Israel - Hamas peace process

[Pete]

I knew very little about most of those and I think most Americans would agree, which I suspect puts the Palestinian / Israeli situation in a unique category.

[michigancat]

regardless of how you rank them, Gaza belongs on that list

I knew very little about most of those and I think most Americans would agree, which I suspect puts the Palestinian / Israeli situation in a unique category.

yeah we are also supporting the perpetrator in the case of Gaza

[DQ12]

As an American, I shudder to think of how many "genocides" my tax dollars have supported, and how many more I turned a blind eye to over my lifetime. 

I'd argue that the entirely of human history is one of these after the other, over and over again.  Just google extinct civilizations, cultures and religions. I say that to put this in perspective. Is this closer to a singularly horrible human act that will reverberate in history as a cautionary tale, or is it closer to being a crap situation where tough decisions had to be made given the long standing evidenced negative behavior of the parties involved and reasonable expectations for their continued behavior based on that history?

What is going on in Gaza is definitely the worst that I know much about in my lifetime. Maybe Rwanda was worse but I don't know much about it!

Rwanda was on a different scale.

It's hard for me to distinguish between a "war" and a "genocide" in this case.  Probably some ven diagraming going on.

[michigancat]

As an American, I shudder to think of how many "genocides" my tax dollars have supported, and how many more I turned a blind eye to over my lifetime. 

I'd argue that the entirely of human history is one of these after the other, over and over again.  Just google extinct civilizations, cultures and religions. I say that to put this in perspective. Is this closer to a singularly horrible human act that will reverberate in history as a cautionary tale, or is it closer to being a crap situation where tough decisions had to be made given the long standing evidenced negative behavior of the parties involved and reasonable expectations for their continued behavior based on that history?

What is going on in Gaza is definitely the worst that I know much about in my lifetime. Maybe Rwanda was worse but I don't know much about it!

Rwanda was on a different scale.

It's hard for me to distinguish between a "war" and a "genocide" in this case.  Probably some ven diagraming going on.

100% on all of those. I honestly didn't realize how much slaughter Rwanda had.

I think that there are some "genocide-like" things going on in Gaza that would get closer assuming all Gazans have to leave their homes (again) and can never return.

[michigancat]

like when you have to google "is this ACTUALLY a genocide" it might be time to reevaluate what you're doing

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=genocide%20definition,israel%20genocide&hl=en

[wetwillie]

We haven't done anything yet

[Pete]

We haven't done anything yet

Still time for the Arab world to propose something practical and not merely provocative (like the USA).

[DQ12]

like when you have to google "is this ACTUALLY a genocide" it might be time to reevaluate what you're doing

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=genocide%20definition,israel%20genocide&hl=en

Well I think a lot of pro-Palestinian people have declared it a "genocide" from the relatively early days.  So I think it's pretty reasonable to look it up.  Especially when this is considerably different in degree/substance from what people typically think of when they think "genocide" (i.e. systematic execution of non-combatants a la Rwanda/Holocaust, etc.). 

Regardless of whether or not this is actually a "genocide" (which is an interesting question, but besides the point) what's happening is awful and unjust in its disproportionality, if for no other reason.

[michigancat]

like when you have to google "is this ACTUALLY a genocide" it might be time to reevaluate what you're doing

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=genocide%20definition,israel%20genocide&hl=en

Well I think a lot of pro-Palestinian people have declared it a "genocide" from the relatively early days.  So I think it's pretty reasonable to look it up.  Especially when this is considerably different in degree/substance from what people typically think of when they think "genocide" (i.e. systematic execution of non-combatants a la Rwanda/Holocaust, etc.). 

Regardless of whether or not this is actually a "genocide" (which is an interesting question, but besides the point) what's happening is awful and unjust in its disproportionality, if for no other reason.

yeah, your last sentence is really the point I am trying to make

[BIG APPLE CAT]

like when you have to google "is this ACTUALLY a genocide" it might be time to reevaluate what you're doing

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=genocide%20definition,israel%20genocide&hl=en

Well I think a lot of pro-Palestinian people have declared it a "genocide" from the relatively early days.  So I think it's pretty reasonable to look it up.  Especially when this is considerably different in degree/substance from what people typically think of when they think "genocide" (i.e. systematic execution of non-combatants a la Rwanda/Holocaust, etc.). 

Regardless of whether or not this is actually a "genocide" (which is an interesting question, but besides the point) what's happening is awful and unjust in its disproportionality, if for no other reason.

DQ I promise I’m not trying to start crap, I’m asking in good faith:
What aspect of this conflict would make you unsure about whether or not “genocide” is an appropriate description of what’s been happening?

[DQ12]

like when you have to google "is this ACTUALLY a genocide" it might be time to reevaluate what you're doing

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=genocide%20definition,israel%20genocide&hl=en

Well I think a lot of pro-Palestinian people have declared it a "genocide" from the relatively early days.  So I think it's pretty reasonable to look it up.  Especially when this is considerably different in degree/substance from what people typically think of when they think "genocide" (i.e. systematic execution of non-combatants a la Rwanda/Holocaust, etc.). 

Regardless of whether or not this is actually a "genocide" (which is an interesting question, but besides the point) what's happening is awful and unjust in its disproportionality, if for no other reason.

DQ I promise I’m not trying to start crap, I’m asking in good faith:
What aspect of this conflict would make you unsure about whether or not “genocide” is an appropriate description of what’s been happening?

Typically when I think of "genocide" I think of systematic execution of non-combatants, whereas with this, it seems more akin to a "war," where there are armed combatants on both sides.  Like I said, I may have too narrow a view of what "genocide" means. 

[sonofdaxjones]

#blueanongE: Suddenly worried about refugees

[114Hickory]

Regarding the distinction between war and genocide:

"Genocide and war are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, they often coexist.  Moreover, the 1948 United Nations Genocide Convention designates genocide a crime 'whether committed in time of peace or in time of war'” (United Nations, 1948).

We must not let war camouflage genocide.

Regarding the Holocaust as the exemplar for genocide: 

"The prevailing assumption that the Holocaust is the example of genocide still blinds many observers to the fact that genocide occured outside of Europe prior to the twentieth century and continues to occur across the globe through a variety of means."

[LickNeckey]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-sends-tanks-west-bank-rcna193384

[LickNeckey]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hamas-says-israel-evading-ceasefire-obligations-netanyahu-delays-relea-rcna193350

[Pete]

This is exactly what Hamas wants. They performed the humiliating stunts in an effort to incite further violence.

[michigancat]

This is exactly what Hamas wants. They performed the humiliating stunts in an effort to incite further violence.

I think it's exactly what Israel wants

[Pete]

This is exactly what Hamas wants. They performed the humiliating stunts in an effort to incite further violence.

I think it's exactly what Israel wants

Then everyone is about to get what they want, it would seem.

[LickNeckey]

wait what does Hamas want?

[michigancat]

wait what does Hamas want?

they want Israel to bomb them some more, apparently

[LickNeckey]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2025/2/25/live-israel-steps-up-west-bank-attacks-gaza-children-die-of-hypothermia

[LickNeckey]

https://abcnews.go.com/International/israel-conducting-strikes-southern-syria/story?id=119183725

[michigancat]

https://x.com/atrupar/status/1894616074861130182

[LickNeckey]

holy crap

I just came here to post this.

including a golden idol of himself into the image is probably my favorite

[mocat]

I'm old enough to remember the outrage when Barry O wore a tan suit one time