Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 4979314 times)

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Offline star seed 7

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24000 on: January 30, 2013, 05:11:41 PM »
I've always wanted to have a seriously involved debate with someone who thinks players should be paid, because I don't think the thought process of these people moves beyond "THE NCAA IS GETTING SO RICH."

i do think kids should get money from video games that blatently use their likeness, in exchange they should be able to put names in the games.
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24001 on: January 30, 2013, 05:30:41 PM »
I've always wanted to have a seriously involved debate with someone who thinks players should be paid, because I don't think the thought process of these people moves beyond "THE NCAA IS GETTING SO RICH."

i do think kids should get money from video games that blatently use their likeness, in exchange they should be able to put names in the games.

None of these games use likenesses, they do use uniform numbers, home states, and measurables though.

I think that players should get 10-15% of any money directly earned by the university directly off of the name, likeness, or uniform number of the athlete, examples being the 22 basketball uniforms and all the crap they put 7 on during football season. Varneys put the number 7 on purses, made me sick that Klein won't see a dime of that money. I would exempt gameday programs and media guides from this and the players would get the money in a lump sum when they exhaust their eligibility.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24002 on: January 30, 2013, 05:32:19 PM »
Oh yeah, CLC would track and distribute the money.

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24003 on: January 30, 2013, 05:41:36 PM »
I've always wanted to have a seriously involved debate with someone who thinks players should be paid, because I don't think the thought process of these people moves beyond "THE NCAA IS GETTING SO RICH."

i do think kids should get money from video games that blatently use their likeness, in exchange they should be able to put names in the games.

None of these games use likenesses, they do use uniform numbers, home states, and measurables though.

I think that players should get 10-15% of any money directly earned by the university directly off of the name, likeness, or uniform number of the athlete, examples being the 22 basketball uniforms and all the crap they put 7 on during football season. Varneys put the number 7 on purses, made me sick that Klein won't see a dime of that money. I would exempt gameday programs and media guides from this and the players would get the money in a lump sum when they exhaust their eligibility.

I see that widening a disparity of have and have-nots across different schools.  In a pretty fair analogy, Tebow was probably selling at least 10x what Klein did in college.  If they wanted to take that 10%, put it in a pool across all athletes at that level in the sport, and pay it out equally then I could get behind that.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24004 on: January 30, 2013, 05:50:49 PM »
I've always wanted to have a seriously involved debate with someone who thinks players should be paid, because I don't think the thought process of these people moves beyond "THE NCAA IS GETTING SO RICH."

i do think kids should get money from video games that blatently use their likeness, in exchange they should be able to put names in the games.

None of these games use likenesses, they do use uniform numbers, home states, and measurables though.

I think that players should get 10-15% of any money directly earned by the university directly off of the name, likeness, or uniform number of the athlete, examples being the 22 basketball uniforms and all the crap they put 7 on during football season. Varneys put the number 7 on purses, made me sick that Klein won't see a dime of that money. I would exempt gameday programs and media guides from this and the players would get the money in a lump sum when they exhaust their eligibility.

i'm aware they don't use an actual photographic likeness, but the things you mentioned to me are enough to establish "likeness" in my book (fully aware that it's not legally enough, just to save you some time).  for 95% of the players there is no question who they are imitating.  even if they left off the numbers, you could reasonably tell who each player is by stats/home town.  basically i find this fair because every d1 team is represented in an ncaa game, so it's not like a kid will chose a school because he'll make more money there.

merchandising i'm split on, because of the reason above, but i agree that it's pretty shameful that CK won't make money off of the #7 stuff.
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24005 on: January 30, 2013, 06:05:04 PM »
I've always wanted to have a seriously involved debate with someone who thinks players should be paid, because I don't think the thought process of these people moves beyond "THE NCAA IS GETTING SO RICH."

i do think kids should get money from video games that blatently use their likeness, in exchange they should be able to put names in the games.

None of these games use likenesses, they do use uniform numbers, home states, and measurables though.

I think that players should get 10-15% of any money directly earned by the university directly off of the name, likeness, or uniform number of the athlete, examples being the 22 basketball uniforms and all the crap they put 7 on during football season. Varneys put the number 7 on purses, made me sick that Klein won't see a dime of that money. I would exempt gameday programs and media guides from this and the players would get the money in a lump sum when they exhaust their eligibility.

I see that widening a disparity of have and have-nots across different schools.  In a pretty fair analogy, Tebow was probably selling at least 10x what Klein did in college.  If they wanted to take that 10%, put it in a pool across all athletes at that level in the sport, and pay it out equally then I could get behind that.

I don't agree with that at all, I think revenue driven on the backs of name/number/likeness is entirely performance based and can't be used as a recruiting pitch. No school or retailer is going to manufacture $50,000 dollars worth of replica jerseys for a random recruit with the hope that someday he will be good. I assure you that RG3 sold more 3 jerseys than whomever the Florida QB was that season. I'm sure Baylor is still selling 3 jerseys and he can't get any of that money. Tebow sold 10x the amount of Klein, no doubt, but how are you going to recruit based on the hypothetical that you might be good enough to sell jerseys at a high level?

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24006 on: January 30, 2013, 06:20:15 PM »
the superstars would be outliers though.  picking a school because your potential profits might be higher is something i would like to avoid.  there is no doubt that had CK played for a bigger school (say texas), his potential earnings would be much higher.

it's just an added sales pitch that the larger/more traditional schools get when they already have huge advantages.
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Offline ChiComCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24007 on: January 30, 2013, 06:41:57 PM »
[large quote redacted]

Absolutely ability has something to do with it.  But potential jersey sales has a much smaller ceiling at K-State than Texas.  If RG3 played at UT instead of Baylor, he would of sold at least 3x the jerseys.  Players are being told every step of the way they are going to be stars from recruiters/friends/family on top of their own confidence from playing well in HS/JuCos.  A lot think they are special and are going to be stars at the next level, even if logic doesn't support it.  They are convinced they are capable/going to hit the peaks of stardom.  They will go to whatever school has the highest peak at that point.

Offline chum1

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24008 on: January 30, 2013, 06:50:56 PM »
I don't give a eff if they don't get paid.  They do it voluntarily.  If they want to earn a paycheck, they can play elsewhere.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24009 on: January 31, 2013, 08:42:03 AM »
I don't give a eff if they don't get paid.  They do it voluntarily.  If they want to earn a paycheck, they can play elsewhere.
You know, it wouldn't even come up if the coaches make similar salaries to the faculty members of the school they "teach" at.
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Offline Clevey 2 Times

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24010 on: January 31, 2013, 09:01:18 AM »
Agreed that most people advocating pay for play tend to never get past the "everyone else is getting so rich" argument, but I think if you had a serious discussion the argument for pay for play would have to rest on the issue of labor. Of course the big problem with that line of argument is that the NCAA continues to be able to play the "amateurism" card legitimately (regardless of what you think about the argument). Anyways, there is a pretty damn convincing (common sense) argument in favor of pay for play for football and men's hoops in power conferences, but the legal argument is challenging. After this O'Bannon case gets resolved maybe we'll have a clearer sense of the future.

My own hope, the power conferences (at least in football and men's hoops) break away from the NCAA, pay players, and be clear about the fact that they are running a revenue generating entertainment business.

Also, Mark Emmert is terrible.

Offline MadCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24011 on: January 31, 2013, 10:58:23 AM »

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24012 on: January 31, 2013, 03:20:04 PM »
Agreed that most people advocating pay for play tend to never get past the "everyone else is getting so rich" argument, but I think if you had a serious discussion the argument for pay for play would have to rest on the issue of labor. Of course the big problem with that line of argument is that the NCAA continues to be able to play the "amateurism" card legitimately (regardless of what you think about the argument). Anyways, there is a pretty damn convincing (common sense) argument in favor of pay for play for football and men's hoops in power conferences, but the legal argument is challenging. After this O'Bannon case gets resolved maybe we'll have a clearer sense of the future.

Title IX

My own hope, the power conferences (at least in football and men's hoops) break away from the NCAA, pay players, and be clear about the fact that they are running a revenue generating entertainment business.

Not even getting into the fact that I don't think they will be able to afford it, do you realize how bad the cheating would be then? Also people keep talking about this as if the NCAA is some structure holding the institutions back. The institutions are the NCAA, its the university presidents that make the rules, people in Indianapolis are carrying out the rules that the schools set. The institutions are the dog, the NCAA is the wagging tail. What exactly would change if the institutions that run the NCAA started running another governing body?

Also, Mark Emmert is terrible.

I have also enjoyed that in the wake of the NCAA reporting they messed up that people are calling Emmert and the NCAA crooked and demanding that he resign. LOfreakingL. So let me get this straight, the guy is crooked because he volunteered that he had an investigator that went rogue and he hired an outside firm to look at how they are doing things? What am I missing, isn't being transparent like the opposite of being crooked? The only thing he's done that I didn't like were the Penn State sanctions, but those idiots agreed to them before they were levied, they should have sued first.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24013 on: January 31, 2013, 03:29:12 PM »
So the SEC is all over our deek to do some joint scheduling.  Big surprise

Offline Clevey 2 Times

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24014 on: January 31, 2013, 03:34:16 PM »
Agreed that most people advocating pay for play tend to never get past the "everyone else is getting so rich" argument, but I think if you had a serious discussion the argument for pay for play would have to rest on the issue of labor. Of course the big problem with that line of argument is that the NCAA continues to be able to play the "amateurism" card legitimately (regardless of what you think about the argument). Anyways, there is a pretty damn convincing (common sense) argument in favor of pay for play for football and men's hoops in power conferences, but the legal argument is challenging. After this O'Bannon case gets resolved maybe we'll have a clearer sense of the future.

Title IX

My own hope, the power conferences (at least in football and men's hoops) break away from the NCAA, pay players, and be clear about the fact that they are running a revenue generating entertainment business.

Not even getting into the fact that I don't think they will be able to afford it, do you realize how bad the cheating would be then? Also people keep talking about this as if the NCAA is some structure holding the institutions back. The institutions are the NCAA, its the university presidents that make the rules, people in Indianapolis are carrying out the rules that the schools set. The institutions are the dog, the NCAA is the wagging tail. What exactly would change if the institutions that run the NCAA started running another governing body?

Also, Mark Emmert is terrible.

I have also enjoyed that in the wake of the NCAA reporting they messed up that people are calling Emmert and the NCAA crooked and demanding that he resign. LOfreakingL. So let me get this straight, the guy is crooked because he volunteered that he had an investigator that went rogue and he hired an outside firm to look at how they are doing things? What am I missing, isn't being transparent like the opposite of being crooked? The only thing he's done that I didn't like were the Penn State sanctions, but those idiots agreed to them before they were levied, they should have sued first.

Title IX - meaning that's what would get in the way of pay for play?

I never said the power conferences going off outside the purview of the NCAA would be some solution, I think its just gets us going down the road to what should ultimately be more of a "minor league" so to speak (not that teams assign players, but that these guys make some cash for what is really an entertainment industry). Maybe in the end they don't get much cash considering the tuition, etc. is a hefty price tag. Long term, I just think moving this toward more of a formalized labor relationship would help, not allowing the NCAA to hide behind the guise of amateurism, etc. The current NCAA, although effectively run by Univ. Presidents is a bureaucratic nightmare that is at least in need of serious reform and just maybe some of these Presidents will want to ditch the effort all together. I'm speculating more than anything.

Also, I don't think Emmert is terrible because of the internal investigation going on. For all I know, Emmert inherited that culture or those were bad apples. I just don't find Emmert's "big changes" to the NCAA as all that "big", but maybe he can only stretch so far as the Presidents will let him.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24015 on: January 31, 2013, 03:35:50 PM »
So the SEC is all over our deek to do some joint scheduling.  Big surprise

I called this in basketball a while ago and I want it badly.

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=24844.msg677750#msg677750

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24016 on: January 31, 2013, 03:48:32 PM »
Title IX - meaning that's what would get in the way of pay for play?

I never said the power conferences going off outside the purview of the NCAA would be some solution, I think its just gets us going down the road to what should ultimately be more of a "minor league" so to speak (not that teams assign players, but that these guys make some cash for what is really an entertainment industry). Maybe in the end they don't get much cash considering the tuition, etc. is a hefty price tag. Long term, I just think moving this toward more of a formalized labor relationship would help, not allowing the NCAA to hide behind the guise of amateurism, etc. The current NCAA, although effectively run by Univ. Presidents is a bureaucratic nightmare that is at least in need of serious reform and just maybe some of these Presidents will want to ditch the effort all together. I'm speculating more than anything.

Also, I don't think Emmert is terrible because of the internal investigation going on. For all I know, Emmert inherited that culture or those were bad apples. I just don't find Emmert's "big changes" to the NCAA as all that "big", but maybe he can only stretch so far as the Presidents will let him.

Yes, Title IX gets in the way of pay for play the way you propose. You know Title IX is not just about providing an equal number of sports right? Nobody will ever get paid to play under your scenario. The topic of amateurism is nothing new, the debate has raged as long as we have played amateur sports in this country. There is no way to pay athletes in revenue sports and those sports retain amateur status. We already have pro football and basketball leagues in this country. Outside of the patent unfairness that a pay structure would bring about, the real pro leagues would crush any semi-pro type of league this would make. You forget that academic structures run college athletics and it has to remain that way for college athletics to be viable. If the University of Alabama football team became the Tuscaloosa Titans, they would lose popularity real quick. No university or governing body will allow this to happen. The current and long standing relationship between universities and their athletic department is comfortable for both parties and it works for everyone, it isn't changing.

As for Emmert, he has been much more transparent and open to reform than any of his predecessors. Some of the reforms thrown around are quite radical as well like athlete stipends (the only way a college athlete will ever be paid) and this stupid ass proposed cbb transfer rule.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24017 on: January 31, 2013, 05:09:19 PM »
This is where I thought it was going the minute I heard about the Champion's Bowl:

http://www.mrsec.com/2013/01/how-an-sec-big-xii-scheduling-alliance-could-doom-the-acc/

Still a long way to go to get there, but it would be amazing.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 05:15:29 PM by Ira Hayes »

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24018 on: January 31, 2013, 06:21:43 PM »
It is clear to me that the Big 12 fully intends to expand by adding ACC teams.

The scheduling alliance discussions are a smokescreen.  Our administrators will work with theirs, but we will end up being unable to come to an agreement.

The talk about petitioning the NCAA for the right to hold a championship game with less than 12 members is a non-starter.  The NCAA told the Big Ten "no" for years.  Why would they change now?

The end result will be that the Big 12 will be able to say "we tried".  We tried to work out an agreement with the ACC, but couldn't get it done.  We tried to achieve our goals without having to poach a team or two, but the NCAA shot us down.  Our only recourse will then be to go ahead an expand.  By that point, the Maryland/ACC lawsuit will be settled and the buyout precedent will be established.  UVA/GT will be packing their bags for the Big Ten.  All that will be left to do will be for the Big 12 to decide whether we want to expand to 12, 14 or 16.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24019 on: January 31, 2013, 06:29:04 PM »

The talk about petitioning the NCAA for the right to hold a championship game with less than 12 members is a non-starter.  The NCAA told the Big Ten "no" for years.  Why would they change now?



Because when they told the Big 10 "no," they weren't dealing with conference Armageddon.  They might do it now in the hopes (albeit foolish) that it somehow helps slow down or stop conference re-alignment by making the Big 12 happy to not expand.

I expect them to say yes.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24020 on: January 31, 2013, 06:42:02 PM »
I think this SEC thing is for the benefit of FSU and Clump so they can go bigtime, not break the SEC gentlemen agreement about not adding same state teams and still keep their rivalries.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24021 on: February 01, 2013, 02:51:01 PM »
Title IX - meaning that's what would get in the way of pay for play?

I never said the power conferences going off outside the purview of the NCAA would be some solution, I think its just gets us going down the road to what should ultimately be more of a "minor league" so to speak (not that teams assign players, but that these guys make some cash for what is really an entertainment industry). Maybe in the end they don't get much cash considering the tuition, etc. is a hefty price tag. Long term, I just think moving this toward more of a formalized labor relationship would help, not allowing the NCAA to hide behind the guise of amateurism, etc. The current NCAA, although effectively run by Univ. Presidents is a bureaucratic nightmare that is at least in need of serious reform and just maybe some of these Presidents will want to ditch the effort all together. I'm speculating more than anything.

Also, I don't think Emmert is terrible because of the internal investigation going on. For all I know, Emmert inherited that culture or those were bad apples. I just don't find Emmert's "big changes" to the NCAA as all that "big", but maybe he can only stretch so far as the Presidents will let him.

Yes, Title IX gets in the way of pay for play the way you propose. You know Title IX is not just about providing an equal number of sports right? Nobody will ever get paid to play under your scenario. The topic of amateurism is nothing new, the debate has raged as long as we have played amateur sports in this country. There is no way to pay athletes in revenue sports and those sports retain amateur status. We already have pro football and basketball leagues in this country. Outside of the patent unfairness that a pay structure would bring about, the real pro leagues would crush any semi-pro type of league this would make. You forget that academic structures run college athletics and it has to remain that way for college athletics to be viable. If the University of Alabama football team became the Tuscaloosa Titans, they would lose popularity real quick. No university or governing body will allow this to happen. The current and long standing relationship between universities and their athletic department is comfortable for both parties and it works for everyone, it isn't changing.

As for Emmert, he has been much more transparent and open to reform than any of his predecessors. Some of the reforms thrown around are quite radical as well like athlete stipends (the only way a college athlete will ever be paid) and this stupid ass proposed cbb transfer rule.

I do realize that Title IX is not simply about equal numbers of sports and I cannot speak to legal precedent in this area so I'll take your word on that one.

What I was alluding to with the amateurism topic was that high school athletes should have a viable option to play professionally in this country whenever they have the talent to sell their labor. To be quite honest, I don't think universities and colleges should be allowed to give athletic scholarships at all. It undermines the academic mission of the institution. Do I think any of this will happen? Not in a million years, because as you say the parties are both comfortable with the arrangement.

But, could there be a way to retain the big time college football and men's hoops programs, while also paying players, and not giving them athletic scholarships? At a few institutions, athletic departments can pay for themselves, but in nearly every other case they cannot. Maybe if football and men's hoops just paid for themselves and organized outside of the constraints of amateur athletics? I dunno, but I think you may be surprised to find out that these teams would remain popular without having to become the Tuscaloosa Titans. I loved having Mike Beasley play for the Cats, but any somewhat objective view on the situation would conclude that considering him a "student" is a perversion

The other line of thinking that doesn't get into paying players or dealing with the amateurism tag, would be to hold coaches accountable for something other than just wins and losses. Put coaches through the same tenure review process that all full time college faculty go through. Make them accountable by other measures as well. Find better ways to limit the time they devote to the sport and actually police this. In other words, all of these informal requirements of players need to go if they are also pursuing a college degree. Otherwise, if these are only going to be prepping grounds for professional athletes they should be organized as such. Its a tough situation to deal with fairly considering there are many more athletes who get athletic scholarships and graduate college with zero chance at professional sports than those that go on to make millions. So, for them its worked, but why should limited scholarship monies go to athletic prowess? Especially considering the state of higher education funding across most of this country. We're talking federal and state funding of higher education having been considerably cut over the past 2 decades. Just speaking from experience, at a big state school I formerly worked for in the mid-90s about half of the budget came from the feds and state, today that figure is about 17%. These cuts weren't just about dealing with institutional inefficiencies (of which there are many), they were severe enough to really fundamentally change the way business gets done (meaning larger and larger classrooms, less tenured faculty, more part time teachers).

Anyways, I sense things coming to a head more so than they have in my life, its just interesting to discuss potential change but I sense that you think those changes will be rather minor - such as small stipends for players.


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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24022 on: February 01, 2013, 03:57:54 PM »
Title IX - meaning that's what would get in the way of pay for play?

I never said the power conferences going off outside the purview of the NCAA would be some solution, I think its just gets us going down the road to what should ultimately be more of a "minor league" so to speak (not that teams assign players, but that these guys make some cash for what is really an entertainment industry). Maybe in the end they don't get much cash considering the tuition, etc. is a hefty price tag. Long term, I just think moving this toward more of a formalized labor relationship would help, not allowing the NCAA to hide behind the guise of amateurism, etc. The current NCAA, although effectively run by Univ. Presidents is a bureaucratic nightmare that is at least in need of serious reform and just maybe some of these Presidents will want to ditch the effort all together. I'm speculating more than anything.

Also, I don't think Emmert is terrible because of the internal investigation going on. For all I know, Emmert inherited that culture or those were bad apples. I just don't find Emmert's "big changes" to the NCAA as all that "big", but maybe he can only stretch so far as the Presidents will let him.

Yes, Title IX gets in the way of pay for play the way you propose. You know Title IX is not just about providing an equal number of sports right? Nobody will ever get paid to play under your scenario. The topic of amateurism is nothing new, the debate has raged as long as we have played amateur sports in this country. There is no way to pay athletes in revenue sports and those sports retain amateur status. We already have pro football and basketball leagues in this country. Outside of the patent unfairness that a pay structure would bring about, the real pro leagues would crush any semi-pro type of league this would make. You forget that academic structures run college athletics and it has to remain that way for college athletics to be viable. If the University of Alabama football team became the Tuscaloosa Titans, they would lose popularity real quick. No university or governing body will allow this to happen. The current and long standing relationship between universities and their athletic department is comfortable for both parties and it works for everyone, it isn't changing.

As for Emmert, he has been much more transparent and open to reform than any of his predecessors. Some of the reforms thrown around are quite radical as well like athlete stipends (the only way a college athlete will ever be paid) and this stupid ass proposed cbb transfer rule.

I do realize that Title IX is not simply about equal numbers of sports and I cannot speak to legal precedent in this area so I'll take your word on that one.

What I was alluding to with the amateurism topic was that high school athletes should have a viable option to play professionally in this country whenever they have the talent to sell their labor. To be quite honest, I don't think universities and colleges should be allowed to give athletic scholarships at all. It undermines the academic mission of the institution. Do I think any of this will happen? Not in a million years, because as you say the parties are both comfortable with the arrangement.

But, could there be a way to retain the big time college football and men's hoops programs, while also paying players, and not giving them athletic scholarships? At a few institutions, athletic departments can pay for themselves, but in nearly every other case they cannot. Maybe if football and men's hoops just paid for themselves and organized outside of the constraints of amateur athletics? I dunno, but I think you may be surprised to find out that these teams would remain popular without having to become the Tuscaloosa Titans. I loved having Mike Beasley play for the Cats, but any somewhat objective view on the situation would conclude that considering him a "student" is a perversion

The other line of thinking that doesn't get into paying players or dealing with the amateurism tag, would be to hold coaches accountable for something other than just wins and losses. Put coaches through the same tenure review process that all full time college faculty go through. Make them accountable by other measures as well. Find better ways to limit the time they devote to the sport and actually police this. In other words, all of these informal requirements of players need to go if they are also pursuing a college degree. Otherwise, if these are only going to be prepping grounds for professional athletes they should be organized as such. Its a tough situation to deal with fairly considering there are many more athletes who get athletic scholarships and graduate college with zero chance at professional sports than those that go on to make millions. So, for them its worked, but why should limited scholarship monies go to athletic prowess? Especially considering the state of higher education funding across most of this country. We're talking federal and state funding of higher education having been considerably cut over the past 2 decades. Just speaking from experience, at a big state school I formerly worked for in the mid-90s about half of the budget came from the feds and state, today that figure is about 17%. These cuts weren't just about dealing with institutional inefficiencies (of which there are many), they were severe enough to really fundamentally change the way business gets done (meaning larger and larger classrooms, less tenured faculty, more part time teachers).

Anyways, I sense things coming to a head more so than they have in my life, its just interesting to discuss potential change but I sense that you think those changes will be rather minor - such as small stipends for players.


Took one look at this and got a headache. Did not read one word.

Offline Havs

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24023 on: February 01, 2013, 10:25:04 PM »
You guys need to have a Cigar & Band'Pak when this thread reaches 1000 pages. Just a suggestion.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #24024 on: February 02, 2013, 01:46:13 PM »
Took one look at this and got a headache. Did not read one word.

No joke, that's a lot of words advocating something that's never going to happen. Quick, someone type 500 words about Kansas legalizing cocaine and prostitution.