Bloodied, Battered, and Bruced; WVU ADV

[CHONGS]

I say we run the 3-2 scramble

[pissclams]

I say we run the 3-2 scramble

love it, -it might work against the hawks, those guys hate to defend.   great suggesto and might be more effective the the 1-4 flat and 1-4 high combined LOL

[CNS]

I'm just sitting here laughing trying to think what would have happened if Frank said "Do not try to throw some rough ridin' hail marry inbounds pass" and our players did it 5 times. The rage would have been incredible.

Also, Frank's players would not have thrown that pass because he specifically told them not to.

He wouldn't have put them in that position because they would have been prepared for the press. I never recall having that much trouble with a press, even under oscar. As I've been saying, though, WVU deserves a ton of credit. Fun team to watch.

nebraska just scored again on a backdoor cut

 

[CNS]

All for the faster pace.  Looked really good against ISU(eye test).  That was one of the most entertaining games of the season for us, imo.  Even with an L.

[lopakman]

I'll bet we didn't even win the try hards.   

We played extremely hard, just not well.
Losing Niño was a killer; hope it is not a Travis Green injury.

I think Nigel was way too tentative upon breaking the press.
Also, the lack of finishers at the rim was problematic.
As usual, Jevon and Weber are getting too much blame for this loss.

We lost a dogfight against a great team when we lost our best player (lately) to an injury.  It happens.  This league is a grind.

you're a rough ridin' idiot

My thoughts exactly. 

[Clevey 2 Times]

I did miss the I-State game, so maybe that was a moment where we ran and it worked, but, in general, I tend to think speeding things up would be terrible. West Virginia sped us up at times and it was disastrous. Decision-making when playing faster will only be worse with the group of brainiacs we have on this team. Who has the handles and ability to finish? Marcus. Anyone else? Maybe Edwards. Jevon can't finish but has the quickness to get to the rim. Wes would work well in a fast paced offense I think, but he can't be trusted to handle the rock, we need better guard play to make him effective in that context. On top of all this, we need a deeper team if we want to run. It works for Huggins because he plays 11 guys fairly often. Face the facts, we're oscar-ing this offense. It'll be slow and methodical.

[kso_FAN]

I did miss the I-State game, so maybe that was a moment where we ran and it worked, but, in general, I tend to think speeding things up would be terrible. West Virginia sped us up at times and it was disastrous. Decision-making when playing faster will only be worse with the group of brainiacs we have on this team. Who has the handles and ability to finish? Marcus. Anyone else? Maybe Edwards. Jevon can't finish but has the quickness to get to the rim. Wes would work well in a fast paced offense I think, but he can't be trusted to handle the rock, we need better guard play to make him effective in that context. On top of all this, we need a deeper team if we want to run. It works for Huggins because he plays 11 guys fairly often. Face the facts, we're oscar-ing this offense. It'll be slow and methodical.

I agree with you completely.

I think the problems with speeding things up would be even more dramatic on defense. I'm sure we'd be more efficient on offense at a faster pace, but the defensive problems would be even more dramatic. At this point in his career I don't think oscar has a system that is going to work at a pace in the high 60s or low 70s.

[michigancat]

I don't think playing fast against WVU is the same as playing fast against other teams, because they are dictating who gets the ball where. I think every single one of our players except Gip and Hurt are made less effective in dribble the ball around the perimeter for 20 seconds offense. Nino has shown flashes in transition, and Wes, Edwards, and Foster would clearly benefit. I even think Jevon would help us because maybe he would shoot it every now and then - get ahead of the defense and create OR opportunities.

And pace on offense does not equal pace on defense - if anything a fast pace results in fewer players in your front court and somewhat reduces the other teams' ability to run. WVU's pace all comes from the defensive end, while a team like UNC gets it all from the offensive end. fun fact: Iowa State is actually 2nd in offensive possession length and 323 in defensive possession length.

[michigancat]

It's also worth noting that Jevon has the worst TO Rate of any regular-playing KSU Cat since Clent in 2006 and 2005 (no one else even comes close to being as bad as Jevon). It would be very, very hard for Jevon to get any worse in that department. I would guess a lot of his current turnovers would turn into missed shots in a faster offensive pace, if anything.

Transition offense doesn't require some special skillset that our players lack. I mean, you people act like a motion offense doesn't require "handles" or "decision making".

[pissclams]

the best way for jevon to get better at basketball is for jevon to quit playing basketball.  true story

[ksupamplemousse]

It's also worth noting that Jevon has the worst TO Rate of any regular-playing KSU Cat since Clent in 2006 and 2005 (no one else even comes close to being as bad as Jevon). It would be very, very hard for Jevon to get any worse in that department. I would guess a lot of his current turnovers would turn into missed shots in a faster offensive pace, if anything.

Transition offense doesn't require some special skillset that our players lack. I mean, you people act like a motion offense doesn't require "handles" or "decision making".

Yeah, I don't get the sense that our players are just turnover prone, and that faster pace would automatically exacerbate that problem. I get the feeling that several of our players do not have a good grasp on all the minutia of oscar's motion offense, and that uncertainty and overthinking are causing them to be hesitant and timid, which is obviously going to result in a bunch of turnovers at this level of basketball. Let them get some shots up, crash the boards, and run a little bit. This team needs confidence, and slowing things down and asking them to do things they're not comfortable doing is probably not going to help very much with that. oscar is very inflexible and that needs to change if he's ever going to avoid these giants peaks and valleys he seems to experience.

[kso_FAN]

It's also worth noting that Jevon has the worst TO Rate of any regular-playing KSU Cat since Clent in 2006 and 2005 (no one else even comes close to being as bad as Jevon). It would be very, very hard for Jevon to get any worse in that department. I would guess a lot of his current turnovers would turn into missed shots in a faster offensive pace, if anything.

Transition offense doesn't require some special skillset that our players lack. I mean, you people act like a motion offense doesn't require "handles" or "decision making".

Yeah, I don't get the sense that our players are just turnover prone, and that faster pace would automatically exacerbate that problem. I get the feeling that several of our players do not have a good grasp on all the minutia of oscar's motion offense, and that uncertainty and overthinking are causing them to be hesitant and timid, which is obviously going to result in a bunch of turnovers at this level of basketball. Let them get some shots up, crash the boards, and run a little bit. This team needs confidence, and slowing things down and asking them to do things they're not comfortable doing is probably not going to help very much with that. oscar is very inflexible and that needs to change if he's ever going to avoid these giants peaks and valleys he seems to experience.

This is probably true, though oscar's teams have had some variety in pace over the years with a few upper 60s seasons mixed in with mainly mid 60s. The lower 60s as we've seen this year and his first year here are more rare.

Again, I think the lower pace was a deliberate decision with this team after we started the season mainly at a higher pace and were 4-4. Of course we also had our worst stretch of the season playing slower, but I think in early December this staff made a specific decision to focus on slowing the pace and playing better defense.

I don't think this team would be any better playing at a high pace.

[michigancat]

It's also worth noting that Jevon has the worst TO Rate of any regular-playing KSU Cat since Clent in 2006 and 2005 (no one else even comes close to being as bad as Jevon). It would be very, very hard for Jevon to get any worse in that department. I would guess a lot of his current turnovers would turn into missed shots in a faster offensive pace, if anything.

Transition offense doesn't require some special skillset that our players lack. I mean, you people act like a motion offense doesn't require "handles" or "decision making".

Yeah, I don't get the sense that our players are just turnover prone, and that faster pace would automatically exacerbate that problem. I get the feeling that several of our players do not have a good grasp on all the minutia of oscar's motion offense, and that uncertainty and overthinking are causing them to be hesitant and timid, which is obviously going to result in a bunch of turnovers at this level of basketball. Let them get some shots up, crash the boards, and run a little bit. This team needs confidence, and slowing things down and asking them to do things they're not comfortable doing is probably not going to help very much with that. oscar is very inflexible and that needs to change if he's ever going to avoid these giants peaks and valleys he seems to experience.

This is probably true, though oscar's teams have had some variety in pace over the years with a few upper 60s seasons mixed in with mainly mid 60s. The lower 60s as we've seen this year and his first year here are more rare.

Again, I think the lower pace was a deliberate decision with this team after we started the season mainly at a higher pace and were 4-4. Of course we also had our worst stretch of the season playing slower, but I think in early December this staff made a specific decision to focus on slowing the pace and playing better defense.

What's great about this theory is Pitt was by far the slowest game of the 8 and the 4 wins were the 4 fastest games.

[kso_FAN]

I'm just looking at the trends this season of when the pace of our games slowed, though maybe there are none there. I knew you'd bring up the Pitt example when I posted that, but after the Tennessee game is when we consistently slowed the pace. It could just be the teams we played slowed the pace or made it faster without much impact on our part.

At the end of the day, this is all oscar being oscar with his philosophy. His teams have consistently played at a mid-60s pace the majority of his career and if anything he's slowed down since he's been at K-State. Of course can discuss that we "should" play at a higher pace, but the reality of the situation is that its not going to happen. Maybe it will cost oscar his job here, I don't know. I just have no expectation that we're going to see oscar roll out a team that regularly plays at 70 possessions any time soon. I'm sure part of his excuse for the problems with this year's team would be teaching a bunch of young guards to play his system at his pace and in the end most of that is on him for recruiting those players for this system.

[michigancat]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if oscar thought the problem after a 4-4 start was dude to playing to fast, nor do I expect him to change anything he does.

[kso_FAN]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if oscar thought the problem after a 4-4 start was dude to playing to fast, nor do I expect him to change anything he does.

Coaches are stubborn people. The pace that Hugg is playing at the last couple years is a good example of someone changing their system quite a bit.

Do you find oscar to be a bad coach or just mediocre?

[michigancat]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if oscar thought the problem after a 4-4 start was dude to playing to fast, nor do I expect him to change anything he does.

Coaches are stubborn people. The pace that Hugg is playing at the last couple years is a good example of someone changing their system quite a bit.

Do you find oscar to be a bad coach or just mediocre?

Coach k has played zone this year, too.

I think oscar is an average coach at this level. I hate his defensive philosophy but it works great against teams at an average and below level. I think his offense is far too rigid, but that hardly makes him unique among college coaches.

[kso_FAN]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if oscar thought the problem after a 4-4 start was dude to playing to fast, nor do I expect him to change anything he does.

Coaches are stubborn people. The pace that Hugg is playing at the last couple years is a good example of someone changing their system quite a bit.

Do you find oscar to be a bad coach or just mediocre?

Coach k has played zone this year, too.

I think oscar is an average coach at this level. I hate his defensive philosophy but it works great against teams at an average and below level. I think his offense is far too rigid, but that hardly makes him unique among college coaches.

Yeah, Coach K and zone is pretty great.

[Clevey 2 Times]

It's also worth noting that Jevon has the worst TO Rate of any regular-playing KSU Cat since Clent in 2006 and 2005 (no one else even comes close to being as bad as Jevon). It would be very, very hard for Jevon to get any worse in that department. I would guess a lot of his current turnovers would turn into missed shots in a faster offensive pace, if anything.

Transition offense doesn't require some special skillset that our players lack. I mean, you people act like a motion offense doesn't require "handles" or "decision making".

Yeah, I don't get the sense that our players are just turnover prone, and that faster pace would automatically exacerbate that problem. I get the feeling that several of our players do not have a good grasp on all the minutia of oscar's motion offense, and that uncertainty and overthinking are causing them to be hesitant and timid, which is obviously going to result in a bunch of turnovers at this level of basketball. Let them get some shots up, crash the boards, and run a little bit. This team needs confidence, and slowing things down and asking them to do things they're not comfortable doing is probably not going to help very much with that. oscar is very inflexible and that needs to change if he's ever going to avoid these giants peaks and valleys he seems to experience.

This is probably true, though oscar's teams have had some variety in pace over the years with a few upper 60s seasons mixed in with mainly mid 60s. The lower 60s as we've seen this year and his first year here are more rare.

Again, I think the lower pace was a deliberate decision with this team after we started the season mainly at a higher pace and were 4-4. Of course we also had our worst stretch of the season playing slower, but I think in early December this staff made a specific decision to focus on slowing the pace and playing better defense.

What's great about this theory is Pitt was by far the slowest game of the 8 and the 4 wins were the 4 fastest games.

I think I'd be for a faster pace if we had a rim protector defensively.

[michigancat]

It's also worth noting that Jevon has the worst TO Rate of any regular-playing KSU Cat since Clent in 2006 and 2005 (no one else even comes close to being as bad as Jevon). It would be very, very hard for Jevon to get any worse in that department. I would guess a lot of his current turnovers would turn into missed shots in a faster offensive pace, if anything.

Transition offense doesn't require some special skillset that our players lack. I mean, you people act like a motion offense doesn't require "handles" or "decision making".

Yeah, I don't get the sense that our players are just turnover prone, and that faster pace would automatically exacerbate that problem. I get the feeling that several of our players do not have a good grasp on all the minutia of oscar's motion offense, and that uncertainty and overthinking are causing them to be hesitant and timid, which is obviously going to result in a bunch of turnovers at this level of basketball. Let them get some shots up, crash the boards, and run a little bit. This team needs confidence, and slowing things down and asking them to do things they're not comfortable doing is probably not going to help very much with that. oscar is very inflexible and that needs to change if he's ever going to avoid these giants peaks and valleys he seems to experience.

This is probably true, though oscar's teams have had some variety in pace over the years with a few upper 60s seasons mixed in with mainly mid 60s. The lower 60s as we've seen this year and his first year here are more rare.

Again, I think the lower pace was a deliberate decision with this team after we started the season mainly at a higher pace and were 4-4. Of course we also had our worst stretch of the season playing slower, but I think in early December this staff made a specific decision to focus on slowing the pace and playing better defense.

What's great about this theory is Pitt was by far the slowest game of the 8 and the 4 wins were the 4 fastest games.

I think I'd be for a faster pace if we had a rim protector defensively.

I don't want us to trap or press or speed up pace defensively.

[Clevey 2 Times]

It's also worth noting that Jevon has the worst TO Rate of any regular-playing KSU Cat since Clent in 2006 and 2005 (no one else even comes close to being as bad as Jevon). It would be very, very hard for Jevon to get any worse in that department. I would guess a lot of his current turnovers would turn into missed shots in a faster offensive pace, if anything.

Transition offense doesn't require some special skillset that our players lack. I mean, you people act like a motion offense doesn't require "handles" or "decision making".

Yeah, I don't get the sense that our players are just turnover prone, and that faster pace would automatically exacerbate that problem. I get the feeling that several of our players do not have a good grasp on all the minutia of oscar's motion offense, and that uncertainty and overthinking are causing them to be hesitant and timid, which is obviously going to result in a bunch of turnovers at this level of basketball. Let them get some shots up, crash the boards, and run a little bit. This team needs confidence, and slowing things down and asking them to do things they're not comfortable doing is probably not going to help very much with that. oscar is very inflexible and that needs to change if he's ever going to avoid these giants peaks and valleys he seems to experience.

This is probably true, though oscar's teams have had some variety in pace over the years with a few upper 60s seasons mixed in with mainly mid 60s. The lower 60s as we've seen this year and his first year here are more rare.

Again, I think the lower pace was a deliberate decision with this team after we started the season mainly at a higher pace and were 4-4. Of course we also had our worst stretch of the season playing slower, but I think in early December this staff made a specific decision to focus on slowing the pace and playing better defense.

What's great about this theory is Pitt was by far the slowest game of the 8 and the 4 wins were the 4 fastest games.

I think I'd be for a faster pace if we had a rim protector defensively.

I don't want us to trap or press or speed up pace defensively.

Agreed. I just have visions of us not scoring in a faster paced offense and needing someone that can threaten defensively at the rim as the opponent rushes down the court following a turnover or miss. My bigger concern, we're not in good enough shape to pick up the pace.