Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?

[CNS]

You can claim it's dumbassery all you want but the reality is that the ruling did make abortions legal and this is a move by the religious right to make them unavailable since they can't make them illegal.   It's politically the next best thing and exactly why they are doing this.

Diluting this specific discussion(pp) by trying to talk about late term vs first trimester is stupid and does nothing to defend the defunding.

It's like you didn't even bother to read past "dumbassery"! I clearly explain why you're wrong, and you're just gonna keep on truckin' anyway! 

Would it help if I broke it down into pieces? Here's the first part:

First, regarding "an already fought supreme court case" - to which case are you referring? Roe v. Wade? You should actually read that opinion. Or, you can just read this very short summary of the opinion. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/roe_v._wade_1973. Suffice it to say, RvW only granted a right (not found in the Constitution of course - the justices just made it up) to unrestricted abortion in the first trimester. The court found that the states had increasingly compelling interests (stronger authority) to restrict abortion in the latter trimesters. Subsequent decisions have further muddied the waters, but even under current jurisprudence, there is no Constitutional right to unrestricted abortion.

Ok, so unrestricted abortion in the first trimester isn't going to be much more unavailable with PP defunded?   

Maybe let's slow it down a little so you don't keep getting off course:
1. abortion is legal, right?  First trimester, or whatever, there is legal abortion, right?

2. Shutting down the only place where abortions were available for a certain segment of the pop is making them mostly unavailable to that segment of the pop, right?

You keep trying to argue evil, but legality and limiting the availability of a service is what this should be all about.  Evil has nothing to do with it. 

[Cartierfor3]

guys, i deleted my post. decided i don't want to get into it here. you guys are good people and good friends FYI.

[Trim]

You know what's funny? This is a just a hoot!

O’Donnell describes the harvesting, or “procurement,” of organs from a nearly intact late-term fetus aborted at Planned Parenthood Mar Monte’s Alameda clinic in San Jose, CA. “‘I want to see something kind of cool,'” O’Donnell says her supervisor asked her. “And she just taps the heart, and it starts beating. And I’m sitting here and I’m looking at this fetus, and its heart is beating, and I don’t know what to think.”
 
The San Jose Planned Parenthood does abortions up to 20 weeks of pregnancy. Referring to the beating heart of the aborted fetus, O’Donnell remarks, “I don’t know if that constitutes it’s technically dead, or it’s alive.”
 
O’Donnell also tells how her StemExpress supervisor instructed her to cut through the face of the fetus in order to get the brain. “”She gave me the scissors and told me that I had to cut down the middle of the face. I can’t even describe what that feels like,” she says.

That's not evil - it's reproductive health, amiright?!

Not evil.

[star seed 7]

Mark me down for not evil as well

[star seed 7]

Also I'd like to note how it's interesting that this is the topic to turn trim into a pit'r

[star seed 7]

You guys know what actually is evil? Health insurance companies

[Asteriskhead]

good vs. evil. lol. wtf is this, narnia?

[Trim]

Also I'd like to note how it's interesting that this is the topic to turn trim into a pit'r

It's not, but I only look in here every once in a while and only comment on the threads that are recent so that I don't have to read a bunch to get up to speed.

[star seed 7]

You need an iPad text to speech app at 2x speed

[Trim]

You need an iPad text to speech app at 2x speed

I need the bbs intern I thought about getting when I was off for a week after lasik-ish surgery.

[DQ12]

Do people that call this a settled area of the law feel the same way about 2nd amendment jurisprudence?

[star seed 7]

Do people that call this a settled area of the law feel the same way about 2nd amendment jurisprudence?

Can you reword this for dumb people (me)?

[DQ12]

So like, some people say "this issue is decided, it has been for a long time.  Abortion is legal, so give up."

I'm wondering if they feel the same way about 2nd amendment rights to firearms, which seem pretty well ingrained too. 

[mocat]

KSUW does not give one single F about abortion being "evil". he hates it because (just like homo gay sex) it's "icky"

[Tobias]

(just like homo gay sex)

did you watch that video too?  talk about gross AF

[Trim]

Childbirth videos also kind of gross, imo.

[star seed 7]

Child birth is evil

[SdK]

I'm more upset by people having too many children, being shitty parents, neglect, abuse, parents of obese children, etc, then I ever will be about abortion.

[SdK]

I'm more upset by people having too many children, being shitty parents, neglect, abuse, parents of obese children, etc, then I ever will be about abortion.

If abortion in some way stops any of the laundry list of things shitty people do by having children, I'm all about that. It does society a favor. Do I think it is terrible? Yes. But I think it serves a greater good.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

KSUW does not give one single F about abortion being "evil". he hates it because (just like homo gay sex) it's "icky"

Ok bub. Think what you want.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I'm more upset by people having too many children, being shitty parents, neglect, abuse, parents of obese children, etc, then I ever will be about abortion.

If abortion in some way stops any of the laundry list of things shitty people do by having children, I'm all about that. It does society a favor. Do I think it is terrible? Yes. But I think it serves a greater good.

Huh. You know, murdering babies is actually pretty common throughout history. I'm sure they would tell you it was "for the greater good," too. Appears we haven't advanced much.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

You can claim it's dumbassery all you want but the reality is that the ruling did make abortions legal and this is a move by the religious right to make them unavailable since they can't make them illegal.   It's politically the next best thing and exactly why they are doing this.

Diluting this specific discussion(pp) by trying to talk about late term vs first trimester is stupid and does nothing to defend the defunding.

It's like you didn't even bother to read past "dumbassery"! I clearly explain why you're wrong, and you're just gonna keep on truckin' anyway! 

Would it help if I broke it down into pieces? Here's the first part:

First, regarding "an already fought supreme court case" - to which case are you referring? Roe v. Wade? You should actually read that opinion. Or, you can just read this very short summary of the opinion. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/roe_v._wade_1973. Suffice it to say, RvW only granted a right (not found in the Constitution of course - the justices just made it up) to unrestricted abortion in the first trimester. The court found that the states had increasingly compelling interests (stronger authority) to restrict abortion in the latter trimesters. Subsequent decisions have further muddied the waters, but even under current jurisprudence, there is no Constitutional right to unrestricted abortion.

Ok, so unrestricted abortion in the first trimester isn't going to be much more unavailable with PP defunded?   

Maybe let's slow it down a little so you don't keep getting off course:
1. abortion is legal, right?  First trimester, or whatever, there is legal abortion, right?

2. Shutting down the only place where abortions were available for a certain segment of the pop is making them mostly unavailable to that segment of the pop, right?

You keep trying to argue evil, but legality and limiting the availability of a service is what this should be all about.  Evil has nothing to do with it.

I've already answers both of your points, repeatedly.

1. As I've already said, I agree that abortion is legal in most states/situations. The point of this thread is not to argue whether abortion is legal in most cases, which is a given, but the morality of abortion and whether/when it should be legal.

2. Yes, if you close abortion clinics, it makes them harder to get. That's kinda the point.

[mocat]

really though, any medical procedure is gross if it involves cutting stuff and whatnot, which is like, all of them. ksuw are you going to sit there and tell me you watch videos of doctors mercilessly ripping people's chests open and messing around with heart valves and such, and don't even get the least bit squeamish?

[Asteriskhead]

i mean, observing an autopsy is the most enjoyable use of three hours of my free time that i've found yet.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

So like, some people say "this issue is decided, it has been for a long time.  Abortion is legal, so give up."

I'm wondering if they feel the same way about 2nd amendment rights to firearms, which seem pretty well ingrained too.

I'd say the right to bear arms is more firmly ingrained. It's actually written in the Constitution, whereas the "right" to abortion is not. The right to abortion is purely a contrivance of Supreme Court jurisprudence, and even then it's not nearly as broad a right as people like CNS think it is.