if waters was a freshman

[dlineguyz]

Would we all be excited? I would still want Daniel but at least we would have more to look forward to. By the time Jake is good he will be gone, assuming he becomes good. He just seems to get ice cold at times and we let him play through it. Daniel never gets to play through any mistakes. YES I'm MAD. YES I'm pro LIFE

[scottwildcat]

Would we all be excited? I would still want Daniel but at least we would have more to look forward to. By the time Jake is good he will be gone, assuming he becomes good. He just seems to get ice cold at times and we let him play through it. Daniel never gets to play through any mistakes. YES I'm MAD. YES I'm pro LIFE

not with Daniel sitting there not getting the snaps he deserves.

[dlineguyz]

Can you imagine Daniel on the zone read on saturday with the way hubert was running? he would've gone for 200 easy

[kslim]

Would we all be excited? I would still want Daniel but at least we would have more to look forward to. By the time Jake is good he will be gone, assuming he becomes good. He just seems to get ice cold at times and we let him play through it. Daniel never gets to play through any mistakes. YES I'm MAD. YES I'm pro LIFE

id appreciate that he was good enough to be a starter as a freshman for bill, i am just as confused as to why #ourguy hasnt played much the last two weeks but he did this with klein to an extent and i expect daniel to be the starter next year with bill knowing this was a reloading year

[CNS]

If Jake was a Frosh and could play how he does now, I would be ecstatic. 

He also would be on the bench.

[Jackstack99EMAW]

No, absolutely not.  Pocket passers haven't really worked in a KSU offense since the mid 90s when we had really good defenses, and we don't have really good defenses.  This year could have easily been a 9 win year.  Josh Freeman was probably the most talented passer we've ever had(Ron P I know) and he still won 6 or 7 games, and our fanbase should expect a lot better than that.  Unless we start getting elite defensive recruits on a consistent basis, then we should stick with dual threats.

[Asteriskhead]

Can you imagine Daniel on the zone read on saturday with the way hubert was running? he would've gone for 200 easy

They were putting an additional one or two players in the box for the four plays Daniel was in. Unless they were going to let him throw, I doubt it, and I'm one of the biggest #Life homers there is.

[Shooter Jones]

id appreciate that he was good enough to be a starter as a freshman for bill, i am just as confused as to why #ourguy hasnt played much the last two weeks but he did this with klein to an extent and i expect daniel to be the starter next year with bill knowing this was a reloading year

This^

From what I've heard the staff has been eying 2014 as a special year. Probably bullshit, but hope it's true and Snyd's is just keeping #life from getting spaghetti brains in a rebuilding year.

[Jackstack99EMAW]

id appreciate that he was good enough to be a starter as a freshman for bill, i am just as confused as to why #ourguy hasnt played much the last two weeks but he did this with klein to an extent and i expect daniel to be the starter next year with bill knowing this was a reloading year

This^

From what I've heard the staff has been eying 2014 as a special year. Probably bullshit, but hope it's true and Snyd's is just keeping #life from getting spaghetti brains in a rebuilding year.

Our defense could actually be good in 2014, with Sams starting, could be a 9-11 win season with 2015 being as good or maybe better.

[steve dave]

no, because he doesn't throw the ball very well

[Brock Landers]

Would we all be excited? I would still want Daniel but at least we would have more to look forward to. By the time Jake is good he will be gone, assuming he becomes good. He just seems to get ice cold at times and we let him play through it. Daniel never gets to play through any mistakes. YES I'm MAD. YES I'm pro LIFE

id appreciate that he was good enough to be a starter as a freshman for bill, i am just as confused as to why #ourguy hasnt played much the last two weeks but he did this with klein to an extent and i expect daniel to be the starter next year with bill knowing this was a reloading year

I want to believe this.......I really do.

[kso_FAN]

Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.

The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.

FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.

[kslim]

Would we all be excited? I would still want Daniel but at least we would have more to look forward to. By the time Jake is good he will be gone, assuming he becomes good. He just seems to get ice cold at times and we let him play through it. Daniel never gets to play through any mistakes. YES I'm MAD. YES I'm pro LIFE

id appreciate that he was good enough to be a starter as a freshman for bill, i am just as confused as to why #ourguy hasnt played much the last two weeks but he did this with klein to an extent and i expect daniel to be the starter next year with bill knowing this was a reloading year

I want to believe this.......I really do.

not to mention we had a top 25 defense this year which baffles me

[Jackstack99EMAW]

Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.

The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.

FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.

What about 3 and outs?  Or drives that resulted in TDs?  Serious questions btw.

[hatingfrancisco]

No, absolutely not.  Pocket passers haven't really worked in a KSU offense since the mid 90s when we had really good defenses, and we don't have really good defenses.  This year could have easily been a 9 win year.  Josh Freeman was probably the most talented passer we've ever had(Ron P I know) and he still won 6 or 7 games, and our fanbase should expect a lot better than that.  Unless we start getting elite defensive recruits on a consistent basis, then we should stick with dual threats.

JFC

[Jackstack99EMAW]

No, absolutely not.  Pocket passers haven't really worked in a KSU offense since the mid 90s when we had really good defenses, and we don't have really good defenses.  This year could have easily been a 9 win year.  Josh Freeman was probably the most talented passer we've ever had(Ron P I know) and he still won 6 or 7 games, and our fanbase should expect a lot better than that.  Unless we start getting elite defensive recruits on a consistent basis, then we should stick with dual threats.

JFC

Freeman, Coffman, Meier, Dunn, Waters all won tons of games, right?  Then you have Kavanaugh, Miller, and May who actually won and were good QBs but all haven't played since the mid 90s.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.

The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.

FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.

What about 3 and outs?  Or drives that resulted in TDs?  Serious questions btw.

Yeah. When most of our offense comes from big plays, with next to nothing in between, those advanced stats are going to make us look a lot better than we really are. There has been no consistency in our offense all year, except for when Sams is taking the snaps, and it has cost us games.

It's not about turnovers. It's about field position and having more positive outcomes offensively than negative outcomes and we have not done that.

[Brock Landers]

Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.

The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.

FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.

What about 3 and outs?  Or drives that resulted in TDs?  Serious questions btw.

Yeah. When most of our offense comes from big plays, with next to nothing in between, those advanced stats are going to make us look a lot better than we really are. There has been no consistency in our offense all year, except for when Sams is taking the snaps, and it has cost us games.

It's not about turnovers. It's about field position and having more positive outcomes offensively than negative outcomes and we have not done that.

Remember when _FENCE made this?  The Punt and 3 and Out numbers are simply terrifying:

[kso_FAN]

Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.

The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.

FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.

What about 3 and outs?  Or drives that resulted in TDs?  Serious questions btw.

Waters had more 3 and outs. I won't question it or try to rationalize it. He took too many sacks and struggled sailing balls on intermediate routes to the sidelines. He was a clumsy runner, but he got better as the season went along, his running numbers were far more indicative of him taking way too many sacks.

No doubt the use of the quarterbacks this season was frustrating. Some games the staff found a good rhythm and some they didn't and I hope they get a better system figured out for next year.

However, the offense for THIS TEAM, was still very good, and it was very good with the numbers of both quarterbacks combined, despite both of them having turnover issues.

[kslim]

Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.

The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.

FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.

What about 3 and outs?  Or drives that resulted in TDs?  Serious questions btw.

Waters had more 3 and outs. I won't question it or try to rationalize it. He took too many sacks and struggled sailing balls on intermediate routes to the sidelines. He was a clumsy runner, but he got better as the season went along, his running numbers were far more indicative of him taking way too many sacks.

No doubt the use of the quarterbacks this season was frustrating. Some games the staff found a good rhythm and some they didn't and I hope they get a better system figured out for next year.

However, the offense for THIS TEAM, was still very good, and it was very good with the numbers of both quarterbacks combined, despite both of them having turnover issues.

i think the offensive numbers are really inflated by 200yd rushing performances and tlbl's yac but thats just me

[kso_FAN]

[It's not about turnovers. It's about field position and having more positive outcomes offensively than negative outcomes and we have not done that.

I understand your other points, but the impact of turnovers was just as dramatic as any other factor in winning and losing this season, not only that they happened, but when they happened with both QBs.

[kso_FAN]

i think the offensive numbers are really inflated by 200yd rushing performances and tlbl's yac but thats just me

Yeah, last year they were inflated by our good players too. Good players tend to inflate the stats.

This place, man.

[kslim]

i think the offensive numbers are really inflated by 200yd rushing performances and tlbl's yac but thats just me

Yeah, last year they were inflated by our good players too. Good players tend to inflate the stats.

This place, man.

cmon surely you got my point. i know they were good offensive outputs in those games but it wasnt very consistent (to me)

[Rage Against the McKee]

Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.

The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.

FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.

What about 3 and outs?  Or drives that resulted in TDs?  Serious questions btw.

Yeah. When most of our offense comes from big plays, with next to nothing in between, those advanced stats are going to make us look a lot better than we really are. There has been no consistency in our offense all year, except for when Sams is taking the snaps, and it has cost us games.

It's not about turnovers. It's about field position and having more positive outcomes offensively than negative outcomes and we have not done that.

Remember when _FENCE made this?  The Punt and 3 and Out numbers are simply terrifying:

I went and looked up Waters' drives in Big 12 play prior to the KU game and more than half of Waters' drives were 4 plays or less for 0 points. It's just dumbfounding how bad he is when he's not throwing deep touchdown passes. If we could move the football at a reasonable level and still consistently put points on the board when we aren't hitting big plays, I would want Waters to be the starter and I'd want Sams to move to WR. Most of his drives are just unacceptably bad, though. He shouldn't be playing.

[michigancat]

Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.

The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.

FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.

What about 3 and outs?  Or drives that resulted in TDs?  Serious questions btw.

Waters had more 3 and outs. I won't question it or try to rationalize it. He took too many sacks and struggled sailing balls on intermediate routes to the sidelines. He was a clumsy runner, but he got better as the season went along, his running numbers were far more indicative of him taking way too many sacks.

No doubt the use of the quarterbacks this season was frustrating. Some games the staff found a good rhythm and some they didn't and I hope they get a better system figured out for next year.

However, the offense for THIS TEAM, was still very good, and it was very good with the numbers of both quarterbacks combined, despite both of them having turnover issues.

While the offense was pretty good, it obviously could have been better.