Spirited debate inspired by Dax.

[quietstorm5]

storm is excoriating the always angry too cool for schoolers.

Not really.  And he's making stuff up.

weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once.  He did, however, finish 9th twice with his own players.

weber's an inarticulate, insecure rube who can't recruit or manage a big-time program and that's why he's not a top 50 coach.  Using 5 year rolling periods, with his own players, weber had the 13th worst 5 year period in Illinois history (his last 5 years).  That's out of 100 or so such periods.  He was in the 13th percentile.

That sucks.

Frank beat 3 Top 10 teams with essentially a year younger team, and won a game in the NCAA on top of it. I think he would have done alright with the team last year.

Weber did in fact finish 2nd twice in the BigTen with rosters of all or mostly his players. 05-06 and 08-09. Pretty simple math count the players on the roster count who were his recruits and if more were his recruits then lo-and behold it's a team of mostly his players.

The top four guys in 05-06 in minutes per and scoring were all Self recruits.  Dee and James were seniors on that team.  That wasn't a oscar squad.  Suggesting otherwise based on total number of players recruited on the squad confirms you as a dumbfuck.

I believe you confirmed that about yourself that last time you attempted to correct me and got proven wrong. Only to be a little girl and resort to name calling. So according to you it's not a coaches sqaud until all the players are his not just most of the players but all of them? When all of the starters are his? When only the top rotation players are his? You started off by proving your an idiot with the stupid statement "weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once" You have all but acknowledged that was factually false. You have all but literally walked away from that by now saying well it wasn't his team because even though most of the players on the team were his not enough of them played enough minutes to meet your moving criteria. Don't move the goal post now! Don't get so angry and annoyed that you don't get to be percieved as all knowing about the Illini on here!

[puniraptor]

you really cant see there is a difference between the players you win with and the players on the roster?

[Dr Rick Daris]

storm is excoriating the always angry too cool for schoolers.

Not really.  And he's making stuff up.

weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once.  He did, however, finish 9th twice with his own players.

weber's an inarticulate, insecure rube who can't recruit or manage a big-time program and that's why he's not a top 50 coach.  Using 5 year rolling periods, with his own players, weber had the 13th worst 5 year period in Illinois history (his last 5 years).  That's out of 100 or so such periods.  He was in the 13th percentile.

That sucks.

Frank beat 3 Top 10 teams with essentially a year younger team, and won a game in the NCAA on top of it. I think he would have done alright with the team last year.

Weber did in fact finish 2nd twice in the BigTen with rosters of all or mostly his players. 05-06 and 08-09. Pretty simple math count the players on the roster count who were his recruits and if more were his recruits then lo-and behold it's a team of mostly his players.

The top four guys in 05-06 in minutes per and scoring were all Self recruits.  Dee and James were seniors on that team.  That wasn't a oscar squad.  Suggesting otherwise based on total number of players recruited on the squad confirms you as a dumbfuck.

I believe you confirmed that about yourself that last time you attempted to correct me and got proven wrong. Only to be a little girl and resort to name calling. So according to you it's not a coaches sqaud until all the players are his not just most of the players but all of them? When all of the starters are his? When only the top rotation players are his? You started off by proving your an idiot with the stupid statement "weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once" You have all but acknowledged that was factually false. You have all but literally walked away from that by now saying well it wasn't his team because even though most of the players on the team were his not enough of them played enough minutes to meet your moving criteria. Don't move the goal post now! Don't get so angry and annoyed that you don't get to be percieved as all knowing about the Illini on here!

i would guess that somewhere around 98% of people, who even somewhat casually follow the sport of college basketball, would tell you that if a team's top four scorers and minutes per game players were recruited by a previous coach then the team isn't really the current coaches team regardless of how many of "his guys" are riding the pine. of course that's just my opinion and the opinion of almost every other rational brain thinking human out there. you do what you want and don't let anyone try to convince you not to.

[felix rex]

People who make dumb arguments seem to be the most angry about said arguments

[CNS]

All others on the team could be webs guys but if the top 4 scorers and min played are selfs guys, its a self team.  Argue technicality and number of useless guys all you want.

[lopakman]

If there was a top 40 list for coaches who win with other coaches players I'd probably put oscar on it.  He's not completely terrible at that.  He's completely terrible at everything else though. 

[quietstorm5]

storm is excoriating the always angry too cool for schoolers.

Not really.  And he's making stuff up.

weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once.  He did, however, finish 9th twice with his own players.

weber's an inarticulate, insecure rube who can't recruit or manage a big-time program and that's why he's not a top 50 coach.  Using 5 year rolling periods, with his own players, weber had the 13th worst 5 year period in Illinois history (his last 5 years).  That's out of 100 or so such periods.  He was in the 13th percentile.

That sucks.

Frank beat 3 Top 10 teams with essentially a year younger team, and won a game in the NCAA on top of it. I think he would have done alright with the team last year.

Weber did in fact finish 2nd twice in the BigTen with rosters of all or mostly his players. 05-06 and 08-09. Pretty simple math count the players on the roster count who were his recruits and if more were his recruits then lo-and behold it's a team of mostly his players.

The top four guys in 05-06 in minutes per and scoring were all Self recruits.  Dee and James were seniors on that team.  That wasn't a oscar squad.  Suggesting otherwise based on total number of players recruited on the squad confirms you as a dumbfuck.

I believe you confirmed that about yourself that last time you attempted to correct me and got proven wrong. Only to be a little girl and resort to name calling. So according to you it's not a coaches sqaud until all the players are his not just most of the players but all of them? When all of the starters are his? When only the top rotation players are his? You started off by proving your an idiot with the stupid statement "weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once" You have all but acknowledged that was factually false. You have all but literally walked away from that by now saying well it wasn't his team because even though most of the players on the team were his not enough of them played enough minutes to meet your moving criteria. Don't move the goal post now! Don't get so angry and annoyed that you don't get to be percieved as all knowing about the Illini on here!

i would guess that somewhere around 98% of people, who even somewhat casually follow the sport of college basketball, would tell you that if a team's top four scorers and minutes per game players were recruited by a previous coach then the team isn't really the current coaches team regardless of how many of "his guys" are riding the pine. of course that's just my opinion and the opinion of almost every other rational brain thinking human out there. you do what you want and don't let anyone try to convince you not to.

And then they would be factually wrong unless they are of the belief that it isn't a coaches team until all of the players are his. When 5 of the 9 regulars are the current coaches and the coach has been there 3 years, guess what it's his team unless your arguement is that it's not his team until it's all his players. Otherwise then your arguemnt is Weber can't be judged by anything that happens this year so no matter how awful KSU may be this year it's not on him since the top 4 players in minutes will be Martin's players. We know Weber can win with other coaches players so if he doesn't win this year then it's not a reflection on him it's because of Franks players since it's Franks team? When is it his team, is it when all of the players are his? When the majority of the players who see regular playing time are his? When none of the starters are the previous coaches?

[puniraptor]

you are probably used to people resorting to name-calling against you.

[sunny_cat]

I forgot what this thread is about.

[0.42]

i have three credit cards

[sunny_cat]

Let's get angry for Pitt State!!!1

 

[quietstorm5]

All others on the team could be webs guys but if the top 4 scorers and min played are selfs guys, its a self team.  Argue technicality and number of useless guys all you want.

What most people call a technicality is a provable fact! When 5 of the 9 guys who play 10 minutes or more per game or his players and 6 out 10 who saw regular minutes in over half the games played on a team in year 3 of a coach most people call that his team because the majority of the players playing are his. If you disagree define when it becomes his team. At what point does it become his team? since obviously it isn't when the majority of the guys playing being his isn't the line of demarcation for you.

[felix rex]

you are probably used to people resorting to name-calling against you.

[catzacker]

i'm assuming quietstorm is Jay Price unless otherwise noted.

[Dr Rick Daris]

storm is excoriating the always angry too cool for schoolers.

Not really.  And he's making stuff up.

weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once.  He did, however, finish 9th twice with his own players.

weber's an inarticulate, insecure rube who can't recruit or manage a big-time program and that's why he's not a top 50 coach.  Using 5 year rolling periods, with his own players, weber had the 13th worst 5 year period in Illinois history (his last 5 years).  That's out of 100 or so such periods.  He was in the 13th percentile.

That sucks.

Frank beat 3 Top 10 teams with essentially a year younger team, and won a game in the NCAA on top of it. I think he would have done alright with the team last year.

Weber did in fact finish 2nd twice in the BigTen with rosters of all or mostly his players. 05-06 and 08-09. Pretty simple math count the players on the roster count who were his recruits and if more were his recruits then lo-and behold it's a team of mostly his players.

The top four guys in 05-06 in minutes per and scoring were all Self recruits.  Dee and James were seniors on that team.  That wasn't a oscar squad.  Suggesting otherwise based on total number of players recruited on the squad confirms you as a dumbfuck.

I believe you confirmed that about yourself that last time you attempted to correct me and got proven wrong. Only to be a little girl and resort to name calling. So according to you it's not a coaches sqaud until all the players are his not just most of the players but all of them? When all of the starters are his? When only the top rotation players are his? You started off by proving your an idiot with the stupid statement "weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once" You have all but acknowledged that was factually false. You have all but literally walked away from that by now saying well it wasn't his team because even though most of the players on the team were his not enough of them played enough minutes to meet your moving criteria. Don't move the goal post now! Don't get so angry and annoyed that you don't get to be percieved as all knowing about the Illini on here!

i would guess that somewhere around 98% of people, who even somewhat casually follow the sport of college basketball, would tell you that if a team's top four scorers and minutes per game players were recruited by a previous coach then the team isn't really the current coaches team regardless of how many of "his guys" are riding the pine. of course that's just my opinion and the opinion of almost every other rational brain thinking human out there. you do what you want and don't let anyone try to convince you not to.

And then they would be factually wrong unless they are of the belief that it isn't a coaches team until all of the players are his. When 5 of the 9 regulars are the current coaches and the coach has been there 3 years, guess what it's his team unless your arguement is that it's not his team until it's all his players. Otherwise then your arguemnt is Weber can't be judged by anything that happens this year so no matter how awful KSU may be this year it's not on him since the top 4 players in minutes will be Martin's players. We know Weber can win with other coaches players so if he doesn't win this year then it's not a reflection on him it's because of Franks players since it's Franks team? When is it his team, is it when all of the players are his? When the majority of the players who see regular playing time are his? When none of the starters are the previous coaches?

well i would say that some (most?) humans have the ability to critically think. that is to say that there does not need to be a specific formula for them to decide if a team is or isn't a direct reflection of the current coach (his team). the illinois one would obvioiusly fail for most (all?) rational humans with the ability to critically assess. top four scorers? top four ppg? that one is easy. very. last years was also obviously not his. obviously. just like the illinois one that we just got done chatting about. but this years? this years? that's tougher. if oscar wouldn't have chased off angel and adrian then i would say still not his. now? i'm not so sure. interesting question though. maybe a new thread is needed?

[quietstorm5]

storm is excoriating the always angry too cool for schoolers.

Not really.  And he's making stuff up.

weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once.  He did, however, finish 9th twice with his own players.

weber's an inarticulate, insecure rube who can't recruit or manage a big-time program and that's why he's not a top 50 coach.  Using 5 year rolling periods, with his own players, weber had the 13th worst 5 year period in Illinois history (his last 5 years).  That's out of 100 or so such periods.  He was in the 13th percentile.

That sucks.

Frank beat 3 Top 10 teams with essentially a year younger team, and won a game in the NCAA on top of it. I think he would have done alright with the team last year.

Weber did in fact finish 2nd twice in the BigTen with rosters of all or mostly his players. 05-06 and 08-09. Pretty simple math count the players on the roster count who were his recruits and if more were his recruits then lo-and behold it's a team of mostly his players.

The top four guys in 05-06 in minutes per and scoring were all Self recruits.  Dee and James were seniors on that team.  That wasn't a oscar squad.  Suggesting otherwise based on total number of players recruited on the squad confirms you as a dumbfuck.

I believe you confirmed that about yourself that last time you attempted to correct me and got proven wrong. Only to be a little girl and resort to name calling. So according to you it's not a coaches sqaud until all the players are his not just most of the players but all of them? When all of the starters are his? When only the top rotation players are his? You started off by proving your an idiot with the stupid statement "weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once" You have all but acknowledged that was factually false. You have all but literally walked away from that by now saying well it wasn't his team because even though most of the players on the team were his not enough of them played enough minutes to meet your moving criteria. Don't move the goal post now! Don't get so angry and annoyed that you don't get to be percieved as all knowing about the Illini on here!

i would guess that somewhere around 98% of people, who even somewhat casually follow the sport of college basketball, would tell you that if a team's top four scorers and minutes per game players were recruited by a previous coach then the team isn't really the current coaches team regardless of how many of "his guys" are riding the pine. of course that's just my opinion and the opinion of almost every other rational brain thinking human out there. you do what you want and don't let anyone try to convince you not to.

And then they would be factually wrong unless they are of the belief that it isn't a coaches team until all of the players are his. When 5 of the 9 regulars are the current coaches and the coach has been there 3 years, guess what it's his team unless your arguement is that it's not his team until it's all his players. Otherwise then your arguemnt is Weber can't be judged by anything that happens this year so no matter how awful KSU may be this year it's not on him since the top 4 players in minutes will be Martin's players. We know Weber can win with other coaches players so if he doesn't win this year then it's not a reflection on him it's because of Franks players since it's Franks team? When is it his team, is it when all of the players are his? When the majority of the players who see regular playing time are his? When none of the starters are the previous coaches?

well i would say that some (most?) humans have the ability to critically think. that is to say that there does not need to be a specific formula for them to decide if a team is or isn't a direct reflection of the current coach (his team). the illinois one would obvioiusly fail for most (all?) rational humans with the ability to critically assess. top four scorers? top four ppg? that one is easy. very. last years was also obviously not his. obviously. just like the illinois one that we just got done chatting about. but this years? this years? that's tougher. if oscar wouldn't have chased off angel and adrian then i would say still not his. now? i'm not so sure. interesting question though. maybe a new thread is needed?

Thanks for at least attempting to answer the quetion. The fact that you seem to be non-commital about your answer though continues to prove my point. If the 05-06 Illini team wasn't Weber's despite 5 of the 9 players who played 10 minutes or more being his and despite 6 out of the 10 who played regularly being his how is there any question about whether this years KSU team is his or not? It will have almost the same construct and make up as that 05-06 Illini team especially in the non-conference,  with this being only his 2nd year at KSU as opposed to his 3rd at Illinois? You either go with actual static data and facts and not "it feels like or because most people would say" crutches. It's simple it's either when the majority of the guys playing are yours or when they are all yours. Not some contorted view that you can't quantify because it fits what you already want to believe. Otherwise it would be no problem for you to just say this years KSU team is still Frank's.  depending on only actual facts and and not crutches of "everyone would say" or "most people would think" makes things a lot simpler.

[Mr Bread]

storm is excoriating the always angry too cool for schoolers.

Not really.  And he's making stuff up.

weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once.  He did, however, finish 9th twice with his own players.

weber's an inarticulate, insecure rube who can't recruit or manage a big-time program and that's why he's not a top 50 coach.  Using 5 year rolling periods, with his own players, weber had the 13th worst 5 year period in Illinois history (his last 5 years).  That's out of 100 or so such periods.  He was in the 13th percentile.

That sucks.

Frank beat 3 Top 10 teams with essentially a year younger team, and won a game in the NCAA on top of it. I think he would have done alright with the team last year.

Weber did in fact finish 2nd twice in the BigTen with rosters of all or mostly his players. 05-06 and 08-09. Pretty simple math count the players on the roster count who were his recruits and if more were his recruits then lo-and behold it's a team of mostly his players.

The top four guys in 05-06 in minutes per and scoring were all Self recruits.  Dee and James were seniors on that team.  That wasn't a oscar squad.  Suggesting otherwise based on total number of players recruited on the squad confirms you as a dumbfuck.

I believe you confirmed that about yourself that last time you attempted to correct me and got proven wrong. Only to be a little girl and resort to name calling. So according to you it's not a coaches sqaud until all the players are his not just most of the players but all of them? When all of the starters are his? When only the top rotation players are his? You started off by proving your an idiot with the stupid statement "weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once" You have all but acknowledged that was factually false. You have all but literally walked away from that by now saying well it wasn't his team because even though most of the players on the team were his not enough of them played enough minutes to meet your moving criteria. Don't move the goal post now! Don't get so angry and annoyed that you don't get to be percieved as all knowing about the Illini on here!

You were actually arguing with two different people here dumbfuck.  I'm not feartheillini. 

[Dr Rick Daris]

storm is excoriating the always angry too cool for schoolers.

Not really.  And he's making stuff up.

weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once.  He did, however, finish 9th twice with his own players.

weber's an inarticulate, insecure rube who can't recruit or manage a big-time program and that's why he's not a top 50 coach.  Using 5 year rolling periods, with his own players, weber had the 13th worst 5 year period in Illinois history (his last 5 years).  That's out of 100 or so such periods.  He was in the 13th percentile.

That sucks.

Frank beat 3 Top 10 teams with essentially a year younger team, and won a game in the NCAA on top of it. I think he would have done alright with the team last year.

Weber did in fact finish 2nd twice in the BigTen with rosters of all or mostly his players. 05-06 and 08-09. Pretty simple math count the players on the roster count who were his recruits and if more were his recruits then lo-and behold it's a team of mostly his players.

The top four guys in 05-06 in minutes per and scoring were all Self recruits.  Dee and James were seniors on that team.  That wasn't a oscar squad.  Suggesting otherwise based on total number of players recruited on the squad confirms you as a dumbfuck.

I believe you confirmed that about yourself that last time you attempted to correct me and got proven wrong. Only to be a little girl and resort to name calling. So according to you it's not a coaches sqaud until all the players are his not just most of the players but all of them? When all of the starters are his? When only the top rotation players are his? You started off by proving your an idiot with the stupid statement "weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once" You have all but acknowledged that was factually false. You have all but literally walked away from that by now saying well it wasn't his team because even though most of the players on the team were his not enough of them played enough minutes to meet your moving criteria. Don't move the goal post now! Don't get so angry and annoyed that you don't get to be percieved as all knowing about the Illini on here!

i would guess that somewhere around 98% of people, who even somewhat casually follow the sport of college basketball, would tell you that if a team's top four scorers and minutes per game players were recruited by a previous coach then the team isn't really the current coaches team regardless of how many of "his guys" are riding the pine. of course that's just my opinion and the opinion of almost every other rational brain thinking human out there. you do what you want and don't let anyone try to convince you not to.

And then they would be factually wrong unless they are of the belief that it isn't a coaches team until all of the players are his. When 5 of the 9 regulars are the current coaches and the coach has been there 3 years, guess what it's his team unless your arguement is that it's not his team until it's all his players. Otherwise then your arguemnt is Weber can't be judged by anything that happens this year so no matter how awful KSU may be this year it's not on him since the top 4 players in minutes will be Martin's players. We know Weber can win with other coaches players so if he doesn't win this year then it's not a reflection on him it's because of Franks players since it's Franks team? When is it his team, is it when all of the players are his? When the majority of the players who see regular playing time are his? When none of the starters are the previous coaches?

well i would say that some (most?) humans have the ability to critically think. that is to say that there does not need to be a specific formula for them to decide if a team is or isn't a direct reflection of the current coach (his team). the illinois one would obvioiusly fail for most (all?) rational humans with the ability to critically assess. top four scorers? top four ppg? that one is easy. very. last years was also obviously not his. obviously. just like the illinois one that we just got done chatting about. but this years? this years? that's tougher. if oscar wouldn't have chased off angel and adrian then i would say still not his. now? i'm not so sure. interesting question though. maybe a new thread is needed?

Thanks for at least attempting to answer the quetion. The fact that you seem to be non-commital about your answer though continues to prove my point. If the 05-06 Illini team wasn't Weber's despite 5 of the 9 players who played 10 minutes or more being his and despite 6 out of the 10 who played regularly being his how is there any question about whether this years KSU team is his or not? It will have almost the same construct and make up as that 05-06 Illini team especially in the non-conference,  with this being only his 2nd year at KSU as opposed to his 3rd at Illinois? You either go with actual static data and facts and not "it feels like or because most people would say" crutches. It's simple it's either when the majority of the guys playing are yours or when they are all yours. Not some contorted view that you can't quantify because it fits what you already want to believe. Otherwise it would be no problem for you to just say this years KSU team is still Frank's.  depending on only actual facts and and not crutches of "everyone would say" or "most people would think" makes things a lot simpler.

hey dork- nobody can answer your question about this year because a single game hasn't even been played yet. did foster wrestle away a starting job? did nigel average 20 minutes a game. did DJamer lock down the four spot? nobody knows. there is no data to analyze. of course i'm going to be a non-commital. last years team-not oscar's team. that other illinois team-not oscar's team. this year? dunno yet. if you have the end of the year stats by way of time machine of something then shoot them over to me. i'll spend roughly 11 seconds looking at them and get back to you about whose "team" it was.

[catzacker]

wasn't it jay price who got on message boards to defense oscar at illinois?

[Mr Bread]

storm is excoriating the always angry too cool for schoolers.

Not really.  And he's making stuff up.

weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once.  He did, however, finish 9th twice with his own players.

weber's an inarticulate, insecure rube who can't recruit or manage a big-time program and that's why he's not a top 50 coach.  Using 5 year rolling periods, with his own players, weber had the 13th worst 5 year period in Illinois history (his last 5 years).  That's out of 100 or so such periods.  He was in the 13th percentile.

That sucks.

Frank beat 3 Top 10 teams with essentially a year younger team, and won a game in the NCAA on top of it. I think he would have done alright with the team last year.

Weber did in fact finish 2nd twice in the BigTen with rosters of all or mostly his players. 05-06 and 08-09. Pretty simple math count the players on the roster count who were his recruits and if more were his recruits then lo-and behold it's a team of mostly his players.

The top four guys in 05-06 in minutes per and scoring were all Self recruits.  Dee and James were seniors on that team.  That wasn't a oscar squad.  Suggesting otherwise based on total number of players recruited on the squad confirms you as a dumbfuck.

I believe you confirmed that about yourself that last time you attempted to correct me and got proven wrong. Only to be a little girl and resort to name calling. So according to you it's not a coaches sqaud until all the players are his not just most of the players but all of them? When all of the starters are his? When only the top rotation players are his? You started off by proving your an idiot with the stupid statement "weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once" You have all but acknowledged that was factually false. You have all but literally walked away from that by now saying well it wasn't his team because even though most of the players on the team were his not enough of them played enough minutes to meet your moving criteria. Don't move the goal post now! Don't get so angry and annoyed that you don't get to be percieved as all knowing about the Illini on here!

i would guess that somewhere around 98% of people, who even somewhat casually follow the sport of college basketball, would tell you that if a team's top four scorers and minutes per game players were recruited by a previous coach then the team isn't really the current coaches team regardless of how many of "his guys" are riding the pine. of course that's just my opinion and the opinion of almost every other rational brain thinking human out there. you do what you want and don't let anyone try to convince you not to.

And then they would be factually wrong unless they are of the belief that it isn't a coaches team until all of the players are his. When 5 of the 9 regulars are the current coaches and the coach has been there 3 years, guess what it's his team unless your arguement is that it's not his team until it's all his players. Otherwise then your arguemnt is Weber can't be judged by anything that happens this year so no matter how awful KSU may be this year it's not on him since the top 4 players in minutes will be Martin's players. We know Weber can win with other coaches players so if he doesn't win this year then it's not a reflection on him it's because of Franks players since it's Franks team? When is it his team, is it when all of the players are his? When the majority of the players who see regular playing time are his? When none of the starters are the previous coaches?

well i would say that some (most?) humans have the ability to critically think. that is to say that there does not need to be a specific formula for them to decide if a team is or isn't a direct reflection of the current coach (his team). the illinois one would obvioiusly fail for most (all?) rational humans with the ability to critically assess. top four scorers? top four ppg? that one is easy. very. last years was also obviously not his. obviously. just like the illinois one that we just got done chatting about. but this years? this years? that's tougher. if oscar wouldn't have chased off angel and adrian then i would say still not his. now? i'm not so sure. interesting question though. maybe a new thread is needed?

Thanks for at least attempting to answer the quetion. The fact that you seem to be non-commital about your answer though continues to prove my point. If the 05-06 Illini team wasn't Weber's despite 5 of the 9 players who played 10 minutes or more being his and despite 6 out of the 10 who played regularly being his how is there any question about whether this years KSU team is his or not? It will have almost the same construct and make up as that 05-06 Illini team especially in the non-conference,  with this being only his 2nd year at KSU as opposed to his 3rd at Illinois? You either go with actual static data and facts and not "it feels like or because most people would say" crutches. It's simple it's either when the majority of the guys playing are yours or when they are all yours. Not some contorted view that you can't quantify because it fits what you already want to believe. Otherwise it would be no problem for you to just say this years KSU team is still Frank's.  depending on only actual facts and and not crutches of "everyone would say" or "most people would think" makes things a lot simpler.

Also, dumbfuck, oscar didn't recruit Warren Carter.  That's a Self stud from Texas.  So by your logic that would make it 4 of 9 oscar rotation guys.  Not his team now?

[quietstorm5]

storm is excoriating the always angry too cool for schoolers.

Not really.  And he's making stuff up.

weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once.  He did, however, finish 9th twice with his own players.

weber's an inarticulate, insecure rube who can't recruit or manage a big-time program and that's why he's not a top 50 coach.  Using 5 year rolling periods, with his own players, weber had the 13th worst 5 year period in Illinois history (his last 5 years).  That's out of 100 or so such periods.  He was in the 13th percentile.

That sucks.

Frank beat 3 Top 10 teams with essentially a year younger team, and won a game in the NCAA on top of it. I think he would have done alright with the team last year.

Weber did in fact finish 2nd twice in the BigTen with rosters of all or mostly his players. 05-06 and 08-09. Pretty simple math count the players on the roster count who were his recruits and if more were his recruits then lo-and behold it's a team of mostly his players.

The top four guys in 05-06 in minutes per and scoring were all Self recruits.  Dee and James were seniors on that team.  That wasn't a oscar squad.  Suggesting otherwise based on total number of players recruited on the squad confirms you as a dumbfuck.

I believe you confirmed that about yourself that last time you attempted to correct me and got proven wrong. Only to be a little girl and resort to name calling. So according to you it's not a coaches sqaud until all the players are his not just most of the players but all of them? When all of the starters are his? When only the top rotation players are his? You started off by proving your an idiot with the stupid statement "weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once" You have all but acknowledged that was factually false. You have all but literally walked away from that by now saying well it wasn't his team because even though most of the players on the team were his not enough of them played enough minutes to meet your moving criteria. Don't move the goal post now! Don't get so angry and annoyed that you don't get to be percieved as all knowing about the Illini on here!

You were actually arguing with two different people here dumbfuck.  I'm not feartheillini.

Uh-oh did your feelings get hurt again? I could have sworn you and Fear were the same guy on here and the Illini boards. You were the only idiots to try and prove me wrong about Quinton Watkins only to get be so easily proven wrong. My fault if you two aren't on in the same.

[Mr Bread]

wasn't it jay price who got on message boards to defense oscar at illinois?

Yes, but that was when he worked for oscar.  Would be nearly unfathomably pathetic if he were still doing it after oscar dropped him as dead weight.   

[steve dave]

only to get be so easily proven wrong

[CNS]

I would absolutely love an assistant getting on here to play defense and discuss things like recruiting failure.

[steve dave]

I would absolutely love an assistant getting on here to play defense and discuss things like recruiting failure.

yes, please