Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.

[Katpappy]

Jake doesn't throw interceptions as much anymore and I like that

H2O seems to be more accurate this year.  Hope it due to the 5 to 8 seconds he gets from the O-Line.

[steve dave]

Jake doesn't throw interceptions as much anymore and I like that

H2O seems to be more accurate this year.  Hope it due to the 5 to 8 seconds he gets from the O-Line.

yeah, last year he was H3O because we couldn't convert. Now we are amazing on 3rd down.

[steve dave]

it's hilarious that people call him a duel threat though. he's still very timid on the run. maybe because he got dinged up, I don't know. without a QB run game we suck complete ass running the ball.

[pissclams]

I think he's still hurt or at least worried about getting hurt again, hence his issues running the ball

[bucket]

it's hilarious that people call him a duel threat though. he's still very timid on the run. maybe because he got dinged up, I don't know. without a QB run game we suck complete ass running the ball.

Not why this team sucks ass running the ball.

Correction, part of the reason this team sucks at running the football.

[steve dave]

I think he's still hurt or at least worried about getting hurt again, hence his issues running the ball

yeah, we don't run designed QB run at all now. which hurts our running game that is 100% based off of a QB running threat. whatever works though. Bill is one of the only coaches that can go from high % yards rushing one game to 0 the next and win both. that's such a ridiculous anomaly (stat guys back me up here)

[bubbles4ksu]

some people are just going to kill jake no matter what.  even with 0 running game we averaged 6.3 ypp tonight.  that's still a pretty effective offense. 

jake was bad in the running game and our offense inside the red-zone was pretty lousy, but i mean, if your upset, there are 5 offensive lineman and two runningbacks and two offensive coordinators that deserve more criticism than waters tonight.

i agree with this and with the fact that we should have a better qb than waters. it's v frustrating.

You can't say this so definitively if the better QB you're referring to is Sams.

[Katpappy]

it's hilarious that people call him a duel threat though. he's still very timid on the run. maybe because he got dinged up, I don't know. without a QB run game we suck complete ass running the ball.

I noticed that too.  He has that "I'm just a NFL, "don't hurt me as I slide" type of mentality. 

[steve dave]

some people are just going to kill jake no matter what.  even with 0 running game we averaged 6.3 ypp tonight.  that's still a pretty effective offense. 

jake was bad in the running game and our offense inside the red-zone was pretty lousy, but i mean, if your upset, there are 5 offensive lineman and two runningbacks and two offensive coordinators that deserve more criticism than waters tonight.

i agree with this and with the fact that we should have a better qb than waters. it's v frustrating.

You can't say this so definitively if the better QB you're referring to is Sams.

explain, I'm at a 5 and don't know what you mean

[michigancat]

Jake runs like an idiot now that he's hurt. Why does he jump so much?

[star seed 7]

Jake runs like an idiot now that he's hurt. Why does he jump so much?

hey always ran like an idiot, it's just like a super idiot now

[kso_FAN]

11.8 yards per pass attempt tonight.  that's an efficient passing offense. 

considering WVU is actually a pretty good pass defense, it makes me wonder if they did something schematically to stop the run and make waters and the gang beat them (which he did).

Was it the 3-4 defense?

Well...they run a 3-3-5 so i doubt it.

I obviously don't know defensive alignments.  The commentators talked about the 3 down linemen lined up on the center and guards clogging the middle... 

Yes. Then they stack 3 LBs over those DL and blitz a ton. 2 corners and a free safety with 2 other safeties that really play almost like OLBs at times behind those 6. I wasn't able to watch closely, but they stacked the box and we didn't handle the blitzes against the run at all. Surprisingly though we seem to pass protect pretty well and when Jake has time he is going to connect with Lockett and Sexton.

I thought we made some bad decisions when we got into the redzone. Our best running game stuff came from wildcat or Waters in shotgun, but we seemed to insist on I formation stuff often and WV just stuffed it. Jake has never been good on speed option, but we seemed to insist on running it. Also, it seemed as though we didn't trust our passing game down there even thought between the 20s WV could never really stop us. Its really amazing the way we could use the passing game with only 1 yard rushing and still manage to win TOP, but its still extremely frustrating to move the ball like that and not finish drives with touchdowns. 6 trips inside the 20 getting only 16 points is unacceptable and Dimel absolutely must get that fixed. We absolutely have to find some ways to run the ball or KU could give us trouble and BU will beat us badly.

And of course Waters shoulder is still dinged and its why he runs timid. Its healed some and he looks more comfortable, but he's not running like he did before the injury and I can't blame him. I think its ridiculous to call him out for that, he's trying to keep himself on the field so we can win games. In fact, I'm sure he's coached to be very careful running the ball.

[steve dave]

_FAN we're used to people like collin and daniel getting the living crap beat out of them and still being expected to go out there and run the ball. it's natural. even if it's coached. I mean, I doubt bill ever coached collin not to barrel full speed into the line of scrimmage. I don't think jake was ever that great at running the ball so I agree with bill saving him. but I understand what people are saying. on the other hand, jake threw for 400 yards with no pics so here we are.

[DQ12]

yeah.  it's like k-state fans' only metric for judging a qb is how good the running game is, generally.  weird, but understandable.

[kim carnes]

consider this evidence re: waters sucking

we've played five decent/good teams this year, our offensive point totals in those games are:

14 - auburn
24 - ou
23 - texas
20 - tcu (6 of those were from hubener)
19 - wvu

conclusion: our offense under jake is complete dogshit against good/decent teams

[steve dave]

consider this evidence re: waters sucking

we've played five decent/good teams this year, our offensive point totals in those games are:

14 - auburn
24 - ou
23 - texas
20 - tcu (6 of those were from hubener)
19 - wvu

conclusion: our offense under jake is complete dogshit against good/decent teams

yeah, I'd say our offense is not as good against good/decent teams as it is otherwise

[kso_FAN]

_FAN we're used to people like collin and daniel getting the living crap beat out of them and still being expected to go out there and run the ball. it's natural. even if it's coached. I mean, I doubt bill ever coached collin not to barrel full speed into the line of scrimmage. I don't think jake was ever that great at running the ball so I agree with bill saving him. but I understand what people are saying. on the other hand, jake threw for 400 yards with no pics so here we are.

Of course.

But it doesn't take that much to realize the biggest asset for Jake Waters on this team is and has always been in the passing game and getting the ball to Tyler Lockett. We can debate the merit of the QB decision, but its THE reason he eventually won the job last year and the main reason for his success this year. I contended starting after the Texas game last year that Waters and Lockett had a special connection and if Waters could ever figure out his turnover issues that he would be a successful QB. For the most part that's what happened and I don't think just any QB could have done the same thing. So to me its absolutely stupid to think Jake should run the ball with abandon and get what IMO is a messed up AC joint messed up even more. If anything, I think we are running him too much, but I believe with the issues we have run blocking and with our backs that our staff feels that's the only way we can have any success running the ball.

Its not the best situation to be in, but its managed to put us at 8-2 with a shot at still winning this league. I honestly couldn't have asked for more coming into this season. And again, I'll take an ugly win any day.

[kso_FAN]

consider this evidence re: waters sucking

we've played five decent/good teams this year, our offensive point totals in those games are:

14 - auburn
24 - ou
23 - texas
20 - tcu (6 of those were from hubener)
19 - wvu

conclusion: our offense under jake is complete dogshit against good/decent teams

Yeah, it sucks to go 3-2 with 2 road wins against good teams. Absolutely sucks.

[steve dave]

_FAN we're used to people like collin and daniel getting the living crap beat out of them and still being expected to go out there and run the ball. it's natural. even if it's coached. I mean, I doubt bill ever coached collin not to barrel full speed into the line of scrimmage. I don't think jake was ever that great at running the ball so I agree with bill saving him. but I understand what people are saying. on the other hand, jake threw for 400 yards with no pics so here we are.

Of course.

But it doesn't take that much to realize the biggest asset for Jake Waters on this team is and has always been in the passing game and getting the ball to Tyler Lockett. We can debate the merit of the QB decision, but its THE reason he eventually won the job last year and the main reason for his success this year. I contended starting after the Texas game last year that Waters and Lockett had a special connection and if Waters could ever figure out his turnover issues that he would be a successful QB. For the most part that's what happened and I don't think just any QB could have done the same thing. So to me its absolutely stupid to think Jake should run the ball with abandon and get what IMO is a messed up AC joint messed up even more. If anything, I think we are running him too much, but I believe with the issues we have run blocking and with our backs that our staff feels that's the only way we can have any success running the ball.

Its not the best situation to be in, but its managed to put us at 8-2 with a shot at still winning this league. I honestly couldn't have asked for more coming into this season. And again, I'll take an ugly win any day.

 

[kim carnes]

consider this evidence re: waters sucking

we've played five decent/good teams this year, our offensive point totals in those games are:

14 - auburn
24 - ou
23 - texas
20 - tcu (6 of those were from hubener)
19 - wvu

conclusion: our offense under jake is complete dogshit against good/decent teams

Yeah, it sucks to go 3-2 with 2 road wins against good teams. Absolutely sucks.

we're 0-2 against the two good teams we've played and 3-0 against the decent teams we've played.  we're nowhere near as good as our ranking and we'll likely be completely exposed by baylor.

[bones129]

I think he's still hurt or at least worried about getting hurt again, hence his issues running the ball

I think Bill is more concerned about Jake getting hurt than Jake is. And Jake doesn't call the plays unless it's a last second check.

[steve dave]

I think Jake is physically timid to begin with. Watching his own fumbles roll around made me not really a fan and I think that's just Jake. But, he is good at throwing the ball this year. Much better than last. I don't think he's "tough" and I said that before but I don't think he has to be tough for us to be good. He is best when he doesn't have to be tough. He's good when he can just throw the ball around and luckily he has the best WR we've ever had and another couple decent guys to throw to.

[steve dave]

Also he makes much better decisions this year. Not just in not throwing interceptions but in throwing the ball away and pocket stuff.

[catzacker]

11.8 yards per pass attempt tonight.  that's an efficient passing offense. 

considering WVU is actually a pretty good pass defense, it makes me wonder if they did something schematically to stop the run and make waters and the gang beat them (which he did).

Was it the 3-4 defense?

Well...they run a 3-3-5 so i doubt it.

I obviously don't know defensive alignments.  The commentators talked about the 3 down linemen lined up on the center and guards clogging the middle... 

Yes. Then they stack 3 LBs over those DL and blitz a ton. 2 corners and a free safety with 2 other safeties that really play almost like OLBs at times behind those 6. I wasn't able to watch closely, but they stacked the box and we didn't handle the blitzes against the run at all. Surprisingly though we seem to pass protect pretty well and when Jake has time he is going to connect with Lockett and Sexton.

I thought we made some bad decisions when we got into the redzone. Our best running game stuff came from wildcat or Waters in shotgun, but we seemed to insist on I formation stuff often and WV just stuffed it. Jake has never been good on speed option, but we seemed to insist on running it. Also, it seemed as though we didn't trust our passing game down there even thought between the 20s WV could never really stop us. Its really amazing the way we could use the passing game with only 1 yard rushing and still manage to win TOP, but its still extremely frustrating to move the ball like that and not finish drives with touchdowns. 6 trips inside the 20 getting only 16 points is unacceptable and Dimel absolutely must get that fixed. We absolutely have to find some ways to run the ball or KU could give us trouble and BU will beat us badly.

And of course Waters shoulder is still dinged and its why he runs timid. Its healed some and he looks more comfortable, but he's not running like he did before the injury and I can't blame him. I think its ridiculous to call him out for that, he's trying to keep himself on the field so we can win games. In fact, I'm sure he's coached to be very careful running the ball.

all waters had to do was pull the ball ONCE on one of those zone reads and he never did even though the DE (or whomever he was reading) was crashing hard.  and his pitches/reads on the speed option were horrendous.  Dimel absolutely deserves some blame for this offense sucking crap, so do our piss poor RB's.  But our QB's either (a) lack of ability or (b) lack of desire to run the qb run game effectively plays a major part of this offense being neutered.

if he's playing, he's up for full criticism.  I don't really care about his injuries.  I never cared if CK was fully healthy.  If you're out there, then play.  otherwise, let's go with Hubes.  And I'm serious about that.   

[420seriouscat69]

This thread is something.

Does this thread hurt the image of K-State/this blog?