one year delayed, eh cap'n?

[sonofdaxjones]

Oh, and Angel is not now, and will likely never equal Jake or Denny IMO.

Really?

Look, I get your points about the situation, but Angel is comparable to Denis as a senior and Pullen as a SO. He didn't score quite as efficiently as either, but in every other important guard statistic he is equal or better. He was on pace to realistically be compared with Steve Henson for his tenure at K-State.

Look _fan, you can roll out all the statistics you want, and get all butthurt about my comments, buy my opinion remains, he's not the baller that Jake or Denny were.

He's the baller jake was at the same point in their careers from a production stand point.  Who Jake ended up being was not who he was as a soph.

He wouldn't have equaled Jr or Sr.  Jake, and I don't think he would have equaled Jr. or Sr. Denny either IMO.

[kso_FAN]

Angel wants to be closer to his family, always has. Been an issue with him since he enrolled. There are some things that K-State will never be able to offer that other places can in terms of location. Whatever you want K-State to do for Angel, it won't change that fact. But other people will benefit from having Angel closer to home.

Frank kind of talked about that yesterday on the Border Patrol.

[kougar24]

Oh, and Angel is not now, and will likely never equal Jake or Denny IMO.

Really?

Look, I get your points about the situation, but Angel is comparable to Denis as a senior and Pullen as a SO. He didn't score quite as efficiently as either, but in every other important guard statistic he is equal or better. He was on pace to realistically be compared with Steve Henson for his tenure at K-State.

Look _fan, you can roll out all the statistics you want, and get all butthurt about my comments, buy my opinion remains, he's not the baller that Jake or Denny were.

He's the baller jake was at the same point in their careers from a production stand point.  Who Jake ended up being was not who he was as a soph.

He wouldn't have equaled Jr or Sr.  Jake, and I don't think he would have equaled Jr. or Sr. Denny either IMO.

Well, by golly, if a guy doesn't equal Jacob Pullen by his senior year, we don't need 'im!

[sonofdaxjones]

Oh, and Angel is not now, and will likely never equal Jake or Denny IMO.

Really?

Look, I get your points about the situation, but Angel is comparable to Denis as a senior and Pullen as a SO. He didn't score quite as efficiently as either, but in every other important guard statistic he is equal or better. He was on pace to realistically be compared with Steve Henson for his tenure at K-State.

Look _fan, you can roll out all the statistics you want, and get all butthurt about my comments, buy my opinion remains, he's not the baller that Jake or Denny were.

He's the baller jake was at the same point in their careers from a production stand point.  Who Jake ended up being was not who he was as a soph.

He wouldn't have equaled Jr or Sr.  Jake, and I don't think he would have equaled Jr. or Sr. Denny either IMO.

Well, by golly, if a guy doesn't equal Jacob Pullen by his senior year, we don't need 'im!

That's not what I'm saying Kougs, but you and most are acting like he's not replaceable.    He doesn't want to be at K-State, and it has nothing to do with the coaching staff, administration or the school.   

[catzacker]

Oh, and Angel is not now, and will likely never equal Jake or Denny IMO.

Really?

Look, I get your points about the situation, but Angel is comparable to Denis as a senior and Pullen as a SO. He didn't score quite as efficiently as either, but in every other important guard statistic he is equal or better. He was on pace to realistically be compared with Steve Henson for his tenure at K-State.

Look _fan, you can roll out all the statistics you want, and get all butthurt about my comments, buy my opinion remains, he's not the baller that Jake or Denny were.

He's the baller jake was at the same point in their careers from a production stand point.  Who Jake ended up being was not who he was as a soph.

He wouldn't have equaled Jr or Sr.  Jake, and I don't think he would have equaled Jr. or Sr. Denny either IMO.

I guess I don't necessarily disagree that angel would have become our all time leading scorer, but I don't think that it's absurd or baseless to assume that given the comparative production so far, angel could have "equalled" jakes overall production.

[Dr Rick Daris]

"sophomore second team all big 12 and all league defense=slightly above average"

 

[kougar24]

Oh, and Angel is not now, and will likely never equal Jake or Denny IMO.

Really?

Look, I get your points about the situation, but Angel is comparable to Denis as a senior and Pullen as a SO. He didn't score quite as efficiently as either, but in every other important guard statistic he is equal or better. He was on pace to realistically be compared with Steve Henson for his tenure at K-State.

Look _fan, you can roll out all the statistics you want, and get all butthurt about my comments, buy my opinion remains, he's not the baller that Jake or Denny were.

He's the baller jake was at the same point in their careers from a production stand point.  Who Jake ended up being was not who he was as a soph.

He wouldn't have equaled Jr or Sr.  Jake, and I don't think he would have equaled Jr. or Sr. Denny either IMO.

Well, by golly, if a guy doesn't equal Jacob Pullen by his senior year, we don't need 'im!

That's not what I'm saying Kougs, but you and most are acting like he's not replaceable.    He doesn't want to be at K-State, and it has nothing to do with the coaching staff, administration or the school.   

He's not remotely replaceable with anyone currently on our roster, so...

[kso_FAN]

That's not what I'm saying Kougs, but you and most are acting like he's not replaceable.    He doesn't want to be at K-State, and it has nothing to do with the coaching staff, administration or the school.   

FWIW, I tend to agree more with this statement than others. Granted, this doesn't displace the responsibility on oscar for the program and winning, because its still 100% his. Its a lot tougher when you lose good players that still have eligibility remaining.

[Skipper44]

Oh, and Angel is not now, and will likely never equal Jake or Denny IMO.

Really?

Look, I get your points about the situation, but Angel is comparable to Denis as a senior and Pullen as a SO. He didn't score quite as efficiently as either, but in every other important guard statistic he is equal or better. He was on pace to realistically be compared with Steve Henson for his tenure at K-State.

Look _fan, you can roll out all the statistics you want, and get all butthurt about my comments, buy my opinion remains, he's not the baller that Jake or Denny were.

He's the baller jake was at the same point in their careers from a production stand point.  Who Jake ended up being was not who he was as a soph.

He wouldn't have equaled Jr or Sr.  Jake, and I don't think he would have equaled Jr. or Sr. Denny either IMO.

While he would never be the scorer Denny and Jake were, he was headed to be the starting pg and the primary playmaker on a team that went to the NCAAs for all of his 4 years joining Henson as the only other cat to do it.  They would of been 1a and 1b for best pg in school history in my opinion.

[CNS]

Losing Players Toughness is a good one, too.

I am low on this myself.

[EMAWmeister]

Everyone stfu with the angel vs jake stuff. We need to hear about "financial toughness".

[michigancat]

That's not what I'm saying Kougs, but you and most are acting like he's not replaceable.    He doesn't want to be at K-State, and it has nothing to do with the coaching staff, administration or the school.   

FWIW, I tend to agree more with this statement than others. Granted, this doesn't displace the responsibility on oscar for the program and winning, because its still 100% his.

Nothing we can do, Miami is giving his family cash.

[sonofdaxjones]

Oh, and Angel is not now, and will likely never equal Jake or Denny IMO.

Really?

Look, I get your points about the situation, but Angel is comparable to Denis as a senior and Pullen as a SO. He didn't score quite as efficiently as either, but in every other important guard statistic he is equal or better. He was on pace to realistically be compared with Steve Henson for his tenure at K-State.

Look _fan, you can roll out all the statistics you want, and get all butthurt about my comments, buy my opinion remains, he's not the baller that Jake or Denny were.

He's the baller jake was at the same point in their careers from a production stand point.  Who Jake ended up being was not who he was as a soph.

He wouldn't have equaled Jr or Sr.  Jake, and I don't think he would have equaled Jr. or Sr. Denny either IMO.

While he would never be the scorer Denny and Jake were, he was headed to be the starting pg and the primary playmaker on a team that went to the NCAAs for all of his 4 years joining Henson as the only other cat to do it.  They would of been 1a and 1b for best pg in school history in my opinion.

The only thing that kept Jake from going to the NCAA all 4 years was a bad schedule and bad coaching.

[Cartierfor3]

It was a long journey, but we've landed on the part of the thread where dax uses the "Frank was a bad coach" talking point.

[CNS]

Not Going To The NCAA's Toughness is another good one.

[steve dave]

Oh, and Angel is not now, and will likely never equal Jake or Denny IMO.

Really?

Look, I get your points about the situation, but Angel is comparable to Denis as a senior and Pullen as a SO. He didn't score quite as efficiently as either, but in every other important guard statistic he is equal or better. He was on pace to realistically be compared with Steve Henson for his tenure at K-State.

Look _fan, you can roll out all the statistics you want, and get all butthurt about my comments, buy my opinion remains, he's not the baller that Jake or Denny were.

He's the baller jake was at the same point in their careers from a production stand point.  Who Jake ended up being was not who he was as a soph.

He wouldn't have equaled Jr or Sr.  Jake, and I don't think he would have equaled Jr. or Sr. Denny either IMO.

While he would never be the scorer Denny and Jake were, he was headed to be the starting pg and the primary playmaker on a team that went to the NCAAs for all of his 4 years joining Henson as the only other cat to do it.  They would of been 1a and 1b for best pg in school history in my opinion.

The only thing that kept Jake from going to the NCAA all 4 years was a bad schedule and bad coaching.

bad coaching is pretty much the reason everyone who has ever not made the tourny has not made the tourny

[MakeItRain]

That's not what I'm saying Kougs, but you and most are acting like he's not replaceable.    He doesn't want to be at K-State, and it has nothing to do with the coaching staff, administration or the school.   

FWIW, I tend to agree more with this statement than others. Granted, this doesn't displace the responsibility on oscar for the program and winning, because its still 100% his. Its a lot tougher when you lose good players that still have eligibility remaining.

Using the word nothing in this instance is either an exaggeration or dishonesty.

Complely unrelated to the posts I just quoted but does the coaching staff or athletic department bear any responsibility for anything bad that has happened with Kansas State basketball the last 14 months? Every bit of negative news is met with some wild but vague unfounded rumor, none of which ever become confirmed. Seems weird, lots of coincidences and just bad luck I guess.

[CNS]

Bad Luck Toughness is another good one.

[sonofdaxjones]

Oh, and Angel is not now, and will likely never equal Jake or Denny IMO.

Really?

Look, I get your points about the situation, but Angel is comparable to Denis as a senior and Pullen as a SO. He didn't score quite as efficiently as either, but in every other important guard statistic he is equal or better. He was on pace to realistically be compared with Steve Henson for his tenure at K-State.

Look _fan, you can roll out all the statistics you want, and get all butthurt about my comments, buy my opinion remains, he's not the baller that Jake or Denny were.

He's the baller jake was at the same point in their careers from a production stand point.  Who Jake ended up being was not who he was as a soph.

He wouldn't have equaled Jr or Sr.  Jake, and I don't think he would have equaled Jr. or Sr. Denny either IMO.

While he would never be the scorer Denny and Jake were, he was headed to be the starting pg and the primary playmaker on a team that went to the NCAAs for all of his 4 years joining Henson as the only other cat to do it.  They would of been 1a and 1b for best pg in school history in my opinion.

The only thing that kept Jake from going to the NCAA all 4 years was a bad schedule and bad coaching.

bad coaching is pretty much the reason everyone who has ever not made the tourny has not made the tourny

I was simply answering in the context of not making the Tourney all 4 years. 


Oh, and while we're on statistics, Jake did share the backcourt with Denny, and they were the 3rd most prolific backcourt Duo in K-State Basketball history in only 2 years together.   

MIR you should stick to polling random college age kids, and could you share the  "people of influence" at K-State who would be satisfied with the NIT.

[sonofdaxjones]

That's not what I'm saying Kougs, but you and most are acting like he's not replaceable.    He doesn't want to be at K-State, and it has nothing to do with the coaching staff, administration or the school.   

FWIW, I tend to agree more with this statement than others. Granted, this doesn't displace the responsibility on oscar for the program and winning, because its still 100% his. Its a lot tougher when you lose good players that still have eligibility remaining.

Using the word nothing in this instance is either an exaggeration or dishonesty.

Complely unrelated to the posts I just quoted but does the coaching staff or athletic department bear any responsibility for anything bad that has happened with Kansas State basketball the last 14 months? Every bit of negative news is met with some wild but vague unfounded rumor, none of which ever become confirmed. Seems weird, lots of coincidences and just bad luck I guess.

. . . and you want to to talk about exaggeration??   

[puniraptor]

KITN toughness

[sonofdaxjones]

These events should be great cause for celebration for K-State fans.   Because the outcome will show that Weber is a really good coach who has found his place at K-State and knows exactly what he's doing.  Or, it will be the end of Weber and K-State can hire a new coach.

The MIR talking point of  (unnamed) "people of influence" being satisfied with the NIT has no standing in my comments.

[michigancat]

These events should be great cause for celebration for K-State fans.   Because the outcome will show that Weber is a really good coach who has found his place at K-State and knows exactly what he's doing.  Or, it will be the end of Weber and K-State can hire a new coach.

oh it could definitely be somewhere between the two.

Remember when everyone said Frank would do spectacularly well or flame out horribly? Yeah, he just did pretty good.

[CHONGS]

oscar Weber can never win an NCAA tournament game and still be coaching here 6 years from now (IMHO).  In fact he could probably make the NCAA 1 out of three years and still coach as long as he wants.  He will always need time to find "just the right pieces" for his specific system. It could be next year!

[CNS]

These events should be great cause for celebration for K-State fans.   Because the outcome will show that Weber is a really good coach who has found his place at K-State and knows exactly what he's doing.  Or, it will be the end of Weber and K-State can hire a new coach.

I don't think so.  I think plenty of ppl will be able to justify failure due to graduating important players(JO, Rod, Tay) and losing a player that was another coach's players (diaz & angel) and having to recruit last minute to fill some of those gaps. 

I could see some ppl actually giving oscar extra time for this scenario because a couple of hard circumstances out of his control caused his team to be extremely young and inexperienced.