StL County Cops Shoot Teen

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

None in the back which at least changes the running away story.  Still looks like overkill for someone unarmed

It's not overkill if a 6'4", 250lb+ dude that just attacked you is running towards you.

wut?

[gatoveintisiet]

It sure didn't take long for some to make excuses as to why this kid was shot.
"Saint Louis area cop from police department with a documented history of racism shoots and kills unarmed black teen."
"Well I heard that the so called teen was a really big man and someone said he was standing in the way of the cop car trying to go somewhere?"
"Well couldn't the cop have used a tazer or pepper spray or something?"
"Didn't you hear me say he was a big black man, what if the tazer didn't work, what if he had a gun? The officer couldn't risk any of that, that boy was dangerous. Oh did I mention they are looting now, they never learn."

I didn't make any of those excuses and, in fact, said that the initial facts do not justify the shooting. I simply pointed out that some (including you, apparently) are ignoring the fact that the guy put himself in a very bad situation by attacking a cop.

Eye witnesses said he didn't attack anyone and was shot in the back, we're ignoring that?

I'm not ignoring that he may have been shot in the back. That's what I've read, too, and that's why I question whether the shooting was justified. All the media reports I've read also indicate that Brown attacked the officer. I'm skeptical that the officer just decided to gun down a black guy totally unprovoked. You should be, too.

 

[kim carnes]

None in the back which at least changes the running away story.  Still looks like overkill for someone unarmed

It's not overkill if a 6'4", 250lb+ dude that just attacked you is running towards you.

maybe a little bit considering he is unarmed.

[gatoveintisiet]

A thought just occurred to me. The cops in this town claim that Brown tried to fight officer while he sat in the car and tried to take his gun. Was this cop wearing his gun on his head, shoulder, or his chest? How in the hell can Brown attempt to take his gun while the cop was in the car?

I'm hoping that police are trained how to deal with someone trying to grab their holstered weapon and the training is "if the attacker doesnt currently have your weapon, stay in your car and call for back " not "chase that guy down, shoot him in the leg then finish him by emptying your weapon into his back"

   

[gatoveintisiet]

Shouldn't be news to anybody. I was talking about the police state years ago

 

[Dugout DickStone]

K-S-U is party rocking his ass off

He was born for this thread.

Not sure why I keep getting singled out, but thanks?

I think I've been pretty reasonable here. I didn't buy the bullshit "the cop started it" story - I was right. I didn't jump on the "the cop is clearly guilty" train, and it's looking more and more like I was right to not do that either.

Michael Brown is looking worse and worse, and it's lending credence to the cop's apparent story. Brown's actions don't make sense unless he was heavily intoxicated with something. He steals a box of cigars in broad daylight, and then instead if making a quick getaway, he decides to just take a stroll down the middle of the street. And then when a cop tells him to get on the sidewalk, after he's just committed a robbery, he says "nah, I'm almost to where I'm going." And the he decides to attack said cop. Is it that much of a jump from there to believing, as the one witness appears to say, that he first ran and then turned to charge the cop? It's simply bizarre behavior.

If the forensics show he was mostly shot in the back, that's another matter.

How many bullets to the back are you thinking?  Because 1 is too many.

The linked preliminary report did not find a single shot to the back, further supporting the cop's story - and refuting the "he was shot in the back" narrative.

It's starting to look like most of the narrative was wrong, and I guess that should have been expected. Meanwhile the riots and looting continue.

So does the gassing and threats to media.

[ednksu]

Serious:  lots of reports of violence, ambulances needing armed escorts, might be more deaths from this night.

[Dugout DickStone]

K-S-U is party rocking his ass off

He was born for this thread.

Not sure why I keep getting singled out, but thanks?

I think I've been pretty reasonable here. I didn't buy the bullshit "the cop started it" story - I was right. I didn't jump on the "the cop is clearly guilty" train, and it's looking more and more like I was right to not do that either.

Michael Brown is looking worse and worse, and it's lending credence to the cop's apparent story. Brown's actions don't make sense unless he was heavily intoxicated with something. He steals a box of cigars in broad daylight, and then instead if making a quick getaway, he decides to just take a stroll down the middle of the street. And then when a cop tells him to get on the sidewalk, after he's just committed a robbery, he says "nah, I'm almost to where I'm going." And the he decides to attack said cop. Is it that much of a jump from there to believing, as the one witness appears to say, that he first ran and then turned to charge the cop? It's simply bizarre behavior.

If the forensics show he was mostly shot in the back, that's another matter.

How many bullets to the back are you thinking?  Because 1 is too many.

The linked preliminary report did not find a single shot to the back, further supporting the cop's story - and refuting the "he was shot in the back" narrative.

It's starting to look like most of the narrative was wrong, and I guess that should have been expected. Meanwhile the riots and looting continue.

Where is the cop's story you refer to?  Link?

[ednksu]

The conservative treehouse is on the case: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/08/15/exceptional-catch-the-jj-witness-video-eye-witness-audio-of-mike-brown-shooting-sharing-brown-doubled-back-toward-police/

supposedly the cops side

[gatoveintisiet]

Wait - were the ranchers looting and burning stores? I did not hear about that.

I think the Ferguson police need to try their best to not harass, detain, or harm the peaceful protestors - but I suspect that's sometimes easier said than done when the vandals and looters are intermixed among the protests. If I were a protestor, I'd probably go down to city hall and protest there - not in the middle of the violence. Seems like a bad to place to be if I don't want to get tear gassed.

Actually that's what started this whole thing. The police harassing and shooting someone

Sounds like Michael Brown did something really stupid - though that still might not justify him being shot. Again, let's get the facts.

You keep talking about not passing judgment and for all of the facts but you keep finding ways to assign Brown some fault for getting shot despite eye witnesses starting that he didn't do anything wrong.

 

[gatoveintisiet]

thank goodness for ronald johnson.

and anyone who tries to contend that this kid did anything to deserve being shot.. much less killed.. doesn't deserve the right to hold an opinion on anything (not so much as whether a cheeseburger tastes good) until they've taken a cold hard look in the mirror and acknowledged that their fellow human beings are of inestimable worth and are to be treated as such.

 

[ednksu]

Did anyone hear a friend of the cop tell the cops side of the story on some conservative radio show?

http://danaloeschradio.com/alleged-friend-of-officer-darren-wilson-offers-his-side/

oh and this, my bad on the other link

[Dugout DickStone]

The conservative treehouse is on the case: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/08/15/exceptional-catch-the-jj-witness-video-eye-witness-audio-of-mike-brown-shooting-sharing-brown-doubled-back-toward-police/

supposedly the cops side

No, I asked where is the cop's side.  KsuW said there was one that he was aware of.

[Dugout DickStone]

Did anyone hear a friend of the cop tell the cops side of the story on some conservative radio show?

http://danaloeschradio.com/alleged-friend-of-officer-darren-wilson-offers-his-side/

oh and this, my bad on the other link

Is this the cop?

[Trim]

Gas masks are relatively cheap on amazon, but also seem complicated.

i have one.  no canisters tho

What do you recommend?

[ednksu]

 

Did anyone hear a friend of the cop tell the cops side of the story on some conservative radio show?

http://danaloeschradio.com/alleged-friend-of-officer-darren-wilson-offers-his-side/

oh and this, my bad on the other link

Is this the cop?

as it clearly says in the audio it's someone who claims to know the cop and his side.  I havent been issued an official brief on department letter head.

[star seed 7]

Gas masks are relatively cheap on amazon, but also seem complicated.

i have one.  no canisters tho

What do you recommend?

It was a gift, so I don't feel qualified to weigh in

[ednksu]

Cops threatened to shoot a journalist with "this".  No idea if this weapon was a LTL weapon or  firearm.
www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/17/police-threaten-reporters-ferguson_n_5686674.html?&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

[nicname]

Sad thing about the direction of this case is how the average American will not approach the middle ground. If you think it was a justifiable shoot than you're a neo-con bad person who thinks America has no issues with race and SES.  If you think its a bad shoot you're a bleeding heart lib who thinks all blacks are disadvantaged by the system and not responsible for their own actions. For me the biggest things about this story are the heavy handed response by the police in the 48 hours afterwords, the SES issues in urban areas with a high pop % of minorities, and the speed at which all sides allowed this shooting to get out of hand, convicting or exonerating before any official word is out.  Honestly the shooting itself has almost become secondary at this point because of the lack of facts and the other issues which have erupted around it.

Only complete dumbasses think like this. (All of it).

Seems pretty well-reasoned to me. Then again, I'm an admitted dumbass.

[michigancat]

Sad thing about the direction of this case is how the average American will not approach the middle ground. If you think it was a justifiable shoot than you're a neo-con bad person who thinks America has no issues with race and SES.  If you think its a bad shoot you're a bleeding heart lib who thinks all blacks are disadvantaged by the system and not responsible for their own actions. For me the biggest things about this story are the heavy handed response by the police in the 48 hours afterwords, the SES issues in urban areas with a high pop % of minorities, and the speed at which all sides allowed this shooting to get out of hand, convicting or exonerating before any official word is out.  Honestly the shooting itself has almost become secondary at this point because of the lack of facts and the other issues which have erupted around it.

Only complete dumbasses think like this. (All of it).

Seems pretty well-reasoned to me. Then again, I'm an admitted dumbass.

Do you fall neatly into one of the two  camps he created? Do you think cops killing an unarmed teenager isn't a big story? I think you're too smart for that.

[ednksu]

Sad thing about the direction of this case is how the average American will not approach the middle ground. If you think it was a justifiable shoot than you're a neo-con bad person who thinks America has no issues with race and SES.  If you think its a bad shoot you're a bleeding heart lib who thinks all blacks are disadvantaged by the system and not responsible for their own actions. For me the biggest things about this story are the heavy handed response by the police in the 48 hours afterwords, the SES issues in urban areas with a high pop % of minorities, and the speed at which all sides allowed this shooting to get out of hand, convicting or exonerating before any official word is out.  Honestly the shooting itself has almost become secondary at this point because of the lack of facts and the other issues which have erupted around it.

Only complete dumbasses think like this. (All of it).

Seems pretty well-reasoned to me. Then again, I'm an admitted dumbass.

Do you fall neatly into one of the two  camps he created? Do you think cops killing an unarmed teenager isn't a big story? I think you're too smart for that.

You give the average American way to much credit.  And I didnt say it wasn't a big story, I said the resulting debacles have overshadowed it.  Try reading, its fun, idiot.

[ednksu]

Oh Mich if.you dont believe me, msnbc's Goldie Taylor has said the autopsy proves the kid was surrending, Chris Hayes is pushing that only rest will come with charges.  Im sure fox isnt going to show the pics of Brown throwing up the big B, because that wouldnt be fair and balanced.

[nicname]

Sad thing about the direction of this case is how the average American will not approach the middle ground. If you think it was a justifiable shoot than you're a neo-con bad person who thinks America has no issues with race and SES.  If you think its a bad shoot you're a bleeding heart lib who thinks all blacks are disadvantaged by the system and not responsible for their own actions. For me the biggest things about this story are the heavy handed response by the police in the 48 hours afterwords, the SES issues in urban areas with a high pop % of minorities, and the speed at which all sides allowed this shooting to get out of hand, convicting or exonerating before any official word is out.  Honestly the shooting itself has almost become secondary at this point because of the lack of facts and the other issues which have erupted around it.

Only complete dumbasses think like this. (All of it).

Seems pretty well-reasoned to me. Then again, I'm an admitted dumbass.

Do you fall neatly into one of the two  camps he created? Do you think cops killing an unarmed teenager isn't a big story? I think you're too smart for that.

I don't feel I do, but I read it as he was being tongue-in-cheek with the two groups thing. I do think the story is big, but the situation and reality surrounding it are bigger. I would take it a step further and say, though a tragedy, the actually shooting should have always been secondary to the conversation from a big-picture perspective.

[ednksu]

Nic nailed it.  Sory youre associated with one of my posts now.  I was merely trying to get at the way stories like this are glossed over and re-trenched into absurd positions which destroy the value and moral lessons which they contain.  Instead people should be studying the multitude of nuances which push and pull these communities, stories, and narratives.

[nicname]

National Guard being called in.