Author Topic: Athletes Forcing Change  (Read 13129 times)

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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #550 on: July 09, 2020, 03:11:41 PM »
People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.

So MIR i'm sincerely asking you this in good faith, but what do you think should be done? What does justice being done on Jaden look like?

He should have been expelled.

My biggest problem with reducing this to one tweet is that, let's say it wasn't Jaden that tweeted that George Floyd tweet, but it was our buddy Greg. Does this shake out the way that it did? Does it get immediate traction? Does he double down? Does he ask his followers to retaliate against the athletes protesting or twitter accounts who lashed out at him for the tweet? Kansas State University has 22,000 students, what are the odds that Jaden is the only one of them that has either tweeted or retweeted something distasteful about BLM, or George Floyd, or Breonna Taylor, or any other black person killed by the police? Of course not, I'm sure It has happened since. The talking point that the university should acted on that tweet alone is incredibly frustrating, and even more frustrating that so many people are falling for this obvious shell game.

Exactly what I said on KSO awhile back.

Good to see you channeling my brilliance.


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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #551 on: July 09, 2020, 03:17:07 PM »
People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.

So MIR i'm sincerely asking you this in good faith, but what do you think should be done? What does justice being done on Jaden look like?

He should have been expelled.

My biggest problem with reducing this to one tweet is that, let's say it wasn't Jaden that tweeted that George Floyd tweet, but it was our buddy Greg. Does this shake out the way that it did? Does it get immediate traction? Does he double down? Does he ask his followers to retaliate against the athletes protesting or twitter accounts who lashed out at him for the tweet? Kansas State University has 22,000 students, what are the odds that Jaden is the only one of them that has either tweeted or retweeted something distasteful about BLM, or George Floyd, or Breonna Taylor, or any other black person killed by the police? Of course not, I'm sure It has happened since. The talking point that the university should acted on that tweet alone is incredibly frustrating, and even more frustrating that so many people are falling for this obvious shell game.
To be fair, people in this thread were suggesting that he ought to be given the boot based on the tweet. 

I don't really follow the non-bolded part of your post.  Obviously if Greg made the tweet it wouldn't gain as much traction or elicit the same response, largely because Greg doesn't have the notoriety on campus that McNeil has, and also doesn't have the already established reputation McNeil has.  We definitely agree there.  Help me get to the point you're making.  Is it the established pattern of McNeil's words and associations that warrant him being expelled?


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline Spracne

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #552 on: July 09, 2020, 03:52:34 PM »
Looking beyond The Tweet to the totality of McNeil's misdeeds, as summarized by Trim's article:

Quote
Among the significant new findings from McNeil’s brief activist history:

Jaden McNeil has been involved with, not two, but four different participants in the murderous white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

White nationalists provided even more guidance to McNeil in the formation of America First Students at Kansas State University than IREHR originally reported.

McNeil was warned by conservative peers about aligning with a “Nazi” like Nick Fuentes, but chose to ignore the warnings.

McNeil’s attendance at the Groyper Leadership Summit in December 2019, an event organized by white nationalists Nick Fuentes and Patrick Casey, has been further confirmed. McNeil is also scheduled to attend the white nationalist-organized America First Political Action Conference on February 28.

McNeil has amplified white nationalists on social media, repeatedly sharing white nationalist content to his followers.

McNeil interned with a “politically incorrect” podcast that was promoted by the founder of the Proud Boys. He also posted photos of himself flashing the “OK” hand signal at a political rally, a sign popularized by the Proud Boys, and designated a racist symbol by the Anti-Defamation League.

McNeil made crude homophobic comments, calling the LGBTQ+ community “degenerates” and using an anti-LGBTQ+ slur during an interview. He has also expressed hostility towards diversity and immigrants.

Replace "white nationalist" with "socialist" and you have a starkly similar list of offenses that were initially punishable in the early 20th century but eventually lead to the development of the First Amendment as we know it today. Replace "socialist" with "terrorist" and you see how these battles are playing out in the 21st century.

Why do we as a society insist on protecting shitheads like Jaden? To protect shitheads like you (plural) and me. Your rights are my rights. That is why it is imperative that we protect the ability of others to hold and profess ideas that we hate; sometimes, we might hold and profess ideas that others hate.

Offline catastrophe

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Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #553 on: July 09, 2020, 07:13:04 PM »
People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.

So MIR i'm sincerely asking you this in good faith, but what do you think should be done? What does justice being done on Jaden look like?

He should have been expelled.

My biggest problem with reducing this to one tweet is that, let's say it wasn't Jaden that tweeted that George Floyd tweet, but it was our buddy Greg. Does this shake out the way that it did? Does it get immediate traction? Does he double down? Does he ask his followers to retaliate against the athletes protesting or twitter accounts who lashed out at him for the tweet? Kansas State University has 22,000 students, what are the odds that Jaden is the only one of them that has either tweeted or retweeted something distasteful about BLM, or George Floyd, or Breonna Taylor, or any other black person killed by the police? Of course not, I'm sure It has happened since. The talking point that the university should acted on that tweet alone is incredibly frustrating, and even more frustrating that so many people are falling for this obvious shell game.
I guess you don’t remember Kool Kats Klub girl.  To be fair, I wouldn’t expect you to since she had no sort of reputation or notoriety until she shared one bad racist joke. But rest assured, she was skewered even when there weren’t widespread protests about race going on in the background.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #554 on: July 09, 2020, 07:25:31 PM »
Were the socialists of earlier times celebrating the deaths of others based on race, gender, sexual orientation, or anything else that is part of the basic identity of those around them?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 08:47:17 AM by Rage Against the McKee »

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #555 on: July 09, 2020, 07:28:21 PM »
People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.

So MIR i'm sincerely asking you this in good faith, but what do you think should be done? What does justice being done on Jaden look like?

He should have been expelled.

My biggest problem with reducing this to one tweet is that, let's say it wasn't Jaden that tweeted that George Floyd tweet, but it was our buddy Greg. Does this shake out the way that it did? Does it get immediate traction? Does he double down? Does he ask his followers to retaliate against the athletes protesting or twitter accounts who lashed out at him for the tweet? Kansas State University has 22,000 students, what are the odds that Jaden is the only one of them that has either tweeted or retweeted something distasteful about BLM, or George Floyd, or Breonna Taylor, or any other black person killed by the police? Of course not, I'm sure It has happened since. The talking point that the university should acted on that tweet alone is incredibly frustrating, and even more frustrating that so many people are falling for this obvious shell game.
I guess you don’t remember Kool Kats Klub girl.  To be fair, I wouldn’t expect you to since she had no sort of reputation or notoriety until she shared one bad racist joke. But rest assured, she was skewered even when there weren’t widespread protests about race going on in the background.
I mean look at the similarities here: https://www.kstatecollegian.com/2017/10/17/students-social-media-post-referencing-kkk-sparks-online-outrage/

I’d post gems if I weren’t on a phone. But there is ample evidence to believe this current situation is, indeed, mostly about one tweet.

Offline pissclams

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #556 on: July 09, 2020, 09:48:55 PM »
do you guys ever say, "pass it, don't harass it"? 


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #557 on: July 09, 2020, 10:24:55 PM »
We're the socialists of earlier times celebrating the deaths of others based on race, gender, sexual orientation, or anything else that is part of the basic identity of those around them?

How do you define socialists?

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #558 on: July 10, 2020, 09:19:02 PM »
People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.

So MIR i'm sincerely asking you this in good faith, but what do you think should be done? What does justice being done on Jaden look like?

He should have been expelled.

My biggest problem with reducing this to one tweet is that, let's say it wasn't Jaden that tweeted that George Floyd tweet, but it was our buddy Greg. Does this shake out the way that it did? Does it get immediate traction? Does he double down? Does he ask his followers to retaliate against the athletes protesting or twitter accounts who lashed out at him for the tweet? Kansas State University has 22,000 students, what are the odds that Jaden is the only one of them that has either tweeted or retweeted something distasteful about BLM, or George Floyd, or Breonna Taylor, or any other black person killed by the police? Of course not, I'm sure It has happened since. The talking point that the university should acted on that tweet alone is incredibly frustrating, and even more frustrating that so many people are falling for this obvious shell game.
To be fair, people in this thread were suggesting that he ought to be given the boot based on the tweet. 

I don't really follow the non-bolded part of your post.  Obviously if Greg made the tweet it wouldn't gain as much traction or elicit the same response, largely because Greg doesn't have the notoriety on campus that McNeil has, and also doesn't have the already established reputation McNeil has.  We definitely agree there.  Help me get to the point you're making.  Is it the established pattern of McNeil's words and associations that warrant him being expelled?

Yeah, like I said several times, it isn't about a tweet it's about a pattern of behavior that's surely to escalate.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #559 on: July 10, 2020, 09:28:21 PM »
People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.

So MIR i'm sincerely asking you this in good faith, but what do you think should be done? What does justice being done on Jaden look like?

He should have been expelled.

My biggest problem with reducing this to one tweet is that, let's say it wasn't Jaden that tweeted that George Floyd tweet, but it was our buddy Greg. Does this shake out the way that it did? Does it get immediate traction? Does he double down? Does he ask his followers to retaliate against the athletes protesting or twitter accounts who lashed out at him for the tweet? Kansas State University has 22,000 students, what are the odds that Jaden is the only one of them that has either tweeted or retweeted something distasteful about BLM, or George Floyd, or Breonna Taylor, or any other black person killed by the police? Of course not, I'm sure It has happened since. The talking point that the university should acted on that tweet alone is incredibly frustrating, and even more frustrating that so many people are falling for this obvious shell game.
I guess you don’t remember Kool Kats Klub girl.  To be fair, I wouldn’t expect you to since she had no sort of reputation or notoriety until she shared one bad racist joke. But rest assured, she was skewered even when there weren’t widespread protests about race going on in the background.

Yes, I remember. It affirms that the outcry about Jaden isn't about one tweet or one off color picture. She was even convinced not to quit school. If jaden threatened to quit the administration would open Anderson Hall up at 3:30 AM on a Sunday to expunge his record.

This dude is a disease, the university found the herpes after a particularly bad flare up and decided to let it play itself out without taking penicillin.

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #560 on: July 10, 2020, 09:31:18 PM »
do you guys ever say, "pass it, don't harass it"?

About a blunt? Probably at least once.
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.


Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #561 on: July 10, 2020, 09:36:11 PM »
Were the socialists of earlier times celebrating the deaths of others based on race, gender, sexual orientation, or anything else that is part of the basic identity of those around them?

I honestly didn't get spracne's point, but he certainty wasn't comparing socialism to white nationalism, that would be astronomically absurd.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #562 on: July 10, 2020, 09:48:30 PM »

Yes, I remember. It affirms that the outcry about Jaden isn't about one tweet or one off color picture. She was even convinced not to quit school. If jaden threatened to quit the administration would open Anderson Hall up at 3:30 AM on a Sunday to expunge his record.

This dude is a disease, the university found the herpes after a particularly bad flare up and decided to let it play itself out without taking penicillin.

It really doesn’t reaffirm your point. That girl caught the same flack despite immediately and repeatedly apologizing, and folks were voicing the same concerns about the comfort level of minorities at KSU. The most obvious distinction is the fact that Jaden’s tweet came in the midst (if not the apex) of a worldwide reform movement, which prompted a much stronger push against the university as well as a much stronger response.

Looking back at KKK girl, I feel like Jaden has actually been treated better so far simply because he’s viewed as a threat.

Conservatives and progressives have dug into a tribal culture where you’re much more likely to get railroaded if you don’t have allies.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #563 on: July 10, 2020, 09:50:38 PM »

Yes, I remember. It affirms that the outcry about Jaden isn't about one tweet or one off color picture. She was even convinced not to quit school. If jaden threatened to quit the administration would open Anderson Hall up at 3:30 AM on a Sunday to expunge his record.

This dude is a disease, the university found the herpes after a particularly bad flare up and decided to let it play itself out without taking penicillin.

It really doesn’t reaffirm your point. That girl caught the same flack despite immediately and repeatedly apologizing, and folks were voicing the same concerns about the comfort level of minorities at KSU. The most obvious distinction is the fact that Jaden’s tweet came in the midst (if not the apex) of a worldwide reform movement, which prompted a much stronger push against the university as well as a much stronger response.

Looking back at KKK girl, I feel like Jaden has actually been treated better so far simply because he’s viewed as a threat.

Conservatives and progressives have dug into a tribal culture where you’re much more likely to get railroaded if you don’t have allies.

You missed the point, that's okay, it was a long post. I have summarized it in one sentence about a dozen times in this thread, but whatever.

You can't possibly think that "Jaden has actually been treated better." The guy had an entire university athletic department protesting his existence, KKK girl had some people mad on twitter for a weekend.

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #564 on: July 10, 2020, 09:59:12 PM »
While the public (social media) backlash may have been similar, the difference in action from the administration in the two cases is noteworthy.

If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.


Offline catastrophe

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #565 on: July 10, 2020, 10:14:22 PM »

Yes, I remember. It affirms that the outcry about Jaden isn't about one tweet or one off color picture. She was even convinced not to quit school. If jaden threatened to quit the administration would open Anderson Hall up at 3:30 AM on a Sunday to expunge his record.

This dude is a disease, the university found the herpes after a particularly bad flare up and decided to let it play itself out without taking penicillin.

It really doesn’t reaffirm your point. That girl caught the same flack despite immediately and repeatedly apologizing, and folks were voicing the same concerns about the comfort level of minorities at KSU. The most obvious distinction is the fact that Jaden’s tweet came in the midst (if not the apex) of a worldwide reform movement, which prompted a much stronger push against the university as well as a much stronger response.

Looking back at KKK girl, I feel like Jaden has actually been treated better so far simply because he’s viewed as a threat.

Conservatives and progressives have dug into a tribal culture where you’re much more likely to get railroaded if you don’t have allies.

You missed the point, that's okay, it was a long post. I have summarized it in one sentence about a dozen times in this thread, but whatever.

You can't possibly think that "Jaden has actually been treated better." The guy had an entire university athletic department protesting his existence, KKK girl had some people mad on twitter for a weekend.
*Protesting his existence for a few days.

The AD is now ok with him staying as a student but you’re still calling for his head.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #566 on: July 10, 2020, 10:35:22 PM »
While the public (social media) backlash may have been similar, the difference in action from the administration in the two cases is noteworthy.

The social media backlash wasn't similar either. The engagement of his each of his tweets are in the thousands. The George Floyd tweet had well over 20,000 replies before it was taken down.

BTW, he's still antagonizing the university and students on the campus and bringing his lunatic followers right along with them. These are the same people who sent a noose tweet to Chrisianna Carr. There is no way this ends well, Dick Myers will have the inevitable unfortunate incident on his hands, he'll get to retire and no one will care.




Also this dude really hates the cheeto. Also TIL jaden has me blocked, I had to use a burner account to see his tweets.

Offline kashi1965

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #567 on: July 11, 2020, 12:57:27 PM »
While the public (social media) backlash may have been similar, the difference in action from the administration in the two cases is noteworthy.

The social media backlash wasn't similar either. The engagement of his each of his tweets are in the thousands. The George Floyd tweet had well over 20,000 replies before it was taken down.

BTW, he's still antagonizing the university and students on the campus and bringing his lunatic followers right along with them. These are the same people who sent a noose tweet to Chrisianna Carr. There is no way this ends well, Dick Myers will have the inevitable unfortunate incident on his hands, he'll get to retire and no one will care.




Also this dude really hates the cheeto. Also TIL jaden has me blocked, I had to use a burner account to see his tweets.
just checked his twitter account. i'm not sure how anyone couldn't agree he is antagonizing a lot of people. it may not be all directed at ksu students but he does respond to KSU related accounts among others.  and as stated previously when he responds to someone all his rodents follow up with subsequent harassment as well. HE's a piece of crap and we need to find a way to get rid of him

Offline BIG APPLE CAT

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #568 on: July 11, 2020, 11:40:44 PM »
Our sister school Harvard just unaccepted 10 students for being pieces of crap on social media

Offline steve dave

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #569 on: July 12, 2020, 06:45:21 AM »
Nice


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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #570 on: July 12, 2020, 11:39:33 AM »

Racism is actually illegal in England, novel concept, huh. In America you're allowed to grow your racist platform, because some nebulous words written by slave owners 230 years ago.


Offline catastrophe

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #571 on: July 12, 2020, 01:10:41 PM »
I mean that sure seems actionable in the States as well.

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #572 on: July 12, 2020, 01:18:29 PM »
I mean that sure seems actionable in the States as well.
Maybe for the threatening to show up but not anything else.

And arresting a 12 year old seems a tad extreme.

Offline Spracne

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Re: Athletes Forcing Change
« Reply #573 on: July 12, 2020, 02:45:59 PM »

Racism is actually illegal in England, novel concept, huh. In America you're allowed to grow your racist platform, because some nebulous words written by slave owners 230 years ago.


Without addressing this particular instance of racism and how it might hypothetically play out in America, you are correct that the First Amendment is indeed exceptional among Western democracies. There's even a scholarly term for this phenomenon--First Amendment Exceptionalism. Here's a good comparative constitutional law article outlining the subject: https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1360&context=mlr