Leadership Development

[nicname]

what in the sweet eff?

Also, no, Kellis, going 1 and done in the tournament should not ever, on any grounds, be considered a success.

Success in the tournament or a successful season cannot contain a 1-and-done in the tournament? If it is the latter then you place too much importance on the tournament and too little on the season.

[Rage Against the McKee]

what in the sweet eff?

Also, no, Kellis, going 1 and done in the tournament should not ever, on any grounds, be considered a success.

Success in the tournament or a successful season cannot contain a 1-and-done in the tournament? If it is the latter then you place too much importance on the tournament and too little on the season.

It's not like a 9 seed is indicative of a successful season, either.

[Asteriskhead]

what in the sweet eff?

Also, no, Kellis, going 1 and done in the tournament should not ever, on any grounds, be considered a success.

Success in the tournament or a successful season cannot contain a 1-and-done in the tournament? If it is the latter then you place too much importance on the tournament and too little on the season.

I don't think the point of fielding a team is to finish fifth in the conference. The point of fielding a team is to try to win the national championship, regular season conference championship, and conference tournament championship (in order of importance).

[pissclams]

oscar, like all coaches, says stupid crap, i find it funny

me, too. This is just his way of telling someone to answer the rough ridin' question, bad person. Nbd

oscar's wand thing is up there with anything ron prince said, which is really good news for you and i (connoisseurs of stupid crap).

[nicname]

what in the sweet eff?

Also, no, Kellis, going 1 and done in the tournament should not ever, on any grounds, be considered a success.

Success in the tournament or a successful season cannot contain a 1-and-done in the tournament? If it is the latter then you place too much importance on the tournament and too little on the season.

It's not like a 9 seed is indicative of a successful season, either.

To me it's successful enough for what I considered a rebuilding year at most heading in. Next season my expectations rise.

All that aside, the oscar quote is stupid and could actually be pretty hurtful. I don't think Weber means it that way. He just seems to say a lot of things that come off uncouth, especially in print. That isn't an excuse for oscar either. He's been in the business and in the public eye long enough that he should have learned to curtail that by now.

[Trim]

what in the sweet eff?

Also, no, Kellis, going 1 and done in the tournament should not ever, on any grounds, be considered a success.

Success in the tournament or a successful season cannot contain a 1-and-done in the tournament? If it is the latter then you place too much importance on the tournament and too little on the season.

Here's what Kellis based it on:

This time, a 20-victory season that featured victories over Kansas, Iowa State, Gonzaga and Oklahoma, as well as a winning conference record, demands approval.

oscar Weber entered the season with a young roster and NIT expectations. Guiding the Wildcats to a No. 9 seed in the NCAA Tournament should be seen as an achievement, even though they appeared capable of more at times.

• 20 wins.  I didn't find anything real quick that tells me how many teams hit that.  Seems like a lot. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/sos?&_3:col_1=3
• Not getting swept by ku, isu or ou
• Beating gonzaga in wichita
• .556 in conference, .526 including big 12 tournament
• Having a young roster and NIT expectations(self-inflicted)
• 9-seed in the NCAA tournament

[Trim]

oscar, like all coaches, says stupid crap, i find it funny

me, too. This is just his way of telling someone to answer the rough ridin' question, bad person. Nbd

oscar's wand thing is up there with anything ron prince said, which is really good news for you and i (connoisseurs of stupid crap).

Yes, "there's no doubt" I'm adding it to my oscar voice routine.

[pissclams]

trim do you have a mac?  garage band has a good voice changer feature, we need someone to dial in the appropriate settings to get to oscar voice and share it with us.

[Trim]

trim do you have a mac?  garage band has a good voice changer feature, we need someone to dial in the appropriate settings to get to oscar voice and share it with us.

No, but have an ipad.

I doubt my audio matches much.  It's really just about making up enough stupid crap on the fly to speak without breathing for a minute or so.

[nicname]

what in the sweet eff?

Also, no, Kellis, going 1 and done in the tournament should not ever, on any grounds, be considered a success.

Success in the tournament or a successful season cannot contain a 1-and-done in the tournament? If it is the latter then you place too much importance on the tournament and too little on the season.

I don't think the point of fielding a team is to finish fifth in the conference. The point of fielding a team is to try to win the national championship, regular season conference championship, and conference tournament championship (in order of importance).

I don't disagree, and my response wasn't just with regard to this season. Furthermore (and I'm not trying to put words into your mouth) if the point of fielding a team is to try and win Natty, Conference, and Conference Tournament titles, and that defines success then most programs, even many considered good are failing miserably and should have loads upon loads of pissed off fans every season.

I think the point of fielding a team — disregarding revenue (important) and scholastic (importance debated) purposes — is to develop a program that puts itself in a position to compete for the championships you mentioned in a reasonably frequent basis. Hell, if championships or bust is measure or success then LHC Bill Snyder is little more than mediocre and a debatable failure.

[Asteriskhead]

what in the sweet eff?

Also, no, Kellis, going 1 and done in the tournament should not ever, on any grounds, be considered a success.

Success in the tournament or a successful season cannot contain a 1-and-done in the tournament? If it is the latter then you place too much importance on the tournament and too little on the season.

I don't think the point of fielding a team is to finish fifth in the conference. The point of fielding a team is to try to win the national championship, regular season conference championship, and conference tournament championship (in order of importance).

I don't disagree, and my response wasn't just with regard to this season. Furthermore (and I'm not trying to put words into your mouth) if the point of fielding a team is to try and win Natty, Conference, and Conference Tournament titles, and that defines success then most programs, even many considered good are failing miserably and should have loads upon loads of pissed off fans every season.

I think the point of fielding a team — disregarding revenue (important) and scholastic (importance debated) purposes — is to develop a program that puts itself in a position to compete for the championships you mentioned in a reasonably frequent basis. Hell, if championships or bust is measure or success then LHC Bill Snyder is little more than mediocre and a debatable failure.

Obviously, winning a national championship every season is not a reasonable expectation, but it should still be the goal. On the other hand, there are programs that have shown that it is possible to win a conference title every season. These should be the goals of every program, every year, regardless of the circumstance. I'm not saying you should fire the staff every year for failing to achieve these. I'm not saying that you shouldn't reflect on the minor successes over the course of the season and celebrate them, but at the end of the day, if you didn't bring home hardware, you failed.

There were fun moments this season. I enjoy looking back on a lot of them, but there are some terrible, terrible moments from this season, as well. Instead of patting ourselves on the back for the things we did right, we need to be focusing on the things that were done wrong and strive to fix them. I hate complacency. I don't see oscar talking about fixing these mistakes. All I see is excuses, finger pointing and celebrating mediocrity.

[pissclams]

i wish we had a goE time machine which could take us back to when wooly was hired and the expectations of our posters on ksufans back then

or i wish noneya would just give up the archives

[kso_FAN]

i wish we had a goE time machine which could take us back to when wooly was hired and the expectations of our posters on ksufans back then

or i wish noneya would just give up the archives

My expectations for Wooly were pathetic.

[pissclams]

it's just dumb that anyone can say oscar hasn't met expectations, for him or for our program.  any argument made attempting to support that sentiment will summarily get dyckman smushed.

[Skipper44]

it's just dumb that anyone can say oscar hasn't met expectations, for him or for our program.  any argument made attempting to support that sentiment will summarily get dyckman smushed.

I enjoyed this thread on expectations
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=22177.0

I still like my never miss the tournament in back to back years and have a winning record in the tournament as benchmark for power schools that care about hoops.  At this point, I would only put KU and ISU as schools that truly care about it in the Big 12.

[catzacker]

I'm absurdly consistent.

I tend to agree with Dax, though I think that the program he describes doesn’t exist long term.  And it doesn’t exist because if you do what he says over the course of 10-15 years, then towards the end of that time, you are no long expecting just that, you are now expecting more because it probably means you’re an elite-ish program.  And if you go along with what everyone else “expects” over the course of 10 years, then you end up just hoping for the tourney once every 3 years because you inevitably begin to slip.   

It’s like, you’re either elite or you’re not.  If aren’t, then you argue over these insignificant/irrelevant “milestones” or whatever, if you are, then you argue over championships.

[nicname]

Obviously, winning a national championship every season is not a reasonable expectation, but it should still be the goal. On the other hand, there are programs that have shown that it is possible to win a conference title every season. These should be the goals of every program, every year, regardless of the circumstance. I'm not saying you should fire the staff every year for failing to achieve these. I'm not saying that you shouldn't reflect on the minor successes over the course of the season and celebrate them, but at the end of the day, if you didn't bring home hardware, you failed.

There were fun moments this season. I enjoy looking back on a lot of them, but there are some terrible, terrible moments from this season, as well. Instead of patting ourselves on the back for the things we did right, we need to be focusing on the things that were done wrong and strive to fix them. I hate complacency. I don't see oscar talking about fixing these mistakes. All I see is excuses, finger pointing and celebrating mediocrity.

I hear you, and I get what you're saying about the bolded part, especially outside of this particular story. We know a lot of that is just PR fluff from Schulz, Currie, etc. They're going to pump the PR sunshine no matter what. As far as Kellis' column it was just that, one dudes opinion that K-State overachieved or succeeded this season. Is that what he really thinks?  , but those quotes from oscar weren't really excuses to me. They weren't placed in the story to be excuses either. I took it as they were to show the point that the Cats were returning a lot, including leadership (Gip was the biggest leader on this team, imo) to a talented crew next season.

Again, oscar's quote about fairies and whatever is typical Brucing, and he should fix it. It sounds/ reads ridiculous, even if it was (probably) just an honest answer to a question about finding leadership heading into the NCAA tournament.

I looked back at some old Champaign Gazette article over oscar's 2006-07 (23-12, 9-7) and 2007-08 (16-19, 5-13) squads to gauge his reaction. I ran out of free articles but the summary I got was that after 06-07 there were some of the "tough bounces" comments that easily come off as excuses. The quotes after the 08 season took a lot more responsibility.

"The most disappointing thing, I've always taken pride in being part of programs where the kids make improvement," Weber said Monday. "It's probably one thing we didn't do on a whole, and it's probably why we had our struggles this year."

Then he went on to talk about players (Frazier, etc.) needing to step up as leaders the following year. They did get better the following year. Tying for second in the Big 10 and earning a 5-seed in the NCAA tournament before falling to 12-Seed W. Kentucky in the first round.

I'm not making excuses and don't want to be confused with accepting mediocrity, but I do think K-State fell on the positive side to what was a rebuilding/ transition year. That's just realistic to me. They fall on the NIT side? Then my alarm bells are going of, and it doesn't need to be said a follow up like Illinois' 07-08 squad and Weber's seat is burning up, if not burnt down. That shouldn't be in K-State's cycle, and I hope we don't condone it. The following years of bouncing in and out of the NCAAs every other year isn't good enough for K-State.

I'd be interested in Bread giving an honest account of oscar taking responsibility or blaming throughout his tenure at Illinois. I'm not concerned with the comments other than the awkwardness yet.   

Heading into 06-07 http://www.news-gazette.com/sports/illini-sports/mens-basketball/2006-11-01/tate-history-tells-us-patience-usually-pays.html

After 06-07 http://www.news-gazette.com/sports/illini-sports/mens-basketball/2007-03-17/tate-hope-horizon.html

After 06-07 http://www.news-gazette.com/sports/illini-sports/mens-basketball/2007-03-17/illini-unravel-late-difficult-season-comes-end.html

After horrid 07-08 http://www.news-gazette.com/sports/illini-sports/mens-basketball/2008-03-25/weber-points-important-offseason.html

[Dr Rick Daris]

the bottom line is that oscar ended up at a place where people in charge, oscar himself and a majority of our fans are going to be just fine w/ the season they had this year. 9 seed, quick exit, then find something undefinable to blame and how next year it will be better. rinse, repeat. i'm already bored w/ it.

[nicname]

it's just dumb that anyone can say oscar hasn't met expectations, for him or for our program.  any argument made attempting to support that sentiment will summarily get dyckman smushed.

I enjoyed this thread on expectations
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=22177.0

I still like my never miss the tournament in back to back years and have a winning record in the tournament as benchmark for power schools that care about hoops.  At this point, I would only put KU and ISU as schools that truly care about it in the Big 12.

That was a good thread with some very good posts/ points.

[massofcatfan]

the bottom line is that oscar ended up at a place where people in charge, oscar himself and a majority of our fans are going to be just fine w/ the season they had this year. 9 seed, quick exit, then find something undefinable to blame and how next year it will be better. rinse, repeat. i'm already bored w/ it.

well, after living through the 90s and 00s, 1-year Huggs, and Dillons trashcan, any year where we beat ku and make it to the tournament doesn't seem so bad

EXPECTATIONS: LOWERED

[michigancat]

the bottom line is that oscar ended up at a place where people in charge, oscar himself and a majority of our fans are going to be just fine w/ the season they had this year. 9 seed, quick exit, then find something undefinable to blame and how next year it will be better. rinse, repeat. i'm already bored w/ it.

yeah. I'm fine to a point where I wouldn't fire oscar as long as he sustains seasons like this. But yeah, it doesn't feel as fun.

[nicname]

the bottom line is that oscar ended up at a place where people in charge, oscar himself and a majority of our fans are going to be just fine w/ the season they had this year. 9 seed, quick exit, then find something undefinable to blame and how next year it will be better. rinse, repeat. i'm already bored w/ it.

yeah. I'm fine to a point where I wouldn't fire oscar as long as he sustains seasons like this. But yeah, it doesn't feel as fun.

Like this season or his first two combined? I'm guessing the latter.

[michigancat]

Like this season

[puniraptor]

a coach without leadership can't demand it of his players, which is why he isnt comfortable doing so.

i think this is part of the cause of our horrible road performances, at home the players are accountable to the fans (leaders), but away they are accountable to nobody (especially not oscar)

plausible?

[nicname]

Like this season

I couldn't do it year after year.