Author Topic: one year delayed, eh cap'n?  (Read 221410 times)

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Offline Mr Bread

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #400 on: April 16, 2014, 12:25:04 PM »
Are there NCAA rules against tampering?

Seems like there must be. 
My prescience is fully engorged.  It throbs with righteous accuracy.  I am sated.

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #401 on: April 16, 2014, 12:25:58 PM »
Deb and Frank both had players transfer all the time and nothing like this ever happened with the same rules in place.

to be fair (and i'm not being argumentative), we don't know that for sure. just like we don't know for sure that angel wasn't told to stick around another year and we'd let him leave vs leave right now and you are on your own.

Offline Mr Bread

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #402 on: April 16, 2014, 12:26:30 PM »
Why not just say you have evidence that a school was tampering?

I would imagine that if you start @ing folks and you can't substantiate it you are going to get sued. 
My prescience is fully engorged.  It throbs with righteous accuracy.  I am sated.

Offline Skipper44

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #403 on: April 16, 2014, 12:26:59 PM »
I don't think comparing players transferring away from the coaching staff they committed to is the same as players leaving after the AD makes the choice to fire the HC. 

Hell, firing the HC is the most emphatic way an AD can say they don't like the direction of a program, why should the AD then care if/where the players from a failed program are going?

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #404 on: April 16, 2014, 12:27:52 PM »
I don't think comparing players transferring away from the coaching staff they committed to is the same as players leaving after the AD makes the choice to fire the HC. 

Hell, firing the HC is the most emphatic way an AD can say they don't like the direction of a program, why should the AD then care if/where the players from a failed program are going?

That's a good point.

Online Tobias

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #405 on: April 16, 2014, 12:28:05 PM »
seems like a marriage where the bread winning spouse gets to determine if the divorce is granted and not a third party

Offline Skipper44

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #406 on: April 16, 2014, 12:36:51 PM »
seems like a marriage where the bread winning spouse gets to determine if the divorce is granted and not a third party
more like a divorce where the one that filed wants to determine who the ex can or cannot marry

Offline Mr Bread

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #407 on: April 16, 2014, 12:38:35 PM »
I don't think comparing players transferring away from the coaching staff they committed to is the same as players leaving after the AD makes the choice to fire the HC. 

Hell, firing the HC is the most emphatic way an AD can say they don't like the direction of a program, why should the AD then care if/where the players from a failed program are going?

She's good at basketball right?  Mittie and Currie both have a personal financial and reputational interest in her staying to one degree or another.  I'd bet Currie gets bonuses if the women's team reaches certain performance goals.  Many athletic directors have deals like that or so the news tells me.  I guarantee Mittie does.  At the very least that looks good on the old resume to have winning teams on Currie's watch under hires he made.  I mean he fired a long time coach and now he needs his guy to succeed and the sooner the better of course.  Those are reasons to care. 

I mean what if say Angel and Rodney had left for oscar's first season and he didn't make the NCAAs and get a share of the Phillips, you think he might not have been extended to 2018-19 already?  You think Currie would be so proud of the hire to date?  Tampering or no, no coach or AD would have let them leave without an all out fight in that scenario and it shouldn't be that way. 
My prescience is fully engorged.  It throbs with righteous accuracy.  I am sated.

Online Tobias

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #408 on: April 16, 2014, 12:38:55 PM »
seems like a marriage where the bread winning spouse gets to determine if the divorce is granted and not a third party
more like a divorce where the one that filed wants to determine who the ex can or cannot marry

you mean the one who didn't file gets to determine?

Offline EMAWmeister

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #409 on: April 16, 2014, 12:42:38 PM »
John Currie tampered with Jeff Mittie when he hired him as the Women's basketball coach at KSU.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #410 on: April 16, 2014, 12:48:53 PM »
I don't think comparing players transferring away from the coaching staff they committed to is the same as players leaving after the AD makes the choice to fire the HC. 

Hell, firing the HC is the most emphatic way an AD can say they don't like the direction of a program, why should the AD then care if/where the players from a failed program are going?

She's good at basketball right?  Mittie and Currie both have a personal financial and reputational interest in her staying to one degree or another.  I'd bet Currie gets bonuses if the women's team reaches certain performance goals.  Many athletic directors have deals like that or so the news tells me.  I guarantee Mittie does.  At the very least that looks good on the old resume to have winning teams on Currie's watch under hires he made.  I mean he fired a long time coach and now he needs his guy to succeed and the sooner the better of course.  Those are reasons to care. 

I mean what if say Angel and Rodney had left for oscar's first season and he didn't make the NCAAs and get a share of the Phillips, you think he might not have been extended to 2018-19 already?  You think Currie would be so proud of the hire to date?  Tampering or no, no coach or AD would have let them leave without an all out fight in that scenario and it shouldn't be that way. 

Just curious, should players just be able to transfer whenever they want with no repercussions?

You seem to make a compelling case as to why programs do exactly what is going on.

Online Tobias

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #411 on: April 16, 2014, 12:50:50 PM »
i think the departing school should have to be the one to file an appeal if they feel there is tampering

Offline captaincrap

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #412 on: April 16, 2014, 01:10:04 PM »
I don't think comparing players transferring away from the coaching staff they committed to is the same as players leaving after the AD makes the choice to fire the HC. 

Hell, firing the HC is the most emphatic way an AD can say they don't like the direction of a program, why should the AD then care if/where the players from a failed program are going?

She's good at basketball right?  Mittie and Currie both have a personal financial and reputational interest in her staying to one degree or another.  I'd bet Currie gets bonuses if the women's team reaches certain performance goals.  Many athletic directors have deals like that or so the news tells me.  I guarantee Mittie does.  At the very least that looks good on the old resume to have winning teams on Currie's watch under hires he made.  I mean he fired a long time coach and now he needs his guy to succeed and the sooner the better of course.  Those are reasons to care. 

I mean what if say Angel and Rodney had left for oscar's first season and he didn't make the NCAAs and get a share of the Phillips, you think he might not have been extended to 2018-19 already?  You think Currie would be so proud of the hire to date?  Tampering or no, no coach or AD would have let them leave without an all out fight in that scenario and it shouldn't be that way.

I guess I don't understand what you have a problem with. Romero is leaving, that's not what a non-release of transfer is meant to affect. This isn't about trying to force her to stay, somehow place her in custody on campus. She's gone.

This non-release of transfer is very common in college athletics, and has been for years and years. The appeals process is the most important part of the policy, because it gives the school the ability to protect itself (tampering, academic standing of player, compliance, competitive disadvantage, all sorts of possible reasons). The appeal ultimately results in the player leaving, sometimes with stipulations. That's why the policy exists, and why most schools think it is wise to have the policy.

The major difference here is that Leti is being advised to handle her appeal through the media rather than in private in an effort to make K-State feel pressured.

Offline steve dave

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #413 on: April 16, 2014, 01:14:31 PM »
does K-State feel pressured?

Offline michigancat

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #414 on: April 16, 2014, 01:14:47 PM »
Just curious, should players just be able to transfer whenever they want with no repercussions?

Yes, they absolutely should be able to. Their scholarship can be dropped and their coach can leave without any repercussions, why shouldn't the players be able to leave whenever they want to? I don't even think they should have to sit out a year.

Offline Asteriskhead

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #415 on: April 16, 2014, 01:27:31 PM »
She's a rough ridin' person, not chattel you fucks.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #416 on: April 16, 2014, 01:52:34 PM »
She's a rough ridin' person, not chattel you fucks.

Who can do whatever she wants, but certain things that she wants may have repercussions or implications as to when or if she gets to do them.  You know, kind of like, oh, . . . . life.

Plus, I know Too Cool for Schoolers aren't always the sharpest tack in the box when it comes to these scenarios because they'd rather be idiotic while appearing edgy.   But CC has a great point that K-State has to consider things like academic standing etc. etc.  If a player leaves and is not in good academic standing than that directly impacts APR.   That may not be an issue here, but it has to be considered every single time these cases come up, amongst many things.




Offline MakeItRain

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #417 on: April 16, 2014, 02:17:03 PM »
This tampering garbage that Currie is leaking out there is white noise that needs to be ignored because at best its hypocrisy.

First of all I'd like to address Currie leaking why they are blocking Romero's transfer, and leave no doubt they are leaking it; mixed-nutz came out and said it before cc hinted at it. I don't care what anyone thinks about Leti and the transfer, what should be disturbing to everyone are the lengths this administration will go to in avoiding any negative consequences of the calculated actions they take. If she was tampered with it only became an issue when they fired her coach and hired Mitte. So then they take some very minor fire and they cya by leaking info about the student before the appeal hearing. I say this in all sincerity, if you don't pause at the way the administration has handled even some of this, I question you as a person because you clearly see these athletes as something less than human.

Now to the tampering and the hypocrisy. They won't release players who have been potentially tampered with but they accept players who have been tampered with. We have to check the time line but I think UMaine announcing the transfer of Edwards was almost simultaneous with the announcement of him coming here. It's nearly impossible to take a transfer these days without taking to the player before he or she is officially released. As meister pointed out we hired Mittie when he was under contract as well. Didn't Weber say he had to re-recruit the players when he took the job? Why didn't he just sit on his couch if the AD is so protective of players during a coaching change?

This is a bad deal no matter what happens or who is at fault. Our athletic department looks petty and inconsistent.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #418 on: April 16, 2014, 02:23:22 PM »
Good points, but your point about Edwards is way off. Edwards announced his transfer March 28th and didn't visit K-State until May 2nd. He committed May 4th after already taking visits to Creighton and Iowa State.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #419 on: April 16, 2014, 02:27:52 PM »
Good points, but your point about Edwards is way off. Edwards announced his transfer March 28th and didn't visit K-State until May 2nd. He committed May 4th after already taking visits to Creighton and Iowa State.

Thanks, was it Bolden then? I recall a transfer being announced really close to the time the release was announced, maybe even a Frank era player???

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #420 on: April 16, 2014, 02:33:15 PM »
Good points, but your point about Edwards is way off. Edwards announced his transfer March 28th and didn't visit K-State until May 2nd. He committed May 4th after already taking visits to Creighton and Iowa State.

Thanks, was it Bolden then? I recall a transfer being announced really close to the time the release was announced, maybe even a Frank era player???

The Bolden turnaround was quicker; April 30th transfer announce to May 18th commitment to K-State.

Offline captaincrap

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #421 on: April 16, 2014, 02:40:39 PM »
This tampering garbage that Currie is leaking out there is white noise that needs to be ignored because at best its hypocrisy.

First of all I'd like to address Currie leaking why they are blocking Romero's transfer, and leave no doubt they are leaking it; mixed-nutz came out and said it before cc hinted at it. I don't care what anyone thinks about Leti and the transfer, what should be disturbing to everyone are the lengths this administration will go to in avoiding any negative consequences of the calculated actions they take. If she was tampered with it only became an issue when they fired her coach and hired Mitte. So then they take some very minor fire and they cya by leaking info about the student before the appeal hearing. I say this in all sincerity, if you don't pause at the way the administration has handled even some of this, I question you as a person because you clearly see these athletes as something less than human.

Now to the tampering and the hypocrisy. They won't release players who have been potentially tampered with but they accept players who have been tampered with. We have to check the time line but I think UMaine announcing the transfer of Edwards was almost simultaneous with the announcement of him coming here. It's nearly impossible to take a transfer these days without taking to the player before he or she is officially released. As meister pointed out we hired Mittie when he was under contract as well. Didn't Weber say he had to re-recruit the players when he took the job? Why didn't he just sit on his couch if the AD is so protective of players during a coaching change?

This is a bad deal no matter what happens or who is at fault. Our athletic department looks petty and inconsistent.

Sorry, most of this is bullshit. K-State isn't avoiding negative consequences -- in case you've missed it, national media members like Jay Bilas have made negative tweets about K-State, and there's really no way to unring that bell. And K-State knows that. My guess is, they will make a statement that says she will transfer and be polite and take the high road, and take the momentary PR hit.

I'm not sure how else K-State could have handled this. As discussed earlier, K-State has had players transfer all the time, and you don't see much controversy about them. There's a big difference here, and it isn't in K-State's conduct -- it's the player.

The tampering isn't another school recruiting her, though that does happen all the time. In Leti's case you have the former staff using her as leverage, and convincing her that making K-State look like the big bad Establishment keeping the player down. I'm not sure that part of it is even that secret, even Fitz has got that part figured out, which should indicate how obvious it is.

And your last point, I repeat -- the non-release isn't about keeping players at the school, it is about making the school is protected from lots of possibilities when they leave.

Offline steve dave

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #422 on: April 16, 2014, 02:42:26 PM »
that rough rider jay bilas is talking bad about us?  :curse:

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #423 on: April 16, 2014, 02:43:19 PM »
The only reason most of you who are acting mad or upset about this,  is because it's Currie.

At some point in the past or at some point in the future, out of your mouth or keyboard, or in your mind you have or will say or think, "I don't give an eff about them, I only care about K-State."   You know it, I know it, we all know it.

So, spare us your faux disgust over this, and just admit you're only acting mad or upset because YOU think it's Currie driving all of this.

Godspeed John Currie and keep only looking out for the best interests of EMAW!!  Even if it means mountains of duplicity and/or hypocrisy!!





« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 02:53:05 PM by sonofdaxjones »

Offline catz

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Re: one year delayed, eh cap'n?
« Reply #424 on: April 16, 2014, 02:44:16 PM »
It'll only make K-State look bad and she'll still leave to the program that she wants to go to.  It also won't stop tampering in the future.  How is negative press for the KSU AD a deterrent to opposing programs tampering, particularly when they still get the player?  Unless Currie is going to get some cheaters outed and busted, then he just looks like an ineffectual little bitch.

This has been K-State policy for years and years, predating both UPKS and ADJC. It has been applied in numerous transfer cases, most of them you don't hear much about. The policy is mainly a way to protect the school from tampering and other situations -- the transfer is declined, the player appeals with a list of preferred schools to transfer to, the appeals board says yes or no to schools on the list, player leaves. That's how it goes.

In this case, someone in the ear of Leti recommended she contact members of the press to badmouth K-State. Suddenly, it's a "bad look for K-State". Yeah well no crap, because the player is saying it's a bad look.

K-State will probably make a statement once the appeals board rules, and will probably take the high road. But you can see how good Leti looks here just by reading Twitter comments of her teammates. And that's why siding with her without more info is probably a poor choice.

Was said person in her ear possibly close to KSU?