Will old man snyder ever win another bowl game?

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

You guys love to talk recent history, so let's do it.  In the last 10 years, K-State has had three seasons worthy of tough guy talk ('03, '11, and '12).  The other seasons in that stretch were mediocre at best.  As for KU, we've had one season in the last 10 years worthy of tough guy talk ('07).  The other seasons in that stretch were disgraceful to mediocre.  K-State is 6-4 vs. KU in the past 10 years.  The main difference between the two programs is that K-State's lows haven't been as low as KU's.  Turner Gill was a much worse coach than Ron Prince, without a doubt. 

All that being said, KU has consistently out-recruited K-State in the past few years, despite having worse teams.  What this tells me is that KU is a more attractive program for athletes in terms of facilities and playing time.  Snyder and K-State do a better job of developing talent and recruiting guys who can excel in one area and play a vital role in the team's overall success.  Harper and Brown were big-time talents, but those guys transferred in after going elsewhere.  K-State isn't stockpiling that type of talent on its roster.

In my opinion, the reason why K-State fans are constantly obsessing over KU is because you guys know that in the blink of an eye, things can swing the other direction.  Look no further than the '03 to '04 seasons, where K-State went from Big 12 champs to 4-7 (with a loss in Lawrence).  I see some similarities from that season to this upcoming year.  K-State will have to replace a bunch of playmakers on defense and the heart of its offense.  Weis and KU were very close to beating Texas and Texas Tech last year, and also came within a TD of beating a pretty good Oklahoma State team (insert joke about moral victories here).  Deep down inside, K-State fans know that KU has capable athletes (Sims, Pierson, Heaps, McCay, Combs), and an offense that could be really good if given the right coaching.  K-State fans have now convinced themselves that the program is now just some well-oiled machine that will dominate everyone for the next decade, but I think you might be in for a rude awakening if that's your expectation.

[GoodForAnother]

The KU has more talent thing is so dumb. If KU had more talent than KSU then they would win a lot of games and go to big time bowls like us.

[420seriouscat69]

The KU has more talent thing is so dumb. If KU had more talent than KSU then they would win a lot of games and go to big time bowls like us.

Yup, but they've been banging that drum for years. However, they almost beat Texas and TT so this monster is close to being out of control.

[OregonSmock]

The KU has more talent thing is so dumb. If KU had more talent than KSU then they would win a lot of games and go to big time bowls like us.

Yup, but they've been banging that drum for years. However, they almost beat Texas and TT so this monster is close to being out of control.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2013/all/all

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2011/all/all

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2010/all/all

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2009/all/all


If you were capable of rational thought, you might be able to accept the fact that K-State and Snyder are just better at developing talent than KU.  KU has had better recruiting classes on paper, though.  The cupboard isn't as bare as you guys like to make it seem.

[WillieWatanabe]

Beems, i think you are discounting just how shitty the WRSOAT is. I think that is outside the realm of K-state.

[bucket]

The KU has more talent thing is so dumb. If KU had more talent than KSU then they would win a lot of games and go to big time bowls like us.

Yup, but they've been banging that drum for years. However, they almost beat Texas and TT so this monster is close to being out of control.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2013/all/all

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2011/all/all

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2010/all/all

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2009/all/all


If you were capable of rational thought, you might be able to accept the fact that K-State and Snyder are just better at developing talent than KU.  KU has had better recruiting classes on paper, though.  The cupboard isn't as bare as you guys like to make it seem.

You're blind and ignorant if you take what the pundits say as gospel. The results speak for themselves.

[_33]

Imagine how bad a coach would have to be to go 1-11 with a team that had more talent than the conference champion.  Yikes.

[sonofdaxjones]

Plus, no one has said the cupboard is bare at ku, no one.

[420seriouscat69]

I know "what's on paper" beems. You spent a whole off season banging the Crist drum and his 5 stars. As much as it sucks we aren't landing "rivals monsters"! It's refreshing to know that Snyder should be the CEO of rivals. Ala Jordy Nelson, Ty Zimmerman, etc.

[sonofdaxjones]

Imagine how bad a coach would have to be to go 1-11 with a team that had more talent than the conference champion.  Yikes.

The guy is 17-32 in his last 4 seasons as a D1 head football coach and guys like Beems get all shitty because people have the audacity to question Chaz's COLLEGE head coaching ability.   

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

WTF is this farm Humpty thing bmwjhawk keeps talking about? Am I missing something?


Also, BMwJhAWk, you're missing the point regarding talent.  Nobody is saying your players didn't score out well on rivals, or scout, or wherever you cherry pick rankings from.  Its that clearly the players Snyder gets are by and large more talented, which is why they are unequivocally better at football.  KState players are demonstrably faster, quicker, stronger, larger and more agile than Ku players.  Do you even watch the games?  They are laughers.  Part of it is scheme, but a lot of it is talent.  When you see 3 heart Collin Klein pulling away from 4 star Ku safety (macdougald?) down the sideline is you're thought process honestly, "well at least macdougald is more talented"? 

Also, what's your end game here? Are you really trying to convince people that Ku and kstate are nearly equal in talent? Because that's laughable to a disinterested third party, let alone on a kstate message board.

This is the last remotely serious thing I will post on goE for the next 25 days.

[420seriouscat69]

But FSD, you're discounting all of Weis's rings, dumbass.

[meow meow]

Butthurt kstate fans gon butthurt I guess

[bucket]

The proof is in the pudding 

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

But FSD, you're discounting all of Weis's rings, dumbass.

I'm sure Mrs. Snyder has some very nice jewelry of her own.

[Dugout DickStone]

Weiss must be one pathetic coach.

[GoodForAnother]

The KU has more talent thing is so dumb. If KU had more talent than KSU then they would win a lot of games and go to big time bowls like us.

Yup, but they've been banging that drum for years. However, they almost beat Texas and TT so this monster is close to being out of control.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2013/all/all

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2011/all/all

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2010/all/all

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2009/all/all


If you were capable of rational thought, you might be able to accept the fact that K-State and Snyder are just better at developing talent than KU.  KU has had better recruiting classes on paper, though.  The cupboard isn't as bare as you guys like to make it seem.

It has nothing to do with developing talent. Snyder is better at finding hidden talent than anyone else on the planet. He's definitely better at it than Gill, Weis, or Rivals.com. Our players are just better, beems.

[Shacks]

Weis couldn't win with legitimately elite talent/recruiting classes at Notre Dame, don't know why anyone expects him to with KU's classes.  Not predicting another 1-11 season for KU, but come on - he couldn't succeed when he was getting nothing but **** and ***** guys, so the "We have better classes" talking point doesn't really translate to wins.

[HerrSonntag]

The KU has more talent thing is so dumb. If KU had more talent than KSU then they would win a lot of games and go to big time bowls like us.

Yup, but they've been banging that drum for years. However, they almost beat Texas and TT so this monster is close to being out of control.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2013/all/all

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2011/all/all

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2010/all/all

http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansas/football/recruiting/teamrank/2009/all/all


If you were capable of rational thought, you might be able to accept the fact that K-State and Snyder are just better at developing talent than KU.  KU has had better recruiting classes on paper, though.  The cupboard isn't as bare as you guys like to make it seem.

It is a well documented fact that recruiting in that range is more about hearsay than actual talent levels.  You think some pud yahoo employee can really accurately rank the 50th to 60th ranked DEs in the nation?  It comes down to who has the most offers and they work backwards from there... then most of those offers beget other offers, even further inflating their evaluation.

If you were capable of objective thought, you'd consider the possibility that the bane of KU's football program isn't some long line of lemon-flavored-coaches.  That, given all the money KU is willing to throw at coaching/staff, that perhaps snob-u isn't as attractive to football recruits as you think.

[yoman]

To sum up beems in this thread:


"Our team is more talented and our program is better. K-State has accomplished nothing in football. It does not matter that KU is experiencing one of the worst stretches in conference history. Move along."

Not buying it beems. 

[Havs]

In my opinion, the reason why K-State fans are constantly obsessing over KU is because you guys know that in the blink of an eye, things can swing the other direction.  Look no further than the '03 to '04 seasons, where K-State went from Big 12 champs to 4-7 (with a loss in Lawrence).  I see some similarities from that season to this upcoming year.  K-State will have to replace a bunch of playmakers on defense and the heart of its offense.  Weis and KU were very close to beating Texas and Texas Tech last year, and also came within a TD of beating a pretty good Oklahoma State team (insert joke about moral victories here).  Deep down inside, K-State fans know that KU has capable athletes (Sims, Pierson, Heaps, McCay, Combs), and an offense that could be really good if given the right coaching.  K-State fans have now convinced themselves that the program is now just some well-oiled machine that will dominate everyone for the next decade, but I think you might be in for a rude awakening if that's your expectation.

I'll readily admit KU has capable athletes, but of the 5 you listed, only 2 have ever shown on the field they're capable.  Pierson and Sims are legitimately very good backs.  That other kid who transferred prior to last year was another very good back.  But in college, good running backs are a dime a dozen. I'm taking a wait and see approach with Heaps, McCay and Combs.

I don't obsess over KU.  I take interest in just how bad KU has been over the last few years because it's quickly approaching a historical status - if KU goes 0 fer again in conference this year, they tie turn of the century Baylor for the longest losing streak in Big 12 history.  The not having won a road conference game since W was in office is also interesting.  I hope K-State beats KU every year because they're our rival and it's fun to hate your rival and it's fun to beat your rival, especially when your rival is a great college basketball power house.   

Regarding KU: there will be years in the future where KU will rise up and have a mediocre year, and every once in a while, have a great year like '07, because that's just how things go.  I don't think those years are coming up for KU, because I think Weis is a loser at the college level, but who knows.

I wouldn't say K-State's program is some "well oil-machine," but it's about as strong as its ever been, even at the height of the "DOD."  Snyder won't be around forever, but I'm confident that Athletic Department will be much more conservative about its hire the next go around, and by that I mean, it's going to be somebody in the Snyder tree.  I'm convinced that's the only way games can be won at a Kansas school - the Snyder way.  So if it's Del, or whomever (save for Sean), they will have coached under Bill and hopefully will have learned enough about the way he's done it to transition K-State into the next era.

When Bill retires, the program will certainly be at a crossroads, but anyone afraid that things are going to permanently swing in the other direction is kidding themselves.  K-State will simply not accept football being poor, whereas KU has shown they will. K-State fans and the administration make football the head honcho in the AD, and for that reason alone, K-State football is here to stay.  Maybe not at an elite level year in and year out, but certainly at a "good level."

TLDR: KU will continue to be mediocre at best and K-State will be mediocre at worst because K-State takes football seriously and KU doesn't.

That's just not true.  Gill was fired after only two years.  KU fans won't accept poor football any more than any other fanbase.  The days of hoping that Terry Allen can succeed are over.  KU will fire Weis if he doesn't perform next year.  We will simply keep trying until we get it right.  The track issue at the stadium is currently being addressed and the investments for football are coming. 

As for K-State, you don't know what the future holds.  K-State fans thought you guys were on solid footing after Snyder won your last Big 12 title in '03, and within two years, after back-to-back losing seasons, Snyder was gone.  You can hope like hell that one of Snyder's guys picks right up where Bill left off, and you can hope like hell that K-State stays mediocre at worst, but nothing is certain in this day and age of college athletics.  Texas is finding this out the hard way right now.

I just love you guys!!! 

[ben ji]

Man, you know your program is bad when clone fans can look down on you and smile.

[PowercatPat]

Does Ben really think that higher recruiting ranking=more talent?

 

[Dugout DickStone]

Does Ben really think that higher recruiting ranking=more talent?

 

Does he think KSU fans, of all people, GAF?

[Lrrrrman]

After looking through the 2009 list, I'll take a number 92 class any year if that's how they turn out.