Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?

[SdK]

It'd be nice if people planned to have children and had their health care and financial situations in order prior. In that case, there could be an ability to get paid maternity leave that is triple or quadruple (some multiple) the amount you have accrued for regular leave. Seems like a nice compromise to me. Having a child is a choice. Plan for it.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

Instead of two weeks paid leave, 8 when you breed

Abhorrent

I said a multiple. There would have to be some limits of course.

So maternity leave would be based on seniority. The 60 year old lady who has been at the company a long time would be eligible for the most maternity leave. Makes sense.

What do you want Mrs. Gooch? Something special because you don't want to have children? I really don't understand your stance at all. It seems pretty much "boohoo that's not fair."

[Mrs. Gooch]

It'd be nice if people planned to have children and had their health care and financial situations in order prior. In that case, there could be an ability to get paid maternity leave that is triple or quadruple (some multiple) the amount you have accrued for regular leave. Seems like a nice compromise to me. Having a child is a choice. Plan for it.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

Instead of two weeks paid leave, 8 when you breed

Abhorrent

I said a multiple. There would have to be some limits of course.

So maternity leave would be based on seniority. The 60 year old lady who has been at the company a long time would be eligible for the most maternity leave. Makes sense.

What do you want Mrs. Gooch? Something special because you don't want to have children? I really don't understand your stance at all. It seems pretty much "boohoo that's not fair."

I just don't think that companies should be mandated to provide maternity leave which basically puts the burden on the company and the remaining employees instead of the person who chose to have a child. If companies want to offer it of their own choice to attract a certain set of people to be their employees, then fine that is up to them.

I like roidhead's idea that everyone gets the equivalent of maternity leave. Maybe companies could give each employee a week of "global improvement" time each year. You could use it to go on a trip to build a water treatment plant in a 3rd world country or you could use it to work at a soup kitchen or you could save it up for a few years and use it as maternity/paternity leave (not that necessarily every person who has a kid is improving the world by having that kid, but some people seem to think so).

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think I'd rather just keep going to work than spend a week working a soup kitchen.

[Mrs. Gooch]

I think I'd rather just keep going to work than spend a week working a soup kitchen.

That would be your choice, but isn't there anything you would like to do instead of work that would improve the world? Tutor children? Read to old people? Dig a sewer? Clean up after Riverfest?

Or maybe you don't have to use it all at once. You could leave work an hour early to work at a soup kitchen once a week for 40 weeks out of the year.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think I'd rather just keep going to work than spend a week working a soup kitchen.

That would be your choice, but isn't there anything you would like to do instead of work that would improve the world? Tutor children? Read to old people? Dig a sewer? Clean up after Riverfest?

Maybe for a day, not a week. I like my job. I'd view paternity leave as more of an obligation than something to look forward to.

[MakeItRain]

How so?

don't be dense.

You conveniently cut off the second half of the post. As an employee you aren't subsidizing anything.

[8manpick]

How so?

don't be dense.

You conveniently cut off the second half of the post. As an employee you aren't subsidizing anything.

Could the employer pay everyone (a little) more if he/she didn't need to pay for a few months of zero productivity for another worker?  I'd argue yes.

[SdK]

It'd be nice if people planned to have children and had their health care and financial situations in order prior. In that case, there could be an ability to get paid maternity leave that is triple or quadruple (some multiple) the amount you have accrued for regular leave. Seems like a nice compromise to me. Having a child is a choice. Plan for it.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

Instead of two weeks paid leave, 8 when you breed

Abhorrent

I said a multiple. There would have to be some limits of course.

So maternity leave would be based on seniority. The 60 year old lady who has been at the company a long time would be eligible for the most maternity leave. Makes sense.

What do you want Mrs. Gooch? Something special because you don't want to have children? I really don't understand your stance at all. It seems pretty much "boohoo that's not fair."

I just don't think that companies should be mandated to provide maternity leave which basically puts the burden on the company and the remaining employees instead of the person who chose to have a child. If companies want to offer it of their own choice to attract a certain set of people to be their employees, then fine that is up to them.

I like roidhead's idea that everyone gets the equivalent of maternity leave. Maybe companies could give each employee a week of "global improvement" time each year. You could use it to go on a trip to build a water treatment plant in a 3rd world country or you could use it to work at a soup kitchen or you could save it up for a few years and use it as maternity/paternity leave (not that necessarily every person who has a kid is improving the world by having that kid, but some people seem to think so).

I must have missed that. I could dig that. Quite a bit actually. I wish companies encouraged things of that nature more often.

[MakeItRain]

Wait, it just occurred to me that a lot of you dumbasses are under the impression that paid maternity leave is some kind of law or something. LOL.

[sys]

How so?

don't be dense.

You conveniently cut off the second half of the post. As an employee you aren't subsidizing anything.

well, you're conveniently disobeying my entire post.

[MakeItRain]

How so?

don't be dense.

You conveniently cut off the second half of the post. As an employee you aren't subsidizing anything.

well, you're conveniently disobeying my entire post.

Well you don't actually know what maternity leave is or you're the dumbest sonofabitch ever, so I don't quite know how to approach it.

[star seed 7]

Wait, it just occurred to me that a lot of you dumbasses are under the impression that paid maternity leave is some kind of law or something. LOL.

It should be

[sys]

Well you don't actually know what maternity leave is or you're the dumbest sonofabitch ever, so I don't quite know how to approach it.

jesus christ, mir.  i don't want to walk you through this.  sit down and figure it out on your own.

[MakeItRain]

Wait, it just occurred to me that a lot of you dumbasses are under the impression that paid maternity leave is some kind of law or something. LOL.

It should be

FMLA as written is adequate, imo.

It also has just occurred to me that literally none of you posting about how much you don't like or how unfair maternity/paternity leave is, boo rough ridin' hoo, haven't actually taken leave and your entire view of it is that, it's not fair that your coworker gets vacation that you don't.

[sys]

It also has just occurred to me that literally none of you posting about how much you don't like or how unfair maternity/paternity leave is, boo rough ridin' hoo, haven't actually taken leave and your entire view of it is that, it's not fair that your coworker gets vacation that you don't.

you should probably also consider the possibility that you don't know what you're talking about.

[MakeItRain]

Well you don't actually know what maternity leave is or you're the dumbest sonofabitch ever, so I don't quite know how to approach it.

jesus christ, mir.  i don't want to walk you through this.  sit down and figure it out on your own.

Walk me through what? Let's continue the conversation after you've actually taken the 45 seconds to read FMLA. Here I'll actually make it easy for you.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/
Now I'll ask again, what the eff are you subsidizing?

[Mrs. Gooch]

Wait, it just occurred to me that a lot of you dumbasses are under the impression that paid maternity leave is some kind of law or something. LOL.

It should be

Yeah, my understanding was that several people were saying it should be paid, not that it currently is.

[star seed 7]

Mir, you should reread, something didn't translate right in the last few pages for you

[sys]

Walk me through what? Let's continue the conversation after you've actually taken the 45 seconds to read FMLA. Here I'll actually make it easy for you.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/
Now I'll ask again, what the eff are you subsidizing?

you may not believe this, but the only person that has referenced the fmla is you.  no one else is or has discussed it (although even unpaid leave presents a small cost to employers and/or other employees).

[MakeItRain]

Subsidized? Who subsidizes maternity leave.

the childless.

So this all started with people getting on yard dog for his plan to provide paid maternity leave (really odd stance for yard dog to take btw). I could be wrong but to me this spiraled from that to essentially all maternity leave is wrong. sys it seems at the point I quoted above you went from hypothetically addressing yard dogs plan to arguing against maternity leave, period.

Now going back through these last two pages it seems to me there are still a couple of posters who thinks we have mandated paid maternity leave, if you aren't one of those people, I apologize. However to contend that workers not on maternity leave pay some price for someone on maternity leave is ridiculous at best.

[sys]

So this all started with people getting on yard dog for his plan to provide paid maternity leave (really odd stance for yard dog to take btw). I could be wrong but to me this spiraled from that to essentially all maternity leave is wrong. sys it seems at the point I quoted above you went from hypothetically addressing yard dogs plan to arguing against maternity leave, period.

Now going back through these last two pages it seems to me there are still a couple of posters who thinks we have mandated paid maternity leave, if you aren't one of those people, I apologize. However to contend that workers not on maternity leave pay some price for someone on maternity leave is ridiculous at best.

great, now we are all on the same page.  btw, california, where i live and work, does have a law providing some % of paid parental leave, paid out of some sort of tax (i think a payroll tax of some sort, not positive).  but that's neither here nor there.

let's deal with your last contention.  i have a hard time following your logic.  apparently you believe that parental leave comes entirely out of an employers' profits/revenue as a zero sum game?  that there is no compensatory effect on employee wages and benefits overall?  that is a very strange position to take, and as far as i am aware it is one that is entirely unsupported by either economic theory or empirical evidence.

[Asteriskhead]

 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I also think only women should be allowed to determine abortion laws. As a male, I don't feel qualified as I really don't need to deal with any of the consequences women do.

I don't agree

I respect that.

I agree with lib7, and I respect his opinion!

Saying "eh, it's not my place to have an opinion or make policy on abortion because I'm a man" is beyond stupid. If you really believe that, you should read this piece: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/10/i-don-t-know-if-i-m-pro-choice-anymore.html#

I still consider myself pro-choice, as I have for the last 30 years. I staked out this position during my freshmen year in college. Even then, I understood the abortion debate was a tug-of-war between competing rights—those of the mother versus those of an unborn baby. I sided with the mother. And I tried not to think about the baby.
 
All this was happening in the 1980s, which was a particularly tense time in the abortion debate. Americans were at each other’s throats. Protesters picketed the offices of abortion providers. Clinics were bombed or set on fire. Doctors who performed abortions were being threatened. The Moral Majority, Operation Rescue, and the Republican Party seemed an intolerant lot. I couldn’t imagine siding with them, so I lined up on the pro-choice side.
 
I arrived there for a simple reason: Because I’m a man. Many will say that this is not a very good reason, but it is my reason. Lacking the ability to get pregnant, and thus spared what has been for women friends of mine the anguishing decision of whether to stay pregnant, I’ve remained on the sidelines and deferred to the other half of the population.

Over time, I made refinements—going along with waiting periods and parental notification laws at the state level, and coming out against the barbaric practice known as partial birth abortion.
 
As I’ve only realized lately, to be a man, and to declare yourself pro-choice, is to proclaim your neutrality. And, as I’ve only recently been willing to admit, even to myself, that’s another name for “wimping out.”

At least that’s how my wife sees it. She’s pro-life, and so she’s been tearing into me every time a new video is released. She’s not buying my argument that, as a man, I have to defer to women and trust them to make their own choices about what to do with their bodies. To her, that’s ridiculous—and cowardly.

“You can’t stand on the sidelines, especially now that you’ve seen these videos,” she told me recently. “That’s bullshit! These are babies that are being killed. Millions of them. And you need to use your voice to protect them. That’s what a man does. He protects children—his own children, and other children. That’s what it means to be a man.”
 
I didn’t like the scolding, but I needed to hear it. For those of us who are pro-choice, the Planned Parenthood videos are a game changer. As to whether that means I’ll change my view, I’m not sure. I’m on the bubble. Ask me in a few weeks, after the release of more videos.

Real men protect babies. Real men don't say "Oh, this is a real moral quandary, so I guess do whatever you want! Please don't accuse me of being a misogynist!" 

[star seed 7]

It's not a moral quandary for me 

[michigancat]

I don't have a problem with saying I am "wimping out" or not being a "real man" by thinking women are more qualified to make policy decisions regarding abortion.

Also I watched one of those videos and it didn't change my opinion.