Author Topic: Kansas City things  (Read 1007330 times)

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Offline slobber

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3050 on: October 20, 2015, 01:00:44 PM »
Seneca, KS. Population no Wal-Mart, no Dairy Queen, no Pizza Hutt, and no Sonic because of people like scribe. They will put all of the local businesses out of business! What good will they do for the economy of Seneca?!!?!

Well, local people drive to Hiawatha, Marysville, Holton, and even Sabetha (I am sorry but those 4 towns are really crappy!) to support those big corporations. No tax revenue for Seneca, no jobs for Seneca. Business have closed. This was the 1980's and people in Seneca were stupid. They are now smarter. Have tried to recover some of that lost business.

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3051 on: October 20, 2015, 01:01:33 PM »
Things are going well. About 50% above projections at this point. We'll see how it holds up over the winter, I'm guessing we'll slow down significantly. The hardest part right now is keeping fully staffed. Part time workers, man.

I did not know them personally, but a friend of mine knew one, used to work with him.

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Hey KCFDcat my friend from NYC is this elite sommelier and #foodie and when he came to town to took him to KCFDcatwork and he really liked it, as did the rest of us.  We may have left a vehicle in the lot overnight.  Sorry about that. 

Offline mocat

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3052 on: October 20, 2015, 01:01:57 PM »
It's touching how you have come to the defense of your passionate, but feeble minded friend. Next time he wants to have you argue on his behalf just have him send out a signal or something.

I also find your faith in local government inspiring. Of course receiving government paychecks likely colors your objectivity.

why haven't you answered my question yet?

Offline KCFDcat

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3053 on: October 20, 2015, 01:03:13 PM »
Things are going well. About 50% above projections at this point. We'll see how it holds up over the winter, I'm guessing we'll slow down significantly. The hardest part right now is keeping fully staffed. Part time workers, man.

I did not know them personally, but a friend of mine knew one, used to work with him.

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Hey KCFDcat my friend from NYC is this elite sommelier and #foodie and when he came to town to took him to KCFDcatwork and he really liked it, as did the rest of us.  We may have left a vehicle in the lot overnight.  Sorry about that.
Cool!  No worries. I'm not a parking nazi like some of my neighbors.

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Offline Missouriscribe

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3054 on: October 20, 2015, 01:04:12 PM »
It's touching how you have come to the defense of your passionate, but feeble minded friend. Next time he wants to have you argue on his behalf just have him send out a signal or something.

I also find your faith in local government inspiring. Of course receiving government paychecks likely colors your objectivity.

why haven't you answered my question yet?
I'll get right on that just as soon as you answer mine, MC. How are the funds being repaid?

Offline mocat

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3055 on: October 20, 2015, 01:05:41 PM »
It's touching how you have come to the defense of your passionate, but feeble minded friend. Next time he wants to have you argue on his behalf just have him send out a signal or something.

I also find your faith in local government inspiring. Of course receiving government paychecks likely colors your objectivity.

why haven't you answered my question yet?
I'll get right on that just as soon as you answer mine, MC. How are the funds being repaid?

i asked you first  :Keke:

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3056 on: October 20, 2015, 01:06:23 PM »
Hey guys not taking a side on this particular issue but there are studies that show that tax incentives like this at the local level don't always pan out, despite the best intentions, and the best data available at the time.  I'll hang up and listen off air. 

Offline mocat

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3057 on: October 20, 2015, 01:08:08 PM »
Hey guys not taking a side on this particular issue but there are studies that show that tax incentives like this at the local level don't always pan out, despite the best intentions, and the best data available at the time.  I'll hang up and listen off air. 

$50 million over 25 years. as far as i know they are not raising taxes on kc residents to accomplish this. one RNC or DNC could be $150-200 million in reven- damn, he hung up and he's off the air now.

Offline KCFDcat

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3058 on: October 20, 2015, 01:09:17 PM »
It's touching how you have come to the defense of your passionate, but feeble minded friend. Next time he wants to have you argue on his behalf just have him send out a signal or something.

I also find your faith in local government inspiring. Of course receiving government paychecks likely colors your objectivity.
Seriously man?  Im all about disagreement and seeing the other side. But you at least have to come up with legit arguments... Which you have yet to do. You just call us stupid and make fun of the fact that I'm a civil worker.

There's a ton of precedent for cities the size of kc pitching $ towards large projects that are good for the long term health of the city. Even so, this is an incredibly small amount of money over a  long period of time.

I really don't care what you think, or if you think you're smarter than I am. If you need to tell yourself that, I'm good with it. I'm done engaging in an argument with someone who treats others like crap.

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3059 on: October 20, 2015, 01:10:36 PM »
Hey mocat, I forgot, just wanted to call back and say my mom listens all the time and she really enjoys the segments when you guys try to get stray cats and dogs adopted.  Go cats!  And dogs, too, lol!

Offline KCFDcat

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3060 on: October 20, 2015, 01:12:15 PM »
Hey guys not taking a side on this particular issue but there are studies that show that tax incentives like this at the local level don't always pan out, despite the best intentions, and the best data available at the time.  I'll hang up and listen off air.
Yeah man, that's true. Like almost any investment it's not a sure thing. But, even if it doesn't work out 100% in the city's favor $$-wise, it will still help fill a major void in KC- modern hotel space.

Offline mocat

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3061 on: October 20, 2015, 01:13:57 PM »
Hey mocat, I forgot, just wanted to call back and say my mom listens all the time and she really enjoys the segments when you guys try to get stray cats and dogs adopted.  Go cats!  And dogs, too, lol!

 :excited:

Offline Missouriscribe

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3062 on: October 20, 2015, 01:14:48 PM »
It's touching how you have come to the defense of your passionate, but feeble minded friend. Next time he wants to have you argue on his behalf just have him send out a signal or something.

I also find your faith in local government inspiring. Of course receiving government paychecks likely colors your objectivity.
Seriously man?  Im all about disagreement and seeing the other side. But you at least have to come up with legit arguments... Which you have yet to do. You just call us stupid and make fun of the fact that I'm a civil worker.

Not sure how that got edited out, but you're right - there are two sides to this. I wish all arguments on this blog were civil and didn't include name calling. Lib called me names, and I called him names.
Fair enough. After reading that I'm struck by the disconnect of your sentiments and comments by lib. I made a point, was attacked personally with zero argument then I rubbed his nose in it. Probably shouldn't have. There are two sides to the argument, and I hope KC and your business thrive.

There's a ton of precedent for cities the size of kc pitching $ towards large projects that are good for the long term health of the city. Even so, this is an incredibly small amount of money over a  long period of time.

I really don't care what you think, or if you think you're smarter than I am. If you need to tell yourself that, I'm good with it. I'm done engaging in an argument with someone who treats others like crap.

Apparently I'm being blocked from responding. You're right, there are two sides to the debate. Best of luck to KC and your business.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 01:26:05 PM by Missouriscribe »

Offline slobber

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3063 on: October 20, 2015, 01:17:48 PM »
It's touching how you have come to the defense of your passionate, but feeble minded friend. Next time he wants to have you argue on his behalf just have him send out a signal or something.

I also find your faith in local government inspiring. Of course receiving government paychecks likely colors your objectivity.
Seriously man?  Im all about disagreement and seeing the other side. But you at least have to come up with legit arguments... Which you have yet to do. You just call us stupid and make fun of the fact that I'm a civil worker.

Fair enough. After reading that I'm struck by the disconnect of your sentiments and comments by lib. I made a point, was attacked personally with zero argument then I rubbed his nose in it. Probably shouldn't have. There are two sides to the argument, and I hope KC and your business thrive.

There's a ton of precedent for cities the size of kc pitching $ towards large projects that are good for the long term health of the city. Even so, this is an incredibly small amount of money over a  long period of time.

I really don't care what you think, or if you think you're smarter than I am. If you need to tell yourself that, I'm good with it. I'm done engaging in an argument with someone who treats others like crap.

Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3064 on: October 20, 2015, 01:18:10 PM »
Hey guys not taking a side on this particular issue but there are studies that show that tax incentives like this at the local level don't always pan out, despite the best intentions, and the best data available at the time.  I'll hang up and listen off air. 

$50 million over 25 years. as far as i know they are not raising taxes on kc residents to accomplish this. one RNC or DNC could be $150-200 million in reven- damn, he hung up and he's off the air now.

kansascity.com

The plan doesn’t rely on general taxpayer dollars and doesn’t require the city to guarantee the debt.

Hotel projected to create about 400 hospitality jobs with an annual $20 million payroll.

expected to cost about $311 million, including the $4.5 million value of the land that the city would contribute for the project.

city would also contribute $35 million in cash, which would be bonded over 25 years and would actually cost about $2 million per year in convention and tourism taxes.

The project requires tax abatement and substantial tax incentives to be viable.  The total public contribution adds up to more than $160 million, or more than 50 percent of the cost.

The developers’ application says financing would also include $52 million in private equity, including $8.5 million from Hyatt, and $95 million in private debt.

The $311 million project costs add up this way:

- $218 million for construction.

- $32 million for design and professional services and soft costs.

- $13 million for land acquisition, including the city’s $4.5 million contribution.

- $38 million for financing and project management.

- Nearly $10 million in developer fees.


Offline mocat

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3065 on: October 20, 2015, 01:20:52 PM »


WAIT, PART OF THIS WILL BE PAID FOR WITH TOURISM TAX DOLLARS???!!!! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse:

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3066 on: October 20, 2015, 01:24:08 PM »
Stupid question...if the economics of the project are sound, why is public funding needed? 

Offline mocat

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3067 on: October 20, 2015, 01:25:49 PM »
Stupid question...if the economics of the project are sound, why is public funding needed?

does anything get built without it?

Offline pissclams

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3068 on: October 20, 2015, 01:30:40 PM »
Stupid question...if the economics of the project are sound, why is public funding needed?

does anything get built without it?
not in kansas city


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3069 on: October 20, 2015, 01:34:45 PM »
Stupid question...if the economics of the project are sound, why is public funding needed?

it's a good question.  To incentivize behavior/development?  Pro sports franchises are wildly profitable, so why do ALL new stadiums involve municipal subsidies?  (why did we subsidize Sprint Center, Kauffman, Arrowhead, Sporting Park?)  Why do governments offer subsidies and tax breaks for profitable corporations to relocate?  Why do municipalities offer tax abatements to residents who make enough money to afford property taxes?  and on and on and on.     

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3070 on: October 20, 2015, 01:35:06 PM »
Stupid question...if the economics of the project are sound, why is public funding needed?

does anything get built without it?

Herein lies the premise of the study I read that I don't care to find:  these projects go to the municipalities that are willing to fork over the most money.   That puts the municipalities in competition with each other, and often the most desperate and dumbest ones give away too much to secure the investment, and the promised revenue stream is never realized. 

Did the Power & Light district pan out economically?  (I don't know for sure, just asking, have heard conflicting rumors/opinions.)


Offline mocat

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3071 on: October 20, 2015, 01:38:03 PM »
Did the Power & Light district pan out economically?  (I don't know for sure, just asking, have heard conflicting rumors/opinions.)

i don't think it's paid for itself yet, if that's what you're asking. but i think it is a pretty solid success (along with the sprint center)

Offline mocat

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3072 on: October 20, 2015, 01:39:16 PM »
i mean this is just how things work. i don't get the resistance to the hotel (including the way it's being financed), i really don't.

the streetcar and the airport are completely unrelated issues.

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3073 on: October 20, 2015, 01:46:14 PM »
KCFD, are you possibly looking for a part time bartender who calls the job his "side hustle?"
I think what my friend Mitch is trying to say is that true love is blind.

Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3074 on: October 20, 2015, 01:46:23 PM »

Herein lies the premise of the study I read that I don't care to find:  these projects go to the municipalities that are willing to fork over the most money.   That puts the municipalities in competition with each other, and often the most desperate and dumbest ones give away too much to secure the investment, and the promised revenue stream is never realized. 

Did the Power & Light district pan out economically?  (I don't know for sure, just asking, have heard conflicting rumors/opinions.)

Has it panned out financially?  no - not necessarily.  But, I think it's tough to judge the success/failure of such a monumental development with less than 10 years of data.  Especially given the fact that this thing was build amidst the great recession using pre-recession projections.  looking back in 20, 30 years will give a better idea of whether this was a smart move by the City.

It's also tough to determine how P&L has panned out economically, because you have to consider all of the collateral benefits it's had on the City that aren't necessarily attributed to P&L.  Sprint Center, H&R Block, Cosentinos Grocery, Midland Theatre, Alamo Drafthouse, etc.  None of these developments would have occurred without the first domino - P&L.  This is probably another discussion, but downtown is 180degrees from where it was pre-P&L.  why the change?  ask downtown workers, residents, business owners.