Author Topic: why did kruger leave k-state?  (Read 30668 times)

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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2015, 09:49:35 AM »
Gene Keady endorsement or Tex Winter endorsement?  Who ya got?

I think the Tex endorsement was better at the time and even now would be equally valuable to a Gene Keady endorsement.

Winter endorsement > Gene endorsement.

Hiring a coach based on another coach's endorsement seems dumb.

I remember when Currie was sort of known as the guy instrumental behind the scenes in hiring Pearl at Tennessee.

Offline Ghost of Stan Parrish

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2015, 09:49:53 AM »
i know nothing about ksu hoops history, but was wondering why kruger left ksu for florida back in the early 90s? four straight ncaa tourneys, an elite eight, and LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder was just about to get things rolling in football.

ksu could have been been the dominant program (football & hoops) of the 90s had he stuck around.  :frown:
I imagine that the AD eventually told Lon there wasn't any more money for basketball when he kept bringing in other offers to get a raise. 

Snyder had demanded KSU borrow money to improve the football facilities and I imagine that pissed off Kruger who likely felt he had spent years building up a good basketball program as a player, assistant and head coach and didn't like resources being invested in the second class program.

This is the most likely scenario from those I've heard. Young GOSP was upset about it, and when Steve Miller visited MHS after Lon left, I asked him to schedule Florida in basketball...
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Offline Ghost of Stan Parrish

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2015, 09:55:32 AM »
Altman was the recruiter and young gun when he came in. A "sneaky sexy" hire. He was the one who brought in Mitch Richmond and most of our other good recruits under Kruger -- probably Ski Jones and "Fat" Fred McCoy, etc.

Altman's first recruiting classes were highly ranked, and we were going to run-and-gun. When it turned out his recruits were overrated, we slowed it down and Altman morphed into a different kind of coach entirely. So we eased him out.

Then Asbury came in as maybe the hottest coach in the nation at the time. Strike two.

Nobody was excited about hiring Wooly. I guess we had given up by that time.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 10:00:35 AM by Ghost of Stan Parrish »
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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2015, 09:58:18 AM »
One must not forget that Eddie Sutton begged for the K-State job after Kruger left, and that K-State all but had Tubby Smith signed, but he had a last second change of mind.


Offline nicname

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2015, 09:59:10 AM »
It is....(reassuring? confusing?  troubling?) reflect on an AD with an even more perfunctory coaching search than our last bball hire.

I enjoyed wefald's thoughts on hiring Altman:

Quote
"We have gone through a circumstance that is difficult for all of us," he said. "We understand that. But you go on. Kansas State University has endured, and will endure. I slept last night. I slept well. I felt good."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/archives/still-stunned-k-state-gives-reins-to-altman/article_0c8f1b9e-7e8d-5726-aba7-5b58bf6b82c7.html

Also::

Quote
Offensively, we'll push the ball up and down the court. We're going to increase the tempo."

:D

It's funny, because Lon's teams scored a ton of points. A lot relative to KSU anyway.
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Offline nicname

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2015, 10:02:56 AM »
One must not forget that Eddie Sutton begged for the K-State job after Kruger left, and that K-State all but had Tubby Smith signed, but he had a last second change of mind.

I thought the Sutton thing was when Hartman was sucking, or am I thinking of Hartman nearly leaving K-State then coming back and sucking?
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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2015, 10:06:02 AM »
One must not forget that Eddie Sutton begged for the K-State job after Kruger left, and that K-State all but had Tubby Smith signed, but he had a last second change of mind.

Sutton clearly would've been the better hire in retrospect, but you can't really say hiring Kruger wasn't a bad move by the A.D.

It would have been Sutton instead of Altman after he got fired from Kentucky.

And Tubby instead of Asbury. IIRC Tubby was ready to take the job, but went back to Tulsa and decided to stay another year before leaving for Georgia.

Offline Ghost of Stan Parrish

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2015, 10:07:25 AM »
The Sutton begging for the job moment was when we hired Altman. Sutton had just been fired at Kentucky for sucking and being a drunk.
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Offline nicname

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2015, 10:09:51 AM »
The Sutton begging for the job moment was when we hired Altman. Sutton had just been fired at Kentucky for sucking and being a drunk.

And cheating.

Edit: I meant getting caught cheating.
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Offline Ghost of Stan Parrish

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2015, 10:23:05 AM »
Altman did bring in some talent. Way more than Asbury ever did, or Wooly early on.

Altman recruited Ski Jones while an assistant, and then added Jean Derouillere as another backcourt shooter when he became head coach. Pretty good combo there for his first teams. Up front we had Deryl Cunningham (who teamed with Aaron Collier for the famous AC/DC frontcourt). Anthony Beane was good. Tony Massop was ridiculously athletic, though that didn't translate directly into being the best basketball player. If Darryl King or Brian Henson had been as good as their older brothers, or as good as their ratings, Altman might have worked out.

Altman did rely heavily on juco players (he was an old juco coach) and some folks would've preferred more HS recruits.
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Offline The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2015, 10:25:44 AM »
if true, it's crazy that a single cheerleader changed the course of ksu hoops history.

save the cheerleader, save KSU hoops.
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Offline Ghost of Stan Parrish

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2015, 10:26:39 AM »
From the 1995 Lawrence Journal-World:

Quote
Tom Asbury caused quite a stir last April when he was named head basketball coach at Kansas State.

Asbury, who brought a pair of Pepperdine teams to Lawrence said Allen Fieldhouse "was not the greatest place in the world."

He also said if KU coach Roy Williams had a choice, he'd take KSU's Bramlage Coliseum as his home building instead of KU's tradition-rich arena.

"I've already said all I'm going to say on that. I got the whole state of Kansas mad at me," Asbury said Monday.

K-State's coach, who has been quite quotable, unlike his predecessor, Dana Altman, was asked Monday if he regrets making the controversial statements about KU.

"Hell no," Asbury told the Manhattan Mercury, "but I'm not gonna say it again."

*****

"Kansas State has had some success there in the past. If we play smart and shoot it, maybe we can give 'em a game."

K-State won here a year ago, beating then No. 1-ranked KU, 68-64. The Wildcats are 17-23 overall at Allen. The 17 wins mark the most by any visiting team.

(That last bit... :frown:)
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Offline SdK

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #62 on: February 10, 2015, 10:29:34 AM »
Wow. Those were the days.

#TheWesIsTheFuture


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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #63 on: February 10, 2015, 10:30:00 AM »
From the 1995 Lawrence Journal-World:

Quote
Tom Asbury caused quite a stir last April when he was named head basketball coach at Kansas State.

Asbury, who brought a pair of Pepperdine teams to Lawrence said Allen Fieldhouse "was not the greatest place in the world."

He also said if KU coach Roy Williams had a choice, he'd take KSU's Bramlage Coliseum as his home building instead of KU's tradition-rich arena.

"I've already said all I'm going to say on that. I got the whole state of Kansas mad at me," Asbury said Monday.

K-State's coach, who has been quite quotable, unlike his predecessor, Dana Altman, was asked Monday if he regrets making the controversial statements about KU.

"Hell no," Asbury told the Manhattan Mercury, "but I'm not gonna say it again."

*****

"Kansas State has had some success there in the past. If we play smart and shoot it, maybe we can give 'em a game."

K-State won here a year ago, beating then No. 1-ranked KU, 68-64. The Wildcats are 17-23 overall at Allen. The 17 wins mark the most by any visiting team.

(That last bit... :frown:)

17-23 at the Phog sounds made up.
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Offline pissclams

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #64 on: February 10, 2015, 10:38:11 AM »
Altman did bring in some talent. Way more than Asbury ever did, or Wooly early on.

Altman recruited Ski Jones while an assistant, and then added Jean Derouillere as another backcourt shooter when he became head coach. Pretty good combo there for his first teams. Up front we had Deryl Cunningham (who teamed with Aaron Collier for the famous AC/DC frontcourt). Anthony Beane was good. Tony Massop was ridiculously athletic, though that didn't translate directly into being the best basketball player. If Darryl King or Brian Henson had been as good as their older brothers, or as good as their ratings, Altman might have worked out.

Altman did rely heavily on juco players (he was an old juco coach) and some folks would've preferred more HS recruits.

i was just about to post this.
add belvis, vince jackson, and demond davis.  we had some talented players 1-3, i think the failure landed on alman and his ability to develop post players capable of going up against some of the best 4-5's our conference will ever see.  the b8/12 was pretty good when altman was here.


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Offline deputy dawg

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #65 on: February 10, 2015, 10:44:12 AM »
IIRC, Lon left after refusing to sever the unibrow, which was thought to be unbecoming to K-State's image.  Man, an incredible volume of LKSUBBIQ on display here.

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #66 on: February 10, 2015, 10:46:41 AM »
Altman did bring in some talent. Way more than Asbury ever did, or Wooly early on.

Altman recruited Ski Jones while an assistant, and then added Jean Derouillere as another backcourt shooter when he became head coach. Pretty good combo there for his first teams. Up front we had Deryl Cunningham (who teamed with Aaron Collier for the famous AC/DC frontcourt). Anthony Beane was good. Tony Massop was ridiculously athletic, though that didn't translate directly into being the best basketball player. If Darryl King or Brian Henson had been as good as their older brothers, or as good as their ratings, Altman might have worked out.

Altman did rely heavily on juco players (he was an old juco coach) and some folks would've preferred more HS recruits.
JC basketball in the 80s and into the early 90s was light years better than what we have now.  There were usually at least a handfull of NBA players every year in JCs and dozens of impact high major guys. 

Prep schools really started to change all that in the mid to late 90s and I have always wondered what changed, was it was the shoe money from Nike and Adidas that made it so high major kids could get scholarships to the Oak Hill's and Hargrave's to get their grades up for 1 year instead of Butler or Hutch for 2.

Offline j rake

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #67 on: February 10, 2015, 10:48:19 AM »
Quote
Wooldridge said he's down to nine healthy players at KSU was asked if he agrees with a controversial quote attributed to Asbury last year: "We don't have anybody KU would want and KU doesn't have anybody we've been able to get."

"I won't say that," said Wooldridge, whose first KSU team has defeated ranked teams in Iowa and Missouri. "I really like my nine guys. They have fought really hard for their season, for themselves, their team, school and program. I like my guys. We're going to go over there and compete."

Overall, the Jayhawks have won 19 straight over KSU, the Wildcats' last victory a 68-64 victory in 1994 in Lawrence.

"The rivalry between K-State and Kansas has been around a long, long time," Wooldridge said. "Our program has taken a little bit of a dip, but we're not second-class citizens. We don't perceive ourselves that way.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #68 on: February 10, 2015, 10:55:52 AM »
Prep schools really started to change all that in the mid to late 90s and I have always wondered what changed, was it was the shoe money from Nike and Adidas that made it so high major kids could get scholarships to the Oak Hill's and Hargrave's to get their grades up for 1 year instead of Butler or Hutch for 2.

A prep school (might as well be called a basketball school) for 1 year that uses no college eligibility vs going to some JUCO in Kansas or Florida for 2 while using 2 years of eligibility? That decision seems pretty easy.

Offline Ghost of Stan Parrish

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #69 on: February 10, 2015, 10:57:11 AM »
Years ago I wrote out a comparison of KU and KSU basketball history on the eve of the two teams' 1988 Elite Eight game. They were very comparable, with KSU having the edge in certain areas like #1 rankings and NCAA appearances (IIRC). Fatty used that post as his signature for a while...

But, my god, when KU has Roy Williams as coach and KSU has Asbury and Wooldridge as coaches, your programs are going to go in opposite directions. Fast.
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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #70 on: February 10, 2015, 11:00:02 AM »
Quote
Wooldridge said he's down to nine healthy players at KSU was asked if he agrees with a controversial quote attributed to Asbury last year: "We don't have anybody KU would want and KU doesn't have anybody we've been able to get."

"I won't say that," said Wooldridge, whose first KSU team has defeated ranked teams in Iowa and Missouri. "I really like my nine guys. They have fought really hard for their season, for themselves, their team, school and program. I like my guys. We're going to go over there and compete."

Overall, the Jayhawks have won 19 straight over KSU, the Wildcats' last victory a 68-64 victory in 1994 in Lawrence.

"The rivalry between K-State and Kansas has been around a long, long time," Wooldridge said. "Our program has taken a little bit of a dip, but we're not second-class citizens. We don't perceive ourselves that way.

added another bold part! Rashad Washington got decent minutes that season.

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #71 on: February 10, 2015, 11:04:28 AM »
Altman did bring in some talent. Way more than Asbury ever did, or Wooly early on.

Altman recruited Ski Jones while an assistant, and then added Jean Derouillere as another backcourt shooter when he became head coach. Pretty good combo there for his first teams. Up front we had Deryl Cunningham (who teamed with Aaron Collier for the famous AC/DC frontcourt). Anthony Beane was good. Tony Massop was ridiculously athletic, though that didn't translate directly into being the best basketball player. If Darryl King or Brian Henson had been as good as their older brothers, or as good as their ratings, Altman might have worked out.

Altman did rely heavily on juco players (he was an old juco coach) and some folks would've preferred more HS recruits.

i was just about to post this.
add belvis, vince jackson, and demond davis.  we had some talented players 1-3, i think the failure landed on alman and his ability to develop post players capable of going up against some of the best 4-5's our conference will ever see.  the b8/12 was pretty good when altman was here.
yeah, it was not uncommon for Roy to be 2 deep with NBA posts, Norm would have the occasional Jevon Crudup  to go with his stable of local 6-8 dirty white boys and Billy was tailing off at OU but still had talent and Eddie was DITRing for NBA guys as OSU was on the rise.

All the while the cats are rolling out a couple of DJamer types at best :frown: 

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #72 on: February 10, 2015, 11:07:23 AM »
added another bold part! Rashad Washington got decent minutes that season.

I remember trying to sell myself on that being cool, like we've got a Deion Sanders thing going on right there within KSU!

Offline j rake

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #73 on: February 10, 2015, 11:08:52 AM »
damn, bring back asbury! this guy was entertaining  :D

Quote
If Kansas State coach Tom Asbury listens to his daughter, there will be no sequel to his recent criticism of former Oklahoma coach Billy Tubbs.

Asbury labored in relative obscurity at Pepperdine in southern California before taking over at Kansas State this year. He could say things without a whole lot of people writing it down.

"In Los Angeles," Asbury said Tuesday, "they'd cover an 0-27 USC before they'd cover a 27-0 Pepperdine. " But when he called Tubbs a jerk, an idiot, a negative recruiter and an overrated coach, it got picked up by the Big Eight media and got all the way to Hollywood where his daughter lives.

Asbury said his daughter, Megan, a sophomore at Pepperdine, called after hearing his comments.

"She says, 'Dad, I got you the lead in a movie. ' " "I said, 'Really? ' " "She said, 'Yeah, Dumb and Dumber, Part II. You're going to get to play both parts. ' "I said, 'OK, Hon. You're right. ' "

Asbury said the postman has been busy in Manhattan.

"The response has been interesting during the last week," he said. "It's been two-sided. I probably don't have a tendency to maybe take it as seriously as some people would like you to, or as some coaches do. It's just my nature."

Asbury says, however, that he was misquoted in some accounts in which he was said to have called Iowa State forward Fred Hoiberg no better than a Division II player.

Asbury said he meant that Hoiberg is a good shooter who plays beyond his athletic abilities.

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Re: why did kruger leave k-state?
« Reply #74 on: February 10, 2015, 11:11:37 AM »
Altman did bring in some talent. Way more than Asbury ever did, or Wooly early on.

Altman recruited Ski Jones while an assistant, and then added Jean Derouillere as another backcourt shooter when he became head coach. Pretty good combo there for his first teams. Up front we had Deryl Cunningham (who teamed with Aaron Collier for the famous AC/DC frontcourt). Anthony Beane was good. Tony Massop was ridiculously athletic, though that didn't translate directly into being the best basketball player. If Darryl King or Brian Henson had been as good as their older brothers, or as good as their ratings, Altman might have worked out.

Altman did rely heavily on juco players (he was an old juco coach) and some folks would've preferred more HS recruits.

i was just about to post this.
add belvis, vince jackson, and demond davis.  we had some talented players 1-3, i think the failure landed on alman and his ability to develop post players capable of going up against some of the best 4-5's our conference will ever see.  the b8/12 was pretty good when altman was here.
yeah, it was not uncommon for Roy to be 2 deep with NBA posts, Norm would have the occasional Jevon Crudup  to go with his stable of local 6-8 dirty white boys and Billy was tailing off at OU but still had talent and Eddie was DITRing for NBA guys as OSU was on the rise.

All the while the cats are rolling out a couple of DJamer types at best :frown: 

vandiver @ cu
big country @ osu
doug smith @ mu
stacey king @ ou
chievous @ mu

just off the top of my head these guys were all really good.  meanwhile altman was running john rettinger out there.


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