Josh Gray

[pissclams]

shocked to see ISU (not good team) be unable to overcome poor 3 pt shooting (again) and lose (again). 

To this point, it is an interesting game to see the value of shot selection, making 2PT shots, and FT rate and %.

ISU shot 51 shots. 12-28 on 2s (.429), 6-23 on 3s (.261) for an eFG% of .412. 42 points.
Tech shot 51 shots. 17-38 on 2s (.447), 3-13 on 3s (.231) for an eFG% of .422. 43 points.

Basically a wash.

ISU shot 15 FTs (FT rate of .294) and made 9 (.600). Tech shot 19 FTs (FT rate of .372) and made 13 (.684).

Tech had the OR% advantage (.212-.088) but ISU had the TO% advantage (.164-.212). Again, basically a wash.

The combo of FT rate and making them won Tech the game.

i was looking at these numbers earlier when i made my post in the B12 E & 4 Factors thread.  the biggest takeaway for me was that ISU essentially played at Tech's level for an entire 40 minutes.  that says a lot.

they're going to have games where they shoot lights out and look like world beaters, no doubt.  but their lack of 2 pt FG and rebounding will kill them in the end.


as it relates to gray/orris/angel, i think people need to realize that guys like gray/angel/pullen don't come along very often.  more often than not, your PG is going to develop in his 2nd into 3rd year.  the expectation that he should be on the floor contributing as a freshman is pretty shortsighted.

[MakeItRain]

I think the problem was oscar had some dumb sense of loyalty for Orris. I hope he looks at the situation now and sees that he screwed up by not going after Gray. I mean if Orris can't crack minutes at the 2 from Spradling and Tay, that's a really bad sign.

Isn't Orris a complete non shooter? wasn't he like the 3rd leading scorer on his high school team?

No he doesn't shoot at all, even during the scrimmage when he was on the floor for most of it he didn't look to shoot, not interested.

[sys]

shocked to see ISU (not good team) be unable to overcome poor 3 pt shooting (again) and lose (again). 

you listening sys?

why on earth would i be listening to pissclams?  he's a clown poster, bro.

[kougar24]

None of us have seen enough to Love/Hate Orris at this point IMO.

Uh, the hell we haven't.

[sonofdaxjones]

As has been noted, but seemingly needs to be noted again . . . is that the average Frankite gets a little nervous if a Freshman doesn't come in and show well right out of the gate.   Now, I have no idea if Orris is even capable of playing major conference D1 ball or not. 

But the average Frankite is honed on the fact that Freshman needed to come in and show something because of the massive peaks and valleys of Frank's recruiting, the regular Franking's because Frank made poor choices in recruiting . . . and are also jaded by Bob Huggins bringing in 2 of the top Freshman in the country, that Frank coached to a 4th place finish in conference and a weekend at the NCAA tourney.

no, we're saying a freshman needs to come in and play because we should be recruiting freshman who will come in and play. especially when another freshman who we could have had, is doing so.   it has nothing to do with Frank, but again, continue the "it's Frank's fault" crusade.

But the mentaility of needing Freshman to play is born from experience from the previous regime . . . don't lie to yourself zacker.

The Freshman that is playing, is playing at what was and probably still is the worst team in the Big 12, with woeful depth problems, that K-State does not have . . . and no, using current outcomes in conjunction with the way back machine is not applicable on any level in regards to what the staff was looking at on paper months ago.    Then you add the list of guards that K-State was targeting in the next class . . . a potential Franking of Orris becomes easier then the log jam that would have likely commenced.   Gray is shooting 38% from the floor, 21% from behind the arc, and has a negative turnover to assist ratio.   If you think that's moving Tay, Will, Shane and ArT off the block you're eff'd in the head.

 

[MakeItRain]

shocked to see ISU (not good team) be unable to overcome poor 3 pt shooting (again) and lose (again). 

you listening sys?

why on earth would i be listening to pissclams?  he's a clown poster, bro.

[kougar24]

Orris is shooting who-gives-a-eff-because-he's-only-playing-against-Washburn-and-doing-it-badly-even-then.

[Mr Bread]

Bread, what is Bruces history or stance on Franking kids?

There was never a legitimate franking at Illinois.  Some guys left the program early (e.g., Alex Legion and Rodney Alexander), but it never had a ran off kind of feel.  Just knew that they weren't going to play and didn't fit in oscar's offense so they left.  Both were transfers in to begin with so not really surpising.  Rich Semrau and CJ Jackson passed up fifth years of eligibilty, but they didn't play their first four so that made sense.  They still stayed on the bench for four years with no meaningful pt. 

oscar franked the hell out of that kid with the heart condition at K-State though, so you know maybe he changed. 

Kid: "I have a heart condition, but I can play with it.  I really want to stay on the team coach."
oscar: MOOSH

[EMAWesome]

None of us have seen enough to Love/Hate Orris at this point IMO.

Uh, the hell we haven't.

He has played 39 minutes of garbage time basketball. Your talent evaluation skills are remarkable.

[kougar24]

None of us have seen enough to Love/Hate Orris at this point IMO.

Uh, the hell we haven't.

He has played 39 minutes of garbage time basketball. Your talent evaluation skills are remarkable.

Tell me something I DON'T know.

[CNS]

Bread, what is Bruces history or stance on Franking kids?

There was never a legitimate franking at Illinois.  Some guys left the program early (e.g., Alex Legion and Rodney Alexander), but it never had a ran off kind of feel.  Just knew that they weren't going to play and didn't fit in oscar's offense so they left.  Both were transfers in to begin with so not really surpising.  Rich Semrau and CJ Jackson passed up fifth years of eligibilty, but they didn't play their first four so that made sense.  They still stayed on the bench for four years with no meaningful pt. 

oscar franked the hell out of that kid with the heart condition at K-State though, so you know maybe he changed. 

Kid: "I have a heart condition, but I can play with it.  I really want to stay on the team coach."
oscar: MOOSH

Welp, hope Orris gets the best sophomore bounce in the history of KSU.

[Rage Against the McKee]

shocked to see ISU (not good team) be unable to overcome poor 3 pt shooting (again) and lose (again). 

To this point, it is an interesting game to see the value of shot selection, making 2PT shots, and FT rate and %.

ISU shot 51 shots. 12-28 on 2s (.429), 6-23 on 3s (.261) for an eFG% of .412. 42 points.
Tech shot 51 shots. 17-38 on 2s (.447), 3-13 on 3s (.231) for an eFG% of .422. 43 points.

Basically a wash.

ISU shot 15 FTs (FT rate of .294) and made 9 (.600). Tech shot 19 FTs (FT rate of .372) and made 13 (.684).

Tech had the OR% advantage (.212-.088) but ISU had the TO% advantage (.164-.212). Again, basically a wash.

The combo of FT rate and making them won Tech the game.

I don't think it's really all that fair to call shot selection a wash when Tech's shot selection led to more free throws.

[catzacker]

Gray is averaging the same points as Tolbert for Tech.  Yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb and say he's better than Orris.

I guess, the question is, who would you rather have on your team:  Orris or Gray. 

Fight all you want about what his contribution level will be, but I'll take Gray.   

[kso_FAN]

I will say that Gray is an inefficient scorer and turns it over a lot, but not unexpected for a FR that is being relied on heavily. Still would be nice to have.

[michigancat]

the fact that we haven't seen Orris play given our guard situation means we've seen enough to know Orris is garbage.

[MakeItRain]

I will say that Gray is an inefficient scorer and turns it over a lot, but not unexpected for a FR that is being relied on heavily. Still would be nice to have.

His system and "supporting cast" contribute to his inefficiency and TO issues.

[kstate4life]

Because Orris is white and isn't a shooter makes me wish we had Gray instead.  We already have one too many white guards on the team.

[8manpick]

Because Orris is white and isn't a shooter makes me wish we had Gray instead.  We already have one too many white guards on the team.

Cool story, bro.

[kstate4life]

Because Orris is white and isn't a shooter makes me wish we had Gray instead.  We already have one too many white guards on the team.

Cool story, bro.

Just saying that maybe the reason we have Orris and not Gray is the same reason Will gets more minutes than Tay. 

[kso_FAN]

My hope for Orris is a poor man's Aaron Craft.

It looks like he might be a poor man's Aaron Schwartzendruber.

[Skipper44]

My hope for Orris is a poor man's Aaron Craft.

It looks like he might be a poor man's Aaron Schwartzendruber.

Druber could shoot, I am afraid you mean Josh Kimm

[kso_FAN]

My hope for Orris is a poor man's Aaron Craft.

It looks like he might be a poor man's Aaron Schwartzendruber.

Druber could shoot, I am afraid you mean Josh Kimm

Druber shot .286 from 3 his JR year. His numbers are really similar to Will's actually.

[Dr Rick Daris]

drubs also averaged like 35 points in highschool though so at least there was some history of him looking to do something with the ball other than looking for someone else to safely pass it to.

[sonofdaxjones]

Gray is averaging the same points as Tolbert for Tech.  Yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb and say he's better than Orris.

I guess, the question is, who would you rather have on your team:  Orris or Gray. 

Fight all you want about what his contribution level will be, but I'll take Gray.   

I don't disagree and I am not fighting . . . but I don't think I am going to far out on a limb by saying that Gray would have little if any impact this year at K-State. 

[SleepFighter]

Poor man's Adam Lopez.