Kansas City things

[AbeFroman]

I am pro-hotel and pro-streetcar

I was anti-airport, but I guess it doesn't really matter cause I don't travel a ton like you busyness people do. So whatevs, have your shiny 1 terminal.

[Emo EMAW]

I don't see what's wrong with challenging the status quo is all, especially when it's "our" money that we are talking about.

They need to get rid of that stupid 1% tax in KCMO, BTW.

[mocat]

i travel kind of a lot and i do not want a new airport. it is crazy easy to travel in/out of. but that means we will never have an important hub airport, and i'm ok with that.

[KCFDcat]

KCFD, are you possibly looking for a part time bartender who calls the job his "side hustle?"

Possibly.

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[Belvis Noland]

I don't see what's wrong with challenging the status quo is all, especially when it's "our" money that we are talking about.

They need to get rid of that stupid 1% tax in KCMO, BTW.

agree on the e-tax.  and I get challenging the status quo, but we've been talking about a convention hotel since the 90s.  it's time to get this plan done.

[KCFDcat]

I am pro-hotel and pro-streetcar

I was anti-airport, but I guess it doesn't really matter cause I don't travel a ton like you busyness people do. So whatevs, have your shiny 1 terminal.

I am pro hotel, pro streetcar, pro streetcar expansion, pro commuter rail, I think ridekc is a huge step forward to having regional transit.

Don't care either way about the airport. I think the money would be better spent elsewhere, such as a more comprehensive transit plan. But, I can also see why people say a new airport needs to be built.

[Skipper44]

Herein lies the premise of the study I read that I don't care to find:  these projects go to the municipalities that are willing to fork over the most money.   That puts the municipalities in competition with each other, and often the most desperate and dumbest ones give away too much to secure the investment, and the promised revenue stream is never realized. 

Did the Power & Light district pan out economically?  (I don't know for sure, just asking, have heard conflicting rumors/opinions.)

Has it panned out financially?  no - not necessarily.  But, I think it's tough to judge the success/failure of such a monumental development with less than 10 years of data.  Especially given the fact that this thing was build amidst the great recession using pre-recession projections.  looking back in 20, 30 years will give a better idea of whether this was a smart move by the City.

It's also tough to determine how P&L has panned out economically, because you have to consider all of the collateral benefits it's had on the City that aren't necessarily attributed to P&L.  Sprint Center, H&R Block, Cosentinos Grocery, Midland Theatre, Alamo Drafthouse, etc.  None of these developments would have occurred without the first domino - P&L.  This is probably another discussion, but downtown is 180degrees from where it was pre-P&L.  why the change?  ask downtown workers, residents, business owners. 

 

The success of what has happened downtown post Sprint Center is exactly why this specific project kind of stinks.  Downtown KC is trending up, why should the public finance 50% of the cost of the project?

[mocat]

good grief do you even hear yourself

[pissclams]

Did the Power & Light district pan out economically?  (I don't know for sure, just asking, have heard conflicting rumors/opinions.)

i don't think it's paid for itself yet, if that's what you're asking. but i think it is a pretty solid success (along with the sprint center)

you're not serious are you?

[pissclams]

mci will not be a hub, new airport or old airport, not a hub

[mocat]

mci will not be a hub, new airport or old airport, not a hub

agreed!

[mocat]

Did the Power & Light district pan out economically?  (I don't know for sure, just asking, have heard conflicting rumors/opinions.)

i don't think it's paid for itself yet, if that's what you're asking. but i think it is a pretty solid success (along with the sprint center)

you're not serious are you?

absolutely!

[pissclams]

I HOPE YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS!

[mocat]

I HOPE YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS!

that article and i are in complete agreement that pnl is a great success that has not paid for itself yet

[Skipper44]

I HOPE YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS!

that article and i are in complete agreement that pnl is a great success that has not paid for itself yet

I don't think it will ever pay for itself, maybe if the Royals move downtown

[KCFDcat]

Herein lies the premise of the study I read that I don't care to find:  these projects go to the municipalities that are willing to fork over the most money.   That puts the municipalities in competition with each other, and often the most desperate and dumbest ones give away too much to secure the investment, and the promised revenue stream is never realized. 

Did the Power & Light district pan out economically?  (I don't know for sure, just asking, have heard conflicting rumors/opinions.)

Has it panned out financially?  no - not necessarily.  But, I think it's tough to judge the success/failure of such a monumental development with less than 10 years of data.  Especially given the fact that this thing was build amidst the great recession using pre-recession projections.  looking back in 20, 30 years will give a better idea of whether this was a smart move by the City.

It's also tough to determine how P&L has panned out economically, because you have to consider all of the collateral benefits it's had on the City that aren't necessarily attributed to P&L.  Sprint Center, H&R Block, Cosentinos Grocery, Midland Theatre, Alamo Drafthouse, etc.  None of these developments would have occurred without the first domino - P&L.  This is probably another discussion, but downtown is 180degrees from where it was pre-P&L.  why the change?  ask downtown workers, residents, business owners. 

 

The success of what has happened downtown post Sprint Center is exactly why this specific project kind of stinks.  Downtown KC is trending up, why should the public finance 50% of the cost of the project?

It's a 311 million dollar project. The city is helping with $50 million over 25 years. What math makes that add up to 50%?

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[_33]

Need an NBA team at Sprint.  Come home Kings.

[Skipper44]

Hey guys not taking a side on this particular issue but there are studies that show that tax incentives like this at the local level don't always pan out, despite the best intentions, and the best data available at the time.  I'll hang up and listen off air. 

$50 million over 25 years. as far as i know they are not raising taxes on kc residents to accomplish this. one RNC or DNC could be $150-200 million in reven- damn, he hung up and he's off the air now.

kansascity.com

The plan doesn’t rely on general taxpayer dollars and doesn’t require the city to guarantee the debt.

Hotel projected to create about 400 hospitality jobs with an annual $20 million payroll.

expected to cost about $311 million, including the $4.5 million value of the land that the city would contribute for the project.

city would also contribute $35 million in cash, which would be bonded over 25 years and would actually cost about $2 million per year in convention and tourism taxes.

The project requires tax abatement and substantial tax incentives to be viable.  The total public contribution adds up to more than $160 million, or more than 50 percent of the cost.

The developers’ application says financing would also include $52 million in private equity, including $8.5 million from Hyatt, and $95 million in private debt.

The $311 million project costs add up this way:

- $218 million for construction.

- $32 million for design and professional services and soft costs.

- $13 million for land acquisition, including the city’s $4.5 million contribution.

- $38 million for financing and project management.

- Nearly $10 million in developer fees.

[Belvis Noland]

did any of you live/work downtown pre-P&L? 

[CNS]

did any of you live/work downtown pre-P&L?

Yeah, this.  I worked downtown prior to that.  They always used to bitch about getting ppl to move downtown.  Now the occupancy rate is something like 86% in all the new lofts/appts. 

[Belvis Noland]

did any of you live/work downtown pre-P&L?

Yeah, this.  I worded downtown prior to that.  They always used to bitch about getting ppl to move downtown.  Now the occupancy rate is something like 86% in all the new lofts/appts.

X-roads was growing organically, but it was essentially surface lot blight from the loop to Crown Center. 

[Missouriscribe]

Yes. Lofts were being built, but lack of a grocery store and the largely empty after six pm effect made it not so nice. P and L is a success. The investment the city made with it should be recouped with mostly private investment, in my opinion.

[star seed 7]

It's touching how you have come to the defense of your passionate, but feeble minded friend. Next time he wants to have you argue on his behalf just have him send out a signal or something.

I also find your faith in local government inspiring. Of course receiving government paychecks likely colors your objectivity.

Seriously man?  Im all about disagreement and seeing the other side. But you at least have to come up with legit arguments... Which you have yet to do. You just call us stupid and make fun of the fact that I'm a civil worker.

Not sure how that got edited out, but you're right - there are two sides to this. I wish all arguments on this blog were civil and didn't include name calling. Lib called me names, and I called him names.
Fair enough. After reading that I'm struck by the disconnect of your sentiments and comments by lib. I made a point, was attacked personally with zero argument then I rubbed his nose in it. Probably shouldn't have. There are two sides to the argument, and I hope KC and your business thrive.

There's a ton of precedent for cities the size of kc pitching $ towards large projects that are good for the long term health of the city. Even so, this is an incredibly small amount of money over a  long period of time.

I really don't care what you think, or if you think you're smarter than I am. If you need to tell yourself that, I'm good with it. I'm done engaging in an argument with someone who treats others like crap.

Apparently I'm being blocked from responding. You're right, there are two sides to the debate. Best of luck to KC and your business.

Lol

[Phil Titola]

did any of you live/work downtown pre-P&L?

Yes...lived and worked..letting the dummies punch themselves out on this one.

[wabash909]

I do miss the haunted houses and wig shops and 8 blocks of weed infested surface parking though.