Author Topic: Kansas City things  (Read 1006873 times)

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Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7025 on: May 12, 2017, 09:55:42 AM »
Still waiting on you to explain the financing so we can discuss ....

Offline kim carnes

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7026 on: May 12, 2017, 10:13:33 AM »
Bmd would handle the competitive bidding part themselves. Only the design phase would be not bid, but I think that's very fair given they are financing the thing. Bmd is still a business, and they will have outside investors to answer to as well.

The best part of this is 'clams has repeatedly held that businesses don't want a new airport, but here is a local company that wants one bad enough to spend a billion of their own money  :lol:

yep, here's a local company who will make hundreds of millions of dollars from the project, supporting it.  it's so insane!  sad.

They will absolutely not make hundreds of millions from this project.

Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7027 on: May 12, 2017, 11:01:04 AM »
Dems love spending tax payers $ on dumb crap  :frown:

taxes are not, and have never been, a part of the airport financing.

the resistance to the new airport is based on people assuming airfares will go up being clueless. 

Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7028 on: May 12, 2017, 11:02:52 AM »
We need some more of those non-profit architecture/engineering firms in KCMO.  Think of how much cheaper all of our local projects would be!

Offline pissclams

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7029 on: May 12, 2017, 11:06:53 AM »
Bmd would handle the competitive bidding part themselves. Only the design phase would be not bid, but I think that's very fair given they are financing the thing. Bmd is still a business, and they will have outside investors to answer to as well.

The best part of this is 'clams has repeatedly held that businesses don't want a new airport, but here is a local company that wants one bad enough to spend a billion of their own money  :lol:

yep, here's a local company who will make hundreds of millions of dollars from the project, supporting it.  it's so insane!  sad.

They will absolutely not make hundreds of millions from this project.

what's their margin on their work?  15%?  how much are they making on the financing? 


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Offline pissclams

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7030 on: May 12, 2017, 11:08:28 AM »
We need some more of those non-profit architecture/engineering firms in KCMO.  Think of how much cheaper all of our local projects would be!

having such a narrowly focused perspective must be such a simple way to go through life, congrats!  sad.


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Offline meow meow

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7031 on: May 12, 2017, 11:18:54 AM »
Burns and Mac is not a non-profit

Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7032 on: May 12, 2017, 11:19:14 AM »
We need some more of those non-profit architecture/engineering firms in KCMO.  Think of how much cheaper all of our local projects would be!

having such a narrowly focused perspective must be such a simple way to go through life, congrats!  sad.

I know right?  :cheers: 

Offline camKSU

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7033 on: May 12, 2017, 12:05:23 PM »
 :Lurk:

So from what I've heard and read this seems to be pretty shady of an arrangement. The whole thing was decided in a couple weeks of behind-closed-door meetings with only specific city leaders and it is apparently already a done deal?

This is going to cause a crap-storm of PR issues for the city that largely could have been avoided had they told Burns & Mac, "Great idea! Now let's compare it to what other teams can propose and put forward and ultimately decide based on a fair, official, and open process". But no... Railroading it through is a far superior tactic  :bang:

Not to sound like a broken record but one reason this all is very fishy is that Burns & Mac has donated thousands to Mayor James and others within the City and have been awarded millions in tax breaks (TIFS) and public dollars in work over the years... Just another reason for campaign finance and ethics reforms.

 :th_twocents:

http://www.pitch.com/news/article/20565248/can-anyone-say-no-to-burns-mcdonnell
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Offline pissclams

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7034 on: May 12, 2017, 12:11:12 PM »
:Lurk:

So from what I've heard and read this seems to be pretty shady of an arrangement. The whole thing was decided in a couple weeks of behind-closed-door meetings with only specific city leaders and it is apparently already a done deal?

This is going to cause a crap-storm of PR issues for the city that largely could have been avoided had they told Burns & Mac, "Great idea! Now let's compare it to what other teams can propose and put forward and ultimately decide based on a fair, official, and open process". But no... Railroading it through is a far superior tactic  :bang:

Not to sound like a broken record but one reason this all is very fishy is that Burns & Mac has donated thousands to Mayor James and others within the City and have been awarded millions in tax breaks (TIFS) and public dollars in work over the years... Just another reason for campaign finance and ethics reforms.

 :th_twocents:

http://www.pitch.com/news/article/20565248/can-anyone-say-no-to-burns-mcdonnell

uh oh, cam...sly titola and troy "belvis" schulte just put your name on a list in city hall.  sad


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Offline kim carnes

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7035 on: May 12, 2017, 12:15:30 PM »
How is it a done deal?  Isnt there going to be a vote?

Offline camKSU

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7036 on: May 12, 2017, 12:27:36 PM »
How is it a done deal?  Isnt there going to be a vote?

They are presenting it as if the finance, design team selection and construction delivery are all a done deal... They will still have to clear the hurdle of a council vote and probably a public vote. Neither of which are easy given the backlash this is likely to cause. But those are really just a go-no go on whether the project moves forward.

What's really sad is that it didn't need to be this way and is only going to make its success even harder.

Don't get me wrong, I def want a new airport... Just not at any cost and not like this.  :shakesfist:

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Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7037 on: May 12, 2017, 12:28:20 PM »
:Lurk:

So from what I've heard and read this seems to be pretty shady of an arrangement. The whole thing was decided in a couple weeks of behind-closed-door meetings with only specific city leaders and it is apparently already a done deal?

This is going to cause a crap-storm of PR issues for the city that largely could have been avoided had they told Burns & Mac, "Great idea! Now let's compare it to what other teams can propose and put forward and ultimately decide based on a fair, official, and open process". But no... Railroading it through is a far superior tactic  :bang:

Not to sound like a broken record but one reason this all is very fishy is that Burns & Mac has donated thousands to Mayor James and others within the City and have been awarded millions in tax breaks (TIFS) and public dollars in work over the years... Just another reason for campaign finance and ethics reforms.

 :th_twocents:

http://www.pitch.com/news/article/20565248/can-anyone-say-no-to-burns-mcdonnell

Lid. Blown. Off!!  Can you believe it!?  One of Kansas City's largest employers sought tax credits to help finance a $100mil development in KCMO.  I'm shocked and appalled.  Burns & McDonnell HQ - more like the Death Star amiright?

And, you mean to tell me B&M donated $3,500 to Sly James' mayoral campaign 5 years ago!?  Holy crap.   


Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7038 on: May 12, 2017, 12:30:24 PM »
So not at all a done deal. I still have many questions on this thing and I think the traditional funding option may be a superior one....but numbskulls keep pushing this false narrative about visiting taxpayers money...hence options like this happen

Offline camKSU

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7039 on: May 12, 2017, 12:30:44 PM »
:Lurk:

So from what I've heard and read this seems to be pretty shady of an arrangement. The whole thing was decided in a couple weeks of behind-closed-door meetings with only specific city leaders and it is apparently already a done deal?

This is going to cause a crap-storm of PR issues for the city that largely could have been avoided had they told Burns & Mac, "Great idea! Now let's compare it to what other teams can propose and put forward and ultimately decide based on a fair, official, and open process". But no... Railroading it through is a far superior tactic  :bang:

Not to sound like a broken record but one reason this all is very fishy is that Burns & Mac has donated thousands to Mayor James and others within the City and have been awarded millions in tax breaks (TIFS) and public dollars in work over the years... Just another reason for campaign finance and ethics reforms.

 :th_twocents:

http://www.pitch.com/news/article/20565248/can-anyone-say-no-to-burns-mcdonnell

Lid. Blown. Off!!  Can you believe it!?  One of Kansas City's largest employers sought tax credits to help finance a $100mil development in KCMO.  I'm shocked and appalled.  Burns & McDonnell HQ - more like the Death Star amiright?

And, you mean to tell me B&M donated $3,500 to Sly James' mayoral campaign 5 years ago!?  Holy crap.   

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Offline star seed 7

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7040 on: May 12, 2017, 12:34:55 PM »
Good grief cam :facepalm:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline camKSU

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7041 on: May 12, 2017, 12:35:40 PM »
:Lurk:

So from what I've heard and read this seems to be pretty shady of an arrangement. The whole thing was decided in a couple weeks of behind-closed-door meetings with only specific city leaders and it is apparently already a done deal?

This is going to cause a crap-storm of PR issues for the city that largely could have been avoided had they told Burns & Mac, "Great idea! Now let's compare it to what other teams can propose and put forward and ultimately decide based on a fair, official, and open process". But no... Railroading it through is a far superior tactic  :bang:

Not to sound like a broken record but one reason this all is very fishy is that Burns & Mac has donated thousands to Mayor James and others within the City and have been awarded millions in tax breaks (TIFS) and public dollars in work over the years... Just another reason for campaign finance and ethics reforms.

 :th_twocents:

http://www.pitch.com/news/article/20565248/can-anyone-say-no-to-burns-mcdonnell

Lid. Blown. Off!!  Can you believe it!?  One of Kansas City's largest employers sought tax credits to help finance a $100mil development in KCMO.  I'm shocked and appalled.  Burns & McDonnell HQ - more like the Death Star amiright?

And, you mean to tell me B&M donated $3,500 to Sly James' mayoral campaign 5 years ago!?  Holy crap.   

From the article... "263 Burns & McDonnell employees made contributions to James' 2015 re-election effort. Most of the donors lived outside Kansas City."... "But for what Burns & McDonnell gives, it also receives. Since moving its headquarters to 9400 Ward Parkway in 1996, the firm has received $58.9 million in tax credits and incentive programs from the state of Missouri"
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Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7042 on: May 12, 2017, 12:37:36 PM »
How is it a done deal?  Isnt there going to be a vote?

They are presenting it as if the finance, design team selection and construction delivery are all a done deal... They will still have to clear the hurdle of a council vote and probably a public vote. Neither of which are easy given the backlash this is likely to cause. But those are really just a go-no go on whether the project moves forward.

What's really sad is that it didn't need to be this way and is only going to make its success even harder.

Don't get me wrong, I def want a new airport... Just not at any cost and not like this.  :shakesfist:

first, no, nobody has presented this as a done deal.  from the KC Star Article published yesterday,

"However, even if the city proceeds with this private financing option, James said, it still would have an election in November. The ballot would ask the voters to sign off on this new terminal construction plan. That vote would happen because the City Council promised a vote in response to a 2014 citizens petition requiring a public election on any major KCI improvements.  If voters say no, James acknowledged, 'we’re screwed.'"

On the bidding process - I'm sure the City would be all ears if another engineer/architecture firm wanted to pony up and buy the risk. 

On the cost - it won't be financed by or backed by the city and taxpayers won't be on the hook for overruns.  The project will be financed by the airlines and by fees assessed on passenger tickets at KCI over the next few decades.  Thus, as is the case in both privately and municipally financed airports, these fees will be assessed in the neighborhood of a few dollars per passenger ticket.  This is the cost.  This is what we're dealing with here. 


Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7043 on: May 12, 2017, 12:43:40 PM »

From the article... "263 Burns & McDonnell employees made contributions to James' 2015 re-election effort. Most of the donors lived outside Kansas City."... "But for what Burns & McDonnell gives, it also receives. Since moving its headquarters to 9400 Ward Parkway in 1996, the firm has received $58.9 million in tax credits and incentive programs from the state of Missouri"

Dude.  seriously.  you're implying B&M bought this prospective airport contract through a $3,500 campaign donation made 5 years ago

Offline camKSU

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7044 on: May 12, 2017, 12:45:25 PM »
How is it a done deal?  Isnt there going to be a vote?

They are presenting it as if the finance, design team selection and construction delivery are all a done deal... They will still have to clear the hurdle of a council vote and probably a public vote. Neither of which are easy given the backlash this is likely to cause. But those are really just a go-no go on whether the project moves forward.

What's really sad is that it didn't need to be this way and is only going to make its success even harder.

Don't get me wrong, I def want a new airport... Just not at any cost and not like this.  :shakesfist:

On the bidding process - I'm sure the City would be all ears if another engineer/architecture firm wanted to pony up and buy the risk. 


So then why not send out a public RFP, why not announce it separately from Burns & Mac, why not be up-front and transparent with their discussions? Sure seems pretty slimy.
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Offline camKSU

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7045 on: May 12, 2017, 12:47:08 PM »

From the article... "263 Burns & McDonnell employees made contributions to James' 2015 re-election effort. Most of the donors lived outside Kansas City."... "But for what Burns & McDonnell gives, it also receives. Since moving its headquarters to 9400 Ward Parkway in 1996, the firm has received $58.9 million in tax credits and incentive programs from the state of Missouri"

Dude.  seriously.  you're implying B&M bought this prospective airport contract through a $3,500 campaign donation made 5 years ago?

The article was from 3 years ago, I'm sure there have been plenty of additional donations since... and no, not solely. But it doesn't inspire trust or reflect transparency to have presented and announced this all in the way they have.  :dunno:
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 12:55:45 PM by camKSU »
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Offline pissclams

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7046 on: May 12, 2017, 12:54:17 PM »
of course the original funding option is better because it's cheaper and it allows for a competitive bidding process.  it's not better for lying sly james tho because it would get voted down.
sorry, lying sly!  sad   :cry:


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Offline Gooch

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7047 on: May 12, 2017, 12:56:25 PM »
You need to workshop the lying sly. It just doesn't flow off the tongue ya know.

Offline kim carnes

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7048 on: May 12, 2017, 12:59:44 PM »
Cam, BM isn't some sleazy, conniving company trying to bilk the kc community out of money.

Offline camKSU

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #7049 on: May 12, 2017, 01:03:21 PM »
Cam, BM isn't some sleazy, conniving company trying to bilk the kc community out of money.

Interesting, if true...

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2017/05/12/kci-burns-mcdonnell-single-terminal.html

"Burns & McDonnell’s proposal to finance and build a $1 billion modernization project at Kansas City International Airport through a public-private partnership lacks one of the hallmarks of increasingly popular public-private partnerships: competition."
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