Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 5043734 times)

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Offline kim carnes

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21675 on: September 06, 2012, 09:18:39 PM »
I agree it sucks we've still behind the PAC, but I don't know why you are panicking now, it's always been ~1.3B for T1 and ~1.2B for T2. If anything, all the delays from Bowlsby working deals between ABC/ESPN/Fox grew the deal an extra $100MM for the life of the contract, or ~$750k per team per year.

No.  The estimates were much higher than that.

Offline wetwillie

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21676 on: September 06, 2012, 09:31:21 PM »
 Add louisville, that should net all of us more money :lol:
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Offline Katpappy

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21677 on: September 06, 2012, 09:33:50 PM »
We're not making more than the pac-12?  CU wins again.
Please read.

The floor is 30 million now. The new playoff money has to be figured out still but that's going to be huge.

Fb/bb tier one and two 20 million
Tier 3...3-5 million
Champions bowl 4 million
Other Big 12 bowls 2-3 million
Whatever we get from new playoff...???

 :emawkid:
and...
So we are actually way ahead of the Big 10 with all our other crap that they don't get, right?  Like, does this include our old new fox deal?  and obviously not Tier 3.  How rich are we?  I want a chart showing how far above everyone we currently are for face rubbing in.

I found it.

Big 12


Other Conferences

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Offline kim carnes

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21678 on: September 06, 2012, 09:38:59 PM »
katdaddy, shutup

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21679 on: September 06, 2012, 09:41:24 PM »
katdaddy, shutup
Look Kimmy, we're gona be making more rough ridin' money than we could even dream about a couple years ago.  Let's not get too greedy.  :kstategrad:
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Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21680 on: September 06, 2012, 09:43:59 PM »
I agree it sucks we've still behind the PAC, but I don't know why you are panicking now, it's always been ~1.3B for T1 and ~1.2B for T2. If anything, all the delays from Bowlsby working deals between ABC/ESPN/Fox grew the deal an extra $100MM for the life of the contract, or ~$750k per team per year.

No.  The estimates were much higher than that.

Here is a story from April 2011 stating the T2 with Fox Sports Media was going to be $90MM per year for 13 years (~$1.2B for contract):
http://lubbockonline.com/filed-online/2011-04-13/big-12-strikes-landmark-lucrative-tv-contract-fox#.UElbNI1mTEY

Here is a story from the KC Business Journal from March 2012, about when the $1.3B for T1 rights with ABC/ESPN started going around (it also mentions this, coupled with the Fox deal make the 13-year T1 & T2 worth ~ $2.5B):
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2012/03/14/report-espn-big-12-near-big-tv.html

Here are a couple of stories from May 2012 when another source reviled that the frameworks for both deals were in place for the two 13-year contracts for a total of $2.6B:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/18984821

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/05/08/fsu-and-the-big-xii/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-08/big-12-agrees-to-2-6-billion-media-contract-cbssports-says.html

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/07/things-looking-up-for-big-12-as-presidents-reportedly-agree-to-tv-deal/

http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012/05/08/big-12-football-grant-of-rights-key-to-television-contract/
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Offline CyberToothCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21681 on: September 06, 2012, 09:51:02 PM »
katdaddy, shutup
Look Kimmy, we're gona be making more rough ridin' money than we could even dream about a couple years ago.  Let's not get too greedy.  :kstategrad:

I agree about not getting greedy.  I'm happy as can be that K-State is alive and kicking, much less rolling in the dough.  In the dark days of 2010 when it looked like we were head to the MWC, i really believed K-State was going to become a mid-major (with all of the benefits that implies).  Fast forward a little over two years and we're in a stable conference that makes really good money (4th best once all of the contracts are done), and it couldn't have turned out better for us.

But... if the Big 12 falls too far behind the big 10/SEC/PAC, how long until UT and OU start getting wandering eyes again?  K-State is safe as long as the Big 12 includes UT and OU.  In order to keep them in this conference, we need to keep them happy.  In order to keep them happy, they need to be paid like one of the big dogs in the country.  This new contract might be enough to barely put them at that level.

That's my fear.  Not that K-State is getting greedy, but that Texas and OU will get greedy (again).  We've been in a game of Russian Roulette for the past two years.  Both times when the trigger was pulled, nothing really happenend.  I DO NOT WANT to see that trigger get pulled again.  How many times can we keep lucking out?  I don't know the answer and I hope to never find out.  I think this TV contract is enough to keep us afloat, but I'm not 100% on that.

Offline ben ji

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21682 on: September 06, 2012, 09:56:22 PM »
katdaddy, shutup
Look Kimmy, we're gona be making more rough ridin' money than we could even dream about a couple years ago.  Let's not get too greedy.  :kstategrad:

I agree about not getting greedy.  I'm happy as can be that K-State is alive and kicking, much less rolling in the dough.  In the dark days of 2010 when it looked like we were head to the MWC, i really believed K-State was going to become a mid-major (with all of the benefits that implies).  Fast forward a little over two years and we're in a stable conference that makes really good money (4th best once all of the contracts are done), and it couldn't have turned out better for us.

But... if the Big 12 falls too far behind the big 10/SEC/PAC, how long until UT and OU start getting wandering eyes again?  K-State is safe as long as the Big 12 includes UT and OU.  In order to keep them in this conference, we need to keep them happy.  In order to keep them happy, they need to be paid like one of the big dogs in the country.  This new contract might be enough to barely put them at that level.

That's my fear.  Not that K-State is getting greedy, but that Texas and OU will get greedy (again).  We've been in a game of Russian Roulette for the past two years.  Both times when the trigger was pulled, nothing really happenend.  I DO NOT WANT to see that trigger get pulled again.  How many times can we keep lucking out?  I don't know the answer and I hope to never find out.  I think this TV contract is enough to keep us afloat, but I'm not 100% on that.

We are good for the next 13 with the GOR.

You point out that TX and OU may get greedy but you fail to realize that FSU/Clem/VT are all getting greedy as crap now. If Texas is pissed about making 40+ million a year(20big12, 15lhn, bowl/champions etc) what do you think is going through FSU's mind when they are making 20 million(including bowl money)?

Offline DQ12

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21683 on: September 06, 2012, 10:23:45 PM »
I wish we made more money, but I'm not devastated that we aren't. 

We're in okay shape. 

And that's okay by me.


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21684 on: September 06, 2012, 11:34:13 PM »
Guys, this just sucks. We could probably be making $30 million per school if we could just kick out ISU.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21685 on: September 06, 2012, 11:37:10 PM »
She we be looking at jumping ship?

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21686 on: September 06, 2012, 11:39:58 PM »
She we be looking at jumping ship?

We should probably let the SEC know that if they are going to 16, we are available. It will suck taking the huge blow to our strength of schedule that would go along with it, but it might be necessary if we expect to remain a power in the college football world.

Offline star seed 7

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21687 on: September 07, 2012, 12:03:28 AM »
think how much money we could have if ku shut down the football program.   :pray:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21688 on: September 07, 2012, 12:47:00 AM »
All of this information has been out there for nearly two months.  None of this is a surprise.

The whole concept of these "all-in" deals is that the big-time schools sacrifice some of their potential earnings for completely equal revenue sharing with the smaller-market schools.  The Pac-12, Big Ten, and ACC all throw their money into one big pot and cut everyone the same check.  USC gets as much as WSU, Michigan gets the same amount as Northwestern, and FSU gets the same check Wake Forest does. etc.  There are no other television or digital rights to monetize.  They are all in.  The SEC may end up going that route, but the details of Project SEC are still kind of under wraps.

The Big 12 decided to go a different route.  We get paid nearly the same amount for our core rights (Tier 1 & 2) that the Pac-12 does ($20.8 million vs. $20 million).  However, we don't throw our Tier 3 into a pot like they do, nor do we have a CCG to monetize.  Texas gets $15 million for the LHN on top of the "core" rights.  So, their total payout will be $35 million.  OU, depending on how much they get for their Tier 3 (let's assume it's around $8-10 million), get as much, or more, than Pac-12 schools.  Hell, KU, who commands somewhere between $7-9 million for their Tier 3 rights (due to all of those locally broadcasted non-con basketball games on JTV), will pull in roughly the same revenue as USC, UCLA, and Oregon.  KSU, who probably commands somewhere in the $3-5 million range for K-StateHD.tv and our Tier 3 basketball games (I'm just guessing) will make as much as most Big Ten teams and nearly $7-9 million more, annually, than teams like Florida State, North Carolina, Virgina Tech, and Duke.

See, the key here is that the schools that we anchor our conference around have an extremely competitive core compensation package and a flexible Tier 3 structure that allow them to make tremendous sums of money.  They don't have to sacrifice value for the sake of solidarity.  We threw all of that crap out the door two years ago.  That's why Florida State is on the table; presuming we can get another team to come with them that can keep us at our $20 million value for Tier 1/2, they can monetize their Tier 3 rights and make roughly $10 million more annually than they are now, and that's not including Champions Bowl revenue, CCG revenue, Playoff revenue, bowl revenues (that will be higher than the ACC), etc.

The Big 12's TV deal is excellent, and the flexible Tier 3 structure puts attractive schools (even Notre Dame in doomsday scenarios) into play because we don't force big-time programs to revenue share with schools that can't command that type of value on the open market.

So, in other words, everyone calm the eff down.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21689 on: September 07, 2012, 05:52:42 AM »
I believe K-State is projecting $3.8 million from Tier III media this Fiscal Year.

I'd guessestimate that K-State could garner $4.5 to $5 million on Tier III on the next contract go around, maybe a little more.  It would probably depend on whether the Big 12 expands and who the expansion teams are.




Offline bws

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21690 on: September 07, 2012, 08:58:18 AM »
Press Release and details on the Big 12 TV deal..

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=205680799&DB_OEM_ID=10410.

 
Quote
AGREEMENT FACTS
Terms    ?  13-year agreement.
?  2012-13 athletic season through 2024-25.
 
Finances    ?  Combined with current revenue streams the Conference will provide annual average per institution television revenue at the highest level of college athletics.
?  Coupled with FOX agreement signed in April 2011, provides a significant increase in the Conference's television rights.
 
Platforms    ?  Big 12 events to be carried on various ESPN and FOX platforms including ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPN3, FOX, FX, FSN, Fox College Sports (FCS), and FOX Sports Digital Platforms.
 
Programming    ?  No warehousing of rights.
?  Institutions have option to retain rights to one home football game and a minimum of four men's basketball games per season for distribution via permitted member institution outlets and third-party licenses including the FSN Regional Networks and FOX College Sports.
?  No exclusive telecast windows, except for ESPN men's basketball "Big Monday" and "Saturday College GameDay" telecasts featuring Big 12 teams.
 
Annual Football Coverage    ?  Every Big 12 controlled football game.
?  ABC/ESPN: 19 games per year thru 2015, increasing to 23 games annually in 2016 (minimum 13-15 full national exposures via ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU or in combination with reverse mirror); maximum four-five games on ESPNU.
?  FOX: Approximately 38 games with minimum of six contests annually on FOX broadcast and six games on a national cable outlet.
?  Member Retained Game: One member-retained game, which must be carried on a FOX platform if returned.
?  Television partners have a maximum four six-day picks between them per season.
?  Minimum four Thursday games each season (including Labor Day weekend and Thanksgiving Day); and one Labor Day Sunday appearance.
?  Maximum of four games scheduled for 8:15 p.m. local time starts per season with the following restrictions: no program required to play more than twice; host more than once; play consecutive weekends; and six-day pick only with Conference consent.
 
Annual Men's Basketball Coverage    ?  ESPN to televise 100-105 games per season, with 43 games on ESPN or ESPN2 (or sublicense to ABC, CBS, FOX) including a minimum of 30 intra-conference games.
?  Up to 40 games on ESPNU.
?  Option to sublicense up to 20 games to another national cable outlet.
?  Up to six games per season for live origination on ESPN3.
?  Remaining games on broadcast syndication with Big 12 Network branding.
?  Minimum four games each season retained for individual permitted member institution outlets.
?  A collective minimum of 50 games per season designated for permitted member institution outlets and third-party licensees (any games returned to ESPN are subtracted from the 50-game threshold).
 
Exposure    ?  FOX Sports Media Group platforms to carry a minimum of 40 non-football events annually
?  Minimum of 31 women's basketball games per season on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU or FSMG platforms.
?  ESPN networks retain option for up to 25 additional women's basketball and/or other sports contests per season.
?  Championship events, except men's basketball, on FSMG platforms.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21691 on: September 07, 2012, 09:07:16 AM »
Quote
Combined with current revenue streams the Conference will provide annual average per institution television revenue at the highest level of college athletics.


 :kstategrad:

Offline WildcatNkilt

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21692 on: September 07, 2012, 09:09:49 AM »
$20 million in hayseed Manhattan, KS gets you a lot more than $21 million in Southern Cal or any other place west of Denver.  Stop being Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) guys.
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Offline steve dave

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21693 on: September 07, 2012, 09:10:30 AM »
$20 million in hayseed Manhattan, KS gets you a lot more than $21 million in Southern Cal or any other place west of Denver.  Stop being Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) guys.

I love mocking dumbshits that make this argument about coaching salaries.

Offline WildcatNkilt

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21694 on: September 07, 2012, 09:16:34 AM »
$20 million in hayseed Manhattan, KS gets you a lot more than $21 million in Southern Cal or any other place west of Denver.  Stop being Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) guys.

I love mocking dumbshits that make this argument about coaching salaries.

Coaching salaries need to be competitive....sure.  I'm talking about facilities and pay grades for staff (not coaching staff).  A $70k salary in hayseed Kansas needs to be $100k or more in places like DC, Chicago, L.A., Denver, etc.   

Your really think the BPF cost K-State $20 mill?  Haha no.  Maybe $15 mill and they pocketed the rest to use on West Stadium Expansion.

UCLA has to put millions into their facilities just to make them quake proof.
Kansas City Blue Barbecue fan.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21695 on: September 07, 2012, 09:38:19 AM »
I'm sure Deloss is like "Oh, hey guys, with the COLA we're making more than those assholes in pullman.  Hook'em"

Offline MadCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21696 on: September 07, 2012, 09:40:49 AM »
Quote
Financial terms were not disclosed.

Hmmm.....just wondering how piddly the payoff will be by the last year of the contract.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21697 on: September 07, 2012, 10:10:13 AM »
It is completely true that you can build more crap for the same cost in Manhattan vs. Just about anywhere

But that's not an excuse for screwing up a tv deal.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21698 on: September 07, 2012, 10:31:34 AM »
Quote
Financial terms were not disclosed.

Hmmm.....just wondering how piddly the payoff will be by the last year of the contract.

yeah, that makes me think it's just for show

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #21699 on: September 07, 2012, 11:08:46 AM »
What in the world are you guys talking about?  Good lawd.