Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....

[illBisonYourdele]

I regularly cycle thru 4 Oklahoma sports radio shows between OKC and Tulsa.  2 of those regularly have Dusty Dvorcheck on, who has a 5th show I can't get, which is the most popular mid-day show in OKC.  Every one of them is calling for OU to leave as soon as possible, but most know OU has to wait until the end of the GOR.  Every one is telling all their listeners the Big12 is dying and OU is working on leaving.  Every call is either an OU fan trying figure out how to get out or and OSU trying to rationalize that both OU and OSU should go SEC together.

OU fans and OU media have gone full Aggie.  I don't think our fans living outside Oklahoma realize how big the push is getting in Oklahoma.  You guys can call Boren stupid all you want, and he's a major reason this conference went to crap, but he's quickly becoming the last person in the state that wants OU in the Big12.  At some point they're going to get tired listening to their fans bitching and move.

That's Oklahoma still reeling from the KD saga. OKC must extend Westbrook for the stability of this conference.

In all seriousness, talk radio is the dipshit corral. And if you listen to Oklahoma sports talk radio, you are well aware of the caliber of people responsible for content.

I fully agree with the dipshit corral reference.  One of the biggest voices has become Dusty Dvoracek, a guy who beat someone so bad that his last name became a verb, as in to "Dvoracek" someone.  What I'm saying is the people are buying into it.  They sound a lot like Aggie fans just before they moved.  You can call the people/groundswell stupid all you want, but that doesn't make it any weaker.  At some point soon 75 year old Boren is going to retire and the easiest thing a new UP can do to win over the crowd is give them what they want. 

Interestingly enough, earlier in the week ATL sports talk radio dedicated about 15 minutes to the Houston Cougars chances at making the CFP and couldn't remember who their first opponent was.

Oklahoma may as well be Mexico to SEC country. I would hope conferences and networks have had academic departments working to confirm this as well.

[MakeItRain]

I believe the UH, BYU, Memphis, Cincy stuff because that is what we deserve,

No other P5 school will touch this mess.  They'd be crazy to do so.

I could see Texas using "getting UH in" as a reason to be "allowed" to "do what they want" eventually, as it relates to Texas.  OU and OSU should join the SEC.  The UT-less and OU-less big 12 won't be able to negotiate crap in a new deal.

If the SEC didn't want Florida State and Clemson what in the world makes you think they'd want OSU?

The only possibility of KSU being in a major conference in the future is if the PAC makes a push for KU and doesn't want any of the religious schools (ie. Baylor, TCU, BYU). If not, then our future rival might just be WSU in some God awful mid major mashup conference.

Hey dummy, no one has or will be kicked out of a major conference. If there's spots for Wake Forest, Rutgers, Baylor, Boston College, and Syracuse K-State will be better than fine.

Do you not consider the former Big East? Because UConn and Cincinnati are both teams who were in a BCS conference, who now, are not in a Power 5 conference. If we go to 4x16 our only shot at being included is if ND still demands to stay an independent and nobody wants private religious schools.

No, UCONN and Cincinnati don't count. They didn't join the Big East until 2004. They were playing big boy football for literally 7 years. They were never in the club.

[MakeItRain]

I believe the UH, BYU, Memphis, Cincy stuff because that is what we deserve,

No other P5 school will touch this mess.  They'd be crazy to do so.

I could see Texas using "getting UH in" as a reason to be "allowed" to "do what they want" eventually, as it relates to Texas.  OU and OSU should join the SEC.  The UT-less and OU-less big 12 won't be able to negotiate crap in a new deal.

If the SEC didn't want Florida State and Clemson what in the world makes you think they'd want OSU?

The only possibility of KSU being in a major conference in the future is if the PAC makes a push for KU and doesn't want any of the religious schools (ie. Baylor, TCU, BYU). If not, then our future rival might just be WSU in some God awful mid major mashup conference.

Hey dummy, no one has or will be kicked out of a major conference. If there's spots for Wake Forest, Rutgers, Baylor, Boston College, and Syracuse K-State will be better than fine.

Your conference falling apart around you and getting kicked out are two different things.  If OU decided to leave and convinces Texas to go with them, no one is going to call the SEC or Pac-12 and say "you have to take KSU now". 

I don't think Texas will ever give up their kingdom, but if they do the Big12 could easily be left with 3 teams, having to rebuild like the Big East did, and would slowly slide out of power conference status as the tv and bowl contracts expire. 

This almost happened in 2011.  OU and Tech thought going to the PAC was a done deal.  OSU knew UT had verbally agreed to go to the PAC, but didn't trust UT enough to know they could still back out.  Bill Self came back to Tulsa for a function and told multiple reporters for a short time he thought KU was going to the Mountain West before the deal for KU, KSU, and Iowa State to the Big East started to get traction.  If Texas doesn't get cold feet about losing their kingdom and back out of the PAC deal, we were out.  No one was going to force the SEC or BigTen to take us.

The fact the ACC schools actually wanted to build an east coast conference and stay together, even if it means UNC and UVA make a less than schools in the SEC and BigTen is in no way an indication that if the Big12 falls apart someone is going to force another conference to take us.

However, I don't think we'd fall to the G5 level either.  I think the Big12 will last until the playoff expands to 8 and we'd form some in between 12 team conference that gets its champ in 80-90% of the time and a mid-level tv deal.  I also agree, if it falls apart, schools like OSU could be left with us.  As long as we have access to the playoff, I'm good.  We've always had less money.  I'd be much more concerned if the scholarship limits went back up again.

There is no precedence of a conference falling apart and a major conference school being left out. What happened to UCONN and Cincinnati doesn't count for reasons already mentioned. If you count those two schools you need to also count UCF, USF, and ECU.

What you alarmists keep discounting is that the rank and file of the power 5 conferences are schools similar to us. The Big East broke up because WVU, Pitt, BC, and Syracuse left. If we aren't safe then about 30 more schools should feel the same way. If college sports went 4x16 at least two conferences would be significantly altered. In that case do you really think the SEC would keep Vanderbilt but say no to all of the ACC schools available? We're not getting kicked out because the dozens of other schools like us aren't getting kicked out either. Sheesh.

[MakeItRain]

I regularly cycle thru 4 Oklahoma sports radio shows between OKC and Tulsa.  2 of those regularly have Dusty Dvorcheck on, who has a 5th show I can't get, which is the most popular mid-day show in OKC.  Every one of them is calling for OU to leave as soon as possible, but most know OU has to wait until the end of the GOR.  Every one is telling all their listeners the Big12 is dying and OU is working on leaving.  Every call is either an OU fan trying figure out how to get out or and OSU trying to rationalize that both OU and OSU should go SEC together.

OU fans and OU media have gone full Aggie.  I don't think our fans living outside Oklahoma realize how big the push is getting in Oklahoma.  You guys can call Boren stupid all you want, and he's a major reason this conference went to crap, but he's quickly becoming the last person in the state that wants OU in the Big12.  At some point they're going to get tired listening to their fans bitching and move.

So what? The OU BoR told Boren to STFU, I could give two shits about what their fans say. Mizzou fans spent a decade pining for the Big 10, ask them what they think about the Big 10 now. Dumbass K-State fans have convinced themselves that we'll be the first and only school kicked out of major college football, does that make it so?

[TheHamburglar]

I'm not going to quote that because the string would be too long.

I'm not an alarmist saying we're going to 4x16.  The ACC schools think differently.  They aren't kicking anyone out because they like playing old rivals, not just chasing a fake "we make the most money" tile like everyone else.  I don't see how UNC wanting to play/prop-up Wake Forest the next 20 years has anything to do with us. 

It's not that far fetched that OU's new pres sees the Big10 as a way to get access to research partnerships and reuniting with Nebraska to win alumni over.  At that point I think Texas would still want to keep their kingdom, but who knows what their new president wants.  If they decide to leave to the BigTen with OU, the Big12 is not a power conference.  It gets half the current TV money, loses those 2:30 and primetime ABC and Fox games, and loses its Sugar Bowl tie in.  It's not about 4x16.  It's about at that point the PAC and SEC say "we're good" and realignment shuts down.

You keep saying kicked out, like there's some conspiracy.  It's about UT and OU SWCing the Big12.  The ACC is not going to say "KSU is available, BC and WF GTFO".

[Pete]

MIR is right.  While this is indeed capitalism, and there are winners and losers, it's NOT an efficient system.  We deserve to be a loser, but the system is inefficient so we get a pass and get to hang on.  KSU fans should be very thankful we aren't relying on the market to settle this.

[Panjandrum]

If the Pac 12 looked down on OU's academics to the point where they passed, why on Earth would the Big Ten be interested?

What does the SEC get out of OU and the states minimal cable subscriber base that they aren't getting from Alabama, Florida, Georgia, etc.?

Oklahoma is a power, but they don't really command much.

[chum1]

When the Big East first started breaking up, they weren't one of the top football conferences, but were definitely more of a major football conference than a mid-major. Seems kinda like where the Big 12 is now.

[MakeItRain]

I'm not going to quote that because the string would be too long.

I'm not an alarmist saying we're going to 4x16.  The ACC schools think differently.  They aren't kicking anyone out because they like playing old rivals, not just chasing a fake "we make the most money" tile like everyone else.  I don't see how UNC wanting to play/prop-up Wake Forest the next 20 years has anything to do with us. 

It's not that far fetched that OU's new pres sees the Big10 as a way to get access to research partnerships and reuniting with Nebraska to win alumni over.  At that point I think Texas would still want to keep their kingdom, but who knows what their new president wants.  If they decide to leave to the BigTen with OU, the Big12 is not a power conference.  It gets half the current TV money, loses those 2:30 and primetime ABC and Fox games, and loses its Sugar Bowl tie in.  It's not about 4x16.  It's about at that point the PAC and SEC say "we're good" and realignment shuts down.

You keep saying kicked out, like there's some conspiracy.  It's about UT and OU SWCing the Big12.  The ACC is not going to say "KSU is available, BC and WF GTFO".

The ACC is just as likely to fall apart as the Big 12 is. The Big 12 has one of the most powerful entities in college sports that has a self interest in keeping the conference together, the ACC doesn't have that. If the Big 10 decides to go 16 you have to think three of their top 4 choices would be ND, UNC, and FSU, OU being the other in that four. If the ACC loses any one of those three it would spark chaos. Same thing goes for the PAC. If any one of the California or Arizona schools bolt it's going to be a mass scramble, everyone will have a place to go, networks need inventory.

[MakeItRain]

When the Big East first started breaking up, they weren't one of the top football conferences, but were definitely more of a major football conference than a mid-major. Seems kinda like where the Big 12 is now.

What? The most powerful schools in the Big East were Pitt and WVU and they had smaller revenues than K-State.

[Panjandrum]

When the Big East first started breaking up, they weren't one of the top football conferences, but were definitely more of a major football conference than a mid-major. Seems kinda like where the Big 12 is now.

What? The most powerful schools in the Big East were Pitt and WVU and they had smaller revenues than K-State.

There is no comparison between the Big East at its peak and the Big 12 now. It's not even close.

[chum1]

When the Big East first started breaking up, they weren't one of the top football conferences, but were definitely more of a major football conference than a mid-major. Seems kinda like where the Big 12 is now.

What? The most powerful schools in the Big East were Pitt and WVU and they had smaller revenues than K-State.

Comparison more in kind, less in degree. I don't think we can totally dismiss the possibility that some of the Big 12 teams decide to leave and take the conference's Power 5 status with them on the basis that it's never happened before. It kinda has.

[chum1]

To argue otherwise is to say that the Big 12 is valuable because of Kansas State. No.

[scottwildcat]

I'm not going to quote that because the string would be too long.

I'm not an alarmist saying we're going to 4x16.  The ACC schools think differently.  They aren't kicking anyone out because they like playing old rivals, not just chasing a fake "we make the most money" tile like everyone else.  I don't see how UNC wanting to play/prop-up Wake Forest the next 20 years has anything to do with us. 

It's not that far fetched that OU's new pres sees the Big10 as a way to get access to research partnerships and reuniting with Nebraska to win alumni over.  At that point I think Texas would still want to keep their kingdom, but who knows what their new president wants.  If they decide to leave to the BigTen with OU, the Big12 is not a power conference.  It gets half the current TV money, loses those 2:30 and primetime ABC and Fox games, and loses its Sugar Bowl tie in.  It's not about 4x16.  It's about at that point the PAC and SEC say "we're good" and realignment shuts down.

You keep saying kicked out, like there's some conspiracy.  It's about UT and OU SWCing the Big12.  The ACC is not going to say "KSU is available, BC and WF GTFO".

The ACC is just as likely to fall apart as the Big 12 is. The Big 12 has one of the most powerful entities in college sports that has a self interest in keeping the conference together, the ACC doesn't have that. If the Big 10 decides to go 16 you have to think three of their top 4 choices would be ND, UNC, and FSU, OU being the other in that four. If the ACC loses any one of those three it would spark chaos. Same thing goes for the PAC. If any one of the California or Arizona schools bolt it's going to be a mass scramble, everyone will have a place to go, networks need inventory.

The ACC just signed a new GOR agreement that goes to 2036, that's why nobody is talking about them. While everyone can argue about how likely that is to hold up in court, not one school has tried to challenge it yet.

[MakeItRain]

I'm not going to quote that because the string would be too long.

I'm not an alarmist saying we're going to 4x16.  The ACC schools think differently.  They aren't kicking anyone out because they like playing old rivals, not just chasing a fake "we make the most money" tile like everyone else.  I don't see how UNC wanting to play/prop-up Wake Forest the next 20 years has anything to do with us. 

It's not that far fetched that OU's new pres sees the Big10 as a way to get access to research partnerships and reuniting with Nebraska to win alumni over.  At that point I think Texas would still want to keep their kingdom, but who knows what their new president wants.  If they decide to leave to the BigTen with OU, the Big12 is not a power conference.  It gets half the current TV money, loses those 2:30 and primetime ABC and Fox games, and loses its Sugar Bowl tie in.  It's not about 4x16.  It's about at that point the PAC and SEC say "we're good" and realignment shuts down.

You keep saying kicked out, like there's some conspiracy.  It's about UT and OU SWCing the Big12.  The ACC is not going to say "KSU is available, BC and WF GTFO".

The ACC is just as likely to fall apart as the Big 12 is. The Big 12 has one of the most powerful entities in college sports that has a self interest in keeping the conference together, the ACC doesn't have that. If the Big 10 decides to go 16 you have to think three of their top 4 choices would be ND, UNC, and FSU, OU being the other in that four. If the ACC loses any one of those three it would spark chaos. Same thing goes for the PAC. If any one of the California or Arizona schools bolt it's going to be a mass scramble, everyone will have a place to go, networks need inventory.

The ACC just signed a new GOR agreement that goes to 2036, that's why nobody is talking about them. While everyone can argue about how likely that is to hold up in court, not one school has tried to challenge it yet.

No one is talking about them because the Big 10 or SEC has forced the conversation. I don't believe we're going 4x16 but if it happens the GoR in the Pac 12, Big 12, and ACC are cooked. I also wonder what role the networks have in these GoR agreements as the ACC and SEC are wholly owned by ESPN, and for all intents and purposes the PAC 12 is wholly owned by FOX.

[MakeItRain]

To argue otherwise is to say that the Big 12 is valuable because of Kansas State. No.

No. Your comparison works if UT and OU leaves then leaving a conference that is lead by OSU, KU, KSU, ISU, and Tech then a decade later KU, Tech, and OSU leaves. Even in that case you're left with two schools left out that has been a power conference school for a hundred years. You can play the little ol' K-State card all you want but the bottom line is that we have always been a power conference schools, even when we were nearly dead, none of the Big East schools, including WVU can say the same. The Big East was so fragile that BC leaving effectively killed the conference. Would the Big 12 be fragile if Baylor left?

[MakeItRain]

I mean we have people itt comparing a school who was a 1AA school and another that was in Conference USA to another school who received a major bowl at large bid in recent memory. K-State alone received more at large bids to major bowls than the entire history of the Big East conference. Am I rough ridin' crazy here or what?

[Trim]

If there was a scenario where left-behinds had to scramble to get into a highest-tier conference, I'd think KSU would be a desirable jobber.

[chum1]

To argue otherwise is to say that the Big 12 is valuable because of Kansas State. No.

No. Your comparison works if UT and OU leaves then leaving a conference that is lead by OSU, KU, KSU, ISU, and Tech then a decade later KU, Tech, and OSU leaves. Even in that case you're left with two schools left out that has been a power conference school for a hundred years. You can play the little ol' K-State card all you want but the bottom line is that we have always been a power conference schools, even when we were nearly dead, none of the Big East schools, including WVU can say the same. The Big East was so fragile that BC leaving effectively killed the conference. Would the Big 12 be fragile if Baylor left?

Yes, we're talking about scenarios in which UT, OU, and some other schools leave. It could happen. And if it does, no one will care about things like K-State being a power conference school for a hundred years or how many at large bowl bids it received. It's not a little K-State thing, it's just about not being dismissive of the possibility.

[scottwildcat]

I mean we have people itt comparing a school who was a 1AA school and another that was in Conference USA to another school who received a major bowl at large bid in recent memory. K-State alone received more at large bids to major bowls than the entire history of the Big East conference. Am I rough ridin' crazy here or what?

You are crazy because your reasoning for thinking we are fine is "we have always been in a power conference".

[TheHamburglar]

K-State alone received more at large bids to major bowls than the entire history of the Big East conference.

The other conferences give exactly zero fucks about this.  It has absolute no impact at all if another conference takes us or not if the Big12 continues its down slide to a slow death.

What's matters more is that we got passed over for just as many at large bids that we deserved while playing in a power conference because we are Kansas State

[MakeItRain]

I mean we have people itt comparing a school who was a 1AA school and another that was in Conference USA to another school who received a major bowl at large bid in recent memory. K-State alone received more at large bids to major bowls than the entire history of the Big East conference. Am I rough ridin' crazy here or what?

You are crazy because your reasoning for thinking we are fine is "we have always been in a power conference".

No, stupid. The argument is that there's no precedent, for anyone, for what you deem to be inevitable.

[TheHamburglar]

To argue otherwise is to say that the Big 12 is valuable because of Kansas State. No.

No. Your comparison works if UT and OU leaves then leaving a conference that is lead by OSU, KU, KSU, ISU, and Tech then a decade later KU, Tech, and OSU leaves. Even in that case you're left with two schools left out that has been a power conference school for a hundred years. You can play the little ol' K-State card all you want but the bottom line is that we have always been a power conference schools, even when we were nearly dead, none of the Big East schools, including WVU can say the same. The Big East was so fragile that BC leaving effectively killed the conference. Would the Big 12 be fragile if Baylor left?

The first iteration of this already happened to the Big12.  I'm curious, this scenario plays out, you say 2 are left out.  What do you think happens?  How at that point do we star a power school?

[MakeItRain]

I mean we can keep going round and round on this but the bottom line is that I'm saying that no one will get left out because it has never happened to anyone in the history of college athletics despite there being conference changes every decade. You guys are arguing it will happen because K-State.

[KITNfury]

History may have set no precedent, but I can't imagine any power conference taking us if OU/UT leave. We might stay some patched together version of the Big12 but it certainly won't be considered a power conference.

I'll listen to arguments that OU and Texas won't leave, but if they do I'd like to hear who would actually take us in.