Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?

[Asteriskhead]

So like, some people say "this issue is decided, it has been for a long time.  Abortion is legal, so give up."

I'm wondering if they feel the same way about 2nd amendment rights to firearms, which seem pretty well ingrained too.

I'd say the right to bear arms is more firmly ingrained. It's actually written in the Constitution, whereas the "right" to abortion is not. The right to abortion is purely a contrivance of Supreme Court jurisprudence, and even then it's not nearly as broad a right as people like CNS think it is.

all laws are a contrivance of humans.

[mocat]

i mean, observing an autopsy is the most enjoyable use of three hours of my free time that i've found yet.

autopsies used to be considered evil/immoral

[star seed 7]

Activist judges 

[mocat]

i mean, observing an autopsy is the most enjoyable use of three hours of my free time that i've found yet.

autopsies used to be considered evil/immoral

feel the qyburn

[Asteriskhead]

i mean, observing an autopsy is the most enjoyable use of three hours of my free time that i've found yet.

autopsies used to be considered evil/immoral

feel the qyburn

 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

really though, any medical procedure is gross if it involves cutting stuff and whatnot, which is like, all of them. ksuw are you going to sit there and tell me you watch videos of doctors mercilessly ripping people's chests open and messing around with heart valves and such, and don't even get the least bit squeamish?

It's funny, you're bringing up a point raised by another liberal in a Slate piece I read a few months ago.

As someone who is squeamish, it was extremely difficult for me to listen to Nucatola talk about extracting liver, heart, and other parts to be donated to medical research. (I nearly fainted when a friend showed me the video of her knee operation once.) But people who work in medicine for a living do, in fact, become inured to the gore in a way that can seem strange to those of us who aren't regularly exposed to it. She also thought she was speaking to people in her profession who would be similarly accustomed to this sort of thing.

Abortion is gross, no doubt about it. It becomes grosser the later in a pregnancy it gets. But so is heart surgery. So is child-birth, for that matter. We don't deny people who need help in those cases because the help is gross. Nor should we deny people that help when it comes to needing abortion. We also shouldn't deny women who want to donate fetal or embryonic remains to science any more than we would deny someone who wants to be an organ donor, even though the latter is also quite gross to ponder.

I'm still not understanding the point that you (and her) are trying to make. Are you really arguing that these procedures are somehow similar because they're both "gross"? The difference is that one procedure is destroying a human life, the other is fixing a heart, or a knee, etc. I really don't understand where you're going with this.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

So like, some people say "this issue is decided, it has been for a long time.  Abortion is legal, so give up."

I'm wondering if they feel the same way about 2nd amendment rights to firearms, which seem pretty well ingrained too.

I'd say the right to bear arms is more firmly ingrained. It's actually written in the Constitution, whereas the "right" to abortion is not. The right to abortion is purely a contrivance of Supreme Court jurisprudence, and even then it's not nearly as broad a right as people like CNS think it is.

all laws are a contrivance of humans.

The difference is that some laws are duly written and passed by the legislature - like our Constitution mandates - and some are just made up by judges.

[SdK]

I'm more upset by people having too many children, being shitty parents, neglect, abuse, parents of obese children, etc, then I ever will be about abortion.

If abortion in some way stops any of the laundry list of things shitty people do by having children, I'm all about that. It does society a favor. Do I think it is terrible? Yes. But I think it serves a greater good.

Huh. You know, murdering babies is actually pretty common throughout history. I'm sure they would tell you it was "for the greater good," too. Appears we haven't advanced much.

We havent.

[star seed 7]

Abortion is fixing a pregnancy

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

i mean, observing an autopsy is the most enjoyable use of three hours of my free time that i've found yet.

autopsies used to be considered evil/immoral

You ghouls are really knocking it out of the park today. So now we're comparing abortion to autopsies. The killing of human life is really no different than studying a body that's already dead.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I'm more upset by people having too many children, being shitty parents, neglect, abuse, parents of obese children, etc, then I ever will be about abortion.

If abortion in some way stops any of the laundry list of things shitty people do by having children, I'm all about that. It does society a favor. Do I think it is terrible? Yes. But I think it serves a greater good.

Huh. You know, murdering babies is actually pretty common throughout history. I'm sure they would tell you it was "for the greater good," too. Appears we haven't advanced much.

We havent.

And that makes it Ok?

[DQ12]

So like, some people say "this issue is decided, it has been for a long time.  Abortion is legal, so give up."

I'm wondering if they feel the same way about 2nd amendment rights to firearms, which seem pretty well ingrained too.

I'd say the right to bear arms is more firmly ingrained. It's actually written in the Constitution, whereas the "right" to abortion is not. The right to abortion is purely a contrivance of Supreme Court jurisprudence, and even then it's not nearly as broad a right as people like CNS think it is.

I wasn't talking to you

[renocat]

Abortion is legal on the grounds we can't tell a woman what to do with her body.  I think the unborn should have the right to be born, but if it is tissue to you then it's hamburger.   I object to my taxes being used by Planned Hamburger to carve up destroyed fetuses, humans, into cold cuts to be sold to the highest bidder.   This is on part with brain stab and kill abortions.

[Yard Dog]

https://twitter.com/CatNamedLily/status/644343910790234114

https://twitter.com/MattLugar/status/644966883658219520

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

This thread has been a real treat so far! I thought it might be helpful to provide a half-time scorecard of all the ridiculous arguments advanced so far in support of unrestricted abortion:

1. At the exact moment you exit the womb, that's when the birth fairy magically transforms you from a clump of cells into a human being worthy of protection - lib7

2. Well duh, that's why we celebrate birthdays! - Trim

3. "The government has no more obligation to protect people in the womb than they do people in Mexico. You don't get citizenship until birth." - RATM (this one is my personal favorite so far )

4. States don't charge murderers of preganant women with double murder because of the baby - it's because the dad is also a victim! - Also RATM (this one was a close second in the utter nonsense department)

5. But abortion is legal! - RATM and CNS (thanks captains obvious - that's not what we're discussing)

6. Planned Parenthood would shut down if it couldn't provide abortion - Mrs. G (why do you assume that?)

7. The Supreme Court already decided this - CNS (no, not really)

8. Abortions are only a very small amount of the services Planned Parenthood provides - CNS ( yeah, kinda like how Major League Baseball is in the hot dog business because it sells way more hotdogs than baseball games)

9. Those undercover videos are "heavily edited" - CNS (like every other TV media piece, excpt the CfMP also made the full versions available online)

10. You just don't like abortion because it's gross, but so is open heart surgery! - Mocat, Roid (yup, no difference between the objectives of those procedures - none at all)

11. And autopsies! (see above)

12. IT'S FOR THE GREATER GOOD!! - Sundance (I'm sure that's what any conquering tribe/army throughout history has thought as they tossed the babies in the river - it doesn't make it true or any less barbaric)

[Trim]

Not a person.

[Mrs. Gooch]

Your reading comprehension is atrocious.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Your reading comprehension is atrocious.

How so? You said:

Shutting down Planned Parenthood is going to increase the number of unwanted pregnancies, and thus increase the demand for abortions.

To which I asked you: Why do you assume Planned Parenthood would shut down and cease offering birth control or health screenings if it couldn't provide abortion?

To which you never replied.

[SdK]

I'm more upset by people having too many children, being shitty parents, neglect, abuse, parents of obese children, etc, then I ever will be about abortion.

If abortion in some way stops any of the laundry list of things shitty people do by having children, I'm all about that. It does society a favor. Do I think it is terrible? Yes. But I think it serves a greater good.

Huh. You know, murdering babies is actually pretty common throughout history. I'm sure they would tell you it was "for the greater good," too. Appears we haven't advanced much.

We havent.

And that makes it Ok?

It makes things what they are.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I'm more upset by people having too many children, being shitty parents, neglect, abuse, parents of obese children, etc, then I ever will be about abortion.

If abortion in some way stops any of the laundry list of things shitty people do by having children, I'm all about that. It does society a favor. Do I think it is terrible? Yes. But I think it serves a greater good.

Huh. You know, murdering babies is actually pretty common throughout history. I'm sure they would tell you it was "for the greater good," too. Appears we haven't advanced much.

We havent.

And that makes it Ok?

It makes things what they are.

Ok, your answer may be "it is what it is" - but that's really no different than "it's the law." The point of this thread is whether it should be.

[Mrs. Gooch]

Your reading comprehension is atrocious.

How so? You said:

Shutting down Planned Parenthood is going to increase the number of unwanted pregnancies, and thus increase the demand for abortions.

To which I asked you: Why do you assume Planned Parenthood would shut down and cease offering birth control or health screenings if it couldn't provide abortion?

To which you never replied.

Aren't you the person who was accusing people of making up things to fit their story when they didn't have all the facts? But I guess it is ok for you to just make up my answer when you didn't receive one.

[SdK]

It should be legal. If we lived in a society full of productive members that contribute. Full of people dedicating to bettering themselves and those around them, I would absolutely be all for making abortion illegal past a certain time frame. (If you had unprotected sex and worry it may have caused a pregnancy, go get that crap vacuumed out within the month)

The truth of the matter is that society is not that way. There are a lot of people born into shitty situations that damn them for life. I don't think forcing more children to be born into that is helpful at all to anyone.

[star seed 7]

Your reading comprehension is atrocious.

How so? You said:

Shutting down Planned Parenthood is going to increase the number of unwanted pregnancies, and thus increase the demand for abortions.

To which I asked you: Why do you assume Planned Parenthood would shut down and cease offering birth control or health screenings if it couldn't provide abortion?

To which you never replied.

well defunding planned parenthood would have the logical ending of shutting down planned parenthood.  abortions already recieve no tax money (which is stupid imo). she's right, your reading comprehension is atrotious

[star seed 7]

Not a person.

 

[Yard Dog]

Your reading comprehension is atrocious.

How so? You said:

Shutting down Planned Parenthood is going to increase the number of unwanted pregnancies, and thus increase the demand for abortions.

To which I asked you: Why do you assume Planned Parenthood would shut down and cease offering birth control or health screenings if it couldn't provide abortion?

To which you never replied.

Aren't you the person who was accusing people of making up things to fit their story when they didn't have all the facts? But I guess it is ok for you to just make up my answer when you didn't receive one.

In cased you missed it, there are so many other options besides PP but those don't donate any money to the dems:

https://twitter.com/CatNamedLily/status/644343910790234114

https://twitter.com/MattLugar/status/644966883658219520