Author Topic: JUCO Football  (Read 7833 times)

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Offline Kid In the Hall

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2017, 04:52:44 PM »
The other piece of this is that the Kansas JUCOs started a scheduling agreement with the Iowa JUCOs a few years ago (technically, they aren't in the conference, but their schedules are basically all Kansas JUCOs plus the Iowa JUCOs). The Iowa JUCOs didn't have the restrictions the Kansas JUCOs had (no out-of-state roster limits, full scholarships, etc. - the Kansas JUCOs only covered tuition/books, not room/board, which was paid out-of-pocket by the student-athletes).

So, when the Jake Waters-led upstart program Iowa Western won the national title in 2012 (only a few years after creating the program), it spooked some of the Kansas coaches. It's not terribly crazy for them to think it's not fair that three schools that are practically conference members have a completely different set of rules.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2017, 08:56:31 PM »
Thanks for the clarification guys. Four Kansas kids at GCCC makes me sad. The Jayhawk Conference have won three of the last 10 national championships, I don't think another conference has more in that time frame. So I'm perplexed as to why the schools pressured this change.

This rule is bad for Kansas high school kids and the D1 and D2 schools in the state. It's gonna be great for the NAIA schools in the state though.

The Washburn/Emporia St/Pitt St/Fort Hays round robin is fun as hell, with all of them playing each other & trying to knock off Northwest Missouri St.  I'm not sure about the caliber of KS kids this will affect, but I'd think it will only help those schools as well.

Tom, if your kid didn't have the opportunity to go to Highland then FCS, would he have gone D2 out of HS?

It will hurt the Kansas D2s the same way it will hurt the Kansas D1s. Less Kansas kids playing in the KJCCC, means less Kansas kids transferring to D2s when they are done. I'm certain we'll see a drop in transfers from Kansas community colleges to in-state D2 schools.

Offline KST8FAN

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2017, 11:06:10 AM »
All of the spreadsheet talk triggered my memory that I in fact had did a spreadsheet of the Juco rosters when my son was recruited and played at Highland.

If my computer skills were better I am sure I could insert this table but a picture will have to suffice.

Tom

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Offline KST8FAN

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2017, 11:32:41 AM »
The other piece of this is that the Kansas JUCOs started a scheduling agreement with the Iowa JUCOs a few years ago (technically, they aren't in the conference, but their schedules are basically all Kansas JUCOs plus the Iowa JUCOs). The Iowa JUCOs didn't have the restrictions the Kansas JUCOs had (no out-of-state roster limits, full scholarships, etc. - the Kansas JUCOs only covered tuition/books, not room/board, which was paid out-of-pocket by the student-athletes).

So, when the Jake Waters-led upstart program Iowa Western won the national title in 2012 (only a few years after creating the program), it spooked some of the Kansas coaches. It's not terribly crazy for them to think it's not fair that three schools that are practically conference members have a completely different set of rules.

The agreement with the ICCAC (Iowa Western, Ellsworth, Central Iowa) started in 2014.  That coincided with KJCCC dropping their 4 team playoff (aka Region VI Juco playoffs) and expiration of agreements to play teams from Southwestern (Texas) JuCo Conference (ie- Blinn, NEO, Navarro).  It helped to solidify a 10 game schedule for the Jayhawk teams (7 KJCCC, 3 ICCAC) with one open date to fill. 

I think the Jayhawk teams played 1 SWJC team each year and backfilled with various DII JVs, etc.  There was concern prior to the ICCAC agreement that Jayhawk teams were falling behind (exceptions of course, Butler/Hutch) competing with the Texas JuCos.  The games against various DII JV and several "Prep" schools were not very competitive (Jayhawk teams won these easily by lopsided scores) and hurt the leagues perception as well.

Tom


Offline MakeItRain

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2017, 11:42:23 AM »
All of the spreadsheet talk triggered my memory that I in fact had did a spreadsheet of the Juco rosters when my son was recruited and played at Highland.

If my computer skills were better I am sure I could insert this table but a picture will have to suffice.

Tom

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That's awesome, thanks Tom. Those percentages are in line with what I think community colleges in their respective states should have. Community colleges should be about providing opportunities for students and student athletes within the respective communities. What should have happened is that the NJCAA should have enacted in state minimums for all community college's, nationwide. This new rule is so far outside of the mission of what community colleges are it's laughable, and outside of attempting to win football games there's no credible justification for it.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2017, 11:48:51 AM »
That's awesome, thanks Tom. Those percentages are in line with what I think community colleges in their respective states should have. Community colleges should be about providing opportunities for students and student athletes within the respective communities. What should have happened is that the NJCAA should have enacted in state minimums for all community college's, nationwide. This new rule is so far outside of the mission of what community colleges are it's laughable, and outside of attempting to win football games there's no credible justification for it.

I agree 100%.

Offline KST8FAN

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2017, 12:24:55 PM »
The Washburn/Emporia St/Pitt St/Fort Hays round robin is fun as hell, with all of them playing each other & trying to knock off Northwest Missouri St.  I'm not sure about the caliber of KS kids this will affect, but I'd think it will only help those schools as well.

Tom, if your kid didn't have the opportunity to go to Highland then FCS, would he have gone D2 out of HS?

My son out of HS:
6'5-300 playing C, G, T in high school
2nd team Sunflower League player on an 0-9 football team
He was qualified academically
He was not any recruiting radars with any star rankings

He had some lite interest from D II's (visited NWMSU, camped and visited Emporia State{my sister is a graduate}), but on signing day his options were the following:

Hutch JuCo
Ft Scott JuCo
Highland JuCo
Emporia State walk on (coach said they could not match JuCo scholarship, but he could compete and pick up scholarship money based on performance in the spring)

Long story short if the JuCo option was not available to him he probably ends up as a walkon at Emporia State giving his aunt a fanningbrag.

The whole in state/out state dynamic became very apparent during recruiting.  The in state OL players were a premium commodity because that meant a team could use the out state positions for skill players. The fact he had no academic/discipline issues raised his stock too.

He started two years at Highland (he was a captain and HM All-Conference as a sophomore).  He was eligible to transfer at semester (Dec 14), and he had several nice D2 offers.  K-State offered him a walk on opportunity after a couple of phone calls and a visit.  OT:  He got a speeding ticket driving back from his visit to Manhattan (hanging with Collin Klein and BJ Finney will get a guy pumped up I guess).

After spring 15 semester he assessed where he stood, and he had the opportunity to transfer to Western Illinois with a scholarship.  He played there two years and graduated in four years.  He got some decent playing time in the best FCS league in the country including 2-3 starts his senior year.  Probably his only regret is not taking a red shirt year during his career.

The D2 offers, K-State experience, and FCS opportunity don't happen without the JuCo opportunity IMHO.

Sorry to fanningbrag too, but I would say the JuCo option offered him the ability to develop and play at his highest level which might not have happened otherwise.

Tom

Offline KST8FAN

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2017, 01:21:59 PM »
This year's KJCCC rosters by school and player state.   I summarized by P5 conference except for Kansas, Big12, and border states.
Top 10 by state
KS 104
FL 103
GA 88
AL 41
LA 36
TX 34
SC 31
TN 25
MO 25
NC 18

So with in state requirement gone KS players dropped from approximately 300 to 100.


Tom



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« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 01:27:45 PM by KST8FAN »

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2017, 01:33:46 PM »
Tom and has pivot tables have become my new favorite poster.
I got a guy on the other line about some white walls

Offline IPA4Me

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2017, 02:17:23 PM »
I chuckled at the #fanningbrag mentions.

Interesting thread guys. Never really gave the JuCo stuff much thought. Interesting to see how it works for players/families as well as feeding universities.

Offline KST8FAN

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2017, 03:05:51 PM »
Tom and has pivot tables have become my new favorite poster.
Somebody coach me up... how do I just cut and paste these into a thread?

Tom

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2017, 03:08:08 PM »
Thanks again Tom, as usual you're killing it in this thread. There are so many stories like your son's story, those kids are going to be impacted because a couple of these Kansas coaches are treating community college football like it's the FBS power five. I went to GCCC, I was there with Darnell McDonald, Jeff Kelly, and Frank Murphy. Those were great players and really good dudes, but guys like that wasn't what community college football was all about. There was this dude, Josh Sullivan. He was from Douglas, I believe. Very undersized but he got a shot a GCCC, he ended up at K-State after GCCC, I believe he walked on for the 1996 season. Dude ended up marrying the best volleyball player in K-State history. He would not have had any of that if coaches then had the opportunity to eschew Kansas kids for some guy from Tennessee who doesn't give a damn about some school in a small Kansas town with an enrollment of 2000 students. This whole thing sucks.

Also looking at Tom's spreadsheet, looks as if Sims border state example was also total bull crap.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2017, 03:08:48 PM »
Tom and has pivot tables have become my new favorite poster.
Somebody coach me up... how do I just cut and paste these into a thread?

Tom

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I wouldn't worry about it, we're getting the information.

Offline libstradamus

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2017, 03:22:03 PM »
My bud played de at highland Tom, and I went there for a year.  :cheers:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline KST8FAN

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2017, 03:42:37 PM »
My bud played de at highland Tom, and I went there for a year.  :cheers:
What years?

Tom

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Offline libstradamus

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2017, 03:48:11 PM »
Long time ago Tom, I watched 9/11 happen while I was there
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Katdaddy

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2017, 06:51:53 PM »
Long time ago Tom, I watched 9/11 happen while I was there
Who were the QBs back then?
Hot time in Kat town tonight.

Offline AtlantaWildcat

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2017, 11:11:40 AM »
Thanks for the clarification guys. Four Kansas kids at GCCC makes me sad. The Jayhawk Conference have won three of the last 10 national championships, I don't think another conference has more in that time frame. So I'm perplexed as to why the schools pressured this change.

This rule is bad for Kansas high school kids and the D1 and D2 schools in the state. It's gonna be great for the NAIA schools in the state though.

The Garden City coach, has complained at every school he has coached at to get the scholarship limitations removed. He started the whole thing once he got to Garden City because he knew he couldn't win or recruit guys to come out there. Shockingly the win the Natty the following year. Its a terrible thing for Kansas kids who often get overlooked. D2's should be licking their chops.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2017, 11:21:19 AM »
It will be interesting to see how many more Kansas kids the D2 schools try to get. Washburn, Hays, and Emporia already have over 60 Kansas kids on their rosters each. Pitt St has 45. Plus each school has another 5-7 KC Mo kids.

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2017, 11:35:54 AM »
It will be interesting to see how many more Kansas kids the D2 schools try to get. Washburn, Hays, and Emporia already have over 60 Kansas kids on their rosters each. Pitt St has 45. Plus each school has another 5-7 KC Mo kids.

Hays has changed quite a bit since I was there.  Them having 60 KS kids is much different from the early 2000s.  I was there when they were in the RMAC with a conference mandated 28 scholarship limit vs the D2 35 limit.  The coach then hit the Killeen/Ft. Hood area & guys kicked off FCS teams hard.  They struggled, then one of those FCS run-offs (with a couple other guys) beat a guy to death in the parking lot just outside Mrs. Hamburg's front door.  A couple of the Killeen guys were decent, but found bringing good weed to western KS was a highly profitable business.  The football team was not good.

Pitt recruits the Tulsa area hard for students.  There has to be 15 billboards for Pitt State on the interstates/expressways promoting in-state tuition rates for qualified students.  I've heard a lot of their coaches have been working hard with their general student recruiting to get into my suburb's HS to make themselves the preferred non-OU/OSU/TU option.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 11:39:32 AM by TheHamburglar »
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Offline cas4ksu

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2017, 12:37:28 PM »
Independence (home of Season 3 of Last Chance U) got beat by 40 by Iowa Western this weekend.

Offline scottwildcat

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2017, 01:08:59 PM »
it will be interesting to see how Season 3 of Last Chance U turns out. Going from one of the better programs to a mediocre to bad program.

Offline KST8FAN

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2017, 05:41:57 PM »
Kansas kid, Highland JUCO, kicking for Cincinnati today at the Big House.


Tom

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Offline WildcatPower

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2017, 11:08:13 PM »
Long time ago Tom, I watched 9/11 happen while I was there
Who were the QBs back then?

Highland CC graduate here, Class of 2001.

1999 - Brian Caler
2000 - Jeff Abbott.

Offline KST8FAN

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Re: JUCO Football
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2017, 10:59:00 AM »
https://www.rezolutionprepacademy.net

Hutch beat this outfit 91-0 yesterday.


Tom

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