Avian carnage . .

[CNS]

It should stay on the gallon of gas.  Use it as efficiently or inefficiently as you need to.  The more you use, the more you pay.

Then, do what they are already doing and regulate mileage efficiency on new vehicles(including work vehicles). 
 

[Rage Against the McKee]

so what you're saying is that we should spend more subsidies on oil production and R&D because it's the most efficient.

I'm not an economist.  I just think we (the government) shouldn't be too heavy handed with green subsidies to the point where they are artificially equal to or cheaper than fossil fuels for consumers. Even worse would be if we did this suddenly and drastically.  First, that's a huge chunk of change that would come from our taxes (somehow).  Secondly, we would see people ditching fossil fuel for cheaper, green alternatives, which sounds like a good thing until you realize all of the public programs that are funded through taxing energy consumption.  Just the other week Obama was discussing how we needed to raise the gas tax because we don't have enough money to build/maintain roads because people are now driving (gasp) cars that are too efficient.  Same concept if we massively subsidize green energy and make it cheaper than fossil fuels.  Not only are we paying for those subsidies, but there would be a double whammy of having to pay more/new taxes to make up for revenue not collected from fossil fuels.

In the near future, the gas tax is going to be zero and everyone will be taxed based upon mileage. That is a much more fair and reasonable than the gas tax and I'm all for it.

This would cripple business, small and big.  Not going to happen.

How so?

Adding additional tax to any business will change the price structure of their goods/services and reduce the amt of ppl able to pay for them.

You are just replacing one tax with another. The fuel tax is already essentially a mileage-driven tax as it is, only people with highly efficient cars get to damage the roads while paying next to nothing.

[Emo EMAW]

It should stay on the gallon of gas.  Use it as efficiently or inefficiently as you need to.  The more you use, the more you pay.

Then, do what they are already doing and regulate mileage efficiency on new vehicles(including work vehicles).

Assuming it were feasible, some formula of distance*vehicle weight would be most fair as those two are the top contributing factors to wear on a road surface.  I don't really hate the way we do it now, though, as it's pretty fair, simple, and easy to control/monitor.

[EMAWican]

What about my boat, tractors, lawn mowers, chainsaws, and my old lady's gas-powered dildo?

I'll be damned if I'm paying a mileage gas tax for my bonfire gas.  Everyone likes a good roaring bonfire. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

What about my boat, tractors, lawn mowers, chainsaws, and my old lady's gas-powered dildo?

I'll be damned if I'm paying a mileage gas tax for my bonfire gas.  Everyone likes a good roaring bonfire.

The mileage tax would make all of that crap tax-free.

[CNS]

High efficient vehicles are like that for several reasons, one of which is weight.  They aren't equally damaging the drive surfaces compared to non-efficient vehicles.

Also, if you want to worry about road damage, then they need to address how they treat the roads in cold conditions. 

[sonofdaxjones]

BTW the 700K birds a year is considered by environmental groups to be way low, they believe the number is much higher and their biggest concern is birds-of-prey who like to soar the skies in areas where these inefficient "green" energy platforms are being built looking for prey.

Pointing to other calamities or the predation by the overpopulation of domestic felines is immaterial to the discussion.

[Cire]

since birds are really a non issue in all of this.

we should throw everything into American companies that could turn us into the middle East of green energy.

[CNS]

Sounds like we need to somehow alter the turbines to make the rodents and snakes uncomfortable too.  No prey = no predator.

Boom! Problem solved!

[CNS]

since birds are really a non issue in all of this.

we should throw everything into American companies that could turn us into the middle East of green energy.

Natural Gas.  We are supposedly the Saudis of Nat Gas. 

A good first move may be converting vehicles and what not to run on it rather than oil.

[Rage Against the McKee]

High efficient vehicles are like that for several reasons, one of which is weight.  They aren't equally damaging the drive surfaces compared to non-efficient vehicles.

Also, if you want to worry about road damage, then they need to address how they treat the roads in cold conditions.

If you are worried about damaging small and large businesses, then they don't need to address that at all. Roads are expensive to maintain. It's perfectly fair that the people who drive the most miles on them should pay the most taxes. Trucks and semis should pay a higher tax per mile than small cars. You shouldn't get to use the highway for free just because you car doesn't run on gasoline, though.

[Cire]

since birds are really a non issue in all of this.

we should throw everything into American companies that could turn us into the middle East of green energy.

Natural Gas.  We are supposedly the Saudis of Nat Gas. 

A good first move may be converting vehicles and what not to run on it rather than oil.

Yeah, we'll probably shazbot! ourselves into oblivion.

[Cire]

F rack ourselves into oblivion.

[CNS]

High efficient vehicles are like that for several reasons, one of which is weight.  They aren't equally damaging the drive surfaces compared to non-efficient vehicles.

Also, if you want to worry about road damage, then they need to address how they treat the roads in cold conditions.

If you are worried about damaging small and large businesses, then they don't need to address that at all. Roads are expensive to maintain. It's perfectly fair that the people who drive the most miles on them should pay the most taxes. Trucks and semis should pay a higher tax per mile than small cars. You shouldn't get to use the highway for free just because you car doesn't run on gasoline, though.

In case of electric only vehicles, that is valid. 

[sonofdaxjones]

It would be almost impossible to turn the United States into the "Middle East" of green energy using the most popular and highly inefficient "green" energy production sources.

[CNS]

It would be almost impossible to turn the United States into the "Middle East" of green energy using the most popular and highly inefficient "green" energy production sources.

Take all the defense money we spend warring over the middle east oil protection and use it to subsidize local alt energy and we probs break even.  Mostly kidding.

[Emo EMAW]

High efficient vehicles are like that for several reasons, one of which is weight.  They aren't equally damaging the drive surfaces compared to non-efficient vehicles.

Also, if you want to worry about road damage, then they need to address how they treat the roads in cold conditions.

Yes they are. 

Like I said, I'm happy with how they do it today.  The impetus to change to a more fair system is too small for me.

[star seed 7]

dax is really daxing himself here, i don't even know who he's yelling at anymore

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

This entire thread is based on a stupid talking point (turbines kill birds) and a delusional point of view (green energy is a viable alternative to O&G).

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

In the near future, the gas tax is going to be zero and everyone will be taxed based upon mileage. That is a much more fair and reasonable than the gas tax and I'm all for it.

I don't think this is a good idea. What is the incentive to buy a fuel efficient vehicle if you are taxed on miles driven and not the amount of fuel you burn?

I think what liberals really want is a gas tax AND a miles driven tax. I don't see them ever getting rid a any tax.

[Cire]

We're not coming up with better resources because there is no incentive to.

[Rage Against the McKee]

In the near future, the gas tax is going to be zero and everyone will be taxed based upon mileage. That is a much more fair and reasonable than the gas tax and I'm all for it.

I don't think this is a good idea. What is the incentive to buy a fuel efficient vehicle if you are taxed on miles driven and not the amount of fuel you burn?

I think what liberals really want is a gas tax AND a miles driven tax. I don't see them ever getting rid a any tax.

Well, there would still be the whole not having to buy gasoline thing.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

We're not coming up with better resources because there is no incentive to.

Are you kidding? Set aside the billions in tax incentives and there's still the incentive to produce something everyone in the world requires.

[Spracne]

In the near future, the gas tax is going to be zero and everyone will be taxed based upon mileage. That is a much more fair and reasonable than the gas tax and I'm all for it.

I don't think this is a good idea. What is the incentive to buy a fuel efficient vehicle if you are taxed on miles driven and not the amount of fuel you burn?

I think what liberals really want is a gas tax AND a miles driven tax. I don't see them ever getting rid a any tax.

Here in Austin, we've been dealing with drought for several years.  The city launched a massive campaign to influence citizens to curb their water use.  The campaign worked.  In fact, it worked so well that the water department is in the red, because people are paying for less water.  The solution?  A drought tax, of course.

Taxes never go away.

[Cire]

We're not coming up with better resources because there is no incentive to.

Are you kidding? Set aside the billions in tax incentives and there's still the incentive to produce something everyone in the world requires.