Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 5025588 times)

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23425 on: December 05, 2012, 12:24:03 PM »
Sure you could but like I said in the other post, you run the risk of many of the schools having to incur additional costs which could put some of your sports in peril and may lead to Title IX issues.  Running national tournaments is a significant cost but it is far from the only cost of doing business.  These conferences would have to start another organization, they can't just be a loose collection of conferences, that would fall apart after two years.  Could you imagine the Big 10 and the SEC running their own shows, it would be funny to watch, but not funny for college athletics.  It seems much more lucrative and much less risky to just break away in football only.

Here check out this article.  The fourth bolded point is the one that I see as problematic for a breakaway organization, especially one that would have to have the SEC, Pac 12, and Big 10 see eye to eye on.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Answers/Nine+points+to+consider_one

Where Does the Money Go?
Points to consider

The NCAA generates revenue from sources other than media agreements

In most years, rights fees have accounted for about 85 percent of all NCAA revenue. In 2009-10, the media agreements constituted 86 percent of NCAA revenue. Most of the remaining 14 percent in 2009-10 came from championships (mostly ticket sales).

Most NCAA revenue is distributed directly to the Division I membership

Each year, about 60 percent of NCAA revenue (that’s all revenue, not just money from rights agreement) is distributed to Division I members. For 2009-10, the total was a little more than $433 million. Some of that distribution is earmarked for particular uses, such as funds that directly support academics or those that meet special student-athlete needs away from the field of play.

Most of the money, however, is distributed through funds that recognize long-term competitive success and that support the Division I tenets of athletically related financial aid and broad sports sponsorship. Those funds (the Basketball, Grants-in-Aid and Sports Sponsorship Funds) are paid to conference offices and divided among conference institutions according to their own agreements. At a typical Division I Football Bowl Subdivision institution, the most common uses of the money would be for salaries, financial aid for student-athletes, facility maintenance and rental, and travel.

40 percent of NCAA expenditures sustain championships, programs and services

West Virginia men’s basketball coach Bob Huggins indirectly highlighted these expenditures in February when he claimed that the NCAA annually “steals” more than $200 million from Association resources (he also zinged conference offices for how they use their 60 percent distribution).

Huggins’ choice of words may have been overheated, but his observations point to philosophical differences within the membership. Should the institutions that are perceived to generate the money be permitted to keep more of it? Also, what level of NCAA programming is appropriate?

The questions seem complicated, but the answers are simple: The NCAA Executive Committee determines the allocation of the money, and it authorizes all Association-wide programming. Presidential leaders in Divisions I, II and III approve division-specific expenditures.

The NCAA has operated for decades with the understanding that about 40 percent of its resources support Association championships, programs and services. The only constitutional requirement is that 7.55 percent of NCAA revenue is to fund Divisions II (4.37 percent) and III (3.18 percent) championships and programs.

96 percent of NCAA revenue benefits the membership through distributions or services

The 96 percent figure includes:

• Division I distributions (60 percent)

• Championships (13 percent)

• Programs and national office services (19 percent)

• Other services (such as the Eligibility Center) (4 percent)

To be clear, the 96 percent includes much of the national office’s expenses (including salaries), which are housed in programmatic budgets. The 4 percent that remains is for central services, such as building operations and salaries not related to particular programs.

NCAA revenue and expenses are a relatively small part of the overall intercollegiate athletics fiscal structure

The NCAA research staff estimates that college athletics programs collectively spend about $10.5 billion annually. NCAA total expenses for 2009-10 were $707.2 million.

(Overall annual revenue for college athletics programs was estimated for 2008-09 at about $10.6 billion. That includes about $5.6 billion in generated revenues, which is income from ticket sales, radio and television receipts, alumni contributions, guarantees, royalties and NCAA distributions. The remainder of the revenue is considered allocated revenue, which comes from student fees directly allocated to athletics, direct and indirect institutional support, and direct government support.)

NCAA money makes up a relatively small portion of Division I institutional budgets

The largest NCAA distribution ($36.7million) for 2009-10 went to the Big Ten Conference, based on its historically strong performance in the Division I Men’s Basketball Championship, its commitment to athletically related financial aid and its broad sports sponsorship. However, athletics budgets at some Big Ten institutions approach or exceed $100 million, meaning that direct NCAA distributions (an average of about $3.3 million per institution) make up only a small portion of their budgets.

NCAA funding indirectly supports conferences and institutional programs

Several important NCAA programs provide indirect support for conferences and institutional athletics programs.

One example: Travel and per diem expenses are covered for any team competing in any round of NCAA championship competition. Of course, the overall national championship structure itself ($92 million in 2009-10) is central to the intercollegiate athletics experience.

Another example: The NCAA catastrophic-injury insurance program spreads risk across a national pool, making institutional insurance purchases much more affordable than they would otherwise be. Other national programs, such as NCAA drug testing and rules-compliance services, help ensure fair competition across the nation at no cost to conferences or member institutions.

If you think the UPs and ADs have the urge to break away because of an issue with the NCAA, (I don't, frankly I think they enjoy having someone else handle riflery, swimming & diving, etc) wouldn't it be easier to include the MWC, A-10, Big East, CUSA and have a voting block to make whatever changes they want to make with policy, personnel, or whatever the issue is?

Offline bws

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23426 on: December 05, 2012, 01:49:45 PM »
Interesting tweet i found on WV board

Quote
Tuxedo Yoda ? @ TuxedoYoda
(part 1) Got interesting info, after taking Maryland/Rutg, big 10 gave ND an ultimatum. Come soon or we take 2 more & door closes forever.....

Tuxedo Yoda ? @ TuxedoYoda
(part 2) .....ND asked for a little time. Is thinking it over. Even if ND goes big 10, they will still take 1 more ACC school. We'll know soon.

Would make sense to make that ultimatum to Notre Dame. However ND just made the National Title as an independent and has some leverage. If the big 10 was smart they would try to grab FSU (academics aside) and ND and call it a league. That would be a home run and a money generating monster.

Offline AbeFroman

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23427 on: December 05, 2012, 02:55:38 PM »
If the big 10 was smart they'd be on their hands and knees begging for ND. They would finally have a semi-decent football team.

Offline WildcatNkilt

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23428 on: December 05, 2012, 04:26:39 PM »
I would love nothing more than for Big 10 to jump the gun and get to 16 without ND.  ND is going to try and hold out, but it will only last for so long.  The longer they hold out, the better chance the Big 12 makes them part of our expansion.  If ND has to join a conference to be in this 64 team powerhouse, they will still want to keep their own tier 3. 
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Offline MadCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23429 on: December 05, 2012, 04:30:26 PM »
Do you think Texas and ND could co-exist in the same conference?  The planets might fly off their orbits  :ohno:

Offline WildcatNkilt

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23430 on: December 05, 2012, 04:36:35 PM »
This is how I think of ND, Big 10, and Big 12 in School Dance format:

Big 10:  Hi Notre Dame....will you go to the homecoming dance with me?

ND:  thinking Big 10 is nice but fat and doesn't want to date fat people Um...I actually have to go to INSERT FAMILY B-DAY CELEBRATION HERE this weekend.  So I won't be going to the dance.

Big 10:  Oh...ok well have fun with your family.

Days go by....

Big 12:  Hey Notre Dame...you going to the dance with anybody?  If not...wanna go?

ND:  thinking the Big 12 is Rich and Hot...but kind of stupid No I'm not...and yea I'll go with you.  Can we drive your Dad's hot new wheels?

Big 10 walks up during this conversation

Big 10:  ND, I thought you said you were going to your Family thing....

ND:  Obviously lying .... Well that got canceled.  And since I found out you're going now going with G-Tech I decided to just go with the Big 12.
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Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23431 on: December 05, 2012, 04:43:29 PM »
Quote
@Bachscore: ESPN VP Burke Magnus on conference realignment: "Instability is bad for business." #SBJIAF

Offline MadCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23432 on: December 05, 2012, 04:47:34 PM »
Quote
@Bachscore: ESPN VP Burke Magnus on conference realignment: "Instability is bad for business." #SBJIAF

Anything significant about that statement?  My brain just says "durr"

Offline EMAWesome

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23433 on: December 05, 2012, 05:52:25 PM »
Quote
@Bachscore: ESPN VP Burke Magnus on conference realignment: "Instability is bad for business." #SBJIAF

Anything significant about that statement?  My brain just says "durr"

It means ESPN may start getting tough in negotiations on their TV deals saying if your conference changes members during the course of this deal, you are mumped.

Offline "storm"nut

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23434 on: December 06, 2012, 07:07:46 AM »
http://gatortalk1.blogspot.com/2012/12/gatortalk-conference-realignment.html?m=1

I was listening to Frank Frangie's show this afternoon.

Rick Catlett the Executive Director of the Gator Bowl was on for his weekly
segment.

The conversation got around to conference realignment. For months now, he's
been predicting 4-16 team super conferences and that the ACC would likely
not be part of that...

He said look for GaTech and Virginia to join Maryland and bolt for the Big
10, if that happens look for FSU, VaTech, and Clemson to make a run for the
Big 12.

The interesting part was him saying that the SEC is looking at North
Carolina and DUKE for the SEC, obviously for about football, but to create
the total package for TV.

The SEC is miles ahead of everyone in football, but you add Duke and UNC to
the SEC and all of a sudden we are really good in basketball as well.

The final point was about Miami and how no conference really wanted them and
that they would have a really difficult time financially keeping up if 4
super conferences emerge.

He gave no timetable for his predictions, but he said watch for the
GaTech/Virginia announcement, if/when that happens it will all come down
rapidly.

Stephen Manuel
RIP Fatty

Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23435 on: December 06, 2012, 07:36:23 AM »
The notion that there HAS to be 16 teams is kinda a non-starter, given the PAC-12 having almost zero access to 4 more teams, correct?

That's just lazy day dreaming by folks who haven't thought this through, isn't it?

Offline "storm"nut

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23436 on: December 06, 2012, 07:48:21 AM »
The notion that there HAS to be 16 teams is kinda a non-starter, given the PAC-12 having almost zero access to 4 more teams, correct?

That's just lazy day dreaming by folks who haven't thought this through, isn't it?

I could see the PAC 12 going after the leftover Big east/ACC schools even if they are on the east coast. If they get that desperate the could add Boise State and BYU (i'm talking they get really desperate) They could also throw a huge hail marry and pick up Miami who appears to be on the outside looking in right now. Pick up either SMU or Houston and there is there 16. I could see very realistically a push to add a 13th game to the regular season for the schools in conferences with 16 teams to make a pod format work (still hate pods) or to make it so you play everyone in your division, and three out of division games and 3 out of conference games. !6 is the new 12 IMO
RIP Fatty

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23437 on: December 06, 2012, 07:49:55 AM »
. . . or the Big 12 could just cease to exist.   The LHN fails, Texas sues to block GOR, wins and bolts. 



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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23438 on: December 06, 2012, 07:55:47 AM »
. . . or the Big 12 could just cease to exist.   The LHN fails, Texas sues to block GOR, wins and bolts.

Then KU and KSU to the big 10 (top 15 research U in 2025 greater than dime a dozen AAU status)  :ksu:
RIP Fatty

Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23439 on: December 06, 2012, 07:56:40 AM »
 :bill:
. . . or the Big 12 could just cease to exist.   The LHN fails, Texas sues to block GOR, wins and bolts.

The LHN Network is a 10 yr contract, 15?  It could fail, sure.  In 10 years time, anytings possible. 

Offline "storm"nut

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23440 on: December 06, 2012, 08:00:13 AM »
:bill:
. . . or the Big 12 could just cease to exist.   The LHN fails, Texas sues to block GOR, wins and bolts.

The LHN Network is a 10 yr contract, 15?  It could fail, sure.  In 10 years time, anytings possible.

By then we are into a 4 16 senerio and K-State will have a national title under D Sams  :ksu:
RIP Fatty

Offline "storm"nut

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23441 on: December 06, 2012, 08:02:09 AM »
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8718339/16-team-big-ten-michigan-state-spartans-ad-mark-hollis-sees-advantages

EW YORK -- The Big Ten recently announced it would increase to 14 members, so can a 16-team Big Ten be far behind?

"There are some advantages to 16 (teams) compared to 14," Michigan State athletic director Mark Hollis told ESPN on Wednesday. "Fourteen is clumsy. We're not out looking for two teams, but basically we will continue to survey the landscape."

Hollis, attending the IMG Intercollegiate Athletics Forum at the Marriott Marquis, said whether the Big Ten expands is dependent to "what happens in other areas" in the country.

    “

    Sparty There are some advantages to 16 (teams) compared to 14. Fourteen is clumsy. We're not out looking for two teams, but basically we will continue to survey the landscape.
    ” -- Michigan State athletic director
    Mark Hollis

"We don't want to get outflanked," Hollis said.

Last month, Maryland and Rutgers announced they were leaving the ACC and Big East, respectively, for the Big Ten. They are expected to join the Big Ten in 2014.

North Carolina State athletic director Debbie Yow said she wasn't happy that the Terps, a charter member of the ACC, left the league.

"Maryland will be on a plane to play Wisconsin in the middle of the winter," Yow said. "Hope that money is really, really good."

It will be.

The Big Ten, already the richest conference in the nation, will be negotiating a new media rights deal in 2017, and it is expected to pay each school more than $40 million annually.

With 16 teams instead of 14, the Big Ten also would be able to provide more "inventory," or games for the Big Ten Network, increasing its value "as long as it wasn't in the league's current footprint," sources said.

As far as future Big Ten members, speculation has swirled around the league pursuing ACC programs such as Georgia Tech, Virginia and North Carolina.

Hollis would not name candidates, but said if the league expands "what we'll look for is does it fit? What impact does it have on the current membership? If after (an) evaluation, you see any upside, then there is a reason to grow."

"It won't be tomorrow," Hollis added jokingly.

One factor that could impact whether the Big Ten expands in the future, specifically if it targets ACC teams, is whether Maryland will be required to pay the ACC's $52 million exit fee.

The ACC has filed a lawsuit to guarantee the Terps pay the entire amount. Nebraska chancellor Harvey Perlman said Wednesday he doesn't think the exit fee is enforceable.

While Hollis said a 14-team league is "clumsy" as far as football and basketball scheduling, a 16-team league is easier to schedule with two, eight-team divisions.

If the Big Ten did expand, it could set off a domino effect in other leagues. Would the SEC also want to get to 16 teams? Would the Big 12 expand beyond 10? How would the Pac-12 and ACC react? What would all those moves do to the future of the Big East, Mountain West, Conference USA and others?

The possibilities are endless.

"I don't think (conference realignment) is over," Missouri athletic director Mike Alden said. "There's more coming."

College football fans: You've been warned.
RIP Fatty

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23442 on: December 06, 2012, 08:10:23 AM »
The notion that there HAS to be 16 teams is kinda a non-starter, given the PAC-12 having almost zero access to 4 more teams, correct?

That's just lazy day dreaming by folks who haven't thought this through, isn't it?

I could see the PAC 12 going after the leftover Big east/ACC schools even if they are on the east coast. If they get that desperate the could add Boise State and BYU (i'm talking they get really desperate) They could also throw a huge hail marry and pick up Miami who appears to be on the outside looking in right now. Pick up either SMU or Houston and there is there 16. I could see very realistically a push to add a 13th game to the regular season for the schools in conferences with 16 teams to make a pod format work (still hate pods) or to make it so you play everyone in your division, and three out of division games and 3 out of conference games. !6 is the new 12 IMO

Where is this desperation going to come from? The Pac 12 would be miles ahead of both the Big 10 and SEC in terms of quality athletics if they just stayed at 12 and both of those conferences moved to 16. Why would they want to turn their conference into a shitfest just because 2 other conferences are doing it?

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23443 on: December 06, 2012, 08:18:11 AM »
The notion that there HAS to be 16 teams is kinda a non-starter, given the PAC-12 having almost zero access to 4 more teams, correct?

That's just lazy day dreaming by folks who haven't thought this through, isn't it?

I could see the PAC 12 going after the leftover Big east/ACC schools even if they are on the east coast. If they get that desperate the could add Boise State and BYU (i'm talking they get really desperate) They could also throw a huge hail marry and pick up Miami who appears to be on the outside looking in right now. Pick up either SMU or Houston and there is there 16. I could see very realistically a push to add a 13th game to the regular season for the schools in conferences with 16 teams to make a pod format work (still hate pods) or to make it so you play everyone in your division, and three out of division games and 3 out of conference games. !6 is the new 12 IMO

Where is this desperation going to come from? The Pac 12 would be miles ahead of both the Big 10 and SEC in terms of quality athletics if they just stayed at 12 and both of those conferences moved to 16. Why would they want to turn their conference into a shitfest just because 2 other conferences are doing it?

Guess there is nothing to really put them to 16 but if they felt the need, it could be done.
RIP Fatty

Offline WildcatNkilt

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23444 on: December 06, 2012, 08:23:22 AM »
Pac 12 could pick up BYU, Colorado St, Boise St., Air Force or maybe Hawaii?  BYU is really the only qualifying school for their standards.  I have a hard time seeing them reach as far as the Eastern Time Zone.  Pac 12 may be the sticking reason why the Big 12 doesn't go to 16.
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Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23445 on: December 06, 2012, 08:36:25 AM »
Pac 12 could pick up BYU, Colorado St, Boise St., Air Force or maybe Hawaii?  BYU is really the only qualifying school for their standards.  I have a hard time seeing them reach as far as the Eastern Time Zone.  Pac 12 may be the sticking reason why the Big 12 doesn't go to 16.

Or at least the "excuse" in the near term for the Big 12 to feel comfortable with less.

I cannot fathom a scenario where a conference is "required" to have 16 teams, unless we are talking about four conference colluding and agreeing to that deal together....which has all sorts of crazy implications for teams stuck in the middle of that.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23446 on: December 06, 2012, 09:58:33 AM »
. . . or the Big 12 could just cease to exist.   The LHN fails, Texas sues to block GOR, wins and bolts.

Texas doesn't want the Pac-12, and the Pac-12 does not want to deal with Texas.

The Pac-12 thing was William Powers.  Dodds, their Board, donors, etc. wanted no part of it.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23447 on: December 06, 2012, 10:06:49 AM »
I don’t understand why the 16 team model has to be the model for everyone in every part of the country.  It’s like no one has ever read Moneyball.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23448 on: December 06, 2012, 10:14:15 AM »
I like how the Sparty AD said they were "scouring" for possible additions to the conference. Like, they don't know who's a possibility at this point? Do they not have access to ESPN and a map? The whole thing is just so unbelievably silly.

Offline ArchE_Cat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #23449 on: December 06, 2012, 10:42:10 AM »
I don’t understand why the 16 team model has to be the model for everyone in every part of the country.  It’s like no one has ever read Moneyball.

If we go to four 16 team leagues, wouldn't they eventually reorganize based of regional geography? Then we would be back to where we started but just watered down by division play against weak teams?  :dunno: