered them or the pollution was morally wrong, if it did a lot of people should be going to jail.

Just inserting a marker here. The above quote is a real thing. It was actually said. "Sure you're intentionally killing a human life, but people die because of pollution all the time." I repeat, somebody actually believes this is a good argument.

Every time you get in car you are knowingly shortening the life of another human and probably yourself.

Not really. If there were no automobiles, the average human lifespan would be shorter.

Touche. I'll still stand by my argument that we use stuff everyday that pollutes and kills people. And we have accepted it as a society when we do a cost/benefit analysis.

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #932 on: January 26, 2016, 04:03:32 PM »
I think there is a space where you can call something bad or a tragedy, and not mean murder or a moral law is broken. Is it really murder if it couldn't live outside the womb? To me that's not a person yet.

Newborn babies can't live outside the womb, either. Not without care from others. Your argument is weak. Birth is an arbitrary dividing line with monstrous results.
But they are viable life forms that could live with the help of others. A 10 week old fetus can't even do that.

A 10 week old fetus will become 11 weeks, then 12, etc. - unless something intervenes, like being butchered by an abortion doctor. You still haven't explained the moral basis for your dividing line.
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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #933 on: January 26, 2016, 04:04:43 PM »
I think there is a space where you can call something bad or a tragedy, and not mean murder or a moral law is broken. Is it really murder if it couldn't live outside the womb? To me that's not a person yet.

Newborn babies can't live outside the womb, either. Not without care from others. Your argument is weak. Birth is an arbitrary dividing line with monstrous results.
But they are viable life forms that could live with the help of others. A 10 week old fetus can't even do that.

Would your opinion change if technology made it possible?

So many question in your hypothetical argument, how much would said technology cost and who would the burden of such cost fall too? Are we gonna put poor mothers in debt so their 10 week old fetus could be in the hospital for a long time?

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #934 on: January 26, 2016, 04:07:00 PM »
I think there is a space where you can call something bad or a tragedy, and not mean murder or a moral law is broken. Is it really murder if it couldn't live outside the womb? To me that's not a person yet.

Newborn babies can't live outside the womb, either. Not without care from others. Your argument is weak. Birth is an arbitrary dividing line with monstrous results.
But they are viable life forms that could live with the help of others. A 10 week old fetus can't even do that.

Would your opinion change if technology made it possible?

So many question in your hypothetical argument, how much would said technology cost and who would the burden of such cost fall too? Are we gonna put poor mothers in debt so their 10 week old fetus could be in the hospital for a long time?

That is a diversion from the purpose of his point. The point being made was that if a fetus isn't viable it isn't life and thus the abortion isn't morally wrong. So if it could actually be viable earlier, does that change when an abortion should be allowed to occur? It isn't a call for poor young mothers to pay huge sums in that regard.

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #935 on: January 26, 2016, 04:14:10 PM »
I think there is a space where you can call something bad or a tragedy, and not mean murder or a moral law is broken. Is it really murder if it couldn't live outside the womb? To me that's not a person yet.

Newborn babies can't live outside the womb, either. Not without care from others. Your argument is weak. Birth is an arbitrary dividing line with monstrous results.
But they are viable life forms that could live with the help of others. A 10 week old fetus can't even do that.

Would your opinion change if technology made it possible?

So many question in your hypothetical argument, how much would said technology cost and who would the burden of such cost fall too? Are we gonna put poor mothers in debt so their 10 week old fetus could be in the hospital for a long time?

That is a diversion from the purpose of his point. The point being made was that if a fetus isn't viable it isn't life and thus the abortion isn't morally wrong. So if it could actually be viable earlier, does that change when an abortion should be allowed to occur? It isn't a call for poor young mothers to pay huge sums in that regard.
For me, no I would still allow abortions in that case. I'm trying to make the point for society to accept. But alas we would never agree to anything.

Like I have made the point before, people dying ,while a tragedy and bad, is not necessarily murder or morally wrong. It has happened throughout human history and will continue to happen.


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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #936 on: January 26, 2016, 04:21:50 PM »
I don't see the moral difference in a country going to war (when it will knowingly kill innocents) and abortion. We make those human cost/benefit analysis all the time. So why is abortion different?

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #937 on: January 26, 2016, 04:28:01 PM »
Dlew I'm surprised to see you take this stance. Your post is a fair bit of misdirection at what people are actually claiming and doing versus narrative.  99% of abortion people would want less abortions.  Making them illegal only puts people at risk.  The comparisons as people have noted to murder are just absurd.  It's about state control of the human body.  If there were a similar mens issue KSUW would take over a wild life refuge to protest the state limiting his right to it.  The overall attack is less about abortion and more about control of women, which has gone on for centuries.
Some well thought out arguments here.


Whether or not you agree with it doesn't change the fact that most people's default argument for choice centers on the principle of the government telling people what they can and cannot do with their bodies.  This country has embraced this uniquely conservative issue for decades and the justification has shifted while the underlying issue at hand has always remained the same: government controlling the female body.  The irony is that the party of life only gets on that moral soap box when its abortion and is literally 180 opposite on every other level of protection of life, from death penalty to social services.
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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #938 on: January 26, 2016, 04:36:44 PM »
Dlew I'm surprised to see you take this stance. Your post is a fair bit of misdirection at what people are actually claiming and doing versus narrative.  99% of abortion people would want less abortions.  Making them illegal only puts people at risk.  The comparisons as people have noted to murder are just absurd.  It's about state control of the human body.  If there were a similar mens issue KSUW would take over a wild life refuge to protest the state limiting his right to it.  The overall attack is less about abortion and more about control of women, which has gone on for centuries.
Some well thought out arguments here.


Whether or not you agree with it doesn't change the fact that most people's default argument for choice centers on the principle of the government telling people what they can and cannot do with their bodies.  This country has embraced this uniquely conservative issue for decades and the justification has shifted while the underlying issue at hand has always remained the same: government controlling the female body.  The irony is that the party of life only gets on that moral soap box when its abortion and is literally 180 opposite on every other level of protection of life, from death penalty to social services.
But that's a little disingenuous to frame the argument that way.  I don't give a crap what women do with their bodies.  Get tattoos!  Do drugs!  Work out!  Get breast implants!  Become sterile!  Have kids!  Don't have kids!  Do literally anything -- but do not harm anybody else.

And I'm sure you feel the same way, but contend that "anybody else" doesn't include unborn babies or fetuses or whatever you'd like to call them.  And that, I submit, is the actual "underlying issue."

"You want control of women's bodies" is as disingenuous as "you want to kill babies."
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 04:40:23 PM by Dlew12 »


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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #939 on: January 26, 2016, 04:43:57 PM »
I mostly agree with you there dlew
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #940 on: January 26, 2016, 04:49:10 PM »
i really enjoy D-Lew's arguments. As they are always well reasoned and make me think about my beliefs more which is always a good thing. :cheers:
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 04:52:27 PM by chuckjames »

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #941 on: January 26, 2016, 04:50:42 PM »
Yeah, until he starts getting all 2nd year law schoolery
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #942 on: January 26, 2016, 04:54:56 PM »
Yeah, until he starts getting all 2nd year law schoolery
THAT WAS TWO YEARS AGO  :curse:


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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #943 on: January 26, 2016, 05:03:58 PM »
So the Planned Hamburger killer zealots are accusing the video guys of creating a fake ID and they can get 20 years in the concentration camp.  So does a teener with a fake ID trying to buy beer get 20 years?   Why don't these meat.merchants get some time for commercial cannibalism?

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #944 on: January 26, 2016, 05:15:53 PM »
They also violated texas state law that bans attempting to buy fetal tissue
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #945 on: January 26, 2016, 05:17:57 PM »
They sent an email to pp asking to buy tissue at $1600 apiece  :lol:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #946 on: January 26, 2016, 07:17:43 PM »

Got the videos "illegally" really bad.  PP willing to traffic baby parts perfectly fine.    :thumbsup:  Nice work ProgLibs
Dax hates cancer and neurological research.  Good job 'Pubs.

Yes illegal body part trafficking, edn Whackadoodle loves it.  Welcome to the new Eastern Bloc America!

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #947 on: January 26, 2016, 07:33:04 PM »

Got the videos "illegally" really bad.  PP willing to traffic baby parts perfectly fine.    :thumbsup:  Nice work ProgLibs
Dax hates cancer and neurological research.  Good job 'Pubs.

Yes illegal body part trafficking, edn Whackadoodle loves it.  Welcome to the new Eastern Bloc America!

Where did this happen?

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #948 on: January 26, 2016, 08:06:50 PM »
The implication was there, they didn't shut down the conversation. 

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Re: Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?
« Reply #949 on: January 26, 2016, 11:06:21 PM »
The implication was there, they didn't shut down the conversation.
implication was there........

or if you watch the director's cut with extended footage they did shut down the "for profit" angle and personal gain.  But who has time for hours of movies when your brain can only handle 8 minutes of soundbites.
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