Author Topic: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?  (Read 38182 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wetwillie

  • goEMAW Poster of the WEEK
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 30416
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #150 on: February 01, 2015, 10:09:29 PM »
i dont make that kinda scratch but i have to imagine there are legit ways of avoiding a huge tax bill with that kind of income. 
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline renocat

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 5971
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #151 on: February 01, 2015, 10:24:26 PM »
Since Obama net take home pay down and income flat.  Renosweets is buying bargains to get by.  I hate the cheap half tissue half steel wool toilet paper the most.  With Bush, and even Clinton it was Charmin Nirvana.

Offline star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 64037
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #152 on: February 01, 2015, 10:25:22 PM »
you should check out cottenelle  :love:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline chum1

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 21917
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #153 on: February 01, 2015, 10:33:04 PM »
I have a friend (non-Canadian) who makes between $400 and $500 thousand dollars/year and he thinks taxes are "way to eff'n high." He has actually said that to me on a couple of occasions. Is he not telling me the truth?

If he was bitching about it because he can't make ends meet, then no.

Offline slobber

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 12427
  • Gonna win 'em all!
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #154 on: February 01, 2015, 10:42:05 PM »
I have a friend (non-Canadian) who makes between $400 and $500 thousand dollars/year and he thinks taxes are "way to eff'n high." He has actually said that to me on a couple of occasions. Is he not telling me the truth?

If he was bitching about it because he can't make ends meet, then no.
The ends meet just fine for him. He just thinks its ridiculous how much the government takes.

Offline Dr Rick Daris

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 23383
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #155 on: February 02, 2015, 12:09:57 AM »
I have a friend (non-Canadian) who makes between $400 and $500 thousand dollars/year and he thinks taxes are "way to eff'n high." He has actually said that to me on a couple of occasions. Is he not telling me the truth?

If he was bitching about it because he can't make ends meet, then no.
The ends meet just fine for him. He just thinks its ridiculous how much the government takes.

does he have four kids that will spend their entire lives in the public school system? if so tell him to shut up and happily take the handout.

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40524
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #156 on: February 02, 2015, 02:34:38 AM »
The people really screwed by the tax system are the middle class people with no kids.

you're goddamn right we are.  get off my back, govt.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline puniraptor

  • Tastemaker
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 21336
  • nostalgic reason
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #157 on: February 02, 2015, 08:24:42 AM »
DINK checking in here, really feeling bitter about subsidizing KSUHENRY's 4 children.


Offline Tobias

  • Fattyfest Champion
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29146
  • hypoclique lieutenant
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #158 on: February 02, 2015, 08:26:11 AM »
DINK checking in here, really feeling bitter about subsidising KSUHENRY's 4 children.

DINK ISFJ here, i Feel enraged :curse:

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 10040
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #159 on: February 02, 2015, 09:12:26 AM »
Everyone always confuses marginal with overall and it's aggravating because it's not a difficult thing to understand

Just as a little side discussion because it's interesting, I agree that marginal tax rate is pretty worthless. By "overall tax rate" I assume you're referring to "average tax rate" or "effective tax rate", which is the amount of taxes paid divided by your taxable income (which means after deductions). While that's a better number to look at than marginal rate, I think the best number to look at is what I would consider you're "true" rate, which is simply the taxes you paid divided by your gross income.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85333
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #160 on: February 02, 2015, 10:27:51 AM »
Everyone always confuses marginal with overall and it's aggravating because it's not a difficult thing to understand

Just as a little side discussion because it's interesting, I agree that marginal tax rate is pretty worthless. By "overall tax rate" I assume you're referring to "average tax rate" or "effective tax rate", which is the amount of taxes paid divided by your taxable income (which means after deductions). While that's a better number to look at than marginal rate, I think the best number to look at is what I would consider you're "true" rate, which is simply the taxes you paid divided by your gross income.

I was using overall because I was responding to sys who used overall. I'm assuming he meant effective.

Offline Institutional Control

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 14960
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #161 on: February 02, 2015, 11:06:04 AM »
Is $190K really upper middle class? Seems like a low number.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53786
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #162 on: February 02, 2015, 11:15:35 AM »
Is $190K really upper middle class? Seems like a low number.

seems pretty reasonable. It's interesting that being in the top 5% is considered "middle class", but it's a pretty common description:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_States
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 11:19:15 AM by michigancat »

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40524
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #163 on: February 02, 2015, 11:17:00 AM »
it's rich.   middle class is actually the class in the middle, not just the class both rich and poor people in the united states fantasize they belong to.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40524
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #164 on: February 02, 2015, 11:19:05 AM »
Everyone always confuses marginal with overall and it's aggravating because it's not a difficult thing to understand

Just as a little side discussion because it's interesting, I agree that marginal tax rate is pretty worthless. By "overall tax rate" I assume you're referring to "average tax rate" or "effective tax rate", which is the amount of taxes paid divided by your taxable income (which means after deductions). While that's a better number to look at than marginal rate, I think the best number to look at is what I would consider you're "true" rate, which is simply the taxes you paid divided by your gross income.

I was using overall because I was responding to sys who used overall. I'm assuming he meant effective.

i just made an assumption as to why fsd's numbers looked so off.  if i were to use it more precisely, in my mind ''overall" would be synonymous with how ksuw uses "'true''.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53786
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #165 on: February 02, 2015, 11:21:16 AM »
it's rich.   middle class is actually the class in the middle, not just the class both rich and poor people in the united states fantasize they belong to.

Poor people in the US think they're middle class? I really didn't know this.

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40524
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #166 on: February 02, 2015, 11:22:44 AM »
Poor people in the US think they're middle class? I really didn't know this.

americans are weird.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 37099
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #167 on: February 02, 2015, 11:46:01 AM »
it's rich.   middle class is actually the class in the middle, not just the class both rich and poor people in the united states fantasize they belong to.

Poor people in the US think they're middle class? I really didn't know this.

Almost everyone in the US thinks they're middle class.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 10040
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #168 on: February 02, 2015, 11:46:13 AM »
it's rich.   middle class is actually the class in the middle, not just the class both rich and poor people in the united states fantasize they belong to.

Again, I was using the term as the author defined it in his (I think, ridiculous) editorial. I would consider myself lower upper class. :cashmoney:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85333
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #169 on: February 02, 2015, 12:05:31 PM »
I like the discussion of defining classes. I have no idea where the cutoff is on these things. it sounds like the middle class (and it's upper and lower groups) is like 95% of the country which seems stupid. I feel like it should be spread more evenly among all the levels. like 15% lower class. 20% low middle. 30% middle. 20% upper middle. 14% upper. 1% super upper. and that should have to be adjusted for cost of living. there should be a thing you enter stuff about yourself so you know who are your fiscal betters and worse'ers. and there should be a strict cutoff so you know exactly when you enter a new level. like level'ing up in video games.

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85333
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #170 on: February 02, 2015, 12:14:49 PM »
like this


Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20496
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #171 on: February 02, 2015, 12:15:41 PM »
I like the discussion of defining classes. I have no idea where the cutoff is on these things. it sounds like the middle class (and it's upper and lower groups) is like 95% of the country which seems stupid. I feel like it should be spread more evenly among all the levels. like 10% lower class. 25% low middle. 25% middle. 25% upper middle. 10% upper. 5% super upper. and that should have to be adjusted for cost of living. there should be a thing you enter stuff about yourself so you know who are your fiscal betters and worse'ers. and there should be a strict cutoff so you know exactly when you enter a new level. like level'ing up in video games.

Social class is not only determined by income by most sociologists, including the late, great KSU prof Richard Coleman.  But if we wanted to move in the direction of clarifying simplicity---income distribution is already broken down by quintile.

That gives us 5 categories:
Poor-Lower Middle/Working Class-Middle Class-Upper Middle Class-Rich/Upper Class


But you are always going to run in to obvious problems because of the inequality within these classes.  Household income of $250K withe Warren Buffet?  So maybe add a class on the top end with a cut off of 1%~ $1 million/yr?  But again, this is income, not wealth so we miss out on a lot of what is going on with the lower middle class and middle class with regards to upward mobility and the terrible balance sheets that they would be taking on to pursue higher ed or to be able to raise capital for a small business or the lack of savings in general. 

I prefer the quintile system because it is what it is and it at least illustrates how disingenuous the talk of the "middle class" really is.

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20496
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #172 on: February 02, 2015, 12:19:11 PM »
The idea that there should be 4 categories for the rich and one includes $135,000 - $600,000 defined as "upper middle class" is very weird.

Offline chum1

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 21917
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #173 on: February 02, 2015, 12:23:36 PM »
Why don't these class distinctions more closely follow actual distribution over the population?

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20496
    • View Profile
Re: Are you "Upper Middle Class"?
« Reply #174 on: February 02, 2015, 12:28:38 PM »
Why don't these class distinctions more closely follow actual distribution over the population?

That is what the quintiles are composed of.