Author Topic: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops  (Read 181257 times)

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Offline nicname

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1925 on: April 21, 2021, 12:13:40 AM »
I want to believe Mark Davis wrote that.
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1926 on: April 21, 2021, 02:25:15 AM »
I want to believe Mark Davis wrote that.

He's claiming responsibility

Offline Cire

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1927 on: April 21, 2021, 05:51:30 AM »
Hope that the combo of body cams, public awareness (ie people stopping and observing when people of color are being detained), and department leaders calling out and testifying to  improper behavior will be the blueprint moving forward to hold police accountable for their actions.

I think that’s the best hope, but that isn’t going to prevent shithead people from becoming police and doing shithead things.

But, accountability is a step in the right direction


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Offline michigancat

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1928 on: April 21, 2021, 09:19:14 AM »


Hope that the combo of body cams, public awareness (ie people stopping and observing when people of color are being detained), and department leaders calling out and testifying to  improper behavior will be the blueprint moving forward to hold police accountable for their actions.

I think that’s the best hope, but that isn’t going to prevent shithead people from becoming police and doing shithead things.

But, accountability is a step in the right direction


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None of that will change a damn thing other than raising awareness that hopefully leads to a complete restructuring of policing.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1929 on: April 21, 2021, 09:36:22 AM »
I think it's possible that cops can resist their desire to kill/maim when it appears there may be sufficient public sentiment that it's not acceptable and you could get 40 years.

If I were a dickhead cop I would be altering my behavior today.

Online chum1

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1930 on: April 21, 2021, 09:44:19 AM »
I think it's possible that cops can resist their desire to kill/maim when it appears there may be sufficient public sentiment that it's not acceptable and you could get 40 years.

If I were a dickhead cop I would be altering my behavior today.

For sure. Cops are acutely aware of how the court system works and what they can get away with. They behave accordingly. This case is so public that they should see increased risk to themselves here.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1931 on: April 21, 2021, 09:55:30 AM »
The tweets of "good luck getting good candidates to apply" is so stupid.  Like, dang the guys who like to kill and get away with it will stop applying.  What a shame

Offline DQ12

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1932 on: April 21, 2021, 10:17:44 AM »
i'm not sure police get a ton of "good candidates" as it is.


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1933 on: April 21, 2021, 10:25:30 AM »
i'm not sure police get a ton of "good candidates" as it is.

Indeed.  If you were all ready to be a cop but the Chauvin verdict causes to abruptly change your mind then...yeah.  Your community dodged a bullet (literally?)

Offline michigancat

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1934 on: April 21, 2021, 10:51:11 AM »
I think it's possible that cops can resist their desire to kill/maim when it appears there may be sufficient public sentiment that it's not acceptable and you could get 40 years.

If I were a dickhead cop I would be altering my behavior today.

For sure. Cops are acutely aware of how the court system works and what they can get away with. They behave accordingly. This case is so public that they should see increased risk to themselves here.

this was an extreme example. Even cops thought Chauvin mumped up.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1935 on: April 21, 2021, 11:17:29 AM »
I think it's possible that cops can resist their desire to kill/maim when it appears there may be sufficient public sentiment that it's not acceptable and you could get 40 years.

If I were a dickhead cop I would be altering my behavior today.

For sure. Cops are acutely aware of how the court system works and what they can get away with. They behave accordingly. This case is so public that they should see increased risk to themselves here.

this was an extreme example. Even cops thought Chauvin mumped up.

And?  There are some extreme cops out there.  They got a warning shot

Offline michigancat

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1936 on: April 21, 2021, 11:23:37 AM »
I think it's possible that cops can resist their desire to kill/maim when it appears there may be sufficient public sentiment that it's not acceptable and you could get 40 years.

If I were a dickhead cop I would be altering my behavior today.

For sure. Cops are acutely aware of how the court system works and what they can get away with. They behave accordingly. This case is so public that they should see increased risk to themselves here.

this was an extreme example. Even cops thought Chauvin mumped up.

And?  There are some extreme cops out there.  They got a warning shot

There aren't enough that thought what Chauvin did was right to make any meaningful impact.

yeah and I'm saying the nu

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1937 on: April 21, 2021, 11:26:09 AM »
I think it's possible that cops can resist their desire to kill/maim when it appears there may be sufficient public sentiment that it's not acceptable and you could get 40 years.

If I were a dickhead cop I would be altering my behavior today.

If you were a dickhead cop the already existing cognitive dissonance would prevent you from altering your behavior. The systems are on your side and everything you hear in house will trump whatever you may see on tv which you're likely avoiding anyway.

I'll give you two examples of dickhead cops being allowed to be dickheads and it being actually something that's valued.

The Des Moines PD are currently under fire because the person they assigned as their newly created descalation trainer has been suspended for use of excessive force and was the subject of an $800,000 settlement for caving a dudes face in after he was cuffed. Despite the very obvious calls for him to be removed, they won't do it.

Ames is far and away the most liberal place I have ever lived, including when I lived one town west of Boston. There were people up the street from us who had their young children have a booth on the sidewalk over the weekend raising money for "Derek Chauvin's defense and the blue lives matter fund."

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1938 on: April 21, 2021, 11:50:26 AM »
I guess we are all free to speculate on the net result.  I choose to be positive.  I choose to believe dickhead cops don't want 40 years in gen pop.  Even if they are insanely racist they still don't want to go to jail.

No one is saying the verdict is the end of abuse.  You don't need a strawman

Online chum1

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1939 on: April 21, 2021, 11:55:14 AM »
I think it's possible that cops can resist their desire to kill/maim when it appears there may be sufficient public sentiment that it's not acceptable and you could get 40 years.

If I were a dickhead cop I would be altering my behavior today.

For sure. Cops are acutely aware of how the court system works and what they can get away with. They behave accordingly. This case is so public that they should see increased risk to themselves here.

this was an extreme example. Even cops thought Chauvin mumped up.

I think cops saw the same thing we all did: Chauvin doing routine cop things.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1940 on: April 21, 2021, 11:56:44 AM »
To say that cops and all lives matter folks universally decried Chauvin's actions is entirely and 100% false.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1941 on: April 21, 2021, 11:57:12 AM »
I guess we are all free to speculate on the net result.  I choose to be positive.  I choose to believe dickhead cops don't want 40 years in gen pop.  Even if they are insanely racist they still don't want to go to jail.

No one is saying the verdict is the end of abuse.  You don't need a strawman

I'm glad you have that positivity, I don't, I literally don't feel the least bit different than what I did yesterday. When I get pulled over I'll still check my rearview hoping that I don't get approached by a cop with a gun drawn forcing me to make a snap decision on what to do with my rough ridin' hands to make sure I make it home to my family.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1942 on: April 21, 2021, 12:04:09 PM »
no doubt.  At least we learned there are juries who will throw them away.  No consolation for the life taken obviously.

Offline Trim

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1943 on: April 21, 2021, 12:22:35 PM »
Some of the worst cops might quit because of yesterday's verdict, but it doesn't do much to make cop jobs attractive to good normals.

Offline michigancat

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1944 on: April 21, 2021, 12:31:11 PM »
To say that cops and all lives matter folks universally decried Chauvin's actions is entirely and 100% false.

for sure, but the Fraternal Order of Police supported the verdict, which IMO makes it a bit unique

https://www.businessinsider.com/police-group-says-justice-has-worked-after-derek-chauvin-found-guilty-2021-4


compare to ferguson prepared statements:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jimdalrympleii/documents-reveal-planned-police-response-to-darren-wilson-in

Offline CNS

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1945 on: April 21, 2021, 12:39:06 PM »
I don't think culture problems across a population as large as the collective police forces of our country will change from the one-off murder trial, hand slap, or sensitivity training.  The culture needs to be addressed daily across the population from management at all levels.  I am not sure how to do it, but it seems that somethings are simple, like daily management to enforce the end of the Thin Blue Line mantra.  Lines divide people.  Police can't be allowed to feel justified in feeling separated from those they police.

Other things like enforcement of operational body cameras 100% of the time.  If the departments managed their employees to treat their cam like they do their gun, in ensuring it is in good operation before going on duty, the bullshit about body cameras not being on during incidents will go away.

I think a big part of the problem is with a union that is too strong and has too much control, influence, and money.  Low salaries drawing poor candidates and a strong union making it hard to cull out the bad ones early enough is a huge issue.  They also need a crap load more training.  Both upfront at their academy, and continuing ed training on the job. 

A lot of the issues could most likely be helped with a lot more money that is managed by good managers who have the ability to fire poor officers.  Unfortunately, we find ourselves in a world where de-escalation is something a pussy does and where problems are thought to solve themselves once to take tax money away, so nothing is going to change.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1946 on: April 21, 2021, 01:12:08 PM »
That's great CNS, I'm down with all of it except for "more money." However, I don't think you mean to give them more money but want more of the money they have to be utilized better.

Offline CNS

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1947 on: April 21, 2021, 01:22:40 PM »
That's great CNS, I'm down with all of it except for "more money." However, I don't think you mean to give them more money but want more of the money they have to be utilized better.

Maybe.  What I mean is that salaries should be higher, at least in some areas.  I look at cops like I do teachers.  If pay is low and conditions are bad, you are only really attracting those who either feel a calling by a profession, or don't have good other options.  Those who feel a calling don't make up near enough of a quantity to fill the jobs.  Raise salaries to attract better candidates, train better and much more often, and fire early.   I don't know what the budget structure of a standard precinct is, but unless a whole crap load of money is not going to cop salaries, then I do mean more money. 

They need to get rid of military gear too.  If you want to soldier, go join the army.  Policing isn't LARPing and that crap needs to get screened out.

Offline Cire

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1948 on: April 21, 2021, 01:43:58 PM »
Yeah, the military stuff is awful.  Police should look like dorks, in dorky uniforms and not paramilitary.

Offline michigancat

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #1949 on: April 21, 2021, 02:03:09 PM »
To say that cops and all lives matter folks universally decried Chauvin's actions is entirely and 100% false.

for sure, but the Fraternal Order of Police supported the verdict, which IMO makes it a bit unique

https://www.businessinsider.com/police-group-says-justice-has-worked-after-derek-chauvin-found-guilty-2021-4


compare to ferguson prepared statements:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jimdalrympleii/documents-reveal-planned-police-response-to-darren-wilson-in

https://twitter.com/Slate/status/1384940834974486528

Quote
Blue Lives Matter devotees have long acknowledged the so-called bad apples scattered among U.S. police departments. Chauvin the murderer, in this view, is the exception that proves the rule. His conviction isn’t the very least Floyd’s community should expect after a neighbor was murdered, by a government employee, with their tax dollars. It’s proof that the system as it exists is not broken at all, that those advocating for systemic change are ginning up support for a radical agenda by manufacturing outrage over nothing, and that when something truly bad happens—like the murder of George Floyd—justice is served. Just last week, Pirro said of 13-year-old Adam Toledo, who was killed by a Chicago police officer last month, “He is a criminal. This is a war. This is not the time to feel sorry for anybody.” On Tuesday, just after Pirro reassured Fox News viewers that “the American justice system works,” she suggested that Chauvin’s conviction has made protest superfluous. “For all those people that want to burn down streets, just let the courts do its job,” she said.

Anyone invested in the “few bad apples” theory of why U.S. police kill about 1,000 people each year couldn’t ask for a better man to make an example of than Derek Chauvin. Last summer, as Floyd’s murder prompted weeks of protests and violent police crackdowns on demonstrators, I interviewed several current and former police officers from all over the country about Floyd’s murder. Not only did every single one of them tell me that Chauvin was clearly in the wrong, but they also said they didn’t know any cops who’d defend him. “I do think Chauvin should be charged with murder, and everyone I’ve talked to agrees,” said Maurice Henry, a patrol officer in Kansas.