Author Topic: Carr Bros.  (Read 19470 times)

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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #150 on: July 30, 2014, 09:08:59 AM »
Inmates who have no chance of ever returning to society because of their heinous crimes do not need to be rehabilitated, made comfortable, or educated.


Inmates who probably are going to get out, sure they should be rehabilitated and allow them to get their news by reading a newspaper, not by watching TV. They don't need to be entertained or very comfortable though.

They share the same facility, though. If we are going to have a prison library, then who gives a crap if the lifers pick up Harry Potter and take it back to their cell?

Offline CNS

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #151 on: July 30, 2014, 09:19:01 AM »
Well, because now we have to buy a second copy of Harry Potter so that the guy doing 3 years for beating his wife and kids has something to read and doesn't have his feelings hurt by the murderers always getting all the good books. 

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #152 on: July 30, 2014, 09:20:53 AM »
Well, because now we have to buy a second copy of Harry Potter so that the guy doing 3 years for beating his wife and kids has something to read and doesn't have his feelings hurt by the murderers always getting all the good books.

Or he could just wait for the murderer to finish it first, just like how other public libraries work. He could read Game of Thrones in the meantime.

Offline CNS

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #153 on: July 30, 2014, 09:23:44 AM »
Murderers are super slow readers.  Also, they have plenty of time and don't hurry(unless they are missing Springer too much lately, lol). 

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #154 on: July 30, 2014, 09:30:28 AM »
And in this particular case, why the eff didn't they get separate trials? It's why the executions were overturned and could at least show one brother did more or threatened the other or something.
It was because they didn't separate trials at the sentencing phase, IIRC.

Also, they don't separate trials because they're supposedly way less efficient.  I didn't read the entire 450 page opinion, but in a case like this, where the crimes are so closely linked together, it makes no sense to separate the trials (at least before sentencing -- i've never read about the purpose of having separate sentences).  If they separated the trials, I'd imagine the evidence presented at each trial would be virtually identical.

This is correct. I have admitedly very little criminal law experience, but I'm not seeing the valid distinction between trying two co-defendants together (a phase that's really more fundamental and important than sentencing), and sentencing them together. The Court found no fault with trying them together (how could they?), but overturned the dealth penalty based on the joint sentencing. Seems that this Court, which has not appoved a death sentence in decades, was reaching for any possible reason to set these sentences aside. Smacks of activism.

What I'm not sure on is whether prosecutors can re-seek the dealth penalty in the new sentencing proceedings. If they can, they should.

Update: As I learn more about this, the SC only narrowly voted 4-3 not to overturn all the convictions due to not getting seperate trials. One vote away from brand new trials. Good lord, we have some real lunatics on the KS Supreme Court.

Update 2: I guess the dealth penalty is still possible. "In response to a question, [the prosecutor] told reporters he would seek the death penalty against the brothers a second time."
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 09:39:08 AM by K-S-U-Wildcats! »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #155 on: July 30, 2014, 09:32:09 AM »
The reason is because the guy is in prison for MURDERING and RAPING someone, he should not get the privilege of reading Harry Potter whether it is there or not.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #156 on: July 30, 2014, 09:39:07 AM »
The reason is because the guy is in prison for MURDERING and RAPING someone, he should not get the privilege of reading Harry Potter whether it is there or not.

The guy is already in prison. He's never going to rape or murder anyone (other than maybe his fellow inmates) ever again. He's never leaving that prison. His life sucks. It's still going to suck even if he gets a hot shower and a book to read. You can't make prison life hell for the lifers without making it hell for everyone else as well.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #157 on: July 30, 2014, 09:41:30 AM »
The reason is because the guy is in prison for MURDERING and RAPING someone, he should not get the privilege of reading Harry Potter whether it is there or not.

The guys is already in prison. He's never going to rape or murder anyone (other than maybe his fellow inmates) ever again. He's never leaving that prison. His life sucks. It's still going to suck even if he gets a hot shower and a book to read. You can't make prison life hell for the lifers without making it hell for everyone else as well.

Or, another option, and I'm just spitballing here, is that we could give the victims the justice they deserve and squash these cockroaches. Believe it or not, the purpose of our criminal justice system is not just to remove dangerous people from the streets. The idea of "justice" goes back several thousand years and is sort of a benchmark of civilization.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline CNS

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #158 on: July 30, 2014, 09:43:48 AM »
The reason is because the guy is in prison for MURDERING and RAPING someone, he should not get the privilege of reading Harry Potter whether it is there or not.

The guy is already in prison. He's never going to rape or murder anyone (other than maybe his fellow inmates) ever again. He's never leaving that prison. His life sucks. It's still going to suck even if he gets a hot shower and a book to read. You can't make prison life hell for the lifers without making it hell for everyone else as well.

Seems like the separation of cell blocks and the control over who can go where and when would, in fact, give society the ability to not make it hell for everyone else.  Also, my original posts noted that this was only aimed at violent criminals in max security.  Given that, I would be fine with "life being hell" for anyone who qualified for such a facility.   Hell, being boredom, lack of entertainment, lack of programs designed to rehab and make them better ppl, and lack of really anything stimulating.

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #159 on: July 30, 2014, 09:44:30 AM »
Quote

The guy is already in prison. He's never going to rape or murder anyone (other than maybe his fellow inmates) ever again. He's never leaving that prison. His life sucks. It's still going to suck even if he gets a hot shower and a book to read.

Just because his life is still going to suck does not mean he deserves to get to read a book or watch TV.

Quote
You can't make prison life hell for the lifers without making it hell for everyone else as well.

Might as well kill him then. (Even though this isn't exactly true as CNS just pointed out.)

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #160 on: July 30, 2014, 09:44:45 AM »
The reason is because the guy is in prison for MURDERING and RAPING someone, he should not get the privilege of reading Harry Potter whether it is there or not.

The guys is already in prison. He's never going to rape or murder anyone (other than maybe his fellow inmates) ever again. He's never leaving that prison. His life sucks. It's still going to suck even if he gets a hot shower and a book to read. You can't make prison life hell for the lifers without making it hell for everyone else as well.

Or, another option, and I'm just spitballing here, is that we could give the victims the justice they deserve and squash these cockroaches. Believe it or not, the purpose of our criminal justice system is not just to remove dangerous people from the streets. The idea of "justice" goes back several thousand years and is sort of a benchmark of civilization.

Justice is a very outdated idea, really. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

Offline CNS

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #161 on: July 30, 2014, 09:45:20 AM »
The reason is because the guy is in prison for MURDERING and RAPING someone, he should not get the privilege of reading Harry Potter whether it is there or not.

The guys is already in prison. He's never going to rape or murder anyone (other than maybe his fellow inmates) ever again. He's never leaving that prison. His life sucks. It's still going to suck even if he gets a hot shower and a book to read. You can't make prison life hell for the lifers without making it hell for everyone else as well.

Or, another option, and I'm just spitballing here, is that we could give the victims the justice they deserve and squash these cockroaches. Believe it or not, the purpose of our criminal justice system is not just to remove dangerous people from the streets. The idea of "justice" goes back several thousand years and is sort of a benchmark of civilization.

Justice is a very outdated idea, really. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

Not the ppl that don't go around poking out eyes. 

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #162 on: July 30, 2014, 09:46:09 AM »
The reason is because the guy is in prison for MURDERING and RAPING someone, he should not get the privilege of reading Harry Potter whether it is there or not.

The guy is already in prison. He's never going to rape or murder anyone (other than maybe his fellow inmates) ever again. He's never leaving that prison. His life sucks. It's still going to suck even if he gets a hot shower and a book to read. You can't make prison life hell for the lifers without making it hell for everyone else as well.

my point exactly. let's just kill them and move on.

Offline SdK

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #163 on: July 30, 2014, 09:52:30 AM »
The reason is because the guy is in prison for MURDERING and RAPING someone, he should not get the privilege of reading Harry Potter whether it is there or not.

The guys is already in prison. He's never going to rape or murder anyone (other than maybe his fellow inmates) ever again. He's never leaving that prison. His life sucks. It's still going to suck even if he gets a hot shower and a book to read. You can't make prison life hell for the lifers without making it hell for everyone else as well.

Or, another option, and I'm just spitballing here, is that we could give the victims the justice they deserve and squash these cockroaches. Believe it or not, the purpose of our criminal justice system is not just to remove dangerous people from the streets. The idea of "justice" goes back several thousand years and is sort of a benchmark of civilization.

Justice is a very outdated idea, really. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
Are you trolling?

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #164 on: July 30, 2014, 09:53:56 AM »
Also, do they really have weights in the prison yards for the prisoners to use or is that just in the movies? Because they shouldn't.

Online steve dave

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #165 on: July 30, 2014, 09:55:05 AM »
DNR most of this but I'm against the death penalty solely on the possibility of someone being not guilty. there have been enough instances of people on death row being exonerated that I think the best option is to take it off the table completely.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #166 on: July 30, 2014, 09:56:55 AM »
The reason is because the guy is in prison for MURDERING and RAPING someone, he should not get the privilege of reading Harry Potter whether it is there or not.

The guys is already in prison. He's never going to rape or murder anyone (other than maybe his fellow inmates) ever again. He's never leaving that prison. His life sucks. It's still going to suck even if he gets a hot shower and a book to read. You can't make prison life hell for the lifers without making it hell for everyone else as well.

Or, another option, and I'm just spitballing here, is that we could give the victims the justice they deserve and squash these cockroaches. Believe it or not, the purpose of our criminal justice system is not just to remove dangerous people from the streets. The idea of "justice" goes back several thousand years and is sort of a benchmark of civilization.

Justice is a very outdated idea, really. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
Are you trolling?

No.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #167 on: July 30, 2014, 09:58:26 AM »
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

I suppose that may be true if applied universally for even minor offenses, but I think a rape & execution for a rape & execution would not leave the whole world raped & executed. Agreed? So I feel pretty good about some Old Testament justice in this scenario.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline SdK

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #168 on: July 30, 2014, 10:06:27 AM »
The reason is because the guy is in prison for MURDERING and RAPING someone, he should not get the privilege of reading Harry Potter whether it is there or not.

The guys is already in prison. He's never going to rape or murder anyone (other than maybe his fellow inmates) ever again. He's never leaving that prison. His life sucks. It's still going to suck even if he gets a hot shower and a book to read. You can't make prison life hell for the lifers without making it hell for everyone else as well.

Or, another option, and I'm just spitballing here, is that we could give the victims the justice they deserve and squash these cockroaches. Believe it or not, the purpose of our criminal justice system is not just to remove dangerous people from the streets. The idea of "justice" goes back several thousand years and is sort of a benchmark of civilization.

Justice is a very outdated idea, really. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
Are you trolling?

No.
Keep supporting Hector, I'm #teamAchilles.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #169 on: July 30, 2014, 10:10:10 AM »
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

I suppose that may be true if applied universally for even minor offenses, but I think a rape & execution for a rape & execution would not leave the whole world raped & executed. Agreed? So I feel pretty good about some Old Testament justice in this scenario.

I'm more of a New Testament guy myself. You know, "judge not lest ye be judged," "turn the other cheek," "let he who is without sin cast the first stone," "If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink," etc. The stuff that Christianity is based upon . . .

Offline everyone shut up

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #170 on: July 30, 2014, 10:13:45 AM »
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

I suppose that may be true if applied universally for even minor offenses, but I think a rape & execution for a rape & execution would not leave the whole world raped & executed. Agreed? So I feel pretty good about some Old Testament justice in this scenario.

I'm more of a New Testament guy myself. You know, "judge not lest ye be judged," "turn the other cheek," "let he who is without sin cast the first stone," "If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink," etc. The stuff that Christianity is based upon . . .
so we should forgive them and let them out of prison?  maybe the lone survivor of their brutal rape/torture/execution style killings should be the one who opens the jail cell.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #171 on: July 30, 2014, 10:14:33 AM »
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

I suppose that may be true if applied universally for even minor offenses, but I think a rape & execution for a rape & execution would not leave the whole world raped & executed. Agreed? So I feel pretty good about some Old Testament justice in this scenario.

I'm more of a New Testament guy myself. You know, "judge not lest ye be judged," "turn the other cheek," "let he who is without sin cast the first stone," "If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink," etc. The stuff that Christianity is based upon . . .
so we should forgive them and let them out of prison?  maybe the lone survivor of their brutal rape/torture/execution style killings should be the one who opens the jail cell.

How did you draw that conclusion?

Online steve dave

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #172 on: July 30, 2014, 10:15:16 AM »
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

I suppose that may be true if applied universally for even minor offenses, but I think a rape & execution for a rape & execution would not leave the whole world raped & executed. Agreed? So I feel pretty good about some Old Testament justice in this scenario.

I'm more of a New Testament guy myself. You know, "judge not lest ye be judged," "turn the other cheek," "let he who is without sin cast the first stone," "If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink," etc. The stuff that Christianity is based upon . . .

NOT FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANITY!

Offline Jabeez

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #173 on: July 30, 2014, 10:16:57 AM »
DNR most of this but I'm against the death penalty solely on the possibility of someone being not guilty. there have been enough instances of people on death row being exonerated that I think the best option is to take it off the table completely.
After watching the wire, I can see why there is always a review of the case. Because sometimes police just need to put someone away, police sometimes coerce confessions from the accused or collaborators, or accused are  just straight up catching a body for the boss.   But this might be a case where putting them in gen pop will do the "justice".

Online steve dave

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Re: Carr Bros.
« Reply #174 on: July 30, 2014, 10:20:09 AM »
DNR most of this but I'm against the death penalty solely on the possibility of someone being not guilty. there have been enough instances of people on death row being exonerated that I think the best option is to take it off the table completely.
After watching the wire, I can see why there is always a review of the case. Because sometimes police just need to put someone away, police sometimes coerce confessions from the accused or collaborators, or accused are  just straight up catching a body for the boss.   But this might be a case where putting them in gen pop will do the "justice".

yeah, I'd like to know the general counsel of the NRA's views on the death penalty

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/07/robert-dowlut-nra-murder-mystery