Kansas City things

[Phil Titola]

edit... 

[Missouriscribe]

Here's the bottom line for me. Yes in a perfect world we would not need to offer incentives for developers, and we are probably pretty close to that point. But the reason they are called incentives is because the city benefits in the long run.
 The helzberg arch firm debacle is one of the ugly results of the city being super generous, even reckless with their tif giveaways. So now everyone expects them. I agree with you there. But here we are, and hopefully in the near future we won't need them so much.

yep, developers definitely won't be asking for hundreds of millions in tax giveaways now that KC bent over and gave half of a project's cost to an out of town hotel in 2016.

[Phil Titola]

More like 12%. The city is giving 3.5M worth of land and 35M in tourism funds that are collected from tourism fees. TIF incentives aren't backed by the city... So if their projections don't make it, the city's general fund is not on the hook.

Also, from some prior comments, convention inquiries are way up after the Hyatt announcement and conventions that would never talk to us are asking for our bids.

So much misinformation... No wonder nothing gets done in kc.

[8manpick]

God could you guys imagine living on the plaza, must be rough

it can be.  currently working diligently with my council members to get the panhandlers off of it.  oh and also we're getting rid of the stop light at 48th and main and putting in a four-way stop.  it's nice having elected officials that partner with their constituency.

Are there nice downtownish areas in cities that don't have some panhandlers? I guess the plaza is the KC equivalent of Michigan Avenue or 5th avenue... Both of which are chock full of panhandlers

[pissclams]

God could you guys imagine living on the plaza, must be rough

it can be.  currently working diligently with my council members to get the panhandlers off of it.  oh and also we're getting rid of the stop light at 48th and main and putting in a four-way stop.  it's nice having elected officials that partner with their constituency.

Are there nice downtownish areas in cities that don't have some panhandlers? I guess the plaza is the KC equivalent of Michigan Avenue or 5th avenue... Both of which are chock full of panhandlers

i've never lived on michigan nor 5th avenues, i do live on the plaza.  i'm not concerned what happens in those cities. i can report that i don't remember it being an issue in chicago, although i can only speak to my experiences there. are you pro-begger?

and yes, there are plenty of places where panhandling is outlawed

[pissclams]

More like 12%. The city is giving 3.5M worth of land and 35M in tourism funds that are collected from tourism fees. TIF incentives aren't backed by the city... So if their projections don't make it, the city's general fund is not on the hook.

Also, from some prior comments, convention inquiries are way up after the Hyatt announcement and conventions that would never talk to us are asking for our bids.

So much misinformation... No wonder nothing gets done in kc.

speaking of misinformation
has there ever been a capital project that sly james has pushed through that you didn't support?  serious question.

[8manpick]

God could you guys imagine living on the plaza, must be rough

it can be.  currently working diligently with my council members to get the panhandlers off of it.  oh and also we're getting rid of the stop light at 48th and main and putting in a four-way stop.  it's nice having elected officials that partner with their constituency.

Are there nice downtownish areas in cities that don't have some panhandlers? I guess the plaza is the KC equivalent of Michigan Avenue or 5th avenue... Both of which are chock full of panhandlers

i've never lived on michigan nor 5th avenues, i do live on the plaza.  i'm not concerned what happens in those cities. i can report that i don't remember it being an issue in chicago, although i can only speak to my experiences there. are you pro-begger?

Not pro-beggar, but unless you do something to solve what drives them to beg, I don't see how moving the beggars to less affluent, tourist frequented, or population dense places does any good.  My point was more that if you have beggars, they will go to where the money is.

[Phil Titola]

More like 12%. The city is giving 3.5M worth of land and 35M in tourism funds that are collected from tourism fees. TIF incentives aren't backed by the city... So if their projections don't make it, the city's general fund is not on the hook.

Also, from some prior comments, convention inquiries are way up after the Hyatt announcement and conventions that would never talk to us are asking for our bids.

So much misinformation... No wonder nothing gets done in kc.

speaking of misinformation
has there ever been a capital project that sly james has pushed through that you didn't support?  serious question.

I can't say I know all his projects.
Sewers... Yes
Airport... Yes
Streetcar... Yes

Do you include the new tearing down buildings on the East side as a capital investment? I hate that plan.

What misinformation? Btw These conversations seem to go better with beers...internet bickering over city issues doesn't work.

[pissclams]

God could you guys imagine living on the plaza, must be rough

it can be.  currently working diligently with my council members to get the panhandlers off of it.  oh and also we're getting rid of the stop light at 48th and main and putting in a four-way stop.  it's nice having elected officials that partner with their constituency.

Are there nice downtownish areas in cities that don't have some panhandlers? I guess the plaza is the KC equivalent of Michigan Avenue or 5th avenue... Both of which are chock full of panhandlers

i've never lived on michigan nor 5th avenues, i do live on the plaza.  i'm not concerned what happens in those cities. i can report that i don't remember it being an issue in chicago, although i can only speak to my experiences there. are you pro-begger?

Not pro-beggar, but unless you do something to solve what drives them to beg, I don't see how moving the beggars to less affluent, tourist frequented, or population dense places does any good.  My point was more that if you have beggars, they will go to where the money is.

i have no desire to do something to solve what drives them to beg.  i'll work on me, they can work on themselves, seems like a pretty fair deal.  moving beggers to less affluent, tourist frequented or population dense places gets them out of my neighborhood, that's the good it does.  i'd bet legislation would get drafted pretty damn quickly if they decided to camp out on every corner of mission hills. or any development out in OP/leawood. those people wouldn't deal with it and i shouldn't have to.

[pissclams]

More like 12%. The city is giving 3.5M worth of land and 35M in tourism funds that are collected from tourism fees. TIF incentives aren't backed by the city... So if their projections don't make it, the city's general fund is not on the hook.

Also, from some prior comments, convention inquiries are way up after the Hyatt announcement and conventions that would never talk to us are asking for our bids.

So much misinformation... No wonder nothing gets done in kc.

speaking of misinformation
has there ever been a capital project that sly james has pushed through that you didn't support?  serious question.

I can't say I know all his projects.
Sewers... Yes
Airport... Yes
Streetcar... Yes

Do you include the new tearing down buildings on the East side as a capital investment? I hate that plan.

What misinformation? Btw These conversations seem to go better with beers...internet bickering over city issues doesn't work.

i'm not bickering, i enjoy the back and forth.  but as it relates to beers, i'll be boozin for the 72 hours, feel free to drop in! (just watch out for the bums littering the area, it gets really annoying).

[pissclams]

*sewers weren't sly's project, that was the EPA that forced KC to take action b/c we're currently dumping raw sewage into our rivers/streams

[Phil Titola]

I stand corrected on the sewers actually. That plan was worked out with the EPA in 2010... Sly started on 2011

He did pass the largest bond issuance in city history to deal with a billion in infrastructure backlogs that prior mayors ignored.

Id join you but I get to enjoy lovely western Kansas this weekend!

[8manpick]

i have no desire to do something to solve what drives them to beg.  i'll work on me, they can work on themselves, seems like a pretty fair deal.  moving beggers to less affluent, tourist frequented or population dense places gets them out of my neighborhood, that's the good it does.  i'd bet legislation would get drafted pretty damn quickly if they decided to camp out on every corner of mission hills. or any development out in OP/leawood. those people wouldn't deal with it and i shouldn't have to.

You're not wrong, just a bit of a NIMBYSC

[pissclams]

i have no desire to do something to solve what drives them to beg.  i'll work on me, they can work on themselves, seems like a pretty fair deal.  moving beggers to less affluent, tourist frequented or population dense places gets them out of my neighborhood, that's the good it does.  i'd bet legislation would get drafted pretty damn quickly if they decided to camp out on every corner of mission hills. or any development out in OP/leawood. those people wouldn't deal with it and i shouldn't have to.

You're not wrong, just a bit of a NIMBYSC

i see the same dudes sitting in the same places every single day.  several times a day.  then you got the guy playing the flute, the guy playing the trumpet, the dad and daughter (him drumming, her singing), the myriad of magicians, several guitarists, a saxophone or two.  my sidewalks become a carnival on warm weather weekends.  the neighborhood that i live in is  much more than a shopping center and it will be here long after forever 21 closes, and it depends on people like myself investing our time and money in it. 

[The Big Train]

How can you truly feel elite without a few homeless to flaunt it to?

[Phil Titola]

Clams gets it. It's annoying when people just consider the plaza the blocks owned (being sold) by Highwoods. its still the most functional urban residential neighborhood we have in kc.  I loved my years living on the west plaza side.... I'd never go back as I'm invested in downtown now but it's a great neighborhood to live and never step foot into cheesecake factory.

[The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep]

well at least the street car is free so no panhandlers will go there and offend you guys

[Missouriscribe]

More like 12%. The city is giving 3.5M worth of land and 35M in tourism funds that are collected from tourism fees. TIF incentives aren't backed by the city... So if their projections don't make it, the city's general fund is not on the hook.

Also, from some prior comments, convention inquiries are way up after the Hyatt announcement and conventions that would never talk to us are asking for our bids.

So much misinformation... No wonder nothing gets done in kc.

The project is $310 million.
According to the KC biz journal, KC's handover  "included a $35 million upfront contribution form the city and tax increment financing, which will divert about $139 million to the project over 30 years."

[mocat]

missouriscribe is the ptolemy of this thread

[Phil Titola]

That is the weirdest KC thing people can come up with regarding the streetcar. If they charged people would complain... Its free so people search out reasons to complain.

Just to address everyone's fears that the streetcar will be a rolling homeless camp, the cars are cleared at the union station terminus. Problems are dealt with with KCPD.

[pissclams]

i don't know if that's an overriding concern with anyone that i've discussed the streetcar with

[Phil Titola]

More like 12%. The city is giving 3.5M worth of land and 35M in tourism funds that are collected from tourism fees. TIF incentives aren't backed by the city... So if their projections don't make it, the city's general fund is not on the hook.

Also, from some prior comments, convention inquiries are way up after the Hyatt announcement and conventions that would never talk to us are asking for our bids.

So much misinformation... No wonder nothing gets done in kc.

The project is $310 million.
According to the KC biz journal, KC's handover  "included a $35 million upfront contribution form the city and tax increment financing, which will divert about $139 million to the project over 30 years."

This is just a difference in philosophy. I don't consider money we aren't getting now without the project to be an expense to the city. If the project is built, those new incremental tax proceeds are used to help get the project going. The only argument is opportunity cost... Given that land has set empty for 20+ years, thats a tough argument to swallow.

The huge difference in this deal vs a p&l project TIF is the city is not on the hook if the projections don't work. No general funds are at risk here. 

The 35M btw can't be used for anything but tourism projects... It can't be used to fix sewers or potholes.

[Phil Titola]

i don't know if that's an overriding concern with anyone that i've discussed the streetcar with

I've heard it at least a dozen times.... Usually the conversation is around how much is that going to cost me to ride... I say it's free... Response... Oh great homeless will ride it all day. 

[Missouriscribe]

that's a good way to look at it. Appreciate the breakdown.

[KCFDcat]

i have no desire to do something to solve what drives them to beg.  i'll work on me, they can work on themselves, seems like a pretty fair deal.  moving beggers to less affluent, tourist frequented or population dense places gets them out of my neighborhood, that's the good it does.  i'd bet legislation would get drafted pretty damn quickly if they decided to camp out on every corner of mission hills. or any development out in OP/leawood. those people wouldn't deal with it and i shouldn't have to.

You're not wrong, just a bit of a NIMBYSC

i see the same dudes sitting in the same places every single day.  several times a day.  then you got the guy playing the flute, the guy playing the trumpet, the dad and daughter (him drumming, her singing), the myriad of magicians, several guitarists, a saxophone or two.  my sidewalks become a carnival on warm weather weekends.  the neighborhood that i live in is  much more than a shopping center and it will be here long after forever 21 closes, and it depends on people like myself investing our time and money in it.

Today I learned that 'clams is the biggest bad person on this blog.

Really? Complaining about performers on the plaza? Isn't that the point of urban centers?