Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....

[chum1]

(0.5)boulder < slc < (0.75)boulder

(that's really, really good, people)

[michigancat]

Well, you're really oversimplifying the situation. The likelihood of ND joining the conference AND shifting KSU to a division away from both KU and MU seems ridiculously low. The likelihood of KSU not playing either at all is even lower. So, I guess if we gave up all 4 games against KU and MU, the payout would have to be about $5 million more per year to make it worth it. (just throwing out numbers - it's a ridiculous situation we're discussing).

the likelihood of nd joining is ridiculously low, but if they joined, the likelihood of kstate to south is pretty high.

But going south without BOTH KU and MU? although I guess it matters who else gets added. Your oddball scenarios are not enough to convince me that adding ND to the conference would be a negative.

[sys]

But going south without BOTH KU and MU? although I guess it matters who else gets added. Your oddball scenarios are not enough to convince me that adding ND to the conference would be a negative.

you'd only need to move 1 team south, no matter if just a&m leaves, or if a&m & mu leave.  it'd either be kstate or isu.

[pissclams]

The last thing I'll say about Notre Dame (unless there's compelling evidence that we should talk about them more in depth), is that I'm sure the conversations that take place won't start with Beebe. They'll start in a conversation between Dodds and Swarbick.

There are maybe three or four schools in this country that demand the kind of attention that Texas and Notre Dame do, so they understand each other.  Dodds will ultimately make the pitch as to why the Big 12 fits them better than any other conference (which it does) due to the autonomy and flexibility we're willing to give our elite members.

People can't make the assumption that we'll just invite Notre Dame and that will be that.  We would bend over backwards for ND.  You can almost guarantee that we'd allow them to continue broadcasting their home games on NBC in the meantime.  Their deal with NBC expires in 2015, which is when our first tier rights go up for bid.  Then, at that point, can you imagine the kind of money we'd make if ND gives up their deal with NBC and we just put them in our bid?  I mean, if we added BYU and some other school, like Air Force, and then got a championship game in there again that could potentially pit ND and UT or OU at the end of every season...Holy God.  The money would be absurd.

One thing people don't talk about is the cost of ND being an independent: http://clashmoremike.com/2009/07/notre-dame-and-the-bcs-the-notre-dame-rule/#.  They leave a lot of money on the table every year, and their current arrangement is not as preferential or profitable as people think it is in terms of bowl selection and revenue.  Joining a conference like the Big 12, that would allow them to create their own network and own their own media rights, while splitting their expenses with the conference as a whole, would be a financial windfall for them.  It would be insane how good this would make their books look.

A lot of people seem to think that the smartest move for ND is to go to the Big Ten, but the fact of the matter is that there, it would be harder to push around a lot of the schools to get the kind of preferential treatment that they desire.  But in the Big 12, if you are important enough, we'll let you get away with murder.  And their strongest ally would be Texas, and if those two decided to bookend this conference, none of us would complain about anything they did because we'd all be spending way too much time talking about all of the new facility improvements and asinine salaries we'd be paying our coaching staffs because that arrangement would literally rain money on all of us.

Notre Dame may not come here or listen, but they'd be smart to take the call and at least hear what Dodds has to say.

notre dame isn't as concerned about money as we are.  there are other things that motivate them as much as money motivates us. 

[michigancat]

But going south without BOTH KU and MU? although I guess it matters who else gets added. Your oddball scenarios are not enough to convince me that adding ND to the conference would be a negative.

you'd only need to move 1 team south, no matter if just a&m leaves, or if a&m & mu leave.  it'd either be kstate or isu.

Again, depends on the schools added. East/West divisions or Legends/Leaders-esque divisions could also be formed.

[0.42]

But going south without BOTH KU and MU? although I guess it matters who else gets added. Your oddball scenarios are not enough to convince me that adding ND to the conference would be a negative.

you'd only need to move 1 team south, no matter if just a&m leaves, or if a&m & mu leave.  it'd either be kstate or isu.

Again, depends on the schools added. East/West divisions or Legends/Leaders-esque divisions could also be formed.

"Five Stars" and "Five Hearts" divisions imo

[MadCat]

"Saints" and "Sinners"

[chum1]

things get tricky when you try to calculate slc+co springs on the boulder scale.

[sys]

Again, depends on the schools added. East/West divisions or Legends/Leaders-esque divisions could also be formed.

you could call them whatever you like, but it'd still be ut/ou/baylor/tech/osu/isu or ksu vs nd/ku/isu or ksu/+3 of new and mu

[ksucrcoop]

ND will NEVER play a game in BSFS. Fact.

the question is about the possibility of them joining the conference, dumbass.  you dumbasses don't seem to be willing to do anything it takes to get them.  why don't you go and get all pissy about unequal revenue sharing while you're at it.

Agreed. ND also never plays Navy in Annapolis. WGAF? We'll play them in KC.

Never said they wouldn't join the Big 12, but I am saying they will never play away games with any of the current former North teams. They don't play non-rivalry games in geographic locations close to them and they don't play them against schools who are not nationally recognized powerhouses or who have low academic standards/graduation rates (aka. KSU, KU, MU, ISU).

ND has a $5 billion+ endowment and the second highest $/student in all bcs football...only Stanford compares. They're $/student is 3x the likes of UT and Umich and literally like 40x KSU. Even bringing $ into the conversation is stupid. The only feasible argument I could see is convincing them to joint he Big 12 is because the super conferences happen, the Big East will be no more and they need a conference for BBall and all the NCAA "sports". I don't see them doing this until after the Big East goes down the drain and crap has hit the fan. Even if they do "join", they would likely only play 3, maybe 4 games against Big XII teams (OU, UT, BU (academics), and maybe another team) during the season, like they have with the Big East now.

..but maybe I'm wrong about being right.

Ever wonder what goes through a ND fan's head when they "select" opponents to play? Here is one person's take on it:
http://onefootdown.fantake.com/2011/04/13/scheduling-notre-dame-who-the-irish-play/
http://onefootdown.fantake.com/2011/04/19/scheduling-notre-dame-part-2-factors-in-scheduling-the-irish/

[chum1]

it's like the old saying goes:  the last thing rich people care about is getting richer. 

[michigancat]

Again, depends on the schools added. East/West divisions or Legends/Leaders-esque divisions could also be formed.

you could call them whatever you like, but it'd still be ut/ou/baylor/tech/osu/isu or ksu vs nd/ku/isu or ksu/+3 of new and mu

Legends and leaders (the big 10 divisions) have nothing to do with geography. The divisions could be anything.

[sys]

Legends and leaders (the big 10 divisions) have nothing to do with geography. The divisions could be anything.

those divisions aren't based on geography.  they're the teams texas wants to play + kstate and the teams nd wants to play plus the rest of the big 12 north.  the only part based on geography was moving kstate to the south instead of isu.

[Panjandrum]

Gave me hope as well.  Pan gets  for always talking me off the ledge.

he can talk himself into anything

I am easily convinced.

Especially when I'm trying to convince myself.

[Panjandrum]

notre dame isn't as concerned about money as we are.  there are other things that motivate them as much as money motivates us. 

True, but at some point, they will join a conference.  It is inevitable.

Why not join one that would allow you essentially run the joint as soon as you get there?

[OB_Won]

True, but at some point, they will join a conference.  It is inevitable.

Why not join one that would allow you essentially run the joint as soon as you get there?

What does Texas gain by inviting ND to the party? They're already rich, and enjoy monumental advantages over every other team in the conference.  If they truly run things already, why invite somebody that has just as much, or probably more power?  Please don't be surprised if we see 1-3 marginal+ teams get invites.  I'm guessing more TTech/KSU/OSU type schools.  Competitive, but no real long-term threat.  BYU-ish.

[Panjandrum]

What does Texas gain by inviting ND to the party?

Bragging rights.

[SkinnyBenny]

I'm just waiting for cripps to weigh in on this and tell us what he's hearing.   

[ew2x4]

True, but at some point, they will join a conference.  It is inevitable.

Why not join one that would allow you essentially run the joint as soon as you get there?

What does Texas gain by inviting ND to the party? They're already rich, and enjoy monumental advantages over every other team in the conference.  If they truly run things already, why invite somebody that has just as much, or probably more power?  Please don't be surprised if we see 1-3 marginal+ teams get invites.  I'm guessing more TTech/KSU/OSU type schools.  Competitive, but no real long-term threat.  BYU-ish.

The thing is, ND is no threat. They haven't been for some time. UT would probably wipe the floor with them in every sport. They would probably like beating up a higher profile team.

[sys]

True, but at some point, they will join a conference.  It is inevitable.

there is absolutely nothing inevitable about nd joining a conference.  it's far closer to impossible.

[pissclams]

True, but at some point, they will join a conference.  It is inevitable.

there is absolutely nothing inevitable about nd joining a conference.  it's far closer to impossible.

this is where i am at.  notre dame has the money, what they need to do is protect their brand. 

[Panjandrum]

True, but at some point, they will join a conference.  It is inevitable.

there is absolutely nothing inevitable about nd joining a conference.  it's far closer to impossible.

All it takes is the NCAA and the BCS saying that they have to join, and that's that.

[sys]

True, but at some point, they will join a conference.  It is inevitable.

there is absolutely nothing inevitable about nd joining a conference.  it's far closer to impossible.

All it takes is the NCAA and the BCS saying that they have to join, and that's that.

pffft.  1) would never happen (ncaa has neither the authority nor the interest; bcs isn't stupid) 2) nd getting locked out of some sort of championship cartel, them going undefeated against the same schedule they alway play, and then the media putting the whole system on trial for months on end with und on every front page would be the irish version of nirvana.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Well, you're really oversimplifying the situation. The likelihood of ND joining the conference AND shifting KSU to a division away from both KU and MU seems ridiculously low. The likelihood of KSU not playing either at all is even lower. So, I guess if we gave up all 4 games against KU and MU, the payout would have to be about $5 million more per year to make it worth it. (just throwing out numbers - it's a ridiculous situation we're discussing).

the likelihood of nd joining is ridiculously low, but if they joined, the likelihood of kstate to south is pretty high.

fair point about the games, it'd really be losing 2 bball games/ year and who knows how fball would be structured, but would probably lose some games.

You are assuming that we add 3 teams to get to 12, right? Why wouldn't we just put BYU in the south and put ND plus whatever other team they want into the north? We could leave everyone else as is.

[sys]

You are assuming that we add 3 teams to get to 12, right? Why wouldn't we just put BYU in the south and put ND plus whatever other team they want into the north? We could leave everyone else as is.

because nd would want to play byu over any of the existing north teams.  they have all of the bargaining leverage, so they'd get it.