Spirited debate inspired by Dax.

[pissclams]

good post vonlintel

[feartheillini]

storm is excoriating the always angry too cool for schoolers.

Not really.  And he's making stuff up.

weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once.  He did, however, finish 9th twice with his own players.

weber's an inarticulate, insecure rube who can't recruit or manage a big-time program and that's why he's not a top 50 coach.  Using 5 year rolling periods, with his own players, weber had the 13th worst 5 year period in Illinois history (his last 5 years).  That's out of 100 or so such periods.  He was in the 13th percentile.

That sucks.

Frank beat 3 Top 10 teams with essentially a year younger team, and won a game in the NCAA on top of it. I think he would have done alright with the team last year.

[MakeItRain]

Wow, 7 pages of arguing with Dax's regurtitated talking points. Its an amazing skill to not address anyone's point directly but just reiterate his own point over and over yet get people to repeatedly respond. I came on here to see if he ever answered my question to start all of this, I'm a dumbass for expecting that and even dumber for reading these 7 pages expecting something different.

[ksupamplemousse]

Wow, 7 pages of arguing with Dax's regurtitated talking points. Its an amazing skill to not address anyone's point directly but just reiterate his own point over and over yet get people to repeatedly respond. I came on here to see if he ever answered my question to start all of this, I'm a dumbass for expecting that and even dumber for reading these 7 pages expecting something different.

 

[MakeItRain]

I'm on team #playitout. 

oscar did better with Frank's players than Frank could do with his players. 

This year, well, we're a midmajor.  Tallest player is 6'6?

oscar is a pretty average coach in the BigXII.  xs and os may be above average, but he hasn't shown great results recruiting, thus far. 

 

Reasonable enough. Have you thought about what your line would be? Will you measure him by the state of the program when he arrived or on his own merits?

[puniraptor]

if oscar can be successful with this roster, then i will buy in.

if oscar fails with this roster then i will BID (quit)

if oscar is middle of the road then i will cry (quit)

[ksupamplemousse]

I was okay with Frank fielding a bubble team his 2nd year, and I'd be cool with oscar fielding a bubble team in his 2nd year. If this season is a disaster though, I would hope that he'd have a very short leash. Every year after this year better be a tourney team, with enough talent in the program to make a run every 3-4 years. If oscar is able to maintain that level of success, then I would be comfortable with him guiding the ship until he retires. If we start missing the tourney every other year it's time for him to go though, I think 2 NIT appearances in 3 years should be enough to cost him his job. We can't afford to waste the limited amount of momentum we've built with our bball program.

[Belvis Noland]

Reasonable enough. Have you thought about what your line would be? Will you measure him by the state of the program when he arrived or on his own merits?

Sure. oscar should be measured by the state of the program when he arrived. Top 25 program, top 3rd of League, consistent NCAAs.  Anything less is fireable, IMO.

Over next 5 years, he needs to be in 4 NCAAs.  If he can do that, he'll have met and surpassed Frank. Because, of course, he got the title frank never sniffed. 

[Cartierfor3]

Reasonable enough. Have you thought about what your line would be? Will you measure him by the state of the program when he arrived or on his own merits?

Sure. oscar should be measured by the state of the program when he arrived. Top 25 program, top 3rd of League, consistent NCAAs.  Anything less is fireable, IMO.

Over next 5 years, he needs to be in 4 NCAAs.  If he can do that, he'll have met and surpassed Frank. Because, of course, he got the title frank never sniffed.

Put me down for this. I don't know that ANYTHING less is fireable, but it better be in the ballpark.

[Mixed-Nutz]

I was okay with Frank fielding a bubble team his 2nd year, and I'd be cool with oscar fielding a bubble team in his 2nd year. If this season is a disaster though, I would hope that he'd have a very short leash. Every year after this year better be a tourney team, with enough talent in the program to make a run every 3-4 years. If oscar is able to maintain that level of success, then I would be comfortable with him guiding the ship until he retires. If we start missing the tourney every other year it's time for him to go though, I think 2 NIT appearances in 3 years should be enough to cost him his job. We can't afford to waste the limited amount of momentum we've built with our bball program.

Will judge him solely on how good Jevon, Marcus, Wesley and Nigel are in big 12 play and how they fit in his system. Do they give us a future. I really don't care what he does this year, I want to have hope for the next 3. He can coach but his problem has always be bring in players that fit his system.   

[sunny_cat]

Reasonable enough. Have you thought about what your line would be? Will you measure him by the state of the program when he arrived or on his own merits?

Sure. oscar should be measured by the state of the program when he arrived. Top 25 program, top 3rd of League, consistent NCAAs.  Anything less is fireable, IMO.

Over next 5 years, he needs to be in 4 NCAAs.  If he can do that, he'll have met and surpassed Frank. Because, of course, he got the title frank never sniffed.

 

[Belvis Noland]

Reasonable enough. Have you thought about what your line would be? Will you measure him by the state of the program when he arrived or on his own merits?

Sure. oscar should be measured by the state of the program when he arrived. Top 25 program, top 3rd of League, consistent NCAAs.  Anything less is fireable, IMO.

Over next 5 years, he needs to be in 4 NCAAs.  If he can do that, he'll have met and surpassed Frank. Because, of course, he got the title frank never sniffed.

Put me down for this. I don't know that ANYTHING less is fireable, but it better be in the ballpark.

Context.  I mean, if he gets another title or elite 8 or something, I suppose he could get away with another NIT/rebuild season.  #playitout

[sunny_cat]

#teamplayitout

[wetwillie]

If weber can make the dance with a team full of his Missouri valley recruits we ought to build him a statue for SD to kick balls at.

[sunny_cat]

If weber can make the dance with a team full of his Missouri valley recruits we ought to build him a statue for SD to kick balls at.

 

[puniraptor]

If weber can make the dance with a team full of his Missouri valley recruits we ought to build him a statue for SD to kick balls at.

 

this sounds totally fair

[CNS]

Making the dance is not the measure I want. When you have something good, you only volunteer to make changes if it is to better the program.  I like the top three in conf measure, but he needs to push past just making the tournament.  Our national brand is suffering in the media. He needs to put a halt to that and reverse it.  Also, this year's recruits are everything. It's a decent sized class. He needs one to pay off big, at min and to completely turn around what has been a crap show of recruiting next class and the one after. 

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

[quietstorm5]

storm is excoriating the always angry too cool for schoolers.

Not really.  And he's making stuff up.

weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once.  He did, however, finish 9th twice with his own players.

weber's an inarticulate, insecure rube who can't recruit or manage a big-time program and that's why he's not a top 50 coach.  Using 5 year rolling periods, with his own players, weber had the 13th worst 5 year period in Illinois history (his last 5 years).  That's out of 100 or so such periods.  He was in the 13th percentile.

That sucks.

Frank beat 3 Top 10 teams with essentially a year younger team, and won a game in the NCAA on top of it. I think he would have done alright with the team last year.

So I see we have to do this again huh How often do you have to challenge me on facts only to be proven wrong? Unlike you I don't have any wierd, overly emotional reaction to Weber so I can look at actual facts and not look for ways to manipulate them to fit my predetermined preference. Weber did in fact finish 2nd twice in the BigTen with rosters of all or mostly his players. 05-06 and 08-09. Pretty simple math count the players on the roster count who were his recruits and if more were his recruits then lo-and behold it's a team of mostly his players. If that simple math doesn't work for you then you can't say he finished 9th twice with teams of all his players because one of those teams weren't all his players! Once again don't try and be a douche and correct someone about Illini facts when it's someon who has more knowledge about them than you!! 

[puniraptor]

if we are good then i will probably say that oscar is just a figure head arm crosser foot stomper and chet is the real coaching mastermind

[catzacker]

hey guys, oscar finished second with his guys at Illinois.  let's get excited.

[sonofdaxjones]

This has been a spirited and lively debate.

I won of course, but thanks to each and every one of you for participating.

Ever in EMAW,

Dax

[yoga-like_abana]

[sonofdaxjones]

Isn't that precious. 

[Winters]

if we are good then i will probably say that oscar is just a figure head arm crosser foot stomper and chet is the real coaching mastermind

yes, all credit should go to chet.

[Mr Bread]

storm is excoriating the always angry too cool for schoolers.

Not really.  And he's making stuff up.

weber didn't finish 2nd twice with mostly his own players.  He did it once.  He did, however, finish 9th twice with his own players.

weber's an inarticulate, insecure rube who can't recruit or manage a big-time program and that's why he's not a top 50 coach.  Using 5 year rolling periods, with his own players, weber had the 13th worst 5 year period in Illinois history (his last 5 years).  That's out of 100 or so such periods.  He was in the 13th percentile.

That sucks.

Frank beat 3 Top 10 teams with essentially a year younger team, and won a game in the NCAA on top of it. I think he would have done alright with the team last year.

Weber did in fact finish 2nd twice in the BigTen with rosters of all or mostly his players. 05-06 and 08-09. Pretty simple math count the players on the roster count who were his recruits and if more were his recruits then lo-and behold it's a team of mostly his players.

The top four guys in 05-06 in minutes per and scoring were all Self recruits.  Dee and James were seniors on that team.  That wasn't a oscar squad.  Suggesting otherwise based on total number of players recruited on the squad confirms you as a dumbfuck.