Author Topic: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff  (Read 38774 times)

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Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: people talk about athletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2014, 11:42:11 PM »
I'm not in everyone's pocket, but I'm assuming that if they got loans they filled out a fasfa and qualified for pell grants they accepted the pell. Are you going to get to the point, its getting late man?

eff. i didn't know that i was going to have to do this, but here is the point...

in order to get a pell grant, you can't take money from your rough ridin' parents. that is like student financial aid 101. at least it was when we (you and i) were in school. you basically had to divorce you parents and they could not claim you on their taxes and all parties had to agree that they would not give you any money period. so your initial point that people could get loans and grants and supplemental money from their parents is incorrect. it's false. it's wrong. unless of course you meant something else which i'm not able to figure out because you haven't answered a single question i've asked.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 09:31:14 AM by rick daris »

Offline ksupamplemousse

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2014, 11:50:21 PM »
I'm not in everyone's pocket, but I'm assuming that if they got loans they filled out a fasfa and qualified for pell grants they accepted the pell. Are you going to get to the point, its getting late man?

eff. i didn't know that i was going to have to do this, but here is the point...

in order to get a pell grant, you can't take money from your rough ridin' parents. that is like student financial aid 101. at least it was when we (you and i) were in school. you basically had to divorce you parents and they could not claim you on their taxes and all parties had to agree that they would not give you any money period. so your initial point that people could get loans and grants and supplemental money from their parents is incorrect. it's false. it's wrong. unless of course you meant something else which i'm not able to figure out because you haven't answered a single question i've asked.

You can't even divorce your parents anymore. They could disown you, and as long as they have money then you will not get pell grants or good loans. My parents stopped paying for my schooling (admittedly my fault), but they have tons of money, and I had to take several years off of school (because I couldn't get loans). It was not until I was 24 that I was able to get loans again, because only then was I technically not a dependent according to the government. It's a shitty situation if your parents have money and they aren't flipping the bill for school.
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Offline Jabeez

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2014, 11:52:46 PM »
I agree about non full ride athletes getting a worse deal, but, why even play if you are getting screwed?
 What does it benefit the school that you play golf and generate no revenue?
Instead a golfer could get a membership at a golf course, hire a personal coach and get better without college.  Or a golfer could accept a partial scholarship, get free golf and free coaching and free training, along with academic help for a degree, in case they don't make the pga.

 I respect the hard work they do, but they choose to participate.  Doesn't seem so bad?

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Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2014, 11:59:36 PM »
I'm not in everyone's pocket, but I'm assuming that if they got loans they filled out a fasfa and qualified for pell grants they accepted the pell. Are you going to get to the point, its getting late man?

eff. i didn't know that i was going to have to do this, but here is the point...

in order to get a pell grant, you can't take money from your rough ridin' parents. that is like student financial aid 101. at least it was when we (you and i) were in school. you basically had to divorce you parents and they could not claim you on their taxes and all parties had to agree that they would not give you any money period. so your initial point that people could get loans and grants and supplemental money from their parents is incorrect. it's false. it's wrong. unless of course you meant something else which i'm not able to figure out because you haven't answered a single question i've asked.

You can't even divorce your parents anymore. They could disown you, and as long as they have money then you will not get pell grants or good loans. My parents stopped paying for my schooling (admittedly my fault), but they have tons of money, and I had to take several years off of school (because I couldn't get loans). It was not until I was 24 that I was able to get loans again, because only then was I technically not a dependent according to the government. It's a shitty situation if your parents have money and they aren't flipping the bill for school.

yeah. it has to be a mutual thing where you both agree to it. at least it used to be that way. either way, you are both agreeing that they won't give you a penny. you have to be ruled an "independant".
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 12:11:56 AM by rick daris »

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2014, 12:10:56 AM »
I'm not in everyone's pocket, but I'm assuming that if they got loans they filled out a fasfa and qualified for pell grants they accepted the pell. Are you going to get to the point, its getting late man?

eff. i didn't know that i was going to have to do this, but here is the point...

in order to get a pell grant, you can't take money from your rough ridin' parents. that is like student financial aid 101. at least it was when we (you and i) were in school. you basically had to divorce you parents and they could not claim you on their taxes and all parties had to agree that they would not give you any money period. so your initial point that people could get loans and grants and supplemental money from their parents is incorrect. it's false. it's wrong. unless of course you meant something else which i'm not able to figure out because you haven't answered a single question i've asked.

1. I answered every question you asked, were you looking for specific answers?
2. That actually isn't what I said, did you miss "and or?" That sentence and how it was written or how it is interpreted has nothing to do with the point that most athletes can't get jobs to make money like non athletes can, so why have I been asked to answer 49 questions about it?
3. Your impression about how the pell grant worked is absolutely and 100% wrong. There is no provision about your parents not supporting you to make you eligible for a pell grant. I'm not assuming this or guessing it based on my experience; I know this based on my first work study being in a financial aid office and at one time in my life having a job where I assisted kids in filling out a fasfa. Essentially there was/is a formula and percentage of how much money your family income is as it relates to your family size that determines what aid you are eligible for and how much you get. Obviously if you don't list your parents income on your fasfa you are more likely to get full benefits, but it is absolutely possible to list your parents on your fasfa and still receive full aide. In my case I listed my parents as a freshman and a sophomore and I still received full aid, they obviously didn't have enough money but they had enough where they paid my liability insurance on my car. With the job I had helping kids fill out their fasfa, among other things, the most difficult thing I had to do was get the parents to complete their tax info. We used parental info for everyone I helped but only one wasn't eligible for full aid, his parents won $50,000 in the lottery but didn't tell him.

Bottom line is that your parents can have income and you can still get aid, that's a 100% fact. Obviously if your parents are making $60,000 dollars a year you aren't getting the full pell, but I never said that. I think you read way more into "parental support" than I said or meant.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2014, 12:16:34 AM »
I'm not in everyone's pocket, but I'm assuming that if they got loans they filled out a fasfa and qualified for pell grants they accepted the pell. Are you going to get to the point, its getting late man?

eff. i didn't know that i was going to have to do this, but here is the point...

in order to get a pell grant, you can't take money from your rough ridin' parents. that is like student financial aid 101. at least it was when we (you and i) were in school. you basically had to divorce you parents and they could not claim you on their taxes and all parties had to agree that they would not give you any money period. so your initial point that people could get loans and grants and supplemental money from their parents is incorrect. it's false. it's wrong. unless of course you meant something else which i'm not able to figure out because you haven't answered a single question i've asked.

You can't even divorce your parents anymore. They could disown you, and as long as they have money then you will not get pell grants or good loans. My parents stopped paying for my schooling (admittedly my fault), but they have tons of money, and I had to take several years off of school (because I couldn't get loans). It was not until I was 24 that I was able to get loans again, because only then was I technically not a dependent according to the government. It's a shitty situation if your parents have money and they aren't flipping the bill for school.

yeah. it has to be a mutual thing where you both agree to it. at least it used to be that way. either way, you are both agreeing that they won't give you a penny. you have to be ruled an "independant".

Daris, that's an oversimplification. I have no idea what deuce's exact situation was and I don't want to know because that's personal, but the process isn't as black and white and simplistic as you are making it out to be. Its obviously fraud if you get a pell grant and then your parents are paying your tuition or paying your rent, but there is no provision preventing your parents from giving you a few bucks for food.

Again I'm confused as to why we're talking about this though

Offline ksupamplemousse

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2014, 12:21:45 AM »


“We’ve got some young guys. We’re figuring it out. COVID is not easy. Injuries are not easy." - oscar Weber

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2014, 12:27:05 AM »


Agree, I'd much rather talk about people who expect athletes to do everything possible to win for the school, pass all of their classes, and then go and wait tables for 20 hours a week. I'm also intrigued by people who don't understand that schools provide trainers and food for completely self-serving purposes.

Offline ksupamplemousse

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2014, 12:31:59 AM »


Agree, I'd much rather talk about people who expect athletes to do everything possible to win for the school, pass all of their classes, and then go and wait tables for 20 hours a week. I'm also intrigued by people who don't understand that schools provide trainers and food for completely self-serving purposes.

I wasn't trying to take sides at all. Sorry if it came off that way. It just seems like the whole conversation went completely off the tracks.
“We’ve got some young guys. We’re figuring it out. COVID is not easy. Injuries are not easy." - oscar Weber

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2014, 12:40:53 AM »
i agree and apologize for messing up the thread for the last two pages. cliffs notes-

-mir is wrong in thinking that poor scholarship athletes and poor non scholarship athletes share similar money and student loan problems after college because of financial options available to them while in school.

-nothing. that was basically it.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 12:46:54 AM by rick daris »

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #60 on: January 31, 2014, 01:00:26 AM »
i agree and apologize for messing up the thread for the last two pages. cliffs notes-

-mir is wrong in thinking that poor scholarship athletes and poor non scholarship athletes share similar money and student loan problems after college because of financial options available to them while in school.

-nothing. that was basically it.

So no opinion on whether or not athletes should receive a stipend?

I know of 6 DOD football players and one basketball player at the same time, 3 of the football players and the basketball player is known by every single poster on this board and I know for an absolute fact that they had, at least for a year, a similar debt load that I had. I don't want to seem like all of these guys were starving or even worse off than me but they certainly weren't better off than me. I think most people think athletes live better than their peers and for the most part that isn't true.

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #61 on: January 31, 2014, 01:02:27 AM »
i agree and apologize for messing up the thread for the last two pages. cliffs notes-

-mir is wrong in thinking that poor scholarship athletes and poor non scholarship athletes share similar money and student loan problems after college because of financial options available to them while in school.

-nothing. that was basically it.

So no opinion on whether or not athletes should receive a stipend?

I know of 6 DOD football players and one basketball player at the same time, 3 of the football players and the basketball player is known by every single poster on this board and I know for an absolute fact that they had, at least for a year, a similar debt load that I had. I don't want to seem like all of these guys were starving or even worse off than me but they certainly weren't better off than me. I think most people think athletes live better than their peers and for the most part that isn't true.

i absolutely think athletes should get more than what they currently get. without a doubt.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #62 on: January 31, 2014, 01:03:22 AM »
 :cheers:

Offline Alpinist

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #63 on: January 31, 2014, 06:34:17 AM »
I would assume the debt load of a student athlete is similar to that of a non athlete with a similar socioeconomic background. A non student athlete would get grants and loans to cover school expenses and some cost of living and then supplement that with jobs and or parrental support. A student athlete with a full ride (most student athletes don‘t get a full ride) will use the grants and loans to fully supplement cost of living since a job isn't a credible option for most.

no

yep

no. your assumptions are way rough ridin' wrong. at least they were when i was in school and i "assume" they still are.

I shouldn't have used the word assumption there, what I posted is what I knew about athletes that I knew when I was in school. Also you made several good points in your counter argument that swayed my opinion, nice job.

i started to type something snarky and then stopped. do you or did you know 19 year olds at kstate that didn't receive parental support and weren't on some kind of scholarship but were still full time students?
Yeah and they all had jobs that paid them real money, unlike the athletes I knew who got paid in sweatpants, t shirts, and backpacks. Those things are hard to eat they also don't work well in gas tanks or for cell phone bill payments.
Don't forget cleats, practice shorts, etc. and other items easily sold

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #64 on: January 31, 2014, 08:30:37 AM »
Its a NCAA violation for athletes to sell that stuff, clown. Even if they could do you really think they have enough of that stuff to make good money off of it. There aren't that many weirdos that wants to buy used practice gear, gross.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2014, 08:43:06 AM »
I think every school should be required to provide books and tuition, and make available student-athlete housing including a meal plan that costs less than the stipend.

I don't agree with the idea that athletes should be paid salaries based upon skill level or anything like that, though.

Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #66 on: January 31, 2014, 09:04:03 AM »
The reality is that these "student-athletes" are working full time jobs for the University.  Question is whether they should get some spending money for their services.  Sure, they get great benefits like free education, housing, meal plans, health benefits, athletic gear.  No question.  They are similarly situated with the elite academic performers who are on full rides and get free housing.  The difference is that the elite academic performers can work part time jobs to earn spending money on the side.  In fact, these students are often employed by the Univeristy, earning money as teaching assistants, graduate assistants, tutors, etc.  Yes, like the athletes, these academic performers already have great benefits, but none of those benefits translate into $$-in-hand for weekend spending, going on dates, going out to dinner, buying clothes, xbos games, etc.  Unless the athlete has parents providing them money, they have no access to funds, basically. 

I think their athletic work load should be compensated in some form, however small.   

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #67 on: January 31, 2014, 09:08:21 AM »
:clap:

Online ben ji

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #68 on: January 31, 2014, 09:18:39 AM »
Saw 3 new pages and got all scared/excited that something big had happened...but nope, just some people talking about financial aid for college students in the Conference realignment thread.

Offline WildcatNkilt

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #69 on: January 31, 2014, 09:20:01 AM »
Saw 3 new pages and got all scared/excited that something big had happened...but nope, just some people talking about financial aid for college students in the Conference realignment thread.

Yea...it deserved its own thread.
Kansas City Blue Barbecue fan.

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #70 on: January 31, 2014, 09:26:28 AM »
The reality is that these "student-athletes" are working full time jobs for the University.  Question is whether they should get some spending money for their services.  Sure, they get great benefits like free education, housing, meal plans, health benefits, athletic gear.  No question.  They are similarly situated with the elite academic performers who are on full rides and get free housing.  The difference is that the elite academic performers can work part time jobs to earn spending money on the side.  In fact, these students are often employed by the Univeristy, earning money as teaching assistants, graduate assistants, tutors, etc.  Yes, like the athletes, these academic performers already have great benefits, but none of those benefits translate into $$-in-hand for weekend spending, going on dates, going out to dinner, buying clothes, xbos games, etc.  Unless the athlete has parents providing them money, they have no access to funds, basically. 

I think their athletic work load should be compensated in some form, however small.   

i'm all for athletes getting a little more, but to say they have no access to funds is either ignorant or a lie. financial aid is available to them just as it is for everyone else. pell grants if they qualify and if their parents are not helping them out they will and loans if they don't or if they decide they want more.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 09:32:12 AM by rick daris »

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #71 on: January 31, 2014, 09:33:21 AM »
Athletes get a pretty sweet deal IMO. Would take, personally.

the money is nice... but it's such a huge time commitment

so what

So what? GTFO guy. First of all their scholarship and stipend doesn't cover the full cost of being a college student. Their time commitment is so intensive that they cannot hold jobs, can't do much outside of a 10 hour work study. They are waking up at 6AM on random Thurdsays in July to lift weights. They are studying playbooks, watching film, etc. The time commitment is a very big deal, the game is their job, except they don't get paid.

the chix tho

Offline daBish7

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #72 on: January 31, 2014, 09:44:20 AM »
I would have paid money to play fb for the Cats.


Offline yoga-like_abana

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #73 on: January 31, 2014, 09:51:00 AM »
what precisely would people like to see? I really have no problem with student athletes being fairly compensated but I think it would be so difficult to put a price on that. and if they were paid for play it could be detrimental to the schools and the game.

Offline slucat

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Re: people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff
« Reply #74 on: January 31, 2014, 09:53:12 AM »
Seems like student athletes get a choice.  You take it or you don't.  If they didn't take the scholly, and went to college and had some crappy job, they still couldn't afford the lifestyle the scholarship provides.