Kansas City things

[pissclams]

Of that annual debt service, Green said the airport can afford to contribute about $22 million. So that leaves $64 million for the airlines to pay per year, which Burchett said the airlines accept. That’s up from the $34 million they contribute per year now.

Green and Burchett said the airlines would bear the risk with this financing, as they have with airport improvements in other cities, so they have an incentive to make sure these assumptions and numbers are credible.

only basically doubling the airlines' cost, but it's free money since the airlines are paying for it

I get where you are going but check out the peer comparison airports and the absence of a ticket cost skyrocket after a similar sized projects...slides 19-21.  Airport fees are 7% of the airlines cost (slide 16)
https://data.kcmo.org/Airport/Aviation-Update-To-Airport-Committee-presented-on-/wmzq-yt77

sorry but i'm beyond trusting any data coming out of sly james' office, i know you blindly trust him but i don't.

[Phil Titola]

KCI remains one of the lowest cost medium-sized airports in the country, and would still be in the middle of the pack even with this costly project, said John Green, chief financial officer for the Aviation Department.

this is a great quote.  now, read it slowly.
today:  one of the lowest cost medium sized airports in the country
tomorrow:  middle of the pack

but free money so whatevs

Loar spearheaded that idiotic renovation in 2004 that raised enplanement fees and only got us a new floor...but now we should totally listen to her.

[Phil Titola]

But they also assumed the airport’s passenger numbers will grow by 1.9 percent to make the financial numbers work, and Councilwoman Teresa Loar, a committee member, was highly skeptical of that growth projection of nearly 40 percent more passengers by 2035.

“Our growth has been flat for 15 years,” Loar pointed out. “I don’t know where you come up with these numbers.”

their entire analysis is based upon 2% passenger growth.  and despite the fact that there has been no passenger growth for the last decade and a half, you accept the numbers and support the trash they put in front of you.  it's just so great.   lap it all up.

-Form of agreement with airlines would be residual. Transferring the financial risk of program financing to the airlines.

you aren't very smart if you actually believe that the airlines are going to voluntarily reduce their margins.  why would they?  you can't answer that question.  why do they care what our airport looks like?  you can't answer that question either.  nothing about our airport affects their business model.  so why would they sign up to lose money?  they feel sorry for us?  some sort of altruism that i don't know about?

it would be really simple for the airlines to agree to limit ticket price increases to a factor directly tied to inflation, i wonder if they'll agree to that?  or should we just wink at each other and pinky swear?

new terminals don't increase your ticket costs based on the data....too many other factors....

actually the airlines have stated the airport design affects their operations....and I'm sure they get a cut of the concessions sold at the airport which is super low...so maybe they make up their cost there?  I dont' know the answer to that....nor do you.

[pissclams]

KCI remains one of the lowest cost medium-sized airports in the country, and would still be in the middle of the pack even with this costly project, said John Green, chief financial officer for the Aviation Department.

this is a great quote.  now, read it slowly.
today:  one of the lowest cost medium sized airports in the country
tomorrow:  middle of the pack

but free money so whatevs

Loar spearheaded that idiotic renovation in 2004 that raised enplanement fees and only got us a new floor...but now we should totally listen to her.

the thing is, no one is disputing her numbers

[Phil Titola]

Of that annual debt service, Green said the airport can afford to contribute about $22 million. So that leaves $64 million for the airlines to pay per year, which Burchett said the airlines accept. That’s up from the $34 million they contribute per year now.

Green and Burchett said the airlines would bear the risk with this financing, as they have with airport improvements in other cities, so they have an incentive to make sure these assumptions and numbers are credible.

only basically doubling the airlines' cost, but it's free money since the airlines are paying for it

I get where you are going but check out the peer comparison airports and the absence of a ticket cost skyrocket after a similar sized projects...slides 19-21.  Airport fees are 7% of the airlines cost (slide 16)
https://data.kcmo.org/Airport/Aviation-Update-To-Airport-Committee-presented-on-/wmzq-yt77

sorry but i'm beyond trusting any data coming out of sly james' office, i know you blindly trust him but i don't.

I'm happy to look at any other data you can find....since the mayor's office is now modifying data from their airport authority....AND the airlines consultant too.  How deep does this go?!?!?!?!

[pissclams]

But they also assumed the airport’s passenger numbers will grow by 1.9 percent to make the financial numbers work, and Councilwoman Teresa Loar, a committee member, was highly skeptical of that growth projection of nearly 40 percent more passengers by 2035.

“Our growth has been flat for 15 years,” Loar pointed out. “I don’t know where you come up with these numbers.”

their entire analysis is based upon 2% passenger growth.  and despite the fact that there has been no passenger growth for the last decade and a half, you accept the numbers and support the trash they put in front of you.  it's just so great.   lap it all up.

-Form of agreement with airlines would be residual. Transferring the financial risk of program financing to the airlines.

you aren't very smart if you actually believe that the airlines are going to voluntarily reduce their margins.  why would they?  you can't answer that question.  why do they care what our airport looks like?  you can't answer that question either.  nothing about our airport affects their business model.  so why would they sign up to lose money?  they feel sorry for us?  some sort of altruism that i don't know about?

it would be really simple for the airlines to agree to limit ticket price increases to a factor directly tied to inflation, i wonder if they'll agree to that?  or should we just wink at each other and pinky swear?

new terminals don't increase your ticket costs based on the data....too many other factors....

actually the airlines have stated the airport design affects their operations....and I'm sure they get a cut of the concessions sold at the airport which is super low...so maybe they make up their cost there?  I dont' know the answer to that....nor do you.

you're right i don't know the answer, but i do have common sense.  and common sense tells me that they're going to make up for the increased cost to do business at our airport somehow.  and i do know that money doesn't grow on trees.  and if the guy at the airline who signed up to lower my company's net income worked for me, he would be fired.  but we know that's not what's happening here.  they'll be made whole and then some. 

[Phil Titola]

KCI remains one of the lowest cost medium-sized airports in the country, and would still be in the middle of the pack even with this costly project, said John Green, chief financial officer for the Aviation Department.

this is a great quote.  now, read it slowly.
today:  one of the lowest cost medium sized airports in the country
tomorrow:  middle of the pack

but free money so whatevs

Loar spearheaded that idiotic renovation in 2004 that raised enplanement fees and only got us a new floor...but now we should totally listen to her.

the thing is, no one is disputing her numbers

I'm disputing her interjecting that she knows anything about airport financials.....and if she wouldn't have band-aid'd KCI in 2004, costs would be even lower for the past 11 years.....but wait, since 2004, our average ticket price has stayed below the domestic average..how could that be since the airline costs went up then????

[pissclams]

KCI remains one of the lowest cost medium-sized airports in the country, and would still be in the middle of the pack even with this costly project, said John Green, chief financial officer for the Aviation Department.

this is a great quote.  now, read it slowly.
today:  one of the lowest cost medium sized airports in the country
tomorrow:  middle of the pack

but free money so whatevs

Loar spearheaded that idiotic renovation in 2004 that raised enplanement fees and only got us a new floor...but now we should totally listen to her.

the thing is, no one is disputing her numbers

I'm disputing her interjecting that she knows anything about airport financials.....and if she wouldn't have band-aid'd KCI in 2004, costs would be even lower for the past 11 years.....but wait, since 2004, our average ticket price has stayed below the domestic average..how could that be since the airline costs went up then????

don't conflate the issues.  she's not speaking to the airport financials.  she simply stated the fact that airplane ridership has remained flat for the past 15 years, a fact that your side agrees with.

[Phil Titola]

But they also assumed the airport’s passenger numbers will grow by 1.9 percent to make the financial numbers work, and Councilwoman Teresa Loar, a committee member, was highly skeptical of that growth projection of nearly 40 percent more passengers by 2035.

“Our growth has been flat for 15 years,” Loar pointed out. “I don’t know where you come up with these numbers.”

their entire analysis is based upon 2% passenger growth.  and despite the fact that there has been no passenger growth for the last decade and a half, you accept the numbers and support the trash they put in front of you.  it's just so great.   lap it all up.

-Form of agreement with airlines would be residual. Transferring the financial risk of program financing to the airlines.

you aren't very smart if you actually believe that the airlines are going to voluntarily reduce their margins.  why would they?  you can't answer that question.  why do they care what our airport looks like?  you can't answer that question either.  nothing about our airport affects their business model.  so why would they sign up to lose money?  they feel sorry for us?  some sort of altruism that i don't know about?

it would be really simple for the airlines to agree to limit ticket price increases to a factor directly tied to inflation, i wonder if they'll agree to that?  or should we just wink at each other and pinky swear?

new terminals don't increase your ticket costs based on the data....too many other factors....

actually the airlines have stated the airport design affects their operations....and I'm sure they get a cut of the concessions sold at the airport which is super low...so maybe they make up their cost there?  I dont' know the answer to that....nor do you.

you're right i don't know the answer, but i do have common sense.  and common sense tells me that they're going to make up for the increased cost to do business at our airport somehow.  and i do know that money doesn't grow on trees.  and if the guy at the airline who signed up to lower my company's net income worked for me, he would be fired.  but we know that's not what's happening here.  they'll be made whole and then some.

Oh I agree with you, businesses don't sign up for increased cost in they don't get anything out of it...I'm telling you they have stated their operations have been affected by KCI design and I'm certain their airport leases include a cut of the concessions and parking....which could cover off on their incremental cost increase of $2 a person.

[pissclams]

so more free money is what you're saying?  we're giving them a cut of the concessions and parking which today the city gets?  so taking money from us?  how are we making up for that revenue loss?  $2 per passenger is a shitload of concession and parking when you consider the ratio of people who spend money on concessions/parking versus those who don't. 

[Phil Titola]

KCI remains one of the lowest cost medium-sized airports in the country, and would still be in the middle of the pack even with this costly project, said John Green, chief financial officer for the Aviation Department.

this is a great quote.  now, read it slowly.
today:  one of the lowest cost medium sized airports in the country
tomorrow:  middle of the pack

but free money so whatevs

Loar spearheaded that idiotic renovation in 2004 that raised enplanement fees and only got us a new floor...but now we should totally listen to her.

the thing is, no one is disputing her numbers

I'm disputing her interjecting that she knows anything about airport financials.....and if she wouldn't have band-aid'd KCI in 2004, costs would be even lower for the past 11 years.....but wait, since 2004, our average ticket price has stayed below the domestic average..how could that be since the airline costs went up then????

don't conflate the issues.  she's not speaking to the airport financials.  she simply stated the fact that airplane ridership has remained flat for the past 15 years, a fact that your side agrees with.

our ticket prices didn't rise after the last huge $ renovation....

[pissclams]

KCI remains one of the lowest cost medium-sized airports in the country, and would still be in the middle of the pack even with this costly project, said John Green, chief financial officer for the Aviation Department.

this is a great quote.  now, read it slowly.
today:  one of the lowest cost medium sized airports in the country
tomorrow:  middle of the pack

but free money so whatevs

Loar spearheaded that idiotic renovation in 2004 that raised enplanement fees and only got us a new floor...but now we should totally listen to her.

the thing is, no one is disputing her numbers

I'm disputing her interjecting that she knows anything about airport financials.....and if she wouldn't have band-aid'd KCI in 2004, costs would be even lower for the past 11 years.....but wait, since 2004, our average ticket price has stayed below the domestic average..how could that be since the airline costs went up then????

don't conflate the issues.  she's not speaking to the airport financials.  she simply stated the fact that airplane ridership has remained flat for the past 15 years, a fact that your side agrees with.

our ticket prices didn't rise after the last huge $ renovation....

she stated that airport ridership has remained flat for the past 15 years.  do you agree with that fact?  because the people you support do.

[Phil Titola]

so more free money is what you're saying?  we're giving them a cut of the concessions and parking which today the city gets?  so taking money from us?  how are we making up for that revenue loss?  $2 per passenger is a shitload of concession and parking when you consider the ratio of people who spend money on concessions/parking versus those who don't.

their current lease gives them the same I'm pretty sure.....they increase their revenues from more concessions being sold.

[Phil Titola]

KCI remains one of the lowest cost medium-sized airports in the country, and would still be in the middle of the pack even with this costly project, said John Green, chief financial officer for the Aviation Department.

this is a great quote.  now, read it slowly.
today:  one of the lowest cost medium sized airports in the country
tomorrow:  middle of the pack

but free money so whatevs

Loar spearheaded that idiotic renovation in 2004 that raised enplanement fees and only got us a new floor...but now we should totally listen to her.

the thing is, no one is disputing her numbers

I'm disputing her interjecting that she knows anything about airport financials.....and if she wouldn't have band-aid'd KCI in 2004, costs would be even lower for the past 11 years.....but wait, since 2004, our average ticket price has stayed below the domestic average..how could that be since the airline costs went up then????

don't conflate the issues.  she's not speaking to the airport financials.  she simply stated the fact that airplane ridership has remained flat for the past 15 years, a fact that your side agrees with.

our ticket prices didn't rise after the last huge $ renovation....

she stated that airport ridership has remained flat for the past 15 years.  do you agree with that fact?  because the people you support do.

The data shows that....but you don't trust that data because it came from "sly's office" I thought?

[pissclams]

so more free money is what you're saying?  we're giving them a cut of the concessions and parking which today the city gets?  so taking money from us?  how are we making up for that revenue loss?  $2 per passenger is a shitload of concession and parking when you consider the ratio of people who spend money on concessions/parking versus those who don't.

their current lease gives them the same I'm pretty sure.....they increase their revenues from more concessions being sold.

parking is going to remain flat because ridership is going to remain flat.
concession revenue will not increase by $30 million dollars a year.
there's a mystery delta

[pissclams]

KCI remains one of the lowest cost medium-sized airports in the country, and would still be in the middle of the pack even with this costly project, said John Green, chief financial officer for the Aviation Department.

this is a great quote.  now, read it slowly.
today:  one of the lowest cost medium sized airports in the country
tomorrow:  middle of the pack

but free money so whatevs

Loar spearheaded that idiotic renovation in 2004 that raised enplanement fees and only got us a new floor...but now we should totally listen to her.

the thing is, no one is disputing her numbers

I'm disputing her interjecting that she knows anything about airport financials.....and if she wouldn't have band-aid'd KCI in 2004, costs would be even lower for the past 11 years.....but wait, since 2004, our average ticket price has stayed below the domestic average..how could that be since the airline costs went up then????

don't conflate the issues.  she's not speaking to the airport financials.  she simply stated the fact that airplane ridership has remained flat for the past 15 years, a fact that your side agrees with.

our ticket prices didn't rise after the last huge $ renovation....

she stated that airport ridership has remained flat for the past 15 years.  do you agree with that fact?  because the people you support do.

The data shows that....but you don't trust that data because it came from "sly's office" I thought?

yes or no?

[pissclams]

do you agree that mci ridership has remained flat for the past 15 years with no year over year growth?

[Phil Titola]

KCI remains one of the lowest cost medium-sized airports in the country, and would still be in the middle of the pack even with this costly project, said John Green, chief financial officer for the Aviation Department.

this is a great quote.  now, read it slowly.
today:  one of the lowest cost medium sized airports in the country
tomorrow:  middle of the pack

but free money so whatevs

Loar spearheaded that idiotic renovation in 2004 that raised enplanement fees and only got us a new floor...but now we should totally listen to her.

the thing is, no one is disputing her numbers

I'm disputing her interjecting that she knows anything about airport financials.....and if she wouldn't have band-aid'd KCI in 2004, costs would be even lower for the past 11 years.....but wait, since 2004, our average ticket price has stayed below the domestic average..how could that be since the airline costs went up then????

don't conflate the issues.  she's not speaking to the airport financials.  she simply stated the fact that airplane ridership has remained flat for the past 15 years, a fact that your side agrees with.

our ticket prices didn't rise after the last huge $ renovation....

she stated that airport ridership has remained flat for the past 15 years.  do you agree with that fact?  because the people you support do.

The data shows that....but you don't trust that data because it came from "sly's office" I thought?

yes or no?

oh for Christ's sake 'clams..."yes the data shows growth has been flat for the past 15 years".  I didn't know we could cherry pick the data from that report and completely disregard the other data.

[pissclams]

ok good

[Phil Titola]

ok good

[pissclams]

financial models such as the one they're using to justify the expense associated with this build have levers that are pulled which trigger the results they want the model to output.  one of the triggers in their model that they have pulled is ridership growth.  we all agree that there has been no rider growth at mci for 15 years.  in order to get the desired output from their model, they've assumed growth.  without the growth, their model doesn't work.  ignoring the past 15 years, where will the growth come from? only the consultants know.

[pissclams]

or growth won't occur.  and the model is busted, and the airlines say "we assumed growth that never happened because X, Y, and Z and we have no option but to increase ticket prices, sorry guys".

[Phil Titola]

financial models such as the one they're using to justify the expense associated with this build have levers that are pulled which trigger the results they want the model to output.  one of the triggers in their model that they have pulled is ridership growth.  we all agree that there has been no rider growth at mci for 15 years.  in order to get the desired output from their model, they've assumed growth.  without the growth, their model doesn't work.  ignoring the past 15 years, where will the growth come from? only the consultants know.

It grew ~50% from 90-2000.

Also...
Form of agreement with airlines would be residual. Transferring the financial risk of program financing to the airlines

So they must be pretty confident in their consultant's model....which I know, you think all comes from increasing your ticket cost...but history shows that's not true.

[Phil Titola]

or growth won't occur.  and the model is busted, and the airlines say "we assumed growth that never happened because X, Y, and Z and we have no option but to increase ticket prices, sorry guys".

KCI didn't grow in passengers from 2004 (last renovations) to today...yet our ticket costs didn't rise at any different rate than domestic average...but you know.

[pissclams]

there is no risk to the airlines lol, what risk are you talking about?
why won't they sign an agreement that limits their ability to raise ticket prices to line up with a factor connected to inflation?