Author Topic: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?  (Read 59757 times)

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Offline Trim

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #225 on: March 11, 2014, 01:36:46 AM »
I think there should be no rule.

You're correct!

I don't agree. There are plenty of industries that have minimum requirements, why should sports be any different?

I worked through this in my head over the weekend at the while elliptical'n.  I'm confident that the results of a return to the free market system would roughly be the same as what the "baseball rule" would mandate, while allowing flexibility for unique circumstances.

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #226 on: March 11, 2014, 01:43:57 AM »
I think there should be no rule.

You're correct!

I don't agree. There are plenty of industries that have minimum requirements, why should sports be any different?

i think the nfl rule is fine for the nfl and players because there is a real safety issue with even the most talented 18yr olds going up against pros.  it also has only effected a handful of players throughout time(though, that number is probably growing more rapidly). 

i don't think those same barriers exist in basketball.  the pre-1 and done rule showed that talented 18yr olds can play fine in the nba and the rule effects significantly more players.

*edit*
the baseball rule is just straight dumb, but at least there is a viable minor league system, which is the only reason i can see for basketball players to have to go to school a year.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 01:47:29 AM by seven »
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline sys

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #227 on: March 11, 2014, 01:48:56 AM »
I think there should be no rule.

NO ONE GIVES A crap WHAT YOU THINK SAN FRANCISCO HIPPIE!

everyone was thinking it, thank god someone said it.
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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #228 on: March 11, 2014, 08:24:41 AM »
Doyel posted this, seems pertinent:


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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #229 on: March 11, 2014, 08:38:04 AM »
The NBA's rule is in place to protect the Korleone Young's of the world. It has helped a lot more people than it has hurt IMO.

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #230 on: March 11, 2014, 08:58:38 AM »
The NBA's rule is in place to protect the Korleone Young's of the world. It has helped a lot more people than it has hurt IMO.

How many Korleone Young's were there before the rule passed?

It's about marketing for the NBA and ensuring guys Coach K and Self don't sign a recruit and lose them before they play a game, not about protecting players.

Offline Cire

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #231 on: March 11, 2014, 09:02:43 AM »
The NBA's rule is in place to protect the Korleone Young's of the world. It has helped a lot more people than it has hurt IMO.

How many Korleone Young's were there before the rule passed?

It's about marketing for the NBA and ensuring guys Coach K and Self don't sign a recruit and lose them before they play a game, not about protecting players.

It's protecting the NBA from drafting based purely on workouts. 

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #232 on: March 11, 2014, 09:13:00 AM »

It's protecting the NBA from drafting based purely on workouts.

They can do that without a rule, if they'd like.

Offline CNS

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #233 on: March 11, 2014, 09:19:16 AM »
Its about marketing for the NBA.  Having the entire sports world talking about Andrew Wiggins for an entire year, rather than just a month or two before draft, creates fans that follow the kid once he moves on to the NBA.

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #234 on: March 11, 2014, 09:28:49 AM »
Its about marketing for the NBA.  Having the entire sports world talking about Andrew Wiggins for an entire year, rather than just a month or two before draft, creates fans that follow the kid once he moves on to the NBA.

Even with no rule, nothing would prevent teams from preferring kids who have a fanbase from college.

Offline TownieCat

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #235 on: March 11, 2014, 09:33:45 AM »
The NBA's rule is in place to protect the Korleone Young's of the world. It has helped a lot more people than it has hurt IMO.

How many Korleone Young's were there before the rule passed?

It's about marketing for the NBA and ensuring guys Coach K and Self don't sign a recruit and lose them before they play a game, not about protecting players.

It's protecting the NBA from drafting based purely on workouts.

The NBA could not care less about Coach K and Massa Self's recruits. Jabari Parker was on the cover of SI as a HS junior. Do you think 1 year at Duke really aided his hype/marketability?

The rule protects the teams from drafting 18 y/o kids who need more development. If the 30 owners want to make the decision that players need to be 1 year out of high school then that is their decision to make.

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #236 on: March 11, 2014, 09:37:57 AM »
The rule protects the teams from drafting 18 y/o kids who need more development. If the 30 owners want to make the decision that players need to be 1 year out of high school then that is their decision to make.

Who's gonna protect them from that dumb decision? :ohno:

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #237 on: March 11, 2014, 09:41:11 AM »
How many players have been hurt by this rule? Any?

Offline CNS

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #238 on: March 11, 2014, 09:57:54 AM »
Its about marketing for the NBA.  Having the entire sports world talking about Andrew Wiggins for an entire year, rather than just a month or two before draft, creates fans that follow the kid once he moves on to the NBA.

Even with no rule, nothing would prevent teams from preferring kids who have a fanbase from college.

What I am saying is that this is what the one year rule is about.  You are right, but why should the NBA make that choice if they can have all kids go to college and through the same media hype machine?  It's free advertising for their eventual product.

Offline CNS

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #239 on: March 11, 2014, 09:59:18 AM »
How many players have been hurt by this rule? Any?

Bill Walker

Would have been an instant millionaire.  Instead, came to school, busted his knee, slipped way south of where he would have been taken as a HS sr, and lost out on a big signing bonus and possibly could have avoided the knee injury.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #240 on: March 11, 2014, 10:00:20 AM »
The NBA's rule is in place to protect the Korleone Young's of the world. It has helped a lot more people than it has hurt IMO.

Korleone Young would not have been helped by the current rule, he would have left after a year and that would have been a bad decision too.

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #241 on: March 11, 2014, 10:02:49 AM »
How many players have been hurt by this rule? Any?

All of the ones who could've/should've been making money in the NBA a year earlier.

It's ridiculous that the one-and-done types who NBA experts say are ready after completing high school (or earlier) are going to college because of an arbitrary rule that says NBA players need to be a year out of high school, which is in place for dubious reasons.  My impression is that most current one-and-dones consist of kids who would go pro w/o the one if allowed, as opposed to kids who chose to go to college and/or weren't good enough to go pro and then were so good there in one year that the situation changed and they go pro. 

In other words, even with no rule, I feel that the "baseball rule" would essentially be in effect if there was no rule.  The elites who otherwise would be "one and done" would go pro right away, and the college players would play in college and develop until they've become NBA-worthy, likely in more than one year.  If there's  an exceptional scenario, there'd be no rules arbitrarily allowing for the surprise freshman stud to go pro rather than be stuck in college for 2 more years for no reason.

And there'll be dumbass kids who overvalue themselves and go pro right away and lose their eligibility, and dumbass NBA teams who take them, but the free market will eventually smarten everyone up.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #242 on: March 11, 2014, 10:09:13 AM »
I agree with most of the rationale for the rule here, but this rule also protects NBA owners from themselves. The mid-90s featured Garnett, Bryant, O'Neal (Jermaine), and McGrady. After that more teams started to take the chance on high school players and by the early 2000s most of the picks weren't very good players. The rule made it easy for owners not to "be forced" to take those choices, plus the bad publicity those bad choices started to bring to the league.

Scroll down for the list of HS draft picks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_high_school_draftees

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #243 on: March 11, 2014, 10:11:01 AM »
Its about marketing for the NBA.  Having the entire sports world talking about Andrew Wiggins for an entire year, rather than just a month or two before draft, creates fans that follow the kid once he moves on to the NBA.

The only argument worse than this one about the NBA entry rules is that NBA entry rules are racist.

The amount of actual money the NBA makes from having these guys in college is astronomically tiny. Do you really think Wiggins being at KU for a couple of months will make the KU fan who is not already a NBA consumer suddenly become one? How many K-State fans do you know went out and purchased Miami Heat or Boston Celtics jerseys in 2008? Quick, where's Cartier Martin? For the most part college fans and NBA fans are very different. Most NBA fans can't stand the relatively poor quality of NCAA basketball.

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #244 on: March 11, 2014, 10:11:28 AM »
I'm happy the one-and-done rule is there, for selfish reasons.

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #245 on: March 11, 2014, 10:12:22 AM »
to answer the OP, yes.
I think what my friend Mitch is trying to say is that true love is blind.

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #246 on: March 11, 2014, 10:19:04 AM »
Its about marketing for the NBA.  Having the entire sports world talking about Andrew Wiggins for an entire year, rather than just a month or two before draft, creates fans that follow the kid once he moves on to the NBA.

The only argument worse than this one about the NBA entry rules is that NBA entry rules are racist.

The amount of actual money the NBA makes from having these guys in college is astronomically tiny. Do you really think Wiggins being at KU for a couple of months will make the KU fan who is not already a NBA consumer suddenly become one? How many K-State fans do you know went out and purchased Miami Heat or Boston Celtics jerseys in 2008? Quick, where's Cartier Martin? For the most part college fans and NBA fans are very different. Most NBA fans can't stand the relatively poor quality of NCAA basketball.

I think that there is a portion of fanbases that will follow their guy, yes.  As for that portion being astronomically tiny, I don't know.  I have never heard/read a story speaking to that.  If you have that info, I would be interested in seeing it.

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #248 on: March 11, 2014, 10:24:15 AM »
How many players have been hurt by this rule? Any?

All of the ones who could've/should've been making money in the NBA a year earlier.

It's ridiculous that the one-and-done types who NBA experts say are ready after completing high school (or earlier) are going to college because of an arbitrary rule that says NBA players need to be a year out of high school, which is in place for dubious reasons.  My impression is that most current one-and-dones consist of kids who would go pro w/o the one if allowed, as opposed to kids who chose to go to college and/or weren't good enough to go pro and then were so good there in one year that the situation changed and they go pro. 

In other words, even with no rule, I feel that the "baseball rule" would essentially be in effect if there was no rule.  The elites who otherwise would be "one and done" would go pro right away, and the college players would play in college and develop until they've become NBA-worthy, likely in more than one year.  If there's  an exceptional scenario, there'd be no rules arbitrarily allowing for the surprise freshman stud to go pro rather than be stuck in college for 2 more years for no reason.

And there'll be dumbass kids who overvalue themselves and go pro right away and lose their eligibility, and dumbass NBA teams who take them, but the free market will eventually smarten everyone up.

I'm pro rule because I want at least some protection for the athletes. When there was no early entry rule it was too easy for kids to get bad advice and then flame out and it happened way more than it should have. So if you're a high school senior and wanted to test your NBA worth, for most you can't get an actual read until you workout for scouts and go to draft camps. The problem with that is once you do these things you lose your college eligibility. So if you get hurt in the spring or just got bad advice that you're NBA ready when you're not, then you're stuck. I'm all about free market correction but not when that market is slanted to hurt the disadvantaged at a disproportionate rate.

The issue isn't a rich owner or gm missing on a prospect but it's that prospect sitting at home because some agent gave out some poor advice, trying to get more cash.

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Re: Will Foster break Pullen's scoring title?
« Reply #249 on: March 11, 2014, 10:24:45 AM »
Protecting bad NBA owners/GMs from making bad decisions about 18-year-old prospects just frees up more time for them to make bad decisions about everything else.